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	<title>Comments on: The Sunday Papers</title>
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		<title>By: Rock, Paper, Shotgun: Punk Rock, Like Talking Heads &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Sunday Papers</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-17878</link>
		<dc:creator>Rock, Paper, Shotgun: Punk Rock, Like Talking Heads &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Sunday Papers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-17878</guid>
		<description>[...] two Sundays in a row. It&#8217;s a regular now. Welcome to another lazy weekend afternoon, and our chance to sit back and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] two Sundays in a row. It&#8217;s a regular now. Welcome to another lazy weekend afternoon, and our chance to sit back and [...]
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		<title>By: matte_k</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-17029</link>
		<dc:creator>matte_k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-17029</guid>
		<description>Liking the ideas for the Brotherhood and Outcasts in Fallout 3, better to have two factions that have a bit of history together that you as the player can build on/take advantage of tha one faction that essentially replicates itself from the first two games. Time has moved on, so have they.

Also, Kieron- you crazy bugger, I watched that Strawberry Switchblade vid you posted link to and it drove me nuts, it was like Siouxsie and the Banshees doing Playschool... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liking the ideas for the Brotherhood and Outcasts in Fallout 3, better to have two factions that have a bit of history together that you as the player can build on/take advantage of tha one faction that essentially replicates itself from the first two games. Time has moved on, so have they.</p>
<p>Also, Kieron- you crazy bugger, I watched that Strawberry Switchblade vid you posted link to and it drove me nuts, it was like Siouxsie and the Banshees doing Playschool&#8230; :)
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		<title>By: kadayi</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-17014</link>
		<dc:creator>kadayi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-17014</guid>
		<description>&#039;Kadayi: Actually, the interview with Spector which goes up in a few weeks starts talking about the need to centralise some stuff in Game Design… but it’s terminology rather than approach. I think you’ll find it interesting.&#039;

Cool, I&#039;m big on Mr Spector I shall look forward to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Kadayi: Actually, the interview with Spector which goes up in a few weeks starts talking about the need to centralise some stuff in Game Design… but it’s terminology rather than approach. I think you’ll find it interesting.&#8217;</p>
<p>Cool, I&#8217;m big on Mr Spector I shall look forward to it.
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		<title>By: Pace</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16999</link>
		<dc:creator>Pace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-16999</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link to that Idle Thumbs article, Muzman, it was good.  Perhaps too harsh on reviewers in the second half, but a nice take on the situation.  

(If I may unnecessarily throw in my 2 cents, perhaps a game may just appeal to critics more than to us commoners?  Doesn&#039;t seem unreasonable to me for a variety of reasons, certainly happens with movies all the time.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link to that Idle Thumbs article, Muzman, it was good.  Perhaps too harsh on reviewers in the second half, but a nice take on the situation.  </p>
<p>(If I may unnecessarily throw in my 2 cents, perhaps a game may just appeal to critics more than to us commoners?  Doesn&#8217;t seem unreasonable to me for a variety of reasons, certainly happens with movies all the time.)
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		<title>By: Kieron Gillen</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16993</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieron Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-16993</guid>
		<description>Kadayi: Actually, the interview with Spector which goes up in a few weeks starts talking about the need to centralise some stuff in Game Design... but it&#039;s terminology rather than approach. I think you&#039;ll find it interesting.

I don&#039;t presume anything personal - I think he&#039;s just annoyed by the Bioshock piece and wanted to take it apart, as is his right. I do sense that he&#039;s angrier than he&#039;d admit to being though. Which is also fine, as it was the article was a bit of an irritant.

KG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kadayi: Actually, the interview with Spector which goes up in a few weeks starts talking about the need to centralise some stuff in Game Design&#8230; but it&#8217;s terminology rather than approach. I think you&#8217;ll find it interesting.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t presume anything personal &#8211; I think he&#8217;s just annoyed by the Bioshock piece and wanted to take it apart, as is his right. I do sense that he&#8217;s angrier than he&#8217;d admit to being though. Which is also fine, as it was the article was a bit of an irritant.</p>
<p>KG
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		<title>By: kadayi</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16991</link>
		<dc:creator>kadayi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-16991</guid>
		<description>That Critical gaming guy needs to &lt;i&gt;seriously&lt;/i&gt; buy a life. It&#039;s one thing to be critical of game reviews, it&#039;s another to  trash talk back at a fairly innocuous article.  Seems like a case of diminishing returns.  I can only assume the guy has some axe to grind with you personally kieron. 

