By Kieron Gillen on April 17th, 2008 at 8:13 pm.
A little late to this, considering we’re a PC site and it’s our favourite PC shooter since we started doing this thing, but I’ve been having a quiet think about the forthcoming new content for Team Fortress 2. Its contents have been finalised, with Shacknews having my personal favourite coverage. In brief, there’s three unlockable weapons weapons for the medic, a new map and game-mode and thirty six (Count ‘em!) medic achievements. Robin Walker’s talked about their commitment for doing similar expansions for the other classes. And the extra content is lovely and all but…
I dunno. I have reservations.
Which partially I feel bad about because – y’know – fanboy sense of entitlement is one of the most sickening things in the world, and this is free shiny stuff. And partially I think it perhaps shows a lack of faith in a team who’ve shown they, more than anyone else who released an online FPS game in the last year, know what they’re doing. They’re not unproven people, I should wait the couple of weeks then give it a crack rather than having little thinks. And also, I’m mainly a medic anyway, so this is extra toys for yours truly. But…
Okay, the new mode – one team pushing along a bomb-filled cart while the other tries to stop them from doing that – sounds splendid fun. More achievements are good, especially ones which are clearly trying to encourage good play. For example, number seven, Play Doctor: In a team with no medics, be first to switch to medic after a teammate calls “Medic!” and then heal 500 health. It’s a cute way to try and encourage people to do the necessary without needing a Messiah Complex.
But the unlockable weapons. For those who don’t follow the link, there’s three – the Blutsaugher, Critzcrieg and Ubersaw unlocked when you read 12, 24 and 36 achievements respectively. The Blutsaugh is a primarily defensive version of the syringe gun which adds to your health when it hurts someone else, at the expense of the (incredibly valuable for the medic) critical hits. The Critzcrieg is an alternative ubercharge, which rather than making its target invulnerable, increases its targets chance to deliver critical hits to 100%. That means you can kill a lot of people… but you’re still vulnerable. Finally, if you get them all, it’s an Ubersaw which is slower than the standard saw, but a single hit will increase the ubercharge by a hefty 25%. Its offensive possibilities are kind of obvious. And brutal. And possibly very humiliating for the opposition.
My problems are threefold – one which kind of applies to any FPS that does the unlocking thing, and the second which applies specifically to Team Fortress 2 and the third which will probably be the result of the first two.
The first is that unlocking in a skill-based game rises my purist hackles. If I found myself playing Kasparov in chess, I’d like him to beat me because he’s Kasparov, not because he has a piece I’m not allowed to use. It doesn’t matter if that piece is balanced to what mine is – its just that the game is no longer symmetrical.
(Which isn’t to say than a non-symmetrical game can’t be fun – e.g. Most RTS – but a game which has tiny bits of non-symmetry built on the top also lacks the courage of its convictions)
Secondly, Team Fortress 2 has been a poster child for clarity in games. We’ve spent much of our existence linking to pieces where we’ve seen Valve talk about how they studied the silhouettes to make sure everyone was identifiable, to make the individual pieces of the game clear. The problem now is when you add extra powers, which aren’t necessarily available to you, that becomes foggy. I see a medic now, I know what they can do and how to act. I see a medic in a few weeks time, I have a load of possibilities what they can do. I just don’t know until they display these abilities, and then it’s too late.
The third point is the direction it takes the game. There was something in Team Fortress 2 which attracted an impressively wide section of the PC gaming community – and I suspect it’s the combination of its clarity and purity. We could see how the game worked – the characters were iconic in look (Hey! Cute!) and action (He is a soldier – so I’ll know he’ll be doing this sort of thing). It was welcoming in a way which many FPS increasingly weren’t.
Conversely, this takes it back in the direction from whence it came. This is catering specifically to the player who only plays Team Fortress 2, who they’re trying to retain the interest of. Because neither of the two problems I describe above really matter if you’re playing the game that much – you’ll get all the unlocks soon enough, making the game symmetrical with your peers (but above newcomers) and the extra variety and unpredictability adds spice. And when they’ve gone through all the classes, the game may even have as many toys as the original Team Fortress… which would leave Valve in the somewhat amusing position of disappointing a new hardcore they’ve nurtured when they strip it back for Team Fortress 3. This is a move which sacrifices a sliver of its appeal to more casual players for the true devotees. It takes it a half-step towards all those gentrified gaming communities which may as well be on the boom on its own private internet for how accessible they are to newcomers.
In other words, yes, my problem with the unlocks is that it makes Team Fortress 2 more like everyone else.
17/04/2008 at 20:19 Jim Rossignol says:
I think you might have a point with all this. Quake 3 appealed to me because it was minimalist. As soon as non-realist FPS ramps up the complexity I do start to lose interest, or at least play the simplest class.
I’d rather have incredible new maps than unlocks.
