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	<title>Comments on: Breakfast Of Champions For Two Please</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/</link>
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		<title>By: Anthony Damiani</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26554</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Damiani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26554</guid>
		<description>If, as is reasonable, we assume this is just taking as much of the code from the now-cancelled Marvel MMO as they can legally get away with, and sticking a Champions wrapper on it-- I think it&#039;s doubtful that we&#039;ll see anything as point-buy in its focus as the HERO system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If, as is reasonable, we assume this is just taking as much of the code from the now-cancelled Marvel MMO as they can legally get away with, and sticking a Champions wrapper on it&#8211; I think it&#8217;s doubtful that we&#8217;ll see anything as point-buy in its focus as the HERO system.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferrous Buller</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26501</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferrous Buller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26501</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t CoH originally try to be &quot;a world without character classes&quot; (i.e., purely skill-based, not class-based), but the developers discovered that players were gimping themselves by trying to do too many things, so they had to come up with the current class system?  If I&#039;m remembering that correctly, I&#039;m curious what they&#039;ll do to avoid that problem this time.  Never played Champions PnP before, so I don&#039;t know how the system works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t CoH originally try to be &#8220;a world without character classes&#8221; (i.e., purely skill-based, not class-based), but the developers discovered that players were gimping themselves by trying to do too many things, so they had to come up with the current class system?  If I&#8217;m remembering that correctly, I&#8217;m curious what they&#8217;ll do to avoid that problem this time.  Never played Champions PnP before, so I don&#8217;t know how the system works.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr.Brand</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26427</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr.Brand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26427</guid>
		<description>@elias:

200000+ sales for a pen and paper game is much better than similar sales for an MMO. PnP typically needs only small teams - it&#039;s a book with some art and a system thought up by whichever people were considered the &quot;big brains&quot;.

Then you add expansions, sourcebooks, modules. A team of 20 or so could churn them out at a fair clip, and with 200k owners of the core game books (usually more than one book!) would at least buy some of them.

Too bad everybody interested have scattered all over the world. Will have to look into some of the online-based PnP tools..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@elias:</p>
<p>200000+ sales for a pen and paper game is much better than similar sales for an MMO. PnP typically needs only small teams &#8211; it&#8217;s a book with some art and a system thought up by whichever people were considered the &#8220;big brains&#8221;.</p>
<p>Then you add expansions, sourcebooks, modules. A team of 20 or so could churn them out at a fair clip, and with 200k owners of the core game books (usually more than one book!) would at least buy some of them.</p>
<p>Too bad everybody interested have scattered all over the world. Will have to look into some of the online-based PnP tools..</p>
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		<title>By: Stromko</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26387</link>
		<dc:creator>Stromko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26387</guid>
		<description>This sounds exactly like what I was hoping CoH to be when it was far off from release, a game that let you mix and match powers and effects to make just about any kind of hero you could think of.  But I&#039;m going to try to keep my expectations low on this one.

It seems to me they planned CoH to be a lot like Champions Online is planned to be. With CoH they eventually compromised with a class-based system with every character occupying a group niche. I felt the combat also lost its shine after awhile; running around the city smacking down entire gangs is quite nice, but it took way too long to get new powers and having a given set of powers lended themselves to the same one or two combos over and over and over again.

That said, CoH is still one of the very best MMOs out there. Even if you have to mold your idea around the system rather than the other way around, the customizable ID card and wealth of outfit choices went a long way to delivering on their promise. They&#039;ve supported it very well with additions like the black market and the Invention system, the &#039;Issues&#039; look like an excellent example of episodic content (love the newspaper mission arcs), and that they now have a successful and well-developed superhero MMO in their portfolio just might give them the financing and ability to make Champions Online the game they, and I, wanted CoH to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds exactly like what I was hoping CoH to be when it was far off from release, a game that let you mix and match powers and effects to make just about any kind of hero you could think of.  But I&#8217;m going to try to keep my expectations low on this one.</p>
<p>It seems to me they planned CoH to be a lot like Champions Online is planned to be. With CoH they eventually compromised with a class-based system with every character occupying a group niche. I felt the combat also lost its shine after awhile; running around the city smacking down entire gangs is quite nice, but it took way too long to get new powers and having a given set of powers lended themselves to the same one or two combos over and over and over again.</p>
<p>That said, CoH is still one of the very best MMOs out there. Even if you have to mold your idea around the system rather than the other way around, the customizable ID card and wealth of outfit choices went a long way to delivering on their promise. They&#8217;ve supported it very well with additions like the black market and the Invention system, the &#8216;Issues&#8217; look like an excellent example of episodic content (love the newspaper mission arcs), and that they now have a successful and well-developed superhero MMO in their portfolio just might give them the financing and ability to make Champions Online the game they, and I, wanted CoH to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Pink</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26380</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Pink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26380</guid>
		<description>I had a dabble in CoH, but the combat didn&#039;t really grab me. And since (at the time) there was little else to do in the game but fight, that sort of put a dampner on things. I think this game will live or die on its combat system.

