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	<title>Comments on: The Sunday Papers</title>
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		<title>By: dhex</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21818</link>
		<dc:creator>dhex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21818</guid>
		<description>malthusians are always depressing. and silly!

think of it as a secular replacement for religious apocalypse. it makes more sense that way, and carries a similar level of guilt over the very fact of existence.

&lt;i&gt;Just because something is goverment funded doesn’t mean it’s the result of hidden machinations put in place by the facists in their palaces or the Illuminati in the shadows.&lt;/i&gt;

that&#039;s just what they want you to believe.

on a serious note, it would be very interesting to see who exactly was lobbying for this change. and then of course to follow up in a year or two and see what kind of correlation between lobbying and funding we find. i&#039;m willing to be it&#039;ll be strong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>malthusians are always depressing. and silly!</p>
<p>think of it as a secular replacement for religious apocalypse. it makes more sense that way, and carries a similar level of guilt over the very fact of existence.</p>
<p><i>Just because something is goverment funded doesn’t mean it’s the result of hidden machinations put in place by the facists in their palaces or the Illuminati in the shadows.</i></p>
<p>that&#8217;s just what they want you to believe.</p>
<p>on a serious note, it would be very interesting to see who exactly was lobbying for this change. and then of course to follow up in a year or two and see what kind of correlation between lobbying and funding we find. i&#8217;m willing to be it&#8217;ll be strong.</p>
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		<title>By: Pace</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21723</link>
		<dc:creator>Pace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 06:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21723</guid>
		<description>Well, he&#039;s got some points, like how the pious sector, especially Mormons, are outbreeding the crap out of the rest of us contraceptive using infidels here in the US.  The rest of it seems a tad alarmist though, he seems to be implying that our vastly enhanced leisure activities (such as video games) will cause us to become terminal couch potatoes.  He also uses the example of psychoactive drugs, which to me is the best example of what he refers to as &quot;disappearing up our own brainstems&quot;, but if heroin can&#039;t bring down civilization, can little old video games?  I think most people can identify problem behavior and avoid it.  (and I think he&#039;d have been better off leaving out the whole discussion of aliens and the Fermi paradox though, he had enough to say about humans without that angle.)   ..Hmm, this seems a bit tangential to the usual Peggle and TB vs. RT fare...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, he&#8217;s got some points, like how the pious sector, especially Mormons, are outbreeding the crap out of the rest of us contraceptive using infidels here in the US.  The rest of it seems a tad alarmist though, he seems to be implying that our vastly enhanced leisure activities (such as video games) will cause us to become terminal couch potatoes.  He also uses the example of psychoactive drugs, which to me is the best example of what he refers to as &#8220;disappearing up our own brainstems&#8221;, but if heroin can&#8217;t bring down civilization, can little old video games?  I think most people can identify problem behavior and avoid it.  (and I think he&#8217;d have been better off leaving out the whole discussion of aliens and the Fermi paradox though, he had enough to say about humans without that angle.)   ..Hmm, this seems a bit tangential to the usual Peggle and TB vs. RT fare&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21720</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 05:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21720</guid>
		<description>What a wonderfully depressing outlook on reality those Edge fellows have. It brings to mind, as mentioned in another comment, of the folks with the sandwich boards and cowbells, screaming &#039;The end is nigh&#039; to anyone who will listen. 

But is it depressing because it&#039;s somewhat plausible? I haven&#039;t quite made up my mind on that yet, but this kind of thing tends to kick me right into paranoia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a wonderfully depressing outlook on reality those Edge fellows have. It brings to mind, as mentioned in another comment, of the folks with the sandwich boards and cowbells, screaming &#8216;The end is nigh&#8217; to anyone who will listen. </p>
<p>But is it depressing because it&#8217;s somewhat plausible? I haven&#8217;t quite made up my mind on that yet, but this kind of thing tends to kick me right into paranoia.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21712</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21712</guid>
		<description>Blarp. Never mind, I&#039;m an idiot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blarp. Never mind, I&#8217;m an idiot.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21680</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21680</guid>
		<description>Well over a million marched down the street to say how much they didn&#039;t want a war. But we&#039;re still paying hundreds of millions, if not tens of billions, on that.
Also I don&#039;t really care about sports so I oppose how much they&#039;re spending on the olympics.
Also I don&#039;t have children but that doesn&#039;t stop my hard earned student loans being spent on the working class teenager&#039;s bling.
But I do like Duchy original biscuits so support the royal family getting an alowance.
I do like having electricity and not being shot by those damned working classes so support power stations and the filth.

You seem to overestimate how much the goverment is going to put into games.  You can&#039;t talk about big publishers overwhelming and dominating an industry and then complain when something steps in to lift the little guys up.

