By Alec Meer on November 6th, 2007 at 11:38 am.
I’m aware this is probably a bit like asking “does anyone here like being stabbed in the eyeball?”, but I’m going to do it anyway, as in my fondest, craziest imaginings this post gets a few thousand concurring comments, every publisher and developer in the games industry realises the error of their ways as a result and never does it again.
So: hands up who likes Quick-Time Events (QTEs)?
Anyone?
OK, let’s put it another way. Hands up who hates QTEs?
If you’re unfamiliar with the name, you will be with the concept. It’s a sort of interaction/cut-scene mash-up in which you’re thrown into a scenario that doesn’t quite fit the usual rules and animations of the game you’re playing. For instance, Big Axe Dude can chop enemies with his big axe if you press the left-mouse button, or headbutt enemies with his big head with the right-mouse button, and that’s what you’ll spend most of your time doing, because that’s what the game’s been built to support. But there isn’t a button for him to perform a backwards somersault off a cliff, land gracefully on a giant ogre’s ear, plunge the handle of his axe into it and eject the beast’s brain from its other lughole.
Either the game can bank on a non-interactive clip of the character performing this being cool enough that the player isn’t bothered that he’s not allowed to initiate this kind of awesomeness, or it can cheat. it does this by, again, playing a cutscene of such heroic endeavours, but intermittently flashes up specific instructions over it – press Up now, hammer Spacebar now. React too slowly or press the wrong button and you fail. Your usual control set is snatched away, often without warning, and you’re only permitted to press what’s shown on screen. Some guilty games allow some margin of error, but most dump you immediately back to the start of the QTE or to a Game Over screen if you miss even one.
The idea, it seems, is that being told exactly what to do, and being punished for not doing it with a start-over, somehow makes the player feel happily involved with the inflexible on-screen hi-jinks. It’s a bloody stupid idea if so, I reckon. What QTEs actually do is remind the player that they’re in a totally artificial situation with zero control over what they can do. Even if, elsewhen in the game, you’re Big Axe Dude wandering down an enclosed corridor full of identical goblins, you’ll still feel like you’re directing the show to an extent. Hit this goblin first or that one? Charge in, wait, skip to the left, what? In a QTE, you’re only allowed to do exactly what you’re told, which means really you’re not controlling the character at all. The character’s controlling you, almost. It’s Dragon’s Lair by any other name, recycling a 20-year-old binary mechanic to paper over the limitations and inherent repetition of a modern game, as a cheaper, easier alternative to creating a do-anything world in which the player could get up to that kind of stuff themselves.
They’ve become harrowingly common lately – the likes of Fahrenheit (aka Indigo Prophecy), Spider-Man 3 and Jericho are guilty of it, to name a few, and I know of at least one relatively high profile upcoming title that makes the same damn-fool mistake. It’s an especially common malaise for licensed titles, as it’s a simple way of showing a superheroic character doing something really superheroic, from pre-ordained camera angles to ensure it looks hugely cinematic, but in theory without totally abstracting the player from the events. So, I understand why games publishers, and the movie studios they presumably have to barter approval from to get the adaptation on the shelf, are partial to it. I suspect also that mega-selling titles (again, Spider-Man 3, and the God of War games on Playstation) that include them blind publishers to the fact that players may not like that facet of them.
Unfortunately, all a QTE actually does for me is make me aware of all the things I can’t do myself in the game. I didn’t mind so much when there were only a few of these things kicking around, but the regularity with which I seem to be encountering them of late is depressing. (To be clear – I’m talking about those QTEs where suddenly doing exactly what you’re told is the only option available to you for success, not where activating a specific prescripted sequence is just one of several possible methods to overcome your current obstacle).
OK, so once again:
Who likes Quick-Time Events?
And who hates Quick-Time Events?
Oh, if any developers want to chime in on why they feel this game mechanic is a positive thing, I’d be genuinely interested to hear the other side of the argument.
06/11/2007 at 11:54 Mr Wonderstuff says:
“one relatively high profile upcoming title that makes the same damn-fool mistake”
Hmmm…you wouldnt be thinking of Assassin’s Creed would you?
06/11/2007 at 11:59 Jebus says:
No it’s that Naughty Dog game – Drake thingy
06/11/2007 at 12:03 Bozzley says:
I don’t like them. Never have. As you’ve pointed out, one reason for using them is to enable the player’s character to perform a cool or unusual move they couldn’t usually do with the existing controls. But if you’re staring at the top of the screen for the split-second button prompt which lets you do the move in question, you can’t see the actual cool move. Which helps strip away things like immersion, suspension of disbelief, atmosphere, and things of that nature.
One solution is to have a context-sensitive “special move” button, which when pushed triggers the cool looking move from a different camera angle like QTEs do. It still offers a bit of eye candy, it’s started by a button press (helps keep the player involved, even though it’s a token gesture), and depending on context can either be as quick as a normal move, or offer a very brief respite from the usual game mechanic.
I now have a headache.
06/11/2007 at 12:06 Daniel Puzey says:
A QTE isn’t that different from other game mechanics, except that it’s a one-off combo. The failure criteria for these is often a little harsh, but it’s no different to any other repetitive “boss” gameplay mechanic. It’s also something that allows an above-average visual “reward”, since most people want to see their hero character doing ridiculous acrobatics – beyond what could be sensibly mapped to a control-pad.
In the case of God Of War (the only game you mentioned that I’ve played thoroughly), the boss QTEs are the only ones that you have to execute correctly. In this respect they’re no different to any other typical boss battle (most of which boil down to “repeat X sequence of moves until the boss dies”).
Pretty much everything else is killable with regular attacks, though the QTEs provide a quicker kill – and they’re still treated as enemy-specific combos that you can choose to execute whenever you like, against whichever foe you choose. In that way, they’re actually an improvement over regular gameplay: I can execute a “fatality” without having to memorize some obscure control combo.
I wouldn’t want to see them replace innovation in character control and combat but – as a step up from cutscenes or random button-mashing, I’m not complaining.
06/11/2007 at 12:19 Jon says:
I always thought Shenmue had it spot on with the QTE thing. Even the showy fighty bits were interesting to at least be a bit of a part of, and a lot of them were like ‘pay attention to a football’ or something daft like that.
If I had to choose between having them or not having them, I’d say nay, sirrah.
