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	<title>Comments on: Suddenly Struck</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/</link>
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		<title>By: sudden strike ii - StartTags.com</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-409315</link>
		<dc:creator>sudden strike ii - StartTags.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-409315</guid>
		<description>[...] come to their mind. All of sudden this word is on everyone&#039;s tongue. Automation..., Automation...Suddenly Struck &#124; Rock, Paper, ShotgunSeemingly motivated by nothing in particular, CDV have circulated some new screenshots of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] come to their mind. All of sudden this word is on everyone&#39;s tongue. Automation&#8230;, Automation&#8230;Suddenly Struck | Rock, Paper, ShotgunSeemingly motivated by nothing in particular, CDV have circulated some new screenshots of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LongFred</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31901</link>
		<dc:creator>LongFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31901</guid>
		<description>One clarification: I didn&#039;t really use Sandbox in that way, I was rather thinking about those Weekend Napoleons with their tin figures, Sandbox Strategists.

And to contribute something more interesting: The appealing thing about this rather &#039;neutral&#039; model style is probably similar to LEGO environments. The less people crap their artistic and stylistic vision all over the place, the more you are free to develop your own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One clarification: I didn&#8217;t really use Sandbox in that way, I was rather thinking about those Weekend Napoleons with their tin figures, Sandbox Strategists.</p>
<p>And to contribute something more interesting: The appealing thing about this rather &#8216;neutral&#8217; model style is probably similar to LEGO environments. The less people crap their artistic and stylistic vision all over the place, the more you are free to develop your own.</p>
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		<title>By: Dinger</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31864</link>
		<dc:creator>Dinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31864</guid>
		<description>Okay Jim, let&#039;s dance.

&lt;blockquote&gt;There’s something essentially gamey about being an eye in the sky over some intricately constructed terrain...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not even sure a &quot;God&#039;s eye&quot; or &quot;Isometric&quot; perspective is necessary. In fact, let&#039;s abuse two overused and inapt metaphors: Sandbox and antfarming.

Sandbox: developer types like to use &quot;Sandbox&quot; (hell, it&#039;s been used in this thread) to evoke the idea of a game where a player decides what to do and what the rules are. What they mean, though, is a game type that has multiple types and magnitudes of sub-games for the user to play. So, in practice, if a &quot;regular&quot; videogame were like a miniature golf course or a hedge maze, a &quot;sandbox&quot; game would be like an amusement park -- lots of little rides, most of them suitable for small children who don&#039;t mind waiting in line to repeat the same inane spinning teacup bit fifteen times until they get it right.
Oh yeah, one other thing: not even the Sims gets called &quot;Dollhouse&quot;. Basically, the two ideas are the same, only the actors are gendered differently.

&quot;Antfarming&quot; is a great term to use for the classic developer&#039;s mistake of falling in love with a complex design that doesn&#039;t really do anything for the player other than make a dull game confusing as well.

But what about the real deal? Has anyone actually looked at what happens in a sandbox?
Sandboxes are where cats shit and children play, in that order. Kids play with toys, plural. After about the age of two, the fun isn&#039;t in making that yellow truck move around the sandbox; it&#039;s in making that truck deliver a load of catshit from Witch Mountain all the way down to the semi-fertile farms of Booger Gulch. If there&#039;s more than one kid, the toys and the choice of game will be a manner of negotiating and reinforcing the social order: now&#039;s when we set your Luke Skywalker action figure on fire and bury him behind the ashy remains of his Tatooine lollipop-stick factory, while my SpongeBob doll dances on his grave shouting obscenities.

Sandbox play does not involve kids taking single toys as their avatars and exploring the sandbox with them. It&#039;s kids staring down at toys and establishing relationships between them, the environment and each other. That&#039;s what makes train sets cool, model villages, RTSs and Combat Mission.

Ant Farms? Well, I just brought them up because they&#039;re best viewed from a horizontal-perspective. Part of the surprise of ant farms comes from the fact that, while we often see across a flat surface, the behavior seems much more complex when an anthill can be seen from the side.

So top-down or isometric isn&#039;t necessary; it&#039;s just how we best see the relationships between the terrain and the agents.

Miniature models and their virtual counterparts probably share another common bond. Some video game artists seem particularly fond of assembling them, usually in the proximity of a 3D scanner.