They&#039;re spot on with the character customisation though. The biggest problem with MMOs (especially WoW) is the feeling of your character being so generic. I spent as much time in the CoH character generator as I did in the game, and if they&#039;re extending this to the powers as well... it sounds like it has an awful lot of potential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a dabble in CoH, but the combat didn&#8217;t really grab me. And since (at the time) there was little else to do in the game but fight, that sort of put a dampner on things. I think this game will live or die on its combat system.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re spot on with the character customisation though. The biggest problem with MMOs (especially WoW) is the feeling of your character being so generic. I spent as much time in the CoH character generator as I did in the game, and if they&#8217;re extending this to the powers as well&#8230; it sounds like it has an awful lot of potential.</p>
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		<title>By: Lu-Tze</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26375</link>
		<dc:creator>Lu-Tze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26375</guid>
		<description>The classic way to auto-generate a nemesis would see it push all the sliders in the opposite direction.

You wear all black? They stole their clothes from a clown. You use Fire? They use Ice. You are thin, tall, and young? They are fat, short, and old.

It feels like City of Heroes 2. It looks like City of Heroes 2. Neither of these things worry me in the slightest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The classic way to auto-generate a nemesis would see it push all the sliders in the opposite direction.</p>
<p>You wear all black? They stole their clothes from a clown. You use Fire? They use Ice. You are thin, tall, and young? They are fat, short, and old.</p>
<p>It feels like City of Heroes 2. It looks like City of Heroes 2. Neither of these things worry me in the slightest.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26355</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26355</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“In Champions Online, you design your character’s supreme adversary...”&lt;/i&gt;

I wonder if you could let the program do that FOR you. I mean, can they write a...script...programme...thing that reads your character&#039;s name, attributes and powerset and extrapolates the most interesting villain from there? e.g.:

&lt;i&gt;Spider-Man&lt;/i&gt;
Young Male Hero
Agile
Superstrong
Locomotive Abilities/Accoutrements
Animal-Based
Science-Based
Distance attacks
Close Combat
Honourable Hero (c.f. Anti-Hero, Vigilante, etc.)
Romantic Hero

Click the...dooberry...and you get

&lt;i&gt;Doctor Octopus&lt;/i&gt;
Older Male Villain
Dark Mirror Villain (reflects the hero&#039;s personality/looks. See also Scorpion, Venom)
Superstrong
Locomotive Abilities/Accoutrements
Animal-Based
Science-Based
Close Combat

&lt;i&gt;Green Goblin&lt;/i&gt;
Older Male Villain / Young Male Villain
Obsessed With The Hero
Superstrong
Locomotive Abilities/Accoutrements
Science-Based
Dishonourable Villain (not always a tautology)
Distance attacks

&lt;i&gt;Black Cat&lt;/i&gt;
Young Female Villain
Agile
Animal-Based
Close Combat
Honourable Villain
Romantic Foil (Spider-Man does less damage when he attacks because he thinks he can &quot;save&quot; her...for Romance!)

etc., etc..

I mean, why give yourself an easy ride with The Looter (Piss Weak/Thick As Pigshit/Science-Based/Rides A Hot Air Balloon) when you can match wits with The Vulture? It would seem more like a story, then.

Oh, Christ, I know SO LITTLE about programmings and compters!

//\Oo/\\
(see how I resisted the &quot;Surprise &quot;O-Face&quot; Attack&quot; joke?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“In Champions Online, you design your character’s supreme adversary&#8230;”</i></p>
<p>I wonder if you could let the program do that FOR you. I mean, can they write a&#8230;script&#8230;programme&#8230;thing that reads your character&#8217;s name, attributes and powerset and extrapolates the most interesting villain from there? e.g.:</p>
<p><i>Spider-Man</i><br />
Young Male Hero<br />
Agile<br />
Superstrong<br />
Locomotive Abilities/Accoutrements<br />
Animal-Based<br />
Science-Based<br />
Distance attacks<br />
Close Combat<br />
Honourable Hero (c.f. Anti-Hero, Vigilante, etc.)<br />
Romantic Hero</p>
<p>Click the&#8230;dooberry&#8230;and you get</p>
<p><i>Doctor Octopus</i><br />
Older Male Villain<br />
Dark Mirror Villain (reflects the hero&#8217;s personality/looks. See also Scorpion, Venom)<br />
Superstrong<br />
Locomotive Abilities/Accoutrements<br />
Animal-Based<br />
Science-Based<br />
Close Combat</p>
<p><i>Green Goblin</i><br />
Older Male Villain / Young Male Villain<br />
Obsessed With The Hero<br />
Superstrong<br />
Locomotive Abilities/Accoutrements<br />
Science-Based<br />
Dishonourable Villain (not always a tautology)<br />
Distance attacks</p>
<p><i>Black Cat</i><br />
Young Female Villain<br />
Agile<br />
Animal-Based<br />
Close Combat<br />
Honourable Villain<br />
Romantic Foil (Spider-Man does less damage when he attacks because he thinks he can &#8220;save&#8221; her&#8230;for Romance!)</p>
<p>etc., etc..</p>
<p>I mean, why give yourself an easy ride with The Looter (Piss Weak/Thick As Pigshit/Science-Based/Rides A Hot Air Balloon) when you can match wits with The Vulture? It would seem more like a story, then.</p>
<p>Oh, Christ, I know SO LITTLE about programmings and compters!</p>
<p>//\Oo/\\<br />
(see how I resisted the &#8220;Surprise &#8220;O-Face&#8221; Attack&#8221; joke?)</p>
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		<title>By: Tellurian</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26343</link>
		<dc:creator>Tellurian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26343</guid>
		<description>OH YES, CHAMPIONS! O____ô 

