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	<title>Comments on: Powered By At Least 70 Hamsters</title>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15910</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>When you have a large monitor (I myself have a largeish 24&quot; with a native res of 1920x1200) you can&#039;t play at these lower resolutions without sacrificing massive amounts of fidelity. 

Especially not a 4:3 resolution like 1280x1024 - have you any idea how ugly games look when they&#039;re being stretched into 16:10 aspect ratio from 4:3?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you have a large monitor (I myself have a largeish 24&#8243; with a native res of 1920&#215;1200) you can&#8217;t play at these lower resolutions without sacrificing massive amounts of fidelity. </p>
<p>Especially not a 4:3 resolution like 1280&#215;1024 &#8211; have you any idea how ugly games look when they&#8217;re being stretched into 16:10 aspect ratio from 4:3?
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		<title>By: Irish Al</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15792</link>
		<dc:creator>Irish Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=841#comment-15792</guid>
		<description>Yeah - I get the distinct impression that it&#039;s people trying to play it at stupid resolutions. As long as it shifts at 1280 x 1024 what more do you need?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah &#8211; I get the distinct impression that it&#8217;s people trying to play it at stupid resolutions. As long as it shifts at 1280 x 1024 what more do you need?
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		<title>By: Skylance</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15755</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 02:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=841#comment-15755</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Crysis is really *that* much of a resource hog... 

I&#039;ve got a mildly overclocked Core Duo 6420 at 2.6GHz, one 8800GT, and 2 gigs of PC-800 RAM... Not really the most impressive system in the world, but I still run Crysis at an average of 40fps with everything on &quot;high&quot; and my resolution is at 1680x1050. Even on the second highest setting it&#039;s still (technically, at least) the best looking title I&#039;ve ever seen.

I don&#039;t use Vista, so I can&#039;t vouch for the Very High settings, exactly, but I&#039;ve tried the DX9 hack and I still get a solid 20-25 fps even with shenanigans going on-- I really don&#039;t think it would take much more to kick it up into the 30fps range.

Point is, people bitch about how nasty Crysis&#039; requirements are, but the truth is that they&#039;re really not that bad. If you max everything out, play at 2500x whatever resolution, turn on AA and AF as high as they can go, well, sure you&#039;re gonna take a nasty framerate hit, maybe, probably even into the unplayable range. Since when has that not been the case with PC Games? I never expect to be able to ratchet a games settings to the hilt unless I&#039;ve got hardware a least a year newer than a given game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Crysis is really *that* much of a resource hog&#8230; </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got a mildly overclocked Core Duo 6420 at 2.6GHz, one 8800GT, and 2 gigs of PC-800 RAM&#8230; Not really the most impressive system in the world, but I still run Crysis at an average of 40fps with everything on &#8220;high&#8221; and my resolution is at 1680&#215;1050. Even on the second highest setting it&#8217;s still (technically, at least) the best looking title I&#8217;ve ever seen.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t use Vista, so I can&#8217;t vouch for the Very High settings, exactly, but I&#8217;ve tried the DX9 hack and I still get a solid 20-25 fps even with shenanigans going on&#8211; I really don&#8217;t think it would take much more to kick it up into the 30fps range.</p>
<p>Point is, people bitch about how nasty Crysis&#8217; requirements are, but the truth is that they&#8217;re really not that bad. If you max everything out, play at 2500x whatever resolution, turn on AA and AF as high as they can go, well, sure you&#8217;re gonna take a nasty framerate hit, maybe, probably even into the unplayable range. Since when has that not been the case with PC Games? I never expect to be able to ratchet a games settings to the hilt unless I&#8217;ve got hardware a least a year newer than a given game.
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		<title>By: bobince</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15690</link>
		<dc:creator>bobince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=841#comment-15690</guid>
		<description>Ugh, what an ugly blighter. Maybe I&#039;m just getting old but I can&#039;t summon any enthusiasm for the way the GPU market is these days. More cores! More cards! More heatsinks! Bigger fans! More power connectors! Shovel more puppies into the furnace! If I give her any more she&#039;ll blow!