Also, stop reading 1984 and Deus Ex. Just because something is goverment funded doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s the result of hidden machinations put in place by the facists in their palaces or the Illuminati in the shadows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well over a million marched down the street to say how much they didn&#8217;t want a war. But we&#8217;re still paying hundreds of millions, if not tens of billions, on that.<br />
Also I don&#8217;t really care about sports so I oppose how much they&#8217;re spending on the olympics.<br />
Also I don&#8217;t have children but that doesn&#8217;t stop my hard earned student loans being spent on the working class teenager&#8217;s bling.<br />
But I do like Duchy original biscuits so support the royal family getting an alowance.<br />
I do like having electricity and not being shot by those damned working classes so support power stations and the filth.</p>
<p>You seem to overestimate how much the goverment is going to put into games.  You can&#8217;t talk about big publishers overwhelming and dominating an industry and then complain when something steps in to lift the little guys up.</p>
<p>Also, stop reading 1984 and Deus Ex. Just because something is goverment funded doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s the result of hidden machinations put in place by the facists in their palaces or the Illuminati in the shadows.</p>
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		<title>By: WanderingTaoist</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21663</link>
		<dc:creator>WanderingTaoist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21663</guid>
		<description>On tax breaks: I hate them in principle, they spoil the market behavior. Yes, I&#039;m a gamer, and there are French games I adore (the first and second Rayman, Beyond Good and Evil), but why should anybody who doesn&#039;t give rat&#039;s ass about games pay for them with their taxes is beyond me. Moreover, as has been stated, French government doesn&#039;t support them because they are games, but because they are French. 

The same attitude made French cinematography a stinking cesspool with occasional shiny moment. Why? Because enterpreneurial risk is paid for by the government, therefore you don&#039;t have to care about whether people will like it or not - if it blows, you still get a large part of your investment back. Which basically means that yes, with government support there will be more games from France, but it also means that there will be more shitty games from France. How this will benefit gamers is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On tax breaks: I hate them in principle, they spoil the market behavior. Yes, I&#8217;m a gamer, and there are French games I adore (the first and second Rayman, Beyond Good and Evil), but why should anybody who doesn&#8217;t give rat&#8217;s ass about games pay for them with their taxes is beyond me. Moreover, as has been stated, French government doesn&#8217;t support them because they are games, but because they are French. </p>
<p>The same attitude made French cinematography a stinking cesspool with occasional shiny moment. Why? Because enterpreneurial risk is paid for by the government, therefore you don&#8217;t have to care about whether people will like it or not &#8211; if it blows, you still get a large part of your investment back. Which basically means that yes, with government support there will be more games from France, but it also means that there will be more shitty games from France. How this will benefit gamers is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21662</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21662</guid>
		<description>About taxbreaks and goverment sponsorships.
A Matter of Life and Death was goverment funded.
Suck on that Dracko you goddamn liberal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About taxbreaks and goverment sponsorships.<br />
A Matter of Life and Death was goverment funded.<br />
Suck on that Dracko you goddamn liberal.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Doull</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21615</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Doull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21615</guid>
		<description>Re: The Fermi Paradox. I ended up writing a short story based around Eve Online and this idea which just got narrowly rejected from Interzone&#039;s November email intake. I&#039;m trying to get it published elsewhere - but it rocks, and if I get too many more rejections I might just have to put it online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: The Fermi Paradox. I ended up writing a short story based around Eve Online and this idea which just got narrowly rejected from Interzone&#8217;s November email intake. I&#8217;m trying to get it published elsewhere &#8211; but it rocks, and if I get too many more rejections I might just have to put it online.</p>
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		<title>By: dhex</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21613</link>
		<dc:creator>dhex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21613</guid>
		<description>what some people seem to be missing here is that this revenue will then have to come from somewhere else. it&#039;s not like anyone&#039;s going to be instituting tax relief package A and dropping spending package B. so were i a taxpayer in one of these countries i&#039;d probably be a bit pissed. we&#039;re not talking about a remotely vital industry here, even. even in that case, either build a viable business model or get fucked - agribusiness, i look in your general direction.

hell, i&#039;m not very hot on the city of new york giving breaks to every tom, dick and harry with a video camera either; it&#039;s a terrible fucking inconvenience if you have to get anywhere and does very little for the economy of new york city. even taking into account the local production studios in LIC and elsewhere, the fact that these breaks were sold as economically stimulating is fairly ridiculous.

it&#039;s a great way to keep the mayor&#039;s office of film and tv in business, however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what some people seem to be missing here is that this revenue will then have to come from somewhere else. it&#8217;s not like anyone&#8217;s going to be instituting tax relief package A and dropping spending package B. so were i a taxpayer in one of these countries i&#8217;d probably be a bit pissed. we&#8217;re not talking about a remotely vital industry here, even. even in that case, either build a viable business model or get fucked &#8211; agribusiness, i look in your general direction.</p>
<p>hell, i&#8217;m not very hot on the city of new york giving breaks to every tom, dick and harry with a video camera either; it&#8217;s a terrible fucking inconvenience if you have to get anywhere and does very little for the economy of new york city. even taking into account the local production studios in LIC and elsewhere, the fact that these breaks were sold as economically stimulating is fairly ridiculous.</p>
<p>it&#8217;s a great way to keep the mayor&#8217;s office of film and tv in business, however.</p>
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		<title>By: fluffy bunny</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21600</link>
		<dc:creator>fluffy bunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 19:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21600</guid>
		<description>How someone can spin this into a bad thing is beyond me. This isn&#039;t any different than government grants - okay, they give money straight out instead of tax benefits, but the end result is the same - and the end result is good for developers and good for gamers.