17/04/2008 at 20:21 Larington says:
That said, will any of the casual players really notice, or care? I’m not so sure, perhaps we’re guilty of over analysis?
Thinking about it though, Planetside (Here I go again) would’ve been a lot more successful in the long term if instead of going for core combat it just created new continents semi regular and had a system of cycling the neutral continents in/out so theres never more than the original number of continents. But thats just me.
17/04/2008 at 20:37 Jim Rossignol says:
No, don’t derail to a “what if Planetside” debate! We can do another one of those next week.
17/04/2008 at 20:39 Sebastian says:
TF2 needs the unlocks. Go to onlinegamingzeitgeist.com, the player count is plunging. Simply adding new maps won’t help there in therms of long-time motivation, they have to bring new elements into the game. While this “simple” style of play might be appealing in theory or on a philosophical level it isn’t in reality.
The new weapons are not overpowered, they rather expand the concept of “making decisions” which defines TF2.
17/04/2008 at 20:44 Ben Hazell says:
Mmm, I’m wary.
Despite the perks I’m never going to play medic much whatever they do. Reason – beam weapons arn’t fun. Regardless of if it’s healing or hurting, a guided beam is no fun to point, it doesn’t test me.
Part of the joy for me in FPS games is accuracy, precision – because that’s what empowers me; be it a sniper headshot or twitching out a shotgun hit then they cross my sights or knowing where to place a rocket. This is especially true of such a fast, kinetic game.
But the medic: they can buff it as much as they like, but I won’t play because the beam is no fun.
Now a healing shotgun… that I might use…
17/04/2008 at 20:49 Chris R says:
I think it’ll be fine though Kieron. You do make some damn good points, and they are valid, but we have to trust Valve to know what they’re doing.
In the end it might not be as bad as you say. I’m sure they’ll make all the new weapons look very unique so that you can tell just by a glance that the medic has a different weapon than usual. Valve wouldn’t mess it up too bad, and if the whole community hated the new unlocks, I’m sure there would be steps taken to fix things. Have faith!! ;)
17/04/2008 at 20:51 Alex says:
@ Sebastian
If it needs the new elements provided by the unlocks, why not just add them without needing them to be unlocked? Exactly the same result for people who would have unlocked them anyway (unless they really really like having a bigger weapon than people new to the game, or really really enjoy the process of being given it), and a much better result for people who wouldn’t have bothered.
17/04/2008 at 20:52 Scandalon says:
Larington:
Yes, “casual” players will care. Or at least be confused. Consider someone that’s been playing for a few weeks (not every night), is getting comfortable with it, maybe he plays soldier, maybe sniper…he’s (or she’s) got a good handle on how medics work. He doesn’t read the news sites, maybe saw that TF2 updated, maybe not. Next he finds a medic isolated from his group, but this medic has the new leech gun (sucking our poor, abused player’s health)…now he dies rather quickly, knowing he tossed 3 rocket (or whatever) into the medic’s head…the game rules have now changed, and he doesn’t know why…
The whole “culture” of TF2 is to make things (mostly) self explanatory (“Headshot? What’s that? Oh, that guy they just zoomed in on…he’s got a giant sniper rifle!”)
17/04/2008 at 20:52 derFeef says:
I think its a brave move from Valve. I have high hopes to the unlocks, even if I dont play the medic that often but there other classes too and unlocks are coming to all of them.
I dont want to compare it to the battlefield series because TF2 has much more depth and the unlocks are more then just stat updates for the weapons – TF2 is attractive for the players because its not “military” or “scifi” – its just pure fun and different. You can enjoy it even if you give a shit for the team (I dont do that!) and that cant be said about battlefield or cod4.
So the unlocks are there for the gamers who knows they are there and they will aim for them, thats for sure – but you can enjoy the game without them, I think.
Apologies for bad my bad english ;)
17/04/2008 at 20:56 derFeef says:
@ Scandalon
There is no leech gun – the syringe gun is still shooting syringes, but give the user 3 heal per hit. So the victim still knows he was hit by a hurting weapon.
17/04/2008 at 20:56 Dinger says:
I agree with everything but the notion that it’s a bad idea. Yeah, TF2′s genius was that it was accessible to everyone, and I know you guys were crowing about how “in six months, it’ll still be there.”
In the videogame world, nothing is still there in six months. Heck, if Rossignol left Eve for three months (assuming he plays that game. I have no idea, really), he’d come back to an entirely foreign land.
By saying TF2 captured the accessibility and fun that a MP shooter needed to have, you were only capturing part of the genius.
Look: TFC had a steady playerbase clear through to the release of TF2. That wouldn’t be noteworthy if it werent’ for the fact there were nearly ten years between the two. Honestly, when was the last time one of you guys played TFC?
