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	<title>Comments on: Iron Lore (RIP)</title>
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		<title>By: Gurrah</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-28013</link>
		<dc:creator>Gurrah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 04:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-28013</guid>
		<description>WHAT?! I just pre-ordered Soulstorm today. Usually I don&#039;t buy expansion titles from thrid party developers, but the demo was brilliant and, well, it was from Iron Lore. Relic and ILE working together was more or less a must buy for me, considering those two developers made QUALITY games and now the latter is closing shop?! I&#039;ll give Briosafreaks link a go after I&#039;ve digested the news...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHAT?! I just pre-ordered Soulstorm today. Usually I don&#8217;t buy expansion titles from thrid party developers, but the demo was brilliant and, well, it was from Iron Lore. Relic and ILE working together was more or less a must buy for me, considering those two developers made QUALITY games and now the latter is closing shop?! I&#8217;ll give Briosafreaks link a go after I&#8217;ve digested the news&#8230;
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		<title>By: Andrew Armstrong</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-28012</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 04:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-28012</guid>
		<description>It&#039;ll be interesting when steam picks up more, what consumer watchdogs will say about people not being able to sell on the software they presumably &quot;brought&quot; (although every software company says &quot;licensed&quot;). That&#039;s always the issue with online-only &quot;services&quot; remember, a boxed copy can be passed on.

Also; if steam goes down, you&#039;ll be losing quite a bit of stuff. GameTap has had this problem, with games going &quot;off the catalogue&quot; making it impossible to play them even if you paid for them.

Not to say it doesn&#039;t stop piracy/remove CD checks or whatever. There are ups and downs, not all ups ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;ll be interesting when steam picks up more, what consumer watchdogs will say about people not being able to sell on the software they presumably &#8220;brought&#8221; (although every software company says &#8220;licensed&#8221;). That&#8217;s always the issue with online-only &#8220;services&#8221; remember, a boxed copy can be passed on.</p>
<p>Also; if steam goes down, you&#8217;ll be losing quite a bit of stuff. GameTap has had this problem, with games going &#8220;off the catalogue&#8221; making it impossible to play them even if you paid for them.</p>
<p>Not to say it doesn&#8217;t stop piracy/remove CD checks or whatever. There are ups and downs, not all ups ;)
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		<title>By: Frymaster</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27937</link>
		<dc:creator>Frymaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-27937</guid>
		<description>&quot;(B) Stealth DRM still in place made pirates think the product was faulty, and not the crack.&quot;

The people in that forum made the same mistake.  He didn&#039;t say &quot;The copy protection detected the piracy and initiated a game crash&quot;, he said the copy protection system had been gutted by the crack, and thus crashed when it was used.  Presumably whoever cracked it had checked the game started up, but hadn&#039;t bothered with additional testing.

I can&#039;t think of any online game that ISN&#039;T using DRM techniques (via online account or similar) because they don&#039;t have to rely on copy protection and client-side-only checks.  And more power to them, if only because tying a person to a unique ID makes banning idiots easier.

The best system out there at the moment is Steam, simply because
  a) It removes the annoyance of needing the CD in the drive
  b) You can install over the internet, meaning you can throw away the CD and you actually get value added from it
  c) You can have the content encrypted / only distribute the exe at the last second, meaning no zero-hour (or minus hour) cracks