Hopefully this will put Champions / HERO System &quot;up there&quot; with the other big ones (which it has already surpassed, being one of the best P&#039;n&#039;P rule sets there are).
It&#039;s of course bigger in the state, but here overseas in a non English speaking country it&#039;s hard to find. Maybe that&#039;ll change with Champions Online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OH YES, CHAMPIONS! O____ô </p>
<p>Hopefully this will put Champions / HERO System &#8220;up there&#8221; with the other big ones (which it has already surpassed, being one of the best P&#8217;n'P rule sets there are).<br />
It&#8217;s of course bigger in the state, but here overseas in a non English speaking country it&#8217;s hard to find. Maybe that&#8217;ll change with Champions Online.</p>
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		<title>By: Citizen Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26335</link>
		<dc:creator>Citizen Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26335</guid>
		<description>Champions (and the entire HERO system became) is long overdue for this. 

Nothing was so satisfying as being able to create a cosmic ray (10 pts) that would do minor damage to a target (3 pts), deliver massive stunning damage to everyone around that target (15pts), but would leave you slowed for the next round (-5 pts) and unable to speak for 10 minutes. (-3 pts)

If you introduce classes to this kind of gleeful insanity, I will cry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Champions (and the entire HERO system became) is long overdue for this. </p>
<p>Nothing was so satisfying as being able to create a cosmic ray (10 pts) that would do minor damage to a target (3 pts), deliver massive stunning damage to everyone around that target (15pts), but would leave you slowed for the next round (-5 pts) and unable to speak for 10 minutes. (-3 pts)</p>
<p>If you introduce classes to this kind of gleeful insanity, I will cry.</p>
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		<title>By: Solario</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26334</link>
		<dc:creator>Solario</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26334</guid>
		<description>Awesome. As someone who was into CoH pre-Beta, hell pre-NC Soft take over and the huge overhaul on the project, this looks just execellent. I like the more cell-shady art direction a lot more than CoH too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome. As someone who was into CoH pre-Beta, hell pre-NC Soft take over and the huge overhaul on the project, this looks just execellent. I like the more cell-shady art direction a lot more than CoH too.</p>
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		<title>By: Gendal</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26330</link>
		<dc:creator>Gendal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26330</guid>
		<description>I never really played any pen &amp; paper RPG but man did I ever love the source books, and Champions was way up there. 

But the combat sounds like they are just removing auto attack. I will need a lot more details about that before I get excited, especially since fast and frantic is a lot less entertaining to me than thoughtful and slow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never really played any pen &amp; paper RPG but man did I ever love the source books, and Champions was way up there. </p>
<p>But the combat sounds like they are just removing auto attack. I will need a lot more details about that before I get excited, especially since fast and frantic is a lot less entertaining to me than thoughtful and slow.</p>
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		<title>By: Scandalon</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/20/breakfast-of-champions-for-two-please/comment-page-1/#comment-26313</link>
		<dc:creator>Scandalon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1166#comment-26313</guid>
		<description>No, no, see, other MMO&#039;s, when they reach that level, level 10, that&#039;s it. But when Champion&#039;s get there, when it just needs that little bit extra &quot;Oomp&quot;, &quot;Ker-Pow!&quot; or &quot;Biff!&quot;, they crank it to 11. 

(If you want 12 you&#039;ll have to wait for the expansion pack.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, no, see, other MMO&#8217;s, when they reach that level, level 10, that&#8217;s it. But when Champion&#8217;s get there, when it just needs that little bit extra &#8220;Oomp&#8221;, &#8220;Ker-Pow!&#8221; or &#8220;Biff!&#8221;, they crank it to 11. </p>
<p>(If you want 12 you&#8217;ll have to wait for the expansion pack.)</p>
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