Now, think back to what that experience was. Riding the long tail is different from selling the big splash. The fact is, you use the big splash to build your community, and, over time, it starts to feed on itself. They never get bigger than the first weeks after release (okay, I’m sure there are tons of counterexamples. My point is there though, somewhere). At some point, you need to recognize that your playerbase has become the hardcore grouped around things other than just the game, like the ‘community’ (a word up there with patria in my book of “terms used to convince other people to die for your cause.”), or madness, or blind dedication.
The hard thing is for history: how do we, ten years from now, teach the ideas behind TF2, and how it was “rolled out” along the release/community curve, if all we’ve got is the late “hardcore” version (if that)?
17/04/2008 at 20:58 scopie says:
I just hope they get the new achievements/weapons out the door for the other classes as well within a reasonable time frame. Which, for Valve, is about 2 years.
17/04/2008 at 21:01 Man Raised By Puffins says:
Heh, I was just about to e-mail asking where the TF2 love was.
@Kieron: Now that the unlocks have been revealed and my doubts about their balancing assuaged I’d say that my last niggle with them is, as you point out, that they’re monkeying with the original streamlined concept. I’m not sure it’ll be too big a problem with this batch of unlocks though, as the very basic responses to a Medic (run from his uber, laugh at his puny syringe gun etc.) shouldn’t change too much. Whether that will hold for the rest of the unlockables remains to be seen however.
Also, regarding “you’ll get all the unlocks soon enough”, I’ve worked out that I’ll need ~170 hours more Medicalising (on top of the 80 or so I’ve done already) to attain the 10 million heal point target.
17/04/2008 at 21:11 sana says:
Valve could bypass this whole confusion thing entirely by making some kind of preview video shortly describing the new medic unlockables.
Then they could make that video play the first time the player joins a server after the patch. You know, like a mix of the TF2 map explanation videos and the BioShock plasmid ads.
Also, it’s “Blutsauger”, meaning “blood sucker” in German! No “h” after the “g”!
17/04/2008 at 21:13 Andrew Simpson says:
Yeh, saying “soon enough” is a bit optimistic. Some of those achievements look nigh-on impossible to get!
A lot of people will get the Blutsaugher, a large fraction will get the Critzcrieg and the elite few will get the Ubersaw. Which is a shame, because the Ubersaw looks amazing.
17/04/2008 at 21:20 Sprafa says:
This is the first i’ve heard of the unlocks, and i absolutely loathe this decision, considering i used to play TF2 in short 5 minutes bursts, usually with a medic. Why ? Mostly because i enjoy playing what does become a sort of messianic guiding figure for an entire team cooperating in an FPS, and because a medic seems to me to be the easiest way to make quite a splash in any game. I consistently rank in the top 3 of any game i join, thanks just to the symbiotic relationships that’s formed between the top players and the medic. It’s easy and fun, and my continued playing is hell of a lot determined by the fact that i can do it in the shortest bursts.
This whole “hunt the achievement” unlock mode will not make me play it for any more than 5 minutes, probably turn me off completely, but i guess it will make the hardcore just a bit more hardcore
17/04/2008 at 21:22 Steve says:
My problem is that some of the achievements sound completely preposterous and either incredibly hard, or only likely achieved through luck.
“Triage: Deploy an uber-charge on a teammate less than a second before they’re hit by a critical explosive.”
“Placebo Effect: Kill 5 enemies in a single life while having your uber-charge ready, but undeployed.”
Not to mention the fact that after this comes out we’ll be seeing two to three times as many medics as we do now. Admittedly not the biggest problem in the world since there are too few medics at present, but going into a full server and seeing two dozen medics is going to get very tiresome, very fast.
17/04/2008 at 21:26 RLacey says:
Oh man… this article utterly crystallises the thoughts I’ve been vaguely having since I heard about the proposed changes.
Maybe I’m just jealous, since I know I’ll never hit half these achievements (hell, I’ve somehow managed to avoid getting the ‘World Traveller’ achievement yet). The chances of me ever killing 50 medics with a bonesaw is next to zero, anyway. But the whole idea still makes me uncomfortable. Particularly as I like the whole simplicity of the game as it currently stands.
That said, it’s only going to be the real regulars that ever get anywhere near the final weapon. But I can’t help but feel that, since they’re likely to be better players than me, giving them extra options is just cruel.
17/04/2008 at 21:38 Matu says:
The main counterargument against all the points made thus far: It’s Valve. If you could show me something they have seriously screwed up in the past, I’d be a bit concerned. Until then, we can all sleep well. Or play TF.
17/04/2008 at 21:41 Jamie says:
I like the unlocks, I think it will give me a sense of progression. If I spend a couple of hours playing TF2 I want to be rewarded.
Can’t wait for the update, does anyone have a release date for this?
Or at least an estimation?