06/11/2007 at 12:19 nickski says:
as soon as the first one arrived on the jericho demo i switched it off and vowed NEVER to buy the game, a PC is not a console, and I hate being made to play as though i’m on a console, port or no. lazy LAZY developers. The lack of a quick save function has a similar effect, had to dial down the difficulty on MoH Airborne because of it, which means I’ve raced through the whole thing, no challenge, no fun!
06/11/2007 at 12:20 schizoslayer says:
I’m a games developer and I absolutely despise these things for all the reasons given in the main article.
Interactive Cutscenes are not videogames or even slightly related to the reasons people play videogames.
Interactive entertainment is about choice. Sometimes it’s an illusion of choice like in Half Life and Portal but at no point is it ever about pressing buttons because you’ve been told to and not pressing them will result in a designer coming around your house and slapping you in the face with his cock.
06/11/2007 at 12:29 Kieron Gillen says:
As another commentator notes, they worked okay in God of War for the actual minor baddies.
KG
06/11/2007 at 12:29 Babs says:
What really annoys me about these on PC is that I’ve seen games where thay haven’t bothered replacing the indicators from the console version (I think Tomb Raider Legends did this).
WHAT KEY IS THE FUCKING TRIANGLE? Oh, wait, now I’m dead.
06/11/2007 at 12:32 Brog says:
I’ve never encountered one of these. Maybe because I don’t have enough time to play every game so I only spend it on those that have been highly recommended to me.
06/11/2007 at 12:36 Sean Noonan says:
They’re an age old concept that should stay in the past.
Although a quaint idea for a time when cinematic maneuvers were not only limited by hardware but by player controls aswell, we’re in a time of near real time Toy Story (!!!) and dual analogue sticks… there’s no need for this repetetive nonesense any longer.
For those who disagree, I strongly urge you to play through the demo of Jericho as soon as possible…
06/11/2007 at 12:40 Alec Meer says:
Heh – guess I now can name three upcoming games that include it…
And yeah, agree on God of War’s already-in-the-fray mini-QTEs, because they’re more like a combo you instigate yourself than the game suddenly snatching your existing control set away.
06/11/2007 at 12:42 Jae Armstrong says:
They worked okay in Resi 4, I think. Although if I remember correctly you had to hit one, maybe two buttons in any given sequence.
Contrariwise, the parry attacks (do these count? :s) in Wind Waker were rather irritating, and the corresponding (entirely player controlled) moves in Twilight Princess were a hundred times as fun.
None of those examples are from the PC, however. In fact, I don’t think I’ve come across anything like it anywhere else, so the problem can’t be that widespread.
06/11/2007 at 12:43 AbyssUK says:
I don’t like them being thrown at me unexpectedly.. although some great games where just QTE.. like that driving game on the MegaCD it ruled!!
06/11/2007 at 12:44 Kieron Gillen says:
That was going to be my comment – you saying a fail/succeed by following a set row of keys is a bad thing also applies to fighting-game combos as well. Of course, the key difference – and why GoW’s minor QTE work as well – is that it’s an option for dealing with something rather than the ONLY option.
KG
06/11/2007 at 12:45 Incognito_gbg says:
QTE can be annoying, but I liked it in Fahrenheit. The QTE-sequences served their purpose by adding some more adrenaline-pumped scenes without having to rely on some mediocre fighting-scenes like those in Dreamfall.
There were perhaps a bit to much of it, but they were simple and effective.
06/11/2007 at 12:51 fluffy bunny says:
My pet peeve is the cut-scenes that re-write history. Say you’ve just spent the last five minutes killing a boss, using the standard gameplay mechanics and all, and when you’re done, you’re “rewarded” with a cut-scene of you doing the exact same thing, only in a more cinematic way.
Or cut-scenes that actually change what happened. I recently completed a certain game which I won’t name (don’t worry, none of you will have played it, so it won’t spoil anything). It’s a party-based thing, and the last battle had all my heroes and my army fighting against some huge demon an his army. I did it without any damage to any of my heroes, but when the end sequence showed the same battle, it didn’t just alter the way it was fought, it killed two of my heroes as well! Argh!
06/11/2007 at 12:52 Andrew says:
I think Fahrenheit got away with it by making sure they weren’t insta-fail like in other games. You had to fuck up quite royally before you’d die, most of the time.
I really wasn’t expecting them in Resi 4 so I died horribly the very first time one appeared.
06/11/2007 at 12:53 Alec Meer says:
(I’ve edited in a clarification about optional QTEs, as it’s an important distinction I should have mentioned originally).
06/11/2007 at 12:55 Kieron Gillen says:
Andrew: I dunno. I recall that roof-top sequence just being a string of insta-fails. I was playing it on XBox, and that final run – when you had to try and escape the helicopter – I simply couldn’t do due to my hands no longer being able to move the enormous heavy XBox Triggers due to playing the game all day. I even resorted to passing the controller to my GF to do that bit.
KG
06/11/2007 at 12:56 Andrew says:
The one bit I remember as being horrendous in Fahrenheit was the hallucinatory apartment-destruction sequence. I was playing on PC using the numpad and arrow keys for these bits, of course.
Oh, and I don’t actually like QTEs. No. But Fahrenheit’s worked well overall, I think. Better than many other games’ efforts.
06/11/2007 at 12:57 Feet says:
They’re pants. They were pants in Farenheit and they were pants in Tomb Raider Anniversary.
Pants.
Question is, are they pantserer than just watching a cut-scene?
06/11/2007 at 13:02 Dracko says:
QTEs are just FMV games all over again. Why we tolerate this, I haven’t a clue.
And God of War is highly over-rated, in that respect.
06/11/2007 at 13:07 Kieron Gillen says:
Feet makes a key point: Fahrenheit couldn’t have existed without QTE. While being included in – say – Jericho is one thing, this is simply a game which couldn’t existed in any way without them. And I kinda like Fahreneheit, y’know…
KG
06/11/2007 at 13:09 F'yth says:
Heh, the big axe dude killing the ogre thing reminded me very much of the first boss fight in Prince of Persia: Two Thrones. It wasn’t actually a bad memory either, as I loved the QTEs in that game. That being said, its the only game I’ve played (that I can think of), that uses QTEs.
I liked it because no matter how many times I attempted it, I’d enjoy watching (and executing) the sequence. Also, the quick killing mode was limited only to stealth kills and boss killing. You could play most of the game without making use of the system, but in my opinion it just makes the game so much more fun to play.