It&#039;ll be interesting to see how c) plays out with their new Steamworks system (the first game to use that - audiosurf - probably got most of their sales from steam download ANYWAY so the difference wasn&#039;t there) as imo point b) is the major reason I&#039;ll buy games on Steam in preference to at retail, even if it costs me a tenner more</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;(B) Stealth DRM still in place made pirates think the product was faulty, and not the crack.&#8221;</p>
<p>The people in that forum made the same mistake.  He didn&#8217;t say &#8220;The copy protection detected the piracy and initiated a game crash&#8221;, he said the copy protection system had been gutted by the crack, and thus crashed when it was used.  Presumably whoever cracked it had checked the game started up, but hadn&#8217;t bothered with additional testing.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t think of any online game that ISN&#8217;T using DRM techniques (via online account or similar) because they don&#8217;t have to rely on copy protection and client-side-only checks.  And more power to them, if only because tying a person to a unique ID makes banning idiots easier.</p>
<p>The best system out there at the moment is Steam, simply because<br />
  a) It removes the annoyance of needing the CD in the drive<br />
  b) You can install over the internet, meaning you can throw away the CD and you actually get value added from it<br />
  c) You can have the content encrypted / only distribute the exe at the last second, meaning no zero-hour (or minus hour) cracks</p>
<p>It&#8217;ll be interesting to see how c) plays out with their new Steamworks system (the first game to use that &#8211; audiosurf &#8211; probably got most of their sales from steam download ANYWAY so the difference wasn&#8217;t there) as imo point b) is the major reason I&#8217;ll buy games on Steam in preference to at retail, even if it costs me a tenner more
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		<title>By: Briosafreak</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27931</link>
		<dc:creator>Briosafreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-27931</guid>
		<description>teo I had already left the link above</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>teo I had already left the link above
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		<title>By: teo</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27864</link>
		<dc:creator>teo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-27864</guid>
		<description>One of the former employees speaks out
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the former employees speaks out<br />
<a href="http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663" rel="nofollow">http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663</a>
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		<title>By: Dinger</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27842</link>
		<dc:creator>Dinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-27842</guid>
		<description>A yes, those Intel cards again. Even Microsoft seems to be willing to &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/library/vistaone3046.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;screw itself&lt;/a&gt; to help out Intel&#039;s bottom line.
I read the post complaining of piracy on TQ. I&#039;m sorry to see another developer close shop, but that was a classic case of misapportioned blame.

Let&#039;s see:
(A) Game pirated before retail release.
(B) Stealth DRM still in place made pirates think the product was faulty, and not the crack. 
(C) The overwhelming majority (upwards of 90%) of copies were pirated.
(D) PC is a configuration nightmare, and there&#039;s a lot of &quot;gaming PCs&quot; with crappy components.

(D) is perfectly valid, and much of the blame goes to Microsoft (see the Intel 915 affair, above) for caving to the demands of manufacturers.

(A) and (B) are extremely questionable. Built-in DRM is powerful poison, especially considering (D). False positives have always caused huge problems, and DRM can only slow an attacker. When the game runs, it is open to the scrutiny of those who would crack it. So you try to obfuscate DRM: put the obvious traps in plain sight, have a couple of secondary ones behind the treeline, and a few surprises that nobody will find. Yes, if you flag the occurrences as DRM-related, it gives the cracker another clue about what&#039;s happening. But if you don&#039;t, you&#039;ve just wrecked your code.
In a sense, designing copy protection is an inverse QA job: you insert various show-stoppers and nuisances with a sophistication necessary to discourage those who find them all. If someone does find them all, then they have a superior, &quot;debugged&quot; version of the game.

Stealth DRM bit them in the butt. So did piracy. One question: with over 90% of the players &lt;i&gt;downloading&lt;/i&gt; the game, why make the game available only via retail?

Piracy is a problem, but when your method of distribution differs greatly from how most people get your product, and when you fail to make clear how your (legitimate) product is superior(if in fact it is) to (illegitimate) copies, beyond a fuzzy feeling of &quot;being right with the law&quot;, you make that problem worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A yes, those Intel cards again. Even Microsoft seems to be willing to <a href="http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/library/vistaone3046.pdf" rel="nofollow">screw itself</a> to help out Intel&#8217;s bottom line.<br />
I read the post complaining of piracy on TQ. I&#8217;m sorry to see another developer close shop, but that was a classic case of misapportioned blame.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see:<br />
(A) Game pirated before retail release.<br />
(B) Stealth DRM still in place made pirates think the product was faulty, and not the crack.<br />
(C) The overwhelming majority (upwards of 90%) of copies were pirated.<br />
(D) PC is a configuration nightmare, and there&#8217;s a lot of &#8220;gaming PCs&#8221; with crappy components.</p>
<p>(D) is perfectly valid, and much of the blame goes to Microsoft (see the Intel 915 affair, above) for caving to the demands of manufacturers.</p>
<p>(A) and (B) are extremely questionable. Built-in DRM is powerful poison, especially considering (D). False positives have always caused huge problems, and DRM can only slow an attacker. When the game runs, it is open to the scrutiny of those who would crack it. So you try to obfuscate DRM: put the obvious traps in plain sight, have a couple of secondary ones behind the treeline, and a few surprises that nobody will find. Yes, if you flag the occurrences as DRM-related, it gives the cracker another clue about what&#8217;s happening. But if you don&#8217;t, you&#8217;ve just wrecked your code.<br />
In a sense, designing copy protection is an inverse QA job: you insert various show-stoppers and nuisances with a sophistication necessary to discourage those who find them all. If someone does find them all, then they have a superior, &#8220;debugged&#8221; version of the game.</p>
<p>Stealth DRM bit them in the butt. So did piracy. One question: with over 90% of the players <i>downloading</i> the game, why make the game available only via retail?</p>
<p>Piracy is a problem, but when your method of distribution differs greatly from how most people get your product, and when you fail to make clear how your (legitimate) product is superior(if in fact it is) to (illegitimate) copies, beyond a fuzzy feeling of &#8220;being right with the law&#8221;, you make that problem worse.
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		<title>By: cliffski</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27834</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>money talks and bullshit walks. If they had a more stable hardware target and no piracy they would easily still be in business.
Intel cards are the bane of all developers, They should have a &#039;useless for gaming&#039; sticker on the side of PCs with intel video.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>money talks and bullshit walks. If they had a more stable hardware target and no piracy they would easily still be in business.<br />
Intel cards are the bane of all developers, They should have a &#8216;useless for gaming&#8217; sticker on the side of PCs with intel video.
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		<title>By: Lunaran</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27797</link>
		<dc:creator>Lunaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 01:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-27797</guid>
		<description>Been there.  I had a happy ending, but at the time there&#039;s such a sick feeling that comes with the news.