17/04/2008 at 21:43 sana says:
Shacknews:
“The new TF2 content is scheduled to go live sometime in the next few weeks.”
17/04/2008 at 21:44 Noc says:
@Sprafa: Why should it change the way you play at all?
Part of the reason I’m NOT worried about this update is that the Medic works fine as it is. And the unlockables don’t necessarily make the medic BETTER than he was before – a Critzcrieg’d fellow would get demolished by one with a vanilla Ubercharge, the Blutsauger doesn’t really do any more damage (less, actually, without the crits), and using the Ubersaw involves an extremely risky charge into close combat with an inferior weapon. The unlockables don’t lead to a “better” Medic – rather, they open up the possibility of alternative strategies.
I also suspect that since these are replacing items, you’d have to chose them at spawn . . . so you’d have to know beforehand which version you want to use. So it won’t be like “Okay, I’m a bit low on health, time to swap to the Blutsauger.” I’m also working on the assumption that these new weapons will look noticeably different from the existing ones. So if casual players can learn to differentiate between a Demoman grenade and a mine, then they’ll be able to pick out if they’re being shot at by a needle gun or leech gun.
And I like most of the achievements, too. They look like they’re layered on top of TF2s existing, if completely unofficial, reward system; when you, Uber someone and then wade into a chokepoint and demolish all in your path, that’s already a really cool moment. The Achievements just itemize the “awesome moments,” and eventually reward you for being wicked cool.
My only reservation is that a lot of them look like they’re going to be farmed . . . but there’s no avoiding that, since TF2 doesn’t have a “Ranked Matches” system like X-Box Live. And since the unlockes are balanced enough that the fellow with the Ubersaw isn’t going to unequivocally kick everyone’s ass, I don’t think it’ll hurt too much.
17/04/2008 at 21:45 Stick says:
I have similar reservations. (And, yes, reservations about my own reservations.)
My main gripe is, several of the achievements just aren’t very good ideas. (“Run around killing folks with your Uber at 100%”, “Uber a Heavy and have him *punch* out 4 guys.”)
Then again, yeah. It’s Valve. It’s not too much of an effort to postpone the panicked screaming and angry letters.
17/04/2008 at 21:47 c0wb0ys7y13 says:
I can already tell that none of these unlocks are going to be allowed into compeditive play. Case in point: the blotsauger trades crits for health leeching, but comp players dont use ubers, so their is no tradeoff. Also, comp players done use crits, so the critzkrieg wouldnt make much sence (unless that would be the ONLY time that anyone could crit, and that might not be ballanced right since you cant crit the critter =P).
Everytime I see valve make a content boost it helps pub players (who arnt really people) and harms compeditive players (the people who really know how the game is played).
17/04/2008 at 21:51 sana says:
Uh, yeah?
17/04/2008 at 21:52 Elyscape says:
I don’t like the idea of unlocks being tied directly to achievements. I think it would be much nicer if Valve either let you have the new weapons without doing anything special or separated the unlocking process from the achievements. That said, I do hope that they add a server variable to disable unlocks, as well as one that gives everyone on the server all of them.
17/04/2008 at 21:56 Will Tomas says:
I agree completely that TF2′s genius lies in it’s simplicity. But I haven’t properly played it for weeks, and I recognise that whilst I like the fact that it’s there, and I will fire it up occasionally, I’d also like there to be people to play with next time I do. So if this keeps people playing is it a bad idea?
Still, I’d prefer more maps.
As has been mentioned, though, Valve do seem to be being intentionally silly about the achievements. They’re there to be rediculous. You’re more likely to accidentally fall into some of them than not, and others will only ever be got by truly, truly dedicated players.
In conclusion… Hmm.
17/04/2008 at 21:57 Okami says:
I was going to write something really clever and witty, but I like RPS flame free, so I’ll refrain from doing so.
17/04/2008 at 21:58 Matu says:
Hey c0wb0ys, People here. And I’d like to know what you mean.
Thanks.
17/04/2008 at 22:10 Smee says:
10 million heal points?
That’s…that’s a joke, right? When am I going to unlock that? This time next year?
17/04/2008 at 22:24 Jives says:
Fucking competitive players… seriously
17/04/2008 at 22:24 KingMob says:
I’m unbearably positive about this move. First of all, I play a medic most of the time but I’ll be happy to switch to something else for the next few weeks while everyone else tries out the new toys. And of course I’ll love the new toys myself when I get them.
Second and on a less selfish note, I think Valve is beginning to cater to a more ‘hardcore’ or at least an ‘intermediate’ audience by introducing new stuff to try to lure them back to TF2. The casuals already spent a month playing TF2, went on to COD4 and so on. The intermediate and hardcore may take this as an excuse to come back, which in the long run is good for the game.
It’s possible that all games are forced to cater to their niche as time goes on if they want to keep players. Hopefully in TF3 they’ll strip all the complexities out again.