SS3 + Combat Mission = a serious drop in worldwide productivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay Jim, let&#8217;s dance.</p>
<blockquote><p>There’s something essentially gamey about being an eye in the sky over some intricately constructed terrain&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not even sure a &#8220;God&#8217;s eye&#8221; or &#8220;Isometric&#8221; perspective is necessary. In fact, let&#8217;s abuse two overused and inapt metaphors: Sandbox and antfarming.</p>
<p>Sandbox: developer types like to use &#8220;Sandbox&#8221; (hell, it&#8217;s been used in this thread) to evoke the idea of a game where a player decides what to do and what the rules are. What they mean, though, is a game type that has multiple types and magnitudes of sub-games for the user to play. So, in practice, if a &#8220;regular&#8221; videogame were like a miniature golf course or a hedge maze, a &#8220;sandbox&#8221; game would be like an amusement park &#8212; lots of little rides, most of them suitable for small children who don&#8217;t mind waiting in line to repeat the same inane spinning teacup bit fifteen times until they get it right.<br />
Oh yeah, one other thing: not even the Sims gets called &#8220;Dollhouse&#8221;. Basically, the two ideas are the same, only the actors are gendered differently.</p>
<p>&#8220;Antfarming&#8221; is a great term to use for the classic developer&#8217;s mistake of falling in love with a complex design that doesn&#8217;t really do anything for the player other than make a dull game confusing as well.</p>
<p>But what about the real deal? Has anyone actually looked at what happens in a sandbox?<br />
Sandboxes are where cats shit and children play, in that order. Kids play with toys, plural. After about the age of two, the fun isn&#8217;t in making that yellow truck move around the sandbox; it&#8217;s in making that truck deliver a load of catshit from Witch Mountain all the way down to the semi-fertile farms of Booger Gulch. If there&#8217;s more than one kid, the toys and the choice of game will be a manner of negotiating and reinforcing the social order: now&#8217;s when we set your Luke Skywalker action figure on fire and bury him behind the ashy remains of his Tatooine lollipop-stick factory, while my SpongeBob doll dances on his grave shouting obscenities.</p>
<p>Sandbox play does not involve kids taking single toys as their avatars and exploring the sandbox with them. It&#8217;s kids staring down at toys and establishing relationships between them, the environment and each other. That&#8217;s what makes train sets cool, model villages, RTSs and Combat Mission.</p>
<p>Ant Farms? Well, I just brought them up because they&#8217;re best viewed from a horizontal-perspective. Part of the surprise of ant farms comes from the fact that, while we often see across a flat surface, the behavior seems much more complex when an anthill can be seen from the side.</p>
<p>So top-down or isometric isn&#8217;t necessary; it&#8217;s just how we best see the relationships between the terrain and the agents.</p>
<p>Miniature models and their virtual counterparts probably share another common bond. Some video game artists seem particularly fond of assembling them, usually in the proximity of a 3D scanner.</p>
<p>SS3 + Combat Mission = a serious drop in worldwide productivity.</p>
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		<title>By: Vic Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31853</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31853</guid>
		<description>It does look beautiful.  What if you took the Sudden Strike 3 engine and put the Close Combat mechanics into it?  Or even the Combat Mission mechanics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does look beautiful.  What if you took the Sudden Strike 3 engine and put the Close Combat mechanics into it?  Or even the Combat Mission mechanics.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Rossignol</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31820</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Rossignol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31820</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s another way of writing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s another way of writing?</p>
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		<title>By: Radiant</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31818</link>
		<dc:creator>Radiant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31818</guid>
		<description>Let this forever be known as the article Rossignol wrote whilst completely baked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let this forever be known as the article Rossignol wrote whilst completely baked.</p>
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		<title>By: cliffski</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31804</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31804</guid>
		<description>indeed. I just gave it a try. I should try the tutorial next time. And it seems caps lock toggles off all the GUI crap.
Didn&#039;t seem to have any idea what I was doing and seemed to  be impossible to keep an eye on everything, but that&#039;s skipping he tutorial for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>indeed. I just gave it a try. I should try the tutorial next time. And it seems caps lock toggles off all the GUI crap.<br />
Didn&#8217;t seem to have any idea what I was doing and seemed to  be impossible to keep an eye on everything, but that&#8217;s skipping he tutorial for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Rossignol</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31784</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Rossignol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31784</guid>
		<description>*points at demo link*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*points at demo link*</p>
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		<title>By: cliffski</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31782</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31782</guid>
		<description>I really like the look of this, but there is NO interface GUI stuff in that video at all. I won&#039;t buy a game like this without a demo, because I find that although the engine looks good, in practice I am just commanding a group of glowing neon circles and health bars, completely overshadowing the actual visuals.
Is that the case with this one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really like the look of this, but there is NO interface GUI stuff in that video at all. I won&#8217;t buy a game like this without a demo, because I find that although the engine looks good, in practice I am just commanding a group of glowing neon circles and health bars, completely overshadowing the actual visuals.<br />
Is that the case with this one?</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31779</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31779</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; It’s a little like videogames are preserving, even exemplifying, the kind of impulses towards miniaturization and realistic representation that is otherwise only found in model railways or the peculiarly idealised exploit of constructing miniature villages. I think it’s one of the things I respect most about RTS games generally: their unusual perspective, and the idea of designing a world that is intended to be seen from above. There’s something essentially gamey about being an eye in the sky over some intricately constructed terrain, and having partial but far-reaching influence over events, rather than simply being in there, in first-person, or flying over it all in a polygonal aeroplane&lt;/i&gt;