I really enjoyed being able to wall-run/leap to a more suitable position, with the intentions of dispatching the lot before they were able to call reinforcements. It gave me the ability to pull off awesome moves that I wouldn’t otherwise possibly be able to execute. I mean, even if some developer gave me the option to summersault and kill quickly outside of QTEs, I probably wouldn’t use them. Heck, Two Thrones had a fair bunch of attack moves/finisher moves, and yet I only used five or six pre-memorised moves over and over and over again.
Quite frankly I found the entire speed killing (as Two Thrones called it) experience to be made of pure awesome. Though when you failed, the monster would toss you to the ground and proceed with the killing. That being said, I can see how it would be awfully frustrating if the click spots aren’t implemented in an intuitive manner. However, in Two Thrones it was almost as though you could feel when you had to interact.
As a result – in my mind – the speed killing sequences became like an elegant dance of death. It’d be an overwhelming sense of achievement if pulled off flawlessly. Though it’d be capable of evoking a horrific sense of dissapointment; in the case of failure.
06/11/2007 at 13:14 Simon says:
And in shenmue, failing a QTE didn’t mean a restart, but that the sequence would play out along another path. Fail to hit the button in time to hit an attacker would simply mean you got hit, but then got turned around by that punch and then had the oppertunity to attack another character in a group fight, for instance.
06/11/2007 at 13:14 CrashT says:
Babs: Tomb Raider: Legend didn’t do that, it replaced the console buttons with the movement keys and prompted you with arrows.
06/11/2007 at 13:18 essell says:
“Interactive Cutscenes are not videogames or even slightly related to the reasons people play videogames.”
Bit of a generalisation there, no?
I like a good interactive cutscene (to use the incredibly vague, almost meaningless term), when they’re used and executed appropriately. Alec’s previous post about the start of CoD4 is a testiment to how they can be cool, interesting, and provoke strong reactions.
The QTE is just another tool that has potential to be used well, but unfortunately, often isn’t. Like Kieron points out (that someone else pointed out), God of War is good example of how they can be used well. I thought some of Fahrenheit’s use of them was good and interesting (although some of it obviously wasn’t). They were fun in Die Hard Arcade.
I suspect there are lots of mechanics in games – stuff that everyone here likes and takes for granted – that could technically be classed as QTE, only we don’t notice them. How many times in games do we have to press something specific within a certain timelimit, in order to succeed?
At the end of the day the QTE debate is usually based on a very narrow stereotype of what they actually are, or can be. To write them off completely is just to close yourself off from some potentially interesting ideas.
06/11/2007 at 13:21 Monkfish says:
I’ve loathed QTEs on a molecular level since the day I wasted my pocket money “playing” Dragon’s Lair.
06/11/2007 at 13:25 Jarmo says:
I bought the Dragon’s Lair on CD-ROM and persisted until I could finish the game without cheating, and it was fun. Maybe QTE is not so bad when it is your only option, the sole game mechanic. You don’t miss full control so much when you never had it.
I own Fahrenheit but haven’t yet gotten around to it, so I haven’t played other games with QTE. I can only speculate that abruptly taking free control away from the player and compounding this with sudden death certainly sounds like a fail.
06/11/2007 at 13:26 Simon says:
A nice illustration on how qte’s can be done well, at least the theory behind it as the actual implementation is less then stellar would be comparing the two manhunt games.
In the original manhunt you could defeat enemies by engaging them in a melee fight or by going for a stealth kill. The melee fight was pretty standard, the stealth kill would instantly dispatch an enemy in a cutscene. In manhunt 2 the cutscene has been replaced by a qte. Now there the qte is not a forced event, it’s simply another move in the players arsenal for the game, it is the player who chooses to use it instead of the other moves as it is appripriate to the situation. The same with the earlier mentioned special kills in the prince of persia games, or the things you can do to some of the smaller enemies in God of War. Or at a very basic level in Yakuza even.
06/11/2007 at 13:28 Jarmo says:
Monkfish, I would not have played Dragon’s Lair on a coin-operated arcade machine. There are limits to my masochism.
06/11/2007 at 13:29 CrashT says:
In fact now I think about it the QTE section in TRL almost exclusively involved you using the same keys to perform specific actions as you would in normal play, albeit during a “cut-scene” (Though it only works that way on the console; like I said all button presses are converted to movement directions for the PC version – even is using a controller).
Ala, you’d have a sequence where you needed to jump, duck, and then jump and use the grapple. A sequence of moves you’d perform often in the game itself and using exactly the same keys, but only now you’d be doing it from a more cinematic camera angle. As such those QTE sections were far less disruptive than the ones where you are asked to press an arbitrary key.
There’s really two types of QTE (Ignoring optional and required), and that’s the ones that use the same combination each time and those that use different combinations each time. The former allow some degree of mastery, especially if you are performing the same sequence several times, and therefore can actually feel like you’ve learn a particular skill; they are akin to learning specific combos in a fighting game. The latter just feel arbitrary and generally frustrating.
That said I don’t hate QTEs, I think they are generally unnecessary, but when used well ala GoW or even TRL they can actually feel like I’m doing something beyond simply hammering an attack button or watching a cutscene.
06/11/2007 at 13:32 Leo says:
Spider-Man 3 is the greatest game ever made.
06/11/2007 at 13:32 Alec Meer says:
While I know it’s an easy mark, I think I’m pretty clear on the kind of QTE I meant, to be honest. If it’s something that blends into the palette of the rest of the game, it’s unlikely to feel so jarring or obnoxious as the kind of situation I describe.
Fahrenheit’s interesting because, by a certain point you’re accustomed to QTEs driving most of the action. While my hands hurt doing it and I’d much rather a return to the early game’s puzzles, I pretty much knew that was what the game was now. So I didn’t scream in misery as much as I did in Jericho, which pops them up at entirely unexpected times, with no warning as to whether it’s yet another of its million cutscenes or a QTE. You’ve usually failed at one of its QTEs and had it restart on you before you’ve even quite realised it is a QTE.
06/11/2007 at 13:34 CrashT says:
Alec aren’t you just narrowing the list of “the type of QTEs you mean” down until it’s bascially Jericho? :p
06/11/2007 at 13:36 King Awesome says:
I loath QTE and cry a little inside everytime I see a new game using them.