17/04/2008 at 23:08 Arathain says:
I’m most excited about the unlockables. I love getting shiny icons I can collect. I was (and still am, to a degree) dubious about the whole unlockable weapon thing, but the Medic stuff sounds pretty decent, and I’ll reserve judgement until I try it.
Competitive players are a little odd, aren’t they? Why would you remove so much fun stuff from a game just for some sense of balance? Different priorities, I guess.
17/04/2008 at 23:09 MisterBritish says:
It may end up like the dynamic market thing they did for CS:S. 50% hate the change, 50% don’t mind. I don’t think anyone actually liked it.
17/04/2008 at 23:18 Larington says:
Just to clarify, I asked that question because sometimes it has to be asked. Personally, I wonder if they’ll end up having a traditional setup as it is now and an expanded setup that includes the medic and other later upgrades, configurable by the server admin.
Time will tell…
17/04/2008 at 23:36 Steven Hutton says:
Actually, I rather think it’s the competitive players who’re the problem. One of my personal pet peeves is playing on servers with uber or crits turned off or with a class limit. Which is why I simply don’t do that anymore. The general argument I hear is “An unskilled player can beat a skilled player with a lucky crit.” to which the answer is: Yes! Exactly! That’s the whole point!
The arcane rules imposed by the self declared elites in online games can be a serious barrier to people who want to play and enjoy a game without dedicating their lives to it. I say this having viewed the phenomenon from both sides of the line.
Warcraft has a particular problem with this hardcore/softcore devide. I’m personally in favour of anything that benfits the softcore gamers. The hardcore are more than capable of taking care of themselves.
I should note that I also despise players who demand NORUSH in RTS games. I’m not a rusher, but nor am I such a spoon that I can’t protect against a rush and have to take my ball and go home if anyone attacks me before I say I’m ready.
17/04/2008 at 23:41 nobody important says:
Are you guys serious? You honestly believe this will in any way affect the way you approach playing and dealing with medics? It doesn’t matter if you can see what weapon he has BECAUSE IT DOESN’T AFFECT YOU. I highly doubt leeching a measly 3 points of health per hit will make much difference with the kind of damage other classes do. The ubersaw? What are you doing letting him get that close anyway? And the critzcrieg will definitely have a different appearance when activated so you know if he’s still vulnerable. It’s not a bloody big deal people.
And if you think all the new achievements affect the game’s “simplicity” then just don’t even think about them. They don’t change the actual game.
I was impressed by the weapons because they are exactly the opposite of what everyone is complaining about. They are perfectly balanced and don’t over-complicate things in the slightest.
Honestly, I’m as much of a ‘purist’ as anyone. But if you really think about this, only good can come of it.
17/04/2008 at 23:49 Margin Walker says:
One of the things that I have really enjoyed about TF2 is that I didn’t need to worry about points or achievements. Not that unlocks will change anything for me because as a person who plays the game once a week for a few hours, it will take me a long time to get to enough achievements to matter, especially as I don’t play medic all that much. Coming out of playing BF2 for 2 years, this has been exactly the sort of thing that I was looking for that allows me to frag my friends and play for fun. I don’t relish the changes that unlocks are likely to bring a la BF2 point whoring.
I know that there is already at least one custom map out that plays gold rush as we are running it on our server. I believe that it is called “es_mining” or something similar, and it is fun, although there are about 2 too many checkpoints before the end. It takes everyone a good 5 minutes to figure out wtf is going on the first time they play it, which is entertaining to hear on the comms :D
18/04/2008 at 00:17 Radiant says:
Completely agree with what Gillen wrote.
Actually to be honest they are probably aiming these tweaks right at the kind of people who play as medics.
That’s right you people.
18/04/2008 at 00:33 nobody important says:
“it will take me a long time to get to enough achievements to matter, especially as I don’t play medic all that much”
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Enough achievements to matter!? Just because they’re there you HAVE to freak out and obsess over them thus ruining your enjoyment of the game?
And what you you mean by matter? You believe you won’t be competitive unless you get all the new weapons? Someone explain to me how someone with these weapons has any tactical advantage over anyone else. Please.
18/04/2008 at 00:44 Mataway says:
I’m a full time medic for the most part, so I’m pretty jazzed about these changes. I love medicing, but I don’t think there is anything wrong with spicing the game up a bit. All three new weapons seem pretty balanced to me; I’m really torn about which ones I would use.
The achievements are intense, but doable. I suspect ones like 4 heavy kills with fists are more doable when he is throwing nothing but crits. Robin Walker has also said they are looking for ways for players who don’t want to deal with the achievements to unlock the weapons, so we’ll see how that goes. I think tying them to achievements makes sense for new players in that they won’t be overwhelmed by optional loadouts to start; they’ll slowly get new toys as they play the class.