Sorry for the long quote, just wanted to make clear to what I am referring - I&#039;ve thought this for a while now, how exactly that trend seems to get less and less, and is only really left in RTS games. I for one miss top-down/isometric games in other genres a lot, and it&#039;s a particular shame that now that 3D is finally far enough to be pretty much as detailed as 2D was (as demonstrated by Titan Quest, for example), while having lots of other advantages, the perspective, formerly especially used in RPG games, is almost dead.

Sometimes after playing an FPS or Third-person game, I long more for a change of perspective than a change of game or genre.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> It’s a little like videogames are preserving, even exemplifying, the kind of impulses towards miniaturization and realistic representation that is otherwise only found in model railways or the peculiarly idealised exploit of constructing miniature villages. I think it’s one of the things I respect most about RTS games generally: their unusual perspective, and the idea of designing a world that is intended to be seen from above. There’s something essentially gamey about being an eye in the sky over some intricately constructed terrain, and having partial but far-reaching influence over events, rather than simply being in there, in first-person, or flying over it all in a polygonal aeroplane</i></p>
<p>Sorry for the long quote, just wanted to make clear to what I am referring &#8211; I&#8217;ve thought this for a while now, how exactly that trend seems to get less and less, and is only really left in RTS games. I for one miss top-down/isometric games in other genres a lot, and it&#8217;s a particular shame that now that 3D is finally far enough to be pretty much as detailed as 2D was (as demonstrated by Titan Quest, for example), while having lots of other advantages, the perspective, formerly especially used in RPG games, is almost dead.</p>
<p>Sometimes after playing an FPS or Third-person game, I long more for a change of perspective than a change of game or genre.</p>
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		<title>By: LongFred</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31773</link>
		<dc:creator>LongFred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31773</guid>
		<description>Ahh, I just recalled the feeling of guessing correctly and ninjaing the enemy&#039;s Artillery position with a commando unit that scaled some ridge impassable to vehicles and advanced behind the cover of trees, and then enjoying the high pitched screams of your enemy from the other side of the room like others might enjoy a nice ice coffee in a particularly hot summer.

Another thing to like about Sudden Strike was that these games actually had a Russian side from the start. Nowadays, it seems to be pretty impossible to get a WW2 RTS that involves more than Germany and the USA (and maybe the British)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, I just recalled the feeling of guessing correctly and ninjaing the enemy&#8217;s Artillery position with a commando unit that scaled some ridge impassable to vehicles and advanced behind the cover of trees, and then enjoying the high pitched screams of your enemy from the other side of the room like others might enjoy a nice ice coffee in a particularly hot summer.</p>
<p>Another thing to like about Sudden Strike was that these games actually had a Russian side from the start. Nowadays, it seems to be pretty impossible to get a WW2 RTS that involves more than Germany and the USA (and maybe the British)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/03/17/suddenly-struck/comment-page-1/#comment-31769</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1340#comment-31769</guid>
		<description>Sudden Strike: Big in Germany.

Also inexpressibly boring. Loathe those games and I&#039;m a big RTS fan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sudden Strike: Big in Germany.</p>
<p>Also inexpressibly boring. Loathe those games and I&#8217;m a big RTS fan.</p>
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