I&#039;m also not too sure where he gets this idea that &#039;game design isn&#039;t taught in our colleges and universities&#039;  because there are plenty of  game design courses out there, or why he believes that there needs to be &#039;a centralized school of thought on game design&#039;.  Once you have conformity you have nowhere to go creatively. Within any design field there are always some basic tried and tested rules, but beyond that ,how you go is up to your imagination and budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Critical gaming guy needs to <i>seriously</i> buy a life. It&#8217;s one thing to be critical of game reviews, it&#8217;s another to  trash talk back at a fairly innocuous article.  Seems like a case of diminishing returns.  I can only assume the guy has some axe to grind with you personally kieron. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also not too sure where he gets this idea that &#8216;game design isn&#8217;t taught in our colleges and universities&#8217;  because there are plenty of  game design courses out there, or why he believes that there needs to be &#8216;a centralized school of thought on game design&#8217;.  Once you have conformity you have nowhere to go creatively. Within any design field there are always some basic tried and tested rules, but beyond that ,how you go is up to your imagination and budget.
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		<title>By: Muzman</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16892</link>
		<dc:creator>Muzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-16892</guid>
		<description>Y&#039;all might have seen this already, but the Idle Thumbs end of year article is good (and succinct) about the whole Bioshock Bruhaha
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.idlethumbs.net/display.php?id=273&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;clicky&lt;/a&gt;

Fyfe&#039;s other writing on Bioshock is cool too (my opinion having nothing to do with the fact he says the sort of things  I think about it, of course)
I&#039;d like to see the end of the &quot;backlash&quot; description, particularly where people characterise it as some sort of subconcious ecounterbalancing, be it over a film or game.  Having been arguably involved with it it&#039;s a pathetically inadequate term what what was going on.  People were bitching about bioshock from the get go, and as more people played it more people found the same problems.
To do a reverse characterisation; it is as though the journalists views are self evidently correct and any criticism is just the commoners hooting to feel better about their position, the illusion of free will continued through the excercise of dissent while the reality does not change ( a sad failing of the less self aware human mind), not because there&#039; is anything actually wrong with the official record of the game&#039;s greatness.
That&#039;s just a bit of invective which seems appropriate to being on the end of, effectively, a groupthink tag.  I do think &#039;backlashes&#039; of public opinion are a phenomeneon of social life, but it&#039;s dismissive to call &quot;Bioshock v Internet&quot; one.
(I should add, this is also nothing to do with KGs article, which I found to be just trying to point out the good and interesting things about it so that people don&#039;t forget.  It went a bit far here and there with its textual analysis, if you ask me, but that&#039;s life)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Y&#8217;all might have seen this already, but the Idle Thumbs end of year article is good (and succinct) about the whole Bioshock Bruhaha<br />
<a href="http://www.idlethumbs.net/display.php?id=273" rel="nofollow">clicky</a></p>
<p>Fyfe&#8217;s other writing on Bioshock is cool too (my opinion having nothing to do with the fact he says the sort of things  I think about it, of course)<br />
I&#8217;d like to see the end of the &#8220;backlash&#8221; description, particularly where people characterise it as some sort of subconcious ecounterbalancing, be it over a film or game.  Having been arguably involved with it it&#8217;s a pathetically inadequate term what what was going on.  People were bitching about bioshock from the get go, and as more people played it more people found the same problems.<br />
To do a reverse characterisation; it is as though the journalists views are self evidently correct and any criticism is just the commoners hooting to feel better about their position, the illusion of free will continued through the excercise of dissent while the reality does not change ( a sad failing of the less self aware human mind), not because there&#8217; is anything actually wrong with the official record of the game&#8217;s greatness.<br />
That&#8217;s just a bit of invective which seems appropriate to being on the end of, effectively, a groupthink tag.  I do think &#8216;backlashes&#8217; of public opinion are a phenomeneon of social life, but it&#8217;s dismissive to call &#8220;Bioshock v Internet&#8221; one.<br />
(I should add, this is also nothing to do with KGs article, which I found to be just trying to point out the good and interesting things about it so that people don&#8217;t forget.  It went a bit far here and there with its textual analysis, if you ask me, but that&#8217;s life)
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		<title>By: Meat Circus</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16878</link>
		<dc:creator>Meat Circus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-16878</guid>
		<description>@Lu-Tze:

Maybe they&#039;ll just have to edit Soul Calibur so you&#039;re fighting with increasingly deadly sticks of celery or some such.

The Clucking Fist is such a buffoon, he still hasn&#039;t realised that every time he goes on a publicity blitz, his natural dislikability causes Labour to slump in the polls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lu-Tze:</p>
<p>Maybe they&#8217;ll just have to edit Soul Calibur so you&#8217;re fighting with increasingly deadly sticks of celery or some such.</p>
<p>The Clucking Fist is such a buffoon, he still hasn&#8217;t realised that every time he goes on a publicity blitz, his natural dislikability causes Labour to slump in the polls.
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		<title>By: Kieron Gillen</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16877</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieron Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=916#comment-16877</guid>
		<description>Matt: Worth pointing out that I did think some of the stuff he said is fair. If I didn&#039;t think there was something worthwhile there, I wouldn&#039;t have linked to it. I do think he makes some key errors, if only in reading the article&#039;s intent. Bits where I admit the game is weak and even explain why imply that I&#039;m not actually arguing the &quot;true&quot; nature of Bioshock is some kind of greatest-game-ever. 