18/04/2008 at 00:52 Down Rodeo says:
I’d like to firstly say that I love Valve in an entirely unhealthy fashion so this will likely be a biased comment, but ah well.
One thing I feel about TF2 is that it is a really deep game; you need to know what you’re doing to get anywhere in it without dying repeatedly (not that that stops me, of course). The difference with TF2 is that it teaches you all these things not only gradually but also very well. I’ve never felt overwhelmed (in terms of information on-screen) when playing a round.
In terms of differentiating what loadout a medic will be using, the new CC weapon looks pretty different, the “Bloodsucker” is differently coloured I believe and the Critzkrieg will give itself away by the colour of beam (I seem to remember reading in an article). If you think you won’t be able to spot this, you tell me how many spies you’ve shot at and killed because there was something unknowably ‘wrong’ about them.
Also, even if a lone medic has all three unlocks and you happen across them as a scout you’re still going to beat them to death with the baseball bat. Or attempt to, anyway. Then be a jerk about it by taunting.
18/04/2008 at 00:53 wyrmsine says:
I’m not ambivalent about the changes, in fact, I’m looking quite forward to them… that said, I reckon there’s going to be a steep imbalance curve for a bit when players start picking up that Ubersaw. A three-medic assault combo can already be pretty deadly on it’s own, with rolling ubers and bonesaws. Add to that the tendency for hardcore players to unlock the harder achievements with buddies in a controlled environment, and it looks like a big hill to climb.
BTW, why do they call them competitve players if they have to change the rules to avoid dying? If you’re that good and someone kills you with a lucky shot, isn’t a respawn just another chance to prove superiority?
18/04/2008 at 01:15 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
Well, I was simply going to read, nod sagely, and leave, but then someone brought up the issue of “hardcore vs. softcore” players.
On the level of principle, I can’t say I’m too happy to see TF2 slipping from its simplicity promise. On the other hand, it’s been a long time since I’ve played TF2, mostly because it lacked the addictive “grinding” qualities of other recent shooters.
I’m also not worried that this harms the casual audience because, well, *I’m* casual to TF2, and I got lured away by simple, if not quite “competitively level” things like unlocks in other games. I imagine it’s only the hardcore that really complains about this sort of thing. The even *more* hardcore impose those rules on themselves that Steven Hutton mentioned. They’re an insular community that turned inwards, while for a community to thrive it needs to grow outwards. And maybe bring in the easily-motivated casuals to come back and aim for those new Medic Achievements. (Only to realize that they’re all quite silly, actually.)
I can’t quite say I’m “hardcore.” I never could sympathize with–going for the most accessible reference, a console one–Smash Bros. players who impose a number of restrictions on themselves in the name of balance. Nevermind that the developers themselves don’t want things too even, because that way casual players would never have any fun against the superior-skilled hardcore. It’s what led to the fall of the fighting game as an industry, and it’s what makes me afraid of touching any game with a public and loud “hardcore crowd.”
What does that have to do with this, you ask? Well, er… come to think of it, not much.
The best Medics will be able to get the Ubersaw, a few will get Critzcreig, and a bunch may get the Blutsauger. While that seems to promote a hardcore more than the casual gaming group, at first glance, you have to remember that the unchanging “level playing field” kind of bored casual players like me. This gives a bone to both groups. A reward for the hardcore’s work, and an exciting and marketable shake up to the status quo to lure back some lost casual players.
A quick look at the unlocks’ abilities and how they would affect a medic’s performance also seems to imply that these new unlocks don’t make a stronger medic. In fact, they might make a slightly *worse* medic. However, they’re new, different, and provide alternative tactics for people who *aren’t* completely bored with playing the game normally.
I guess I’m saying that I’m not distressed by this news in the least. On the contrary, as a not-hardcore gamer, I’m actually kind of getting excited to play TF2 again.
And I think that’s what Valve is trying to aim at, here.
18/04/2008 at 01:24 Mark says:
I like playing Medic. I’m terrible at games so Medic, where I don’t have to aim ever, is the one class that I can pretend like I’m being a bit useful. I can’t wait to try the new weapons.
Problem is, I can’t get those achievements. I know I can’t. I’m simply a bad player. I will never get to use them. And even if I were good enough, I’m not sure I’d want to take the time out of my normal play-style just to hunt down achievements.
Unlockables, in general, are bullshit. I just want to play the damn game. Don’t make me work.
18/04/2008 at 02:15 caramelcarrot says:
Having initially had reservations about the CoD4 unlockable system, I have to say it’s quite fun in some ways – if frustrating at times. First, the barrier to progression against people with a higher rank isn’t so high that it’s impossible to progress, I quickly rose through the various ranks as soon as I started playing. For a game with so many weapons, such a system is almost needed, it sort of gives you the opportunity to try out all the weapons.