Firstly, they reek of faddish. God of War is doing it so we all have to now. They are no longer new or interesting everyon by now must have played at least three games that use these. Secondly, as I’m tensing up waiting for button presses I can’t watch your expensive cutscene. Thirdly, I hate repeating the same thing over and over again.
They have become so commonplace that you never know when one will crop up. I was hoping Farenheit would be an interesting story driven adventure, which it was, until I was continually roused from my relaxed adventuring slump position (keeps the thinking juices flowing) to button mash my way furiously through another piece of game that would have been more satisfying as a thougtful think piece. I like that the game was experimenting with new ideas in general but I think that the QTE’s were a failure with me.
As noted above there are degrees of failure, Resident Evil 4 and God of War managed to make the QTE’s sparse, optional or simple enough that they were not so much of a burden. In both cases however I would have preferred another mechanic.
06/11/2007 at 13:37 Alec Meer says:
Oi. It’s just a noteworthy recent example of the kind of thing I mean. And just cos Fahreneit’s aren’t quite as horrible doesn’t mean they aren’t horrible.
06/11/2007 at 13:39 Xander says:
*Hands up.*
Yeah, I like them because they bring back fuzzy warm memories of Shenmue, the Best Console Game Ever.
As others have said above, Shenmue did QTEs right.
06/11/2007 at 13:40 essell says:
Alec: your last post points to Jericho’s mistake of radical inconsistency and shit design, rather than a inherent flaw with QTEs.
06/11/2007 at 13:51 Alec Meer says:
Yes it does, and that’s the kind of game I’m talking about. But I should have said “for instance, Jericho…” It’s about the context and the implementation, and Jericho’s far from alone in it.
Something like DDR or Guitar Hero, which is built entirely upon QTEs, is a different matter.
06/11/2007 at 13:51 King Awesome says:
…but isn’t exactly that the inherent flaw of QTEs ?
If they aren’t sudden and inconsistent (and a bit shit) they aren’t QTEs they are Guitar Hero.
06/11/2007 at 13:52 King Awesome says:
/me quietly leaves Alec’s mind.
06/11/2007 at 13:53 schizoslayer says:
To eleaborate slightly: QTEs are at their very worst when the game wants to play a cutscene and has arbitrarily taken away your normal controls and presented you with a series of button mashes or an instafail (Jericho I’m looking at you).
Re: Fighting game combos – The important distinction is choice. You have chosen to start the combo and and take up the challenge of completing that sequence of button presses. You haven’t had a developer come along, steal your controls and camera and forced you to execute a series of arbitrary button presses to continue the game at all in the name of something looking cool or cinematic.
Cool after all doesn’t directly equate to fun. Dragons Lair played start to end is cool to watch. It’s not fun to play though until you can do it perfectly without mistake.
To throw the floor open: Guitar Hero is that an entire game that is a QTE? Or is the important distinction here that missing a single note doesn’t automatically result in the developer cock slap?
06/11/2007 at 13:53 Kieron Gillen says:
Oh yeah! Just remembered the great exception to the QTE mechanism = nob.
QTE=Guitar Hero.
(I used to argue that Rhythm Action games weren’t actually games at all – i.e. They’re just rote copying of what a machine tells you rather than the complicated input/output mechanisms of “real” games. But that was me being a little deluded.)
KG
06/11/2007 at 13:54 Alec Meer says:
I worry we’re approaching a semantic debate as to whether the term ‘QTE’ should mean all timing-based do-or-fail challenges. As far as I’m concerned in this post, it doesn’t, but I can understand why some might feel I’m stereotyping.
06/11/2007 at 13:59 schizoslayer says:
I say we establish that this is a thread about Jericho styled “CockSlapQTEs” and move on.
06/11/2007 at 14:00 King Awesome says:
Yes a QTE is basically when a game, starts a cutscene and then without warning throws largely arbitary button prompts at you.
Some games that have this mechanic in have been good.
Very rarely, if ever, is it because of this mechanic that they are good. I would argue that in fact most good games are made worse by it and occasionally completely ruined.
Guitar Hero/Rock Band are completely awesome.
06/11/2007 at 14:07 Feet says:
Guitar Hero is a rhythm action game, and an excellently fun one at that. It doesn’t ever change the rules.
Quick Time, key word here, Events. A special set of circumstances where the developer has to change the damned rules that they set in the first place to progress the story while still “involving” the player.
There’s worth in defining it, so you know where to apply it and where not.
Also I don’t think Fahrenheit should have an excuse, all the “action” bits were QTE’s it’s true so in a sense they weren’t changing the rules, and I guess I can’t offer an alternative of how they could have involved the player and further the plot without them, considering the nature of the rest of the game. Still they were the worst parts.
I just really don’t like them. ¬__¬
06/11/2007 at 14:12 wiper says:
(I used to argue that Rhythm Action games weren’t actually games at all – i.e. They’re just rote copying of what a machine tells you rather than the complicated input/output mechanisms of “real” games. But that was me being a little deluded.)
Randomly had a conversation with someone last night where they explained that racing games and shmups are pretty much the same as rhythm action games – follow a set ‘course’ through to the end – with us concluding that all such games are actually pretty much the same thing as actual real-life dancing, where the pleasure comes in learning to do them ‘right’. Clearly, QTE’s belong to this style of play also (and possibly fighting games, to a certain extent).
06/11/2007 at 14:12 AbyssUK says:
Am I the only person in the world who think Guitar Hero isn’t all that ??? Why not actually pick up a real guitar.. I don’t get it.. yes Guitar Hero is easier than a real guitar.. but wouldn’t you rather play a real guitar.
Anyway back on topic I don’t quite understand what your on about anymore… basically you don’t like badly done QTE’s… well I don’t like badly done cakes. So we should ban cakes?
06/11/2007 at 14:13 wiper says:
Oh, if it wasn’t obvious – the bit in parentheses above was a quote from Kieron’s post, I just forgot the quotation marks.
06/11/2007 at 14:20 tom says:
YES, erm i mean NO, erm i mean RIGHT, erm, oh damn too late im dead :(
06/11/2007 at 14:24 Alec Meer says:
Abyss: to answer your first question, yes you are. For the second, the trouble is less the cake being bad and more that it’s hidden inside a pile of mashed potato and gravy.
06/11/2007 at 14:34 AZ says:
They work really really well in Resident Evil 4. and nothing else.