SLI and uber high-end GPUs are a noisy power-hungry irrelevance for the vast majority of PC gaming. Let&#039;s have some real innovation please. It&#039;ll be interesting to see what happens when ATI/AMD start putting CPUs and GPUs on the same core, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, what an ugly blighter. Maybe I&#8217;m just getting old but I can&#8217;t summon any enthusiasm for the way the GPU market is these days. More cores! More cards! More heatsinks! Bigger fans! More power connectors! Shovel more puppies into the furnace! If I give her any more she&#8217;ll blow!</p>
<p>SLI and uber high-end GPUs are a noisy power-hungry irrelevance for the vast majority of PC gaming. Let&#8217;s have some real innovation please. It&#8217;ll be interesting to see what happens when ATI/AMD start putting CPUs and GPUs on the same core, for example.
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		<title>By: John O'Kane</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15687</link>
		<dc:creator>John O'Kane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=841#comment-15687</guid>
		<description>The move to two cards on one is an interesting, but not sustainable move. I remember 3dfx were doing similar maneuvers shortly before they went under. The whole point of GPU&#039;s is that they are stream processors that parallelise (instruction, threaded, pipelined) the graphics pipeline as much as possible to get speed ups. 

Think of it as a huge 600 stage assembly line, with people doing a different job at each stage processing incoming materials. While it may take 600 units of time for a piece of data/material to get rendered/made, on average 600 units of work have been done each time a stage is processed. That means the bandwidth is high, this is what makes the cards better than a typical cpu, which to keep in with the analogy do just a few stages of work in their assembly line. Actually they&#039;ve reduced it recently with the move to multi-core architecture, hence the drop from 4 ghz to 2 ghz, the pipelining and other implicit parallelizing tricks making the 4 ghz seem faster even though it was clocking more at the 2 ghz range. Apologies to the pedantic if I&#039;ve over simplified or exaggerated for effect.

In this case the two cards just agree that they&#039;ll share the job, scan-line by scan-line for your display resolution. They don&#039;t work together and put extra strain on the cpu (driver) to feed them. That&#039;s a fairly brute force, power consuming, hungry approach. To refer to the assembly line from before, we&#039;ve basically got two assembly pipelines, and they need two factories worth of materials. Not very elegant at all. Due to power constraints there are hard limits on this for now. Even if there weren&#039;t, managing the data to get graphics unit on the card from the cpu (a full copy of the scene geometry, textures etc for each unit) is going to be a bottle neck or at least synchronisation issue. Which is why this isn&#039;t done in the first place.