Let&#039;s be honest here, the government isn&#039;t forcing anyone to apply for tax benefits, just as the Nordic governments aren&#039;t forcing anyone to apply for grants (eg. through the Nordic Game Program). If you want to make a game without any outside interference, you can do that, just like before. So where&#039;s the problem?

I for one am happy that governments around the world are realizing that they should support their games industry. As a gamer, this means I can look forward to Dreamfall getting sequels (thanks in part to funding from the Norwegian government) and hopefully the spectacular-looking Metronome getting a publishing contract (as the devs have been given funding by the Nordic Game Program to continue work on the game independently), among other things. I like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How someone can spin this into a bad thing is beyond me. This isn&#8217;t any different than government grants &#8211; okay, they give money straight out instead of tax benefits, but the end result is the same &#8211; and the end result is good for developers and good for gamers.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be honest here, the government isn&#8217;t forcing anyone to apply for tax benefits, just as the Nordic governments aren&#8217;t forcing anyone to apply for grants (eg. through the Nordic Game Program). If you want to make a game without any outside interference, you can do that, just like before. So where&#8217;s the problem?</p>
<p>I for one am happy that governments around the world are realizing that they should support their games industry. As a gamer, this means I can look forward to Dreamfall getting sequels (thanks in part to funding from the Norwegian government) and hopefully the spectacular-looking Metronome getting a publishing contract (as the devs have been given funding by the Nordic Game Program to continue work on the game independently), among other things. I like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Leeks!</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21559</link>
		<dc:creator>Leeks!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 19:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21559</guid>
		<description>So - If Dwarf Fortress is inkblot and NBA 40K (Or whatever--in the future, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=68488.0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;basketball is war&lt;/a&gt;) represents arts-and-crafts design, what would Valve be, with their &#039;you-can-have-it-when-we&#039;re-done-and-not-before&#039; approach? To me, it seems as though if they aren&#039;t the exception to the rule, their ethos does combine elements of both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So &#8211; If Dwarf Fortress is inkblot and NBA 40K (Or whatever&#8211;in the future, <a href="http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?topic=68488.0" rel="nofollow">basketball is war</a>) represents arts-and-crafts design, what would Valve be, with their &#8216;you-can-have-it-when-we&#8217;re-done-and-not-before&#8217; approach? To me, it seems as though if they aren&#8217;t the exception to the rule, their ethos does combine elements of both.</p>
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		<title>By: Balthazar</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/03/the-sunday-papers-5/comment-page-1/#comment-21517</link>
		<dc:creator>Balthazar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1037#comment-21517</guid>
		<description>Dracko - Okay, so would you say tax cuts are actually a BAD thing? Remember, they are OPTIONAL... either you get one, and in that case you just have to pay LESS TAXES to the government, or you don&#039;t get it, and nothing changes.

Your &quot;if it&#039;s my tax money&quot; is a very easy way to complain. The government doesn&#039;t literally give money to certain developers (I can&#039;t say this doesn&#039;t happen in film, the government actually gives money to people who want to make movies... does that happen where you live?), it just asks less money from them. 

Is it about your money or theirs then?

As for the artistic or moral content of a game, I think you&#039;re being pessimistic with the government&#039;s intentions. Okay, maybe they want to force content on us, but they want to spur the growth of the industry in the country above all. 

What I want to stress is that this measure is not mandatory, nor forced on everyone&#039;s throats, and not coming out directly off the taxpayer&#039;s pocket.

PS: French people actually LIKE most french films... If they weren&#039;t made on your tax money, why should you care?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dracko &#8211; Okay, so would you say tax cuts are actually a BAD thing? Remember, they are OPTIONAL&#8230; either you get one, and in that case you just have to pay LESS TAXES to the government, or you don&#8217;t get it, and nothing changes.</p>
<p>Your &#8220;if it&#8217;s my tax money&#8221; is a very easy way to complain. The government doesn&#8217;t literally give money to certain developers (I can&#8217;t say this doesn&#8217;t happen in film, the government actually gives money to people who want to make movies&#8230; does that happen where you live?), it just asks less money from them. </p>
<p>Is it about your money or theirs then?</p>
<p>As for the artistic or moral content of a game, I think you&#8217;re being pessimistic with the government&#8217;s intentions. Okay, maybe they want to force content on us, but they want to spur the growth of the industry in the country above all. </p>
<p>What I want to stress is that this measure is not mandatory, nor forced on everyone&#8217;s throats, and not coming out directly off the taxpayer&#8217;s pocket.</p>
<p>PS: French people actually LIKE most french films&#8230; If they weren&#8217;t made on your tax money, why should you care?</p>
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