However, for a game like TF2, I enjoy occasionally dropping in for a half-hour game. These sort of RPG-items geared towards grinders really doesn’t help. Either they have to be so nerfed that they’re not any different to the other weapons, or they’re too powerful against casual players. One way to go with this is purely cosmetic enhancements as rewards – some of the unlockables in CoD4 are just different styles of camo.
In addition, balancing a game in which one class might randomly have better weapons seems like a bit of a tricky task.
Personally I think they should’ve gone with bringing in grenades on a limited scale as a more interesting turn to the game.
18/04/2008 at 03:57 wyrmsine says:
Mark’s post made me think of an alternate way to unlock the new content. It’d be nice if Valve would let you “gift”, say, a Critzcreig. You could always unlock another one…
18/04/2008 at 05:05 Chiablo says:
All I know is… on launch day, there will be 99% medics… and one Heavy named Chiablo getting all of the healing love!
18/04/2008 at 05:29 Stick says:
@Chiablo:
Heheh. Well, I’ll be hanging up the medigun on launch day, so beware my really healed Pyro.
18/04/2008 at 05:52 brainwashed says:
I’m looking forward to this. I played TF2 obsessively for around 4 months or so, solely on public servers, mostly as the medic, and then it grew stale. I’ll definitely be pulling out the rusty bonesaw when this update is released.
Only concern – two skilled medics with ubersaws and the standard medigun…. permanent invulnerability while they are getting melee hits. (I actually think this is more hilarious than concerning)
18/04/2008 at 06:58 Zoom says:
Re: Sebastian’s point, does anyone actually play TF2 or do they just write about it? If those numbers are right it’s less popular than rarely-mentioned Quake Wars and antique Soldier of Fortune 2. Who knew people still played that?
Also, if Valve wants me to play TF2 (and I have orange box) then they need to add bots. It sounds way too complicated for me to jump into without understanding the classes, their interplay, and the map layouts. I have other online shooters which don’t have a public embarassment factor, so I stick to them.
And I’m astonished that they’re still working on adding a single map to the game. UT3 just added three. And Halo 3 and CoD 4 are also faster, albeit for-pay. When I was playing UT2004 there would be a fresh (community, but usually high quality) map on my favourite server every week!
I’m not particularly keen on unlocks either. If the game itself isn’t interesting enough to justify playing it then change it, don’t add shiny trinkets to it.
18/04/2008 at 08:10 Funkula says:
If you disallow parts of the game as it stands, I don’t think that makes you a “competitive” player. In fact, I think it makes you a scrub.
18/04/2008 at 08:22 James says:
For me, the money quote from Valve was
which to me says the pure balance isn’t going to change much. However, it doesn’t say if they’ve accounted for the metagame – how many people will have the unlocks. My question is, will existing kills and so on count for the achievements?
18/04/2008 at 08:28 BrokenSymmetry says:
@Zoom: Agreed about the bots. I’m very bad at multiplayer shooters, and the only way I can get even a little bit better is by practicing against bots, on increasing difficulty levels. Even if the bots are not very smart, it’s a great way to learn. That’s why Quake Wars and UT3 get my vote.
18/04/2008 at 08:29 kadayi says:
Zoom. TF2 is a ridiculously easy game to pick up and play, it’s far more legible in terms of what you can/have to do compared to any other MP shooter out there. However it’s a possesses a zen like tactical quality put’s it beyond the realm of gaming bots to emulate. It’s a vehicle that can only be driven by pure human cunning (esp as a spy or Engineer). Jump in, you won’t be disappointed. TF2 is nothing like CS in terms of learning curve, and to deny yourself experiencing it now (in it’s purest form) would be a mistake tbh.
If the unlocks help to strengthen the TF2 player base then it’s all for the good in the long term. What I think concerns me is that the high number of achievements when replicated across the entire range of characters may reduce the casual appeal of the game.
18/04/2008 at 08:33 Man Raised By Puffins says:
@Zoom: They’ve added CTF_Well and Badlands already, so Goldrush will make three new maps since the games release.
If you’re worried about the embarassment factor just hop on a server and play as Medic and follow a Heavy or Soldier around. That’s pretty much how I learned the ropes, although granted the learning curve will be steeper now that the game is more established. Additionally a couple of the maps also have commentaries so you walk around and learn the layouts beforehand as well and if you’re unsure about the class interplays then there are a couple of How to Play.. videos up on YouTube.
18/04/2008 at 08:51 Turin Turambar says:
I also don’t like the idea. New weapons are good, i am speaking about achievements, unlocks, the grind brought to the game to get them, and the consequences in the gameplay provoked by this decision, like the excessive amount of medics in the games, medics playing in a certain form to unlock whatever achievements (instead of trying to win the match with his team), people cheating in private servers with friends to get the new weapons before anyone, etc.