06/11/2007 at 14:38 Cradok says:
Abyss, I feel exactly the same. I played GH2 once at a friends’, then went right home and dug out my sister’s electric and am teaching myself how to play that.
06/11/2007 at 14:39 ripclaw says:
I hate them with a passion. Utterly rubbish. And whilst you are staring at stupid symbols randomly appearing, you are missing all the eye candy that these “events” are actually meant to show you. These were the parts that really pissed me of in God of War for example. Thats not game design. I dont even know what to call it.
06/11/2007 at 14:42 Mouj says:
As someone commented earlier, it did not bother me in Farenheit, it felt like it was well integrated within the game.
Or should i say that, the more you progressed into the game, the more silly did the game feel (to me), so it was not much of a shock in itself.
But i was pretty surprised in RE4, and actually did not bother to go past one of the bosses towards the end because it was all QTE, and despite me trying a couple times, it was just annoying.
Then again, i’m pretty sure many old games (old, like, Atari / Amiga games) used it pretty much, though i can’t remember any right now, for some reason.
All in all, i’d say i’m not that fond of this type of gameplay, but i think i can be well used. In other words, i wouldn’t mind it in a game that mixes gameplay and “mini games” and such; if it were the sole mechanism of a game, i’m pretty sure i would not be playing that particular game.
06/11/2007 at 14:44 Ed says:
I kind of liked them in Fahrenheit, I have to say. It suited the rest of the game. Thats the exception rather than the rule though.
I like FMVs too :)
06/11/2007 at 14:51 Bozzley says:
To my mind, putting QTE-like mechanisms in games is just like Ocean’s quicky platform games with the driving bits tacked on. They’re usually fuck all to do with the established main gameplay, and can prevent you from enjoying the main game as much as you may have without them.
I’m all for mixing gameplay mechanisms in a sensible manner to add to the experience, but justifying some animator’s toss by adding QTEs just rubs me up the wrong way.
Sorry, I’ve got a headache, and my office is boiling, and both my mouth and fingers are rambling incoherently. Sorry.
06/11/2007 at 14:59 Biffpow says:
As others have said and I will reiterate, QTE is lazy developing. Rather than create new moves or ways for you to play through a scene or defeat an enemy, the developers decided that THIS way is the only way they will create for you to advance past a certain point. That’s lazy.
I read reviews before I buy games, and I don’t buy games with QTE’s, plain and simple. Ruins the experience and, frankly, there are so many good games out there, I don’t need to waste my time with a developer who doesn’t care about my gaming experience enough to sustain the suspension of disbelief, as it were.
I sometimes wonder if these are created primarily to spice up the clips used in ads, so they can be labeled as “in game footage” or what have you.
06/11/2007 at 15:00 Nick says:
Most of them are utter shit. I didn’t mind the Resi evil 4 ones that much.. except when I wasn’t expecting one and had rested my wii controller(s) on my lap only to scramble for them to avoid being stabbed in the face. I failed.
06/11/2007 at 15:08 groovychainsaw says:
Fahrenheit was bad for me, whilst I could see what they were trying to do, I had to focus on the ‘Simon’ like match the colour bits so much that I actually didn’t see any of the ‘cool’ stuff that was intended for me. Some awesome scene where you run along walls etc. for me went something like: Red, left, blue, right, green, up, green, up….
Without the QTE icons, at least you can see the cool scene, but then, take them away from Fahrenheit and you are left with nothing really (and I did ultimately enjoy the ‘game’.)
06/11/2007 at 15:09 AbyssUK says:
“the trouble is less the cake being bad and more that it’s hidden inside a pile of mashed potato and gravy.”
Ah now I get where your coming from and understand.
I’d agree with you but I wouldn’t want these scenes just replaced with clips or animations, there are too many in games these days.. and I wouldn’t know what to replace them with, I believe the only way to do it would to make them more immersing… perhaps give choices ? (warning bad game mechanic idea coming)
i.e. from your cliff diving antics above, you get to choose left or right ear if you go on the right it works, choose the left you loose some health and by some other animation get knocked onto the right one somehow anyway. Then next choice..
Visual clues could be used so the user can have a good guess at which choice will lead to less damage or whatever i.e. left ear is bare.. right ear has a conveniently big easy to grab ear ring etc etc
But maybe this would be just as annoying, and add a lot of work to devs/designers, but am sure I’ve seen something similar been done in another game but I can’t remember its name..
06/11/2007 at 15:09 Kieron Gillen says:
Wiper: Except that’s not true at all, is it. If you make a wrong step in a Rhythm Action mode, the right *next* move is always the same whether or not you got it wrong or right. In an example you choose, if you make a wrong move in a driving game, your next move isn’t the “Continuing going around the bend” but rather “Correct steering”. In a Rhythm-action-like driving game, no matter how badly you fucked up that move, the next move would be “Continuing going around the bend”. While if you’re doing it “right” there may be no difference – but videogames are less about doing it right, but interested, unexpected things happening from doing it *wrong*.
And real dancing vs Rhythm action games, covering where you’re doing it wrong is half the fun, man. The difference is that in rhythm action games, there’s only one “right”, while in even the most restrictive schmups and racing games, there’s many.
My argument is wrong due to my definition of videogame being wrong, not because of the analysis of (Most) Rhythm-action games.
KG
06/11/2007 at 15:20 Ian Dorsch says:
I liked the QTEs in Fahrenheit better than the stealth sequences.
But yeah, the QTEs in Jericho are garbage.
06/11/2007 at 15:20 Kim says:
In my opinion: -
QTE’s are acceptable if it is clear they were intended to be apart of the game play from the start. Nicely integrated, in context, adding to the player’s fun experience and not randomly presented to the player when they least expect it. Otherwise, it’s a farce – a cheap attempt at making the player ‘feel cool’.
To be fair, any game play feature / element that’s clumsily used or latched on last minute, or latched on to make up for cuts during development — is crap. Especially if it’s the new fad and everyone wants a piece. ‘Cinematic’ games… wobbily cameras… realistic War-time /’dark’ FPS… overused Bloom and Normal mapping (we am made of plassstiicc! Uncanny Valley anyone?)… online-multiplay…
06/11/2007 at 15:34 wiper says:
“If you make a wrong step in a Rhythm Action mode, the right *next* move is always the same whether or not you got it wrong or right”
There are a couple of examples where that’s not quite true (Frequency and Amplitude, where a mistake means you have to rethink your route through the song), but yes, that is generally true. Especially since Freq. and Amp. clearly try to emulate racing games to some degree anyway, with their very literal implementation of a music ‘course’.