(I think he has better points - at least to think about and argue against - in his other articles, admittedly.)

KG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt: Worth pointing out that I did think some of the stuff he said is fair. If I didn&#8217;t think there was something worthwhile there, I wouldn&#8217;t have linked to it. I do think he makes some key errors, if only in reading the article&#8217;s intent. Bits where I admit the game is weak and even explain why imply that I&#8217;m not actually arguing the &#8220;true&#8221; nature of Bioshock is some kind of greatest-game-ever. </p>
<p>(I think he has better points &#8211; at least to think about and argue against &#8211; in his other articles, admittedly.)</p>
<p>KG
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		<title>By: Lu-Tze</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16874</link>
		<dc:creator>Lu-Tze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In terms of &quot;Paper News&quot; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/article684784.ece&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gordon Brown&#039;s bit in The Sun today about knife crime&lt;/a&gt; also (according to their interpretation) will call for a ban on blade wielding characters in games.

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;PM&quot;&gt;The PM went on: “I am very worried about video and computer games.

“No one wants censorship or an interfering State.

“But the industry has some responsibility to society and needs to exercise that.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So no Soul Calibur IV release in the UK then? I expect he&#039;ll be levying similar concerns at all movies featuring anyone wielding a blade, and certainly all books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of &#8220;Paper News&#8221; <a href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/article684784.ece" rel="nofollow">Gordon Brown&#8217;s bit in The Sun today about knife crime</a> also (according to their interpretation) will call for a ban on blade wielding characters in games.</p>
<blockquote cite="PM"><p>The PM went on: “I am very worried about video and computer games.</p>
<p>“No one wants censorship or an interfering State.</p>
<p>“But the industry has some responsibility to society and needs to exercise that.”</p></blockquote>
<p>So no Soul Calibur IV release in the UK then? I expect he&#8217;ll be levying similar concerns at all movies featuring anyone wielding a blade, and certainly all books.
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16870</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think people are being a little harsh on the Critical Gaming article.  It is fine I agree with some of the things he says and actually think some of his criticisms of the original article are fair. (Though I thought I remembered Kieron saying i was more of a rant than an essay in the first place.)  The problem with it is it doesn&#039;t really go anywhere, it is pretty easy to go through an existing article and deconstruct it and as I said I don&#039;t think the original article was meant to be a complete argument and was always meant to be personal.  I would have liked to see him develop his own ideas more and for the article to have been constructed more around the exploration of the game.  

He does have other articles on the site, a feminist essay and some others, and I believe he is working on a colection of essays for Bioshock.  I&#039;m not sure I was that impressed by the feminism one, it didn&#039;t quite ask the right questions so much as state obvious facts from the game and his definition of the gaze was missing a crucial element.  But I admire the time and effort he is putting in to it and he is at least attempting to create a meaningful discourse with the medium and is not afraid to put his thoughts out there, which is a good thing as is engaging with other peoples articles and trying to examine them.

I enjoyed reading the fallout diary too.  It was interesting to see how they will rationalise certain aspects of the game.  I personally think it is a positive article, whatever peoples personal views on how the faction should be represented what it does show is that they are putting a lot of thought into the game and into the environment within it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think people are being a little harsh on the Critical Gaming article.  It is fine I agree with some of the things he says and actually think some of his criticisms of the original article are fair. (Though I thought I remembered Kieron saying i was more of a rant than an essay in the first place.)  The problem with it is it doesn&#8217;t really go anywhere, it is pretty easy to go through an existing article and deconstruct it and as I said I don&#8217;t think the original article was meant to be a complete argument and was always meant to be personal.  I would have liked to see him develop his own ideas more and for the article to have been constructed more around the exploration of the game.  </p>
<p>He does have other articles on the site, a feminist essay and some others, and I believe he is working on a colection of essays for Bioshock.  I&#8217;m not sure I was that impressed by the feminism one, it didn&#8217;t quite ask the right questions so much as state obvious facts from the game and his definition of the gaze was missing a crucial element.  But I admire the time and effort he is putting in to it and he is at least attempting to create a meaningful discourse with the medium and is not afraid to put his thoughts out there, which is a good thing as is engaging with other peoples articles and trying to examine them.</p>
<p>I enjoyed reading the fallout diary too.  It was interesting to see how they will rationalise certain aspects of the game.  I personally think it is a positive article, whatever peoples personal views on how the faction should be represented what it does show is that they are putting a lot of thought into the game and into the environment within it.
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		<title>By: ryan in exile</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/13/the-sunday-papers-2/#comment-16869</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan in exile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>can we draw connections between strawberry switchblade, current 93 and noddy the gnome?  im sure there is a noddy game....right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>can we draw connections between strawberry switchblade, current 93 and noddy the gnome?  im sure there is a noddy game&#8230;.right?
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