I&#039;d expect future, sustainable speed ups to come from new techniques like unified shaders (yeah, I know that&#039;s been done, hence why I said &quot;like&quot;), advanced culling systems, more pipelining (assembly stages), power reduction, smaller circuit boards etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The move to two cards on one is an interesting, but not sustainable move. I remember 3dfx were doing similar maneuvers shortly before they went under. The whole point of GPU&#8217;s is that they are stream processors that parallelise (instruction, threaded, pipelined) the graphics pipeline as much as possible to get speed ups. </p>
<p>Think of it as a huge 600 stage assembly line, with people doing a different job at each stage processing incoming materials. While it may take 600 units of time for a piece of data/material to get rendered/made, on average 600 units of work have been done each time a stage is processed. That means the bandwidth is high, this is what makes the cards better than a typical cpu, which to keep in with the analogy do just a few stages of work in their assembly line. Actually they&#8217;ve reduced it recently with the move to multi-core architecture, hence the drop from 4 ghz to 2 ghz, the pipelining and other implicit parallelizing tricks making the 4 ghz seem faster even though it was clocking more at the 2 ghz range. Apologies to the pedantic if I&#8217;ve over simplified or exaggerated for effect.</p>
<p>In this case the two cards just agree that they&#8217;ll share the job, scan-line by scan-line for your display resolution. They don&#8217;t work together and put extra strain on the cpu (driver) to feed them. That&#8217;s a fairly brute force, power consuming, hungry approach. To refer to the assembly line from before, we&#8217;ve basically got two assembly pipelines, and they need two factories worth of materials. Not very elegant at all. Due to power constraints there are hard limits on this for now. Even if there weren&#8217;t, managing the data to get graphics unit on the card from the cpu (a full copy of the scene geometry, textures etc for each unit) is going to be a bottle neck or at least synchronisation issue. Which is why this isn&#8217;t done in the first place.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d expect future, sustainable speed ups to come from new techniques like unified shaders (yeah, I know that&#8217;s been done, hence why I said &#8220;like&#8221;), advanced culling systems, more pipelining (assembly stages), power reduction, smaller circuit boards etc.
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		<title>By: po</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15667</link>
		<dc:creator>po</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Unlikely these days.  Most chip manufacturers seem to have wised up to unlocking/reflashing.  It&#039;s even possible that some of the disabled shader cores are defective (fully working core goes into GTS, one with bad shader unit becomes GT).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unlikely these days.  Most chip manufacturers seem to have wised up to unlocking/reflashing.  It&#8217;s even possible that some of the disabled shader cores are defective (fully working core goes into GTS, one with bad shader unit becomes GT).
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15661</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>8800GTS 512 is the same core as the GT, but with faster clocks and extra shaders which are (oddly) disabled. I wonder if there&#039;s a way to unlock them. :/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8800GTS 512 is the same core as the GT, but with faster clocks and extra shaders which are (oddly) disabled. I wonder if there&#8217;s a way to unlock them. :/
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		<title>By: po</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15655</link>
		<dc:creator>po</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nice to see they&#039;ve finally added the Ultra and GT, but the GTS 512 is still missing.  I&#039;m guessing from the OC GT score that the GTS which has been overclocked to 800 core 2200 memory with the stock cooler will be better than an Ultra (which has next to no OC potential).  I&#039;m going for GTS 512s in SLI with water cooling :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to see they&#8217;ve finally added the Ultra and GT, but the GTS 512 is still missing.  I&#8217;m guessing from the OC GT score that the GTS which has been overclocked to 800 core 2200 memory with the stock cooler will be better than an Ultra (which has next to no OC potential).  I&#8217;m going for GTS 512s in SLI with water cooling :D
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		<title>By: Monkfish</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15646</link>
		<dc:creator>Monkfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=841#comment-15646</guid>
		<description>To be fair, until ATI/AMD decided to change their naming system recently, they were just as bad as Nvidia in tacking  suffixes to the card&#039;s name.  

For example the X1950, used as an example above, came in XT, XTX, Pro and GT flavours, as well as different memory configurations.  They were certainly fond of the letter &quot;X&quot;, that&#039;s for sure. :D

If there&#039;s anyone trying to decide which card to buy, you could do a lot worse than visit &lt;a href=&quot;http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&amp;model1=853&amp;model2=1060&amp;chart=275#&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tom&#039;s Hardware VGA Charts&lt;/a&gt; (they have one for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SLI&lt;/a&gt;, too).  It&#039;s a great way to get an at-a-glance idea of where each model fits performance-wise, and eases the confusion brought about by the cryptic naming conventions.

Anyway, I won&#039;t be trading in my solitary 8800GTS for the new GX2.  I&#039;ll hang back &#039;til the autumn, and see what either ATI or Nvidia cook up.  I&#039;ll grab whatever&#039;s best - there&#039;s no brand loyalty here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, until ATI/AMD decided to change their naming system recently, they were just as bad as Nvidia in tacking  suffixes to the card&#8217;s name.  </p>
<p>For example the X1950, used as an example above, came in XT, XTX, Pro and GT flavours, as well as different memory configurations.  They were certainly fond of the letter &#8220;X&#8221;, that&#8217;s for sure. :D</p>
<p>If there&#8217;s anyone trying to decide which card to buy, you could do a lot worse than visit <a href="http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&amp;model1=853&amp;model2=1060&amp;chart=275#" rel="nofollow">Tom&#8217;s Hardware VGA Charts</a> (they have one for <a href="http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html" rel="nofollow">SLI</a>, too).  It&#8217;s a great way to get an at-a-glance idea of where each model fits performance-wise, and eases the confusion brought about by the cryptic naming conventions.</p>
<p>Anyway, I won&#8217;t be trading in my solitary 8800GTS for the new GX2.  I&#8217;ll hang back &#8217;til the autumn, and see what either ATI or Nvidia cook up.  I&#8217;ll grab whatever&#8217;s best &#8211; there&#8217;s no brand loyalty here.
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15640</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh and I just had a thought; there are so many 8800 cards now. I can think of these (in order of performance-ish):