I should probably also have mentioned that the person discussing the ‘games as dancing’ concept had been drinking for most of the day.
(That being said: “but videogames are less about doing it right, but interested, unexpected things happening from doing it *wrong*” – is very dependant on the game, of course. As you’ve already stated, rhythm action games avoid this by being very limited, but the same can be said for fighting games, in that the effect of making a mistake is almost always an instant loss of health, before reseating both players on an equal playing field. And of course there are adventure games (which either have a ‘correct’ action or a pointless action; if there is a ‘wrong’ action, it’s almost always insta-death). And yet, ironically enough, the better QTE’s tend to avoid being so constrained, such as with Shenmue’s multi-tracked clips, where a wrong-action changed the flow of the scene, but wouldn’t instantly bump you off it. In those cases, getting things ‘wrong’ was actually quite good fun, as you wanted to see how the director had decided to make Ryo overcome the problems you’d caused him)
06/11/2007 at 15:37 Citizen Parker says:
Am I the only person that puts down the controller or leans back from the keyboard during every cutscene?
This instantly makes every QTE that occurs during a cutscene (Resident Evil 4, Jericho, Tomb Raider: Legend, etc) supremely annoying as I never make it back from my relaxation in time to do anything but die miserably.
06/11/2007 at 15:44 Andrew says:
I don’t do it with keyboard/mouse controls, but for gamepads, yes. I put them down.
It’s really disconcerting not only when a QTE thing kicks in, but if the pad has a rumble feature and suddenly my knee starts vibrating.
06/11/2007 at 15:45 Julio Nobrega says:
I hate them. Doesn’t require any skill. You can’t barely see what’s happening on the screen over the first times you play because you need to pay attention if any button to press will appear.
06/11/2007 at 15:51 King Awesome says:
No, you are not the only one I got into the habit of doing that from games like Metal Gear with inordinately long cutscenes. Several games though seem to be deliberately messing with your mind by havbing some relaxing cutscenes that you can sit back for and some QTE cutscenes that you absolutely can’t.
The worst of all is a long cutscene that seems normal until about five minutes in before suddenly presenting a button prompt.
06/11/2007 at 15:56 Jarmo says:
King Awesome: “having some relaxing cutscenes that you can sit back for and some QTE cutscenes that you absolutely can’t. … The worst of all is a long cutscene that seems normal until about five minutes in before suddenly presenting a button prompt.”
That could be called keeping the tension level up and the player excited. it could also be called deliberately bullying your customer. Bad developer, no Twinkie.
06/11/2007 at 16:10 etho says:
In Farenheit, they didn’t bother me really, just because they seemed to fit fairly well with the gameplay style, i.e. designed to look and feel like a film, and also because a lot of the QTE’s in that game gave you options and different paths you could take that would affect the course of the scene. So, while it didn’ really fel like you were controlling the character directly, it at least felt like you were controlling the flow of the scene.
And that is the only time I can think of that they have ever been fun. In Farenheit they kind of made sense. They have never made sense in pretty much any other game. Although, in Tomb Raider Legend, the death animations were often pretty funny, so I guess I’ll allow it there too.
06/11/2007 at 16:18 Frosty840 says:
I’m against them with a vote for the “I can’t watch the damned cutscene if you’re making me play Simon over the top of it” camp.
Also a vote for King Awesome’s “Hey, I was watching that!” camp, but they’re two sides of the same coin, really.
06/11/2007 at 16:41 Pidesco says:
I’ve only tried QTEs in Fahrenheit. They were awful, and just one more fault of the failed experiment that was ºF.
06/11/2007 at 16:45 Cruz says:
Has there been a strictly PC title that has employed this model? So far, I’ve only experience them on multi-platform titles, which leads me to believe that this is a console thing (is your PC snob radar going off?). I don’t mind the practice on a console, but I suspect that if I were to run into it on my PC, with it asking to bang my precious keys, I too would join the ranks of those who cannot stand it.
06/11/2007 at 16:49 unclebulgaria says:
Fyth / Simon both mention PoP: T2T. It irritates me immensely, doubly so as there is no indication that when facing multiple “potential quick kills”, the time window shrinks making the experience exponentially more difficult. Otherwise a feature implemented without flaw.
06/11/2007 at 16:51 John P (Katsumoto) says:
I absolutely loved Fahrenheit, and as people have been saying they worked well within the context of the game as a whole. Especially the bit where you first go uber! But, uh, I think the only other game that ive played that has them is Tomb Raider Legend. They only popped up infrequently so I can’t say it bothered me much, esp as the loading times were insignificant and it started again right back where you were if you messed up.
06/11/2007 at 16:55 Frans Coehoorn says:
QTE? I kinda liked the Fahrenheit QTE, those weren’t too hard actually. Now Jericho on the other hand… man I can’t even finish the FIRST event. That’s like, the second minute you’re playing. Mind you, on PC. Hopefully it’s better with a Xbox 360 controller, otherwise I’m stuck forever!
If Guitar Hero was QTE by the way, it’s the best damn QTE game ever. I can even do it with the guitar in my neck while jumping around naked (well, it’s possible)!
06/11/2007 at 17:17 The_B says:
Right, I know a lot of ground has been treaded upon in this discussion already, but to add my thoughts. Resident Evil’s weren’t the only ones that “worked” – Shenmue was earlier, and in a lot of respects also a good implimentation of them. However, my personal opinion on them – and I’m being honest here – is that I don’t see them as such a really bad thing per se.
I do however – and especially lately – see them as a lazy developer’s way out of certain situations they weren’t really able to program or create for, and their appearance in more and more games unnessceraily is becoming somewhat of a bandwaggon that every developer wants to jump on.
Like others, I think they’re better in some games rather than others, I’m thinking mainly thinking adventure games where they work pretty well as a form of “action” to the thinking puzzles. However, I don’t think they work when being shoehorned into other genres. They shouldn’t need to be in FPS. Or action adventures where the player is supposed to be really in control. Also like others, I really would like to see a better implimentation of the events if they have to be included, where failing doesn’t mean outright failure, but more you have to deal with the consequences of or your failure instead of “Do it again till you get it right, bitch.”