There&#039;s always places that are on the rise at the same time that good places like this are on the fall, though, so I&#039;m confident every last one of those poor guys is going to wind up somewhere good.  It&#039;s too bad they won&#039;t get to work as a team again though.

As a friend put it, &quot;the studios that deserve to go under never do.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been there.  I had a happy ending, but at the time there&#8217;s such a sick feeling that comes with the news.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s always places that are on the rise at the same time that good places like this are on the fall, though, so I&#8217;m confident every last one of those poor guys is going to wind up somewhere good.  It&#8217;s too bad they won&#8217;t get to work as a team again though.</p>
<p>As a friend put it, &#8220;the studios that deserve to go under never do.&#8221;
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		<title>By: UncleLou</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27793</link>
		<dc:creator>UncleLou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-27793</guid>
		<description>@Briosafreak

thanks for the link, a good read (as depressing as it is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Briosafreak</p>
<p>thanks for the link, a good read (as depressing as it is).
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		<title>By: Taxman</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27789</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1219#comment-27789</guid>
		<description>Pidesco less of a bane then people who actually pirate it regardless. Dumping anti copy protections mechanisms is often touted but it changes little even Stardocks games were plastered all over warez sites often with glee that there was no protection, it is an intensely depressing sight.

[What&#039;s weird is that often I have observed that the pirates are also usually very vocal PC gaming cheerleaders, precisely because they can pirate the games. It seems the irony is lost on them helping to undermine the platform they cherish]

Also the other issues are just a big of a factor when it comes to Q/A and support, Bethesda had similar problems to them with rare &amp; obscure hardware/software conflicting with Oblivion. The vast increase of complexity in games is proving to be increasingly troublesome for devs &amp; consumers.

Anyway sad to see Iron Lore go : (</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pidesco less of a bane then people who actually pirate it regardless. Dumping anti copy protections mechanisms is often touted but it changes little even Stardocks games were plastered all over warez sites often with glee that there was no protection, it is an intensely depressing sight.</p>
<p>[What's weird is that often I have observed that the pirates are also usually very vocal PC gaming cheerleaders, precisely because they can pirate the games. It seems the irony is lost on them helping to undermine the platform they cherish]</p>
<p>Also the other issues are just a big of a factor when it comes to Q/A and support, Bethesda had similar problems to them with rare &amp; obscure hardware/software conflicting with Oblivion. The vast increase of complexity in games is proving to be increasingly troublesome for devs &amp; consumers.</p>
<p>Anyway sad to see Iron Lore go : (
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		<title>By: Pidesco</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27787</link>
		<dc:creator>Pidesco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The problem they had with copy protection and piracy really highlights why copy protection is one of the banes of PC gaming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem they had with copy protection and piracy really highlights why copy protection is one of the banes of PC gaming.
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		<title>By: Briosafreak</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/02/28/iron-lore-rip/#comment-27779</link>
		<dc:creator>Briosafreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this is a must read then&lt;/a&gt; to understand a bit more what went wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well <a href="http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663" rel="nofollow">this is a must read then</a> to understand a bit more what went wrong.
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