Comments on: Toady: “It was supposed to take two months.”

By: K-k

K-k — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:07:20 +0000

Interface problems? If you want pretty icons, go play pretty games. :P This game is about being in depth to the max, not pretty interface. The interface is very easy to operate with less than an hour of doing things.

By: Jon

Jon — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:39:18 +0000

Sorry, can’t do it. The interface hurts my eyes and is far too busy.

By: Jon

Jon — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:08:20 +0000

I am going to try DF once again, just because of the comments above.

The interface looks so crazy to start with though :(

By: yutt

yutt — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:20:16 +0000

If Will Wright had made an independent studio, like Valve, Tarn and Zach would be employed and have expert mentorship and professional tools at their disposal.

Unfortunately there aren’t enough Valves in the world.

By: KingMob

KingMob — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:45:42 +0000

I’d like to see the DF developers using or working with the tools Spore is supposed to bring to the table, in terms of procedural generation and sharing user-created assets.

Maybe down the road when Spore is finished and the sharing tools are available for license the DF guys will decide to have other people’s fortresses show up in your game, or vice versa.

By: Heartless_

Heartless_ — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:11:43 +0000

All great game designers have hit a wall when it comes to translating a great game design into a friendly UI. Actually, a lot of great games have suffered from lack of a decent UI and have suffered commercially because of it. However, Dwarf Fortress really is not a commercial entity… yet, so they are 100% genius to ignore the constant cries for UI improvements.

If (when?) they ever finish the underlying engine they want, the UI is a stone’s throw away with the right team working on it. With the plethora of freely available graphic sets, it could actually start well before hand, but just not by the two guys focusing on the guts of the game.

Personally, I’ve been waiting some time to see a DF UI project take off and parallel development with the DF twosome, in hopes that they arrive at the final product at the same time.

Lol.. I said final product while referring to Dwarf Fortress…

By: Stromko

Stromko — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:03:51 +0000

Something that should be pointed out about most ‘elitists’ is when they were getting used to DF it was a hell of a lot simpler. Used to be, every mountain-side was essentially the same, they all had the necessary resources and features to be a full and playable fortress. Didn’t used to have a Z-axis either, which adds both complexity and technical issues to grapple with. It’s easier than ever to get a lagtastic fort with little to no options to survive and thrive and have no idea why, and I could see that putting most people off on the game.

About the key-bindings. You can hit the Tab button and choose to have the screen divided up so that it shows the keys at all times. I’ve been playing DF for years and I still have to do this sometimes, there’s just too many keys and submenus for them to be the least bit intuitive.

Even when the game was still 2D and still chose fort sites for you, I was only able to get used to it by having the wiki open at all times ready to look up whatever question I had. It is essentially the instruction manual, and if you aren’t looking at it, well, you might have problems figuring out how to work it.

DF is most likely going to become easier to learn, somehow, at some point. Perhaps there’ll be a truly kickass tile-set that is both usable and easy to learn. Maybe some key systems will get a better interface (job management for one).

If the gameplay on offer doesn’t seem compelling enough for you to put up with learning it as it is, well, there’s no rush. It’s only going to get better over time, whether or not it ever gets easier.

By: Kieron Gillen

Kieron Gillen — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:29:08 +0000

Toady talks about the interface and graphics issues in the interview, if people want to read. He describes the game as a storyboard, and the storyboard has to be complete before they move onto anything else.

(i.e. The game has to be complete before they can concentrate on trying to make a better interface or graphics, because they know that if they did the latter any earlier, it would all have to be thrown into the bin when the later features arrived. Until it’s finished, it’s wasted work which would have to be duplicated.)

By: Elos

Elos — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:23:45 +0000

1. Play DF windowed

2. Open up df wiki in the browser

3. Switch between them for awesome wiki help. Beats every possible ingame help hands down.

4. ???

5. PROFIT!

By: Pete

Pete — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:07:06 +0000

I’ve played and enjoyed nethack, and I couldn’t get into DF because it offers a complete blank cliff of a learning curve. There is basically no in-game advice at all on what to press and I couldn’t be bothered with exhaustive search.

The elitists have also put me off bothering to try it again.

By: Stromko

Stromko — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:39:30 +0000

There might be a better interface at some point, the game just has too far to go in development for Toady to bother with it now. Why figure out a more ‘modern’ interface when it has to get scrapped if it turns out unsuitable for controlling armies or multiple adventurers? Those are two things that aren’t in the game right now, but are definitely planned.

I’m not totally happy with the interface myself, but I can’t see any easy fixes. It was always worth it to me though because I really want the gameplay it offers.

If it’s not totally worth it for you to put up with the interface and get used to it, then you don’t have to play it. Not everyone in the world is going to think it’s the best game ever made, so be it.

(edit) Oh yeah, constructions in general do need to be easier to do. I’m quite sure it’s planned to be fixed.

I like the graphics myself, I’ve tried a few tile sets but they always ended up just being confusing. I like being able to look at a pool and know exactly how deep it is (even if it’s constantly flickering 6’s and 7’s — I find it oddly hypnotic), and to be able to tell the difference between a wall and a bridge, details that are often spoiled by tilesets.

I think the whole thing is showing a trend towards being more and more moddable, so it’s going to look better and control better eventually even if Toady never gets around to it. There’s already been user utilities like Dwarf Foreman, though most utilities aren’t version-independent right now and so most aren’t available on the newest version. I personally couldn’t live without the Regional Prospector, which works on all versions thus far.

By: Hunty

Hunty — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:38:39 +0000

Seconded. I really like Dwarf Fortress in a lot of ways (Boatmurdered is the tip of the iceberg, funny stories-wise), and that includes the graphics – plenty is left to the imagination, and I think that’s pretty effective.

What I don’t think is effective is having to lay a road in 8×8 increments across a 750×750 map. Or press four different hot keys to change a dwarf’s work assignments, and do that individually for every dwarf. Or, whilst we’re on the subject of keylooking, not being able to use my mouse, ever. All of which is not to say that I don’t enjoy it, or think it’s brilliantly ambitious – just to say that angry internet man #86 proclaiming that my not wanting to spend the rest of my natural life laying a wall down around my fortress makes me an idiot perhaps needs to examine his attitude a touch.