And maybe some pre-warning too would be nice.
06/11/2007 at 17:40 JP says:
I haven’t time to wade through all the comments here, so I hope this hasn’t been said better already:
QTEs are, with few exceptions, a crutch used by designers to say “Sorry, we didn’t design a game with a fun core verb set. So here, use these incredibly shallow special-case verbs and pretend the game is better for brief periods.”
The “inherent repetition of a modern game” has come about through laziness, not some unavoidable technological or design reality. Games have become too comfortable with saddling the player with busy-work, and some people even think that certain genres (RPGs) are by definition about busy-work.
As an example, I saw someone playing some Star Wars Episode 3 game in a store a few years back. You’re supposed to be Obi-Wan or something, and the game consisted of swiping at these pitiful little attack droids and breaking open crates with your lightsaber to get health. It might have been the first level, but that’s hardly an excuse.
To repeat, you’re supposed to be one of the most badass guys in your fictional universe, and the designers have you breaking crates and fighting rats.
Contrast with this episode of the animated Clone Wars series, where Mace Windu is practically Superman, leaping a hundred feet into the air while destroying hundreds of robots in incredibly inventive ways and taking down a gigantic ship that attacks by causing earthquakes.
My point is this: movies are handing games their ass with regard to delivering epic and satisfying action, when the opposite should be happening. Something is very wrong indeed. Games are so desperate for any little shortcut to the awesomeness of cinema, they forsake the awesomeness that’s easily within their grasp. Make the player Superman, give them an expressive and satisfying vocabulary, then put them up against Lex Luthor. Don’t make them break crates with a lightsaber.
QTEs are like having to have porn on in the background while you have sex with your girlfriend. Have some self-respect, dammit.
06/11/2007 at 18:25 Acosta says:
What if QTE had a limited tree of options instead of a fixed one, and if you could decide when you wanted one? I think there is an untapped potential there because playing Simon Says is pretty boring and even frustrating in middle of an action game, but, if a developer found a way to make that scenes more “interactive”, limited enough to make them “cinematic” but giving a better illusion the player is actually playing and not just following fixed instructions.
06/11/2007 at 18:52 malkav11 says:
I’m generally against them, but I’d honestly rather see them more like Jericho’s (if perhaps with more warning and better integration into the flow of the game) than God of War’s. Jericho’s are a pain in the ass, but at least they simply restart if you mess up. In God of War, at least for the boss fights (well…the first one, as that’s the only one I’ve managed to get to), you still HAVE to do them correctly, but if you mess up, it hurts you and then makes you fight the boss again for an extended period of time before you get another chance. Which is seriously lame. Lamer still is that that particular one is quite literally impossible for me. I thought at first that the game was bugged (apparently there is such a bug on some copies of the game), but no, tried multiple copies and still couldn’t do it at all. I just cannot mash the button it wants me to mash fast enough. Had to enlist a friend to do that part.
06/11/2007 at 19:12 Turin Turambar says:
The bad thing about QTE is that they are the cheap method of implementing something.
For example, if you want to have in your game a boxing sequence or a place where you have to climb a mountain or something like that, you have to design it, code it, make animations, controls, etc etc.
So some games use QTEs in those places. QTEs is all scripted, without control of the player, always using the same interface, controls, and animations. The player have to push some buttons randomly to give a sense of control and fake interactivity.
06/11/2007 at 19:14 Theory says:
There is such a thing as a good QTE. The only two games I’ve played with them has been Fahrenheit and Tomb Raider: Legend, and in both, when the key presses were tied properly to what’s happening onscreen, it worked very well.
Case in point: Fahrenheit’s office fight against the giant, imaginary dust mites (don’t ask). At the end the direction rings suddenly begin flashing randomly at a tremendous rate, and just as your brain realises it’s futile trying to keep up Lucas desperately begins pounding random buttons on a lift control panel with all of his fingers. It was a sublime moment of connection with the player character that still stands out for me.
06/11/2007 at 19:31 Phil says:
The one example of a QTE working perfectly, and without a hint of the bolt-on-for-artificial-tension-and-challenge, was in Okami.
Your encounters with with the fat, lacklustre Samurai, when he aims to slice through rocks and bamboo and you must use your godly paint brush to actually do the cutting by replicating his moves on the screen with a single brush stroke, was effectively a QTE, in that it limited interactivity for cinematic effect.
I suppose the difference was it used the brush’s preexisting and extremely fun play mechanic. Also, the climatic moment when he finally does the cutting himself without your assistant at conclusion of ten minute battle royale with a 100 foot high seven headed demon snake, is really quite touching, in a “Go forth, fat lacklustre Samurai, you’re all grown up” sorta way.
06/11/2007 at 20:38 Radiant says:
Dragon’s Lair has a lot to answer for.
Shenmui too.
06/11/2007 at 21:06 Garth says:
The first time you see a QTE or a Jumping Puzzle, in a game otherwise bereft of them in any large way, you know right where the designer ran out of ideas.
For QTE’s (in my own opinion), I think they are largely crap. It’s not inherent in the QTE itself, it’s the way they are often employed. Designers should think to themselves: “How is this making the game BETTER?” Pretty much never, if you ask me, but I’m sure it could be done.
06/11/2007 at 21:30 Some guy says:
“but the same can be said for fighting games, in that the effect of making a mistake is almost always an instant loss of health, before reseating both players on an equal playing field.”
The same can be said, but it would be very wrong. What about positioning or recovery time? I don’t even know where to begin. Not to pick on the owner of this quotation in particular, but if your understanding of a genre is comparitively shallow it’s much better not to use it as an example.
06/11/2007 at 22:06 Masked Dave says:
So the conclusion of this discussion, QTEs are a mixed bag which some people just hate, but really it depends on how they are implemented. (And I’m willing to bet that those people who hate them have only played the bad versions.)
The first time I came across them was Resident Evil 4 on the GameCube, I was completely not expecting them and would usually forget, relaxing to watch a cutscene take place when suddenly: WOAH! SHIT! A! A! A!
I loved those moments for just really ramping up the old adrenaline.
The way I’ve always seen them was like the rhythm action game of an action movie, if that makes sense.
06/11/2007 at 22:19 ryan in exile says:
They have their place.
I loved them in RE4, they kept indigo prophecy tense, and where usually fun (and failable without dire consequences) in shenmue.