8800 Ultra
8800GTX
8800GTS 512
8800GT 512
8800GT 256
8800GTS 640
8800GTS 320
8800GS

And there&#039;s also a mobile 8800M GTX, though I don&#039;t really know where that would fit in the table. There&#039;s no way it&#039;s as powerful as a full desktop GTX. Also I&#039;ve not included all the factory overclocked cards which could add to the confusion.

But still, any normal consumer (i.e someone who doesn&#039;t obsessively follow the development of these products like myself) is likely to be mighty confused by this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and I just had a thought; there are so many 8800 cards now. I can think of these (in order of performance-ish):</p>
<p>8800 Ultra<br />
8800GTX<br />
8800GTS 512<br />
8800GT 512<br />
8800GT 256<br />
8800GTS 640<br />
8800GTS 320<br />
8800GS</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s also a mobile 8800M GTX, though I don&#8217;t really know where that would fit in the table. There&#8217;s no way it&#8217;s as powerful as a full desktop GTX. Also I&#8217;ve not included all the factory overclocked cards which could add to the confusion.</p>
<p>But still, any normal consumer (i.e someone who doesn&#8217;t obsessively follow the development of these products like myself) is likely to be mighty confused by this.
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15637</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Exactly right, Optimaximal. 

Say you have a Radeon X1950. 

It&#039;s from the X1000 series, and it&#039;s a very high end card in that series (950). 

nVIDIA do the same - an 8500 is a mid-range 8-series card, so your idea that bigger numbers = better card idea is flawed, since a 7900 will beat the utter crap out of the 8500.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly right, Optimaximal. </p>
<p>Say you have a Radeon X1950. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s from the X1000 series, and it&#8217;s a very high end card in that series (950). </p>
<p>nVIDIA do the same &#8211; an 8500 is a mid-range 8-series card, so your idea that bigger numbers = better card idea is flawed, since a 7900 will beat the utter crap out of the 8500.
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		<title>By: Optimaximal</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/04/powered-by-at-least-70-hamsters/#comment-15618</link>
		<dc:creator>Optimaximal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>malkav, i&#039;d actually say Nvidia aren&#039;t comprehensible at all.  They are still sticking with this stupid &#039;numbers &amp; letters&#039; system that means absolutely nothing because the company just sticks whatever numbers it wants on the chipset.  Not to mention their next gen cards being named after a rival chipset that royally pasted their 5th gen offering.

AMD just started doing a new system that actually makes sense.  the first 2 digits denote generation whereas the second two show the position of that card in the lineup.  No XT, no GTS, no AlphaPlus3MegaShinRyuKenBetaZetaMega Edition...

That&#039;s it!!! NVidia are copying Capcom!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>malkav, i&#8217;d actually say Nvidia aren&#8217;t comprehensible at all.  They are still sticking with this stupid &#8216;numbers &amp; letters&#8217; system that means absolutely nothing because the company just sticks whatever numbers it wants on the chipset.  Not to mention their next gen cards being named after a rival chipset that royally pasted their 5th gen offering.</p>
<p>AMD just started doing a new system that actually makes sense.  the first 2 digits denote generation whereas the second two show the position of that card in the lineup.  No XT, no GTS, no AlphaPlus3MegaShinRyuKenBetaZetaMega Edition&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s it!!! NVidia are copying Capcom!
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