However, I hated them in Jericho. Jericho is also a rubbish.
But the QTEs in Jericho are extra bad for being in The First Person it robs control from you in a much more literal manner.
06/11/2007 at 23:44 Tank says:
Qte, much like bullet time, hdr, and motion blur before it, is a tool that can heighten the expeirience in a game ten fold.
But like most good things, if used too much, or incorrectly, it falls flat on its arse, its too easy to look at jericho and dismiss qte, because the game is already hobbling before it uses that particular crutch, lets be honest, i free reach around from a hot lady as in ingame effect isnt going to make it a good game, qtes have little or nothing to do with that.
Games like god of war, tomb raider, and more importantly resident evil 4 have all shown how qte’s can be used concisely and effectively, but as with most new gaming “fad” tech, its overuse tends to bring shame on it, which doesnt seem fair at all.
07/11/2007 at 02:17 Frosty840 says:
I completely disagree that God of War implemented QTEs well.
Two points to that:
(1) I CAN’T WATCH THE DAMNED CUTSCENE IF I HAVE TO KEEP WATCHING FOR BUTTONS TO APPEAR. STOP THAT, YOU EVIL BASTARDS.
(2) These mini-QTEs that people seem to be saying worked well? I’m gonna go ahead and assume that those were the ones you pulled off against some of the standard enemies in order to make them easier.
I activated ONE of those ONCE, when the game was (in theory) explaining how to do them. And I didn’t do it right. And it never even activated again, and I kept going back into that room for nearly an hour, fighting and refighting the same damned creatures.
Broken. System.
07/11/2007 at 04:29 The Unshaven says:
This is fascinating for me, since I’m going to be chewing on QTEs as part of a PhD I’ve started on storytelling in New Media.
My summary so far boils down to: “Don’t do it. They suck.”
Particularly for Reason 1 cited by Frosty840. If you’re paying attention to the screen interface, you’re not paying attention to the contents of the screen – the world and the story.
Apparently it looks great to observers though.
When I was playing – or trying to play – Fahreinheit, I thought that this was a game I could imagine a movie theatre full of people playing (or suffering through.) Everyone gets a controller, and the game averages out how well we do at the little simon-says games or whatever and then moves us on to the next bit.
QTEs are bringing us to what game-journalism claimed as soon as CD-ROM drives became in-vogue: That games are ‘interactive cinema.’
07/11/2007 at 09:31 Barry says:
I haven’t had time to read the full comments, but I’ve seen a few mentions I wanted to make. I’m going to go ahead and take a seat in the largely unconditional no-to-QTE camp, although I do agree this is largely an issue of these kind of mechanics outside games where they aren’t the main format of interaction (ie Fahrenheit)
Two reasons, the first mentioned just above:
1/ I can’t watch what’s happening because I’m watching for the on-screen indicators so the complex award-winning animation of my character pantsing the unfortunate opponent is lost on me, and I’m not there to entertain anyone else in the room. (Bright red face and swearing is normally more amusing for by-standers anyway)
2/ The QTE input generally has little or no relation to the normal interface of the game, being an arbitrary timed memory test of your beloved control pad. As such, they might as well black over the screen and put up a message saying “Please enter this button sequence to prove you are worthy of playing the rest of this game”.
To elaborate – well, I’ve used a Playstation pad for 10 years alone and I’m more than familiar with the Xbox one but in honesty, if you were to call out a button sequence to me I would hesitate before hammering it in because I just don’t think in terms of button names or colours. I’d have to actually look at the pad to memorise that stuff, and funnily enough I rarely engage this device with my eyes.
Controls of a game are learned initially from that quick reference diagram but eventually you forget it’s X to reload in Halo 2 or B to bash someone on the nose because the brain just links muscle memory to a concious action. QTEs by-pass that kind of learning generally, even if they establish a kind of per-event control analogy – to use the Jericho demo QTE, representing each arm with a button , the feet with another and so on.
Basically, it severs the man/machine interface you’ve established and returns you to pressing buttons on a control pad.
07/11/2007 at 20:05 Jodi says:
I haven’t read all the comments, but I really felt that Shenmue got QTEs (mostly) right. Winning them wasn’t obligatory – you got sent down a different path if you failed them. And more to the point, each button press was consist. Punching or dodging in a QTE used the same button as punch or dodge in a normal fight. It’s just that you’re dodging on reaction rather than in a pre-determined way.
08/11/2007 at 14:52 Gobion says:
I really enjoyed them in Resident Evil 4, all except the silly one right at the beginning when you press ‘A’ to activate your binoculars which you otherwise cannot access.
I think they worked for me on the Wii because of the physicality.
Personally in general I am not a fan of them, but so much comes down to implementation. Like everything else they can be done in a lazy way, or an interesting way.
Going back in the day, I really enjoyed the cut scenes in both Privateer2 and Wing Commander Prophecy – they added something that most games have lost, though they are cut scenes, so slightly different to QTEs.
Though HL2 didn’t use them, I got very bored by the essentially linear nature of the challenges, though that is more to do with my general malaise with FPSs, even ones as good as HL2.
Ah… I ramble… ;)
08/11/2007 at 14:54 The_B says:
I really enjoyed them in Resident Evil 4, all except the silly one right at the beginning when you press ‘A’ to activate your binoculars which you otherwise cannot access.
That wasn’t really a QTE. Just a context sensitive key press.
17/03/2008 at 01:26 DigitaleWelten says:
I just mention Fahrenheit. It was my first experience wit QTE on a PC. I think I had the Prince or Persia doing QTE later.
Oh – QTE can be cool, like in Call of Duty 3 on PS3. They can be a pain in the ass too ;)
16/10/2008 at 15:56 PHeMoX says:
I think it’s a good thing actually. From an artistic point of view you can do a LOT more using QTE. Take for example God of War. It has QTE as well, but instead of limiting the experience, it makes it all look a ton or two cooler. I do agree that Fahrenheit used an overkill of QTE, but in the case of action games where you want to give the players that extra bit of action immersion I think it’s a great thing to do.
It will only feel limiting to the player when it’s made too difficult or if the gameplay is nothing but QTE which is a bad thing. Having QTE expands the options you have as design team to give players the best possible experience, there’s no way many of those scenes could have been done with normal gameplay only. It just wouldn’t be worth the effort for the players.