18/04/2008 at 09:04 Turin Turambar says:
A bit more:
I have TF2, but after the first weeks, i left the game, it grew stale and a bit “more of the same” to me. So the idea of new weapons is attractive, to come back to the game and try them, try new tactics, etc.
But i don’t want to play 30 hours more of the actual TF2 (i would prefer to play 30 hours of another game, my time is limited) to enter in the new TF2-with-new-weapons that i want to try. That’s my issue.
18/04/2008 at 09:07 Guido says:
I was agreeing with your post, until I saw c0wb0ys7y13′ post.
Now I know the changes are awesome. [Hardcore players] feel they got the short end? Yay :)
18/04/2008 at 10:17 Stick says:
@James:
I’m guessing things like “total points healed” will count retroactively – there’s already a stat file which includes that – but I doubt there’s code in place to track the “trick shot” achievements.
(Installing update and getting “DING! 32/36 Achievements Achievizized!” would be awesome. But… my faith in Valve isn’t that blind. :) )
18/04/2008 at 10:33 Andrew Doull says:
Funkula: Amen. Need more Sirlin in the house.
Also, Valve should have adopted my thinly veiled stealing ideas for new classes instead.
18/04/2008 at 10:51 Swashbuckler says:
@kadayi
How can it be simpler than a deathmatch in e.g. CoD 4? It’s got classes and teams and objectives and deployable fortifications… and you said yourself it requires cunning. Can’t be cunning if I’m running around bewildered and lost, can I? Bots don’t have to be that smart, I’d just like enough to give me something to try the weapons out on and learn the game. And also as an alternative to general online jerkiness – sometimes I want to shoot something but don’t fancy dealing with that. Or lag. Or the fact that most people are better than me. I’m not even that casual, but TF2 basically seems overwhelming to me.
18/04/2008 at 11:23 MarvintheParanoidAndroid says:
@Guido:
Totally agreed. Part of the reason I’ve never got into competitive play in many games is the whole idea of “oh, we don’t play the game like it was made, we don’t use these weapons, we’re playing the game PROPERLY”. Which makes running around with a shotgun or P90 owning enraged level 55 “competitive” players in COD4 all the more hilarious.
And now this article and all the comments has thoroughly confused me on whether this is a good thing or not. I think in the end I’m just going to take the “trust Valve” route, and hope for the best. I won’t be grinding endlessly for the new weapons, but I’ll certainly be more likely to fire up TF2 and play as a medic, and I’m sure it’ll be just as good. And at least if c0wb0ys7y13 post is representative of the “competitive” community, the idea of TF2 catering more towards the hardcore won’t actually be the case. If the hardcore box themselves into their own PROPER version of TF2 with no crits, no ubercharge, no unlocks, no new maps, then I’ll be sticking to the default servers I know and love :)
18/04/2008 at 12:56 Mman says:
The only problem I have with the unlocks is the method for it, if getting everything only needed around 50-75% of achievements and the rest was bragging rights I could support it (you would need to delve into a few of the tricky ones, but have enough margin to leave out anything you find ridiculous), but as it is, aren’t the new weapons supposed to be there to support different playstyles; what’s the point when literally (based on Valve own stats) only 2-5% of players EVER are going to get everything? Especially since some of them are very specific, difficult or specific AND difficult.
18/04/2008 at 14:53 Dinger says:
You know, they did mention exploring the possibility of “other ways” to get unlocks.
I can see slipping some in to “balance” games… You know, if one team gets pwned three times in a row, unlock the übersaw. That’ll make it four times.
About the “scrubs” issue: I agree that there are losers who do such things (and bitch about ‘lucky crits’ — dude, if you’re in a position where a crit could kill you, you deserve to die every once in a while). Still, the “definition” there is wrong.
It’ll take us too far afield to explore it in depth, but the problem with the Sirlin.net definition is:
it assumes the only rules that matter are the rules of the game as implemented.
The problem then is that “playing to win” can involve a whole series of things that work, but are either bugs, exploits or cheats.
It also conveniently overlooks the fact that victory has many meanings, especially on public servers. I often look to win, but sometimes I just want to cut a bunch of people up with the bonesaw, or see people burn. I’m not alone in that.
Most of all, the biggest issue here is that there is a difference between behavior permitted by the game and behavior sanctioned by ones peers. Spawn-camping is a classic case. TF2′s genius lies in making these two realms as close as possible. Still, there will be a difference, and there will be people who try to influence what constitutes socially acceptable behavior.
Turning of critical hits is just dumb. Well, not entirely, since the way of indicating critical hits is an artistic false note. Still, it’s idiotic, just as the people who bitch that they wouldn’t have died if the game wasn’t set up that way, just as torching an assembly area is bad form (pyro to the rescue).
Still, if the uebersaw requires all 36 achievements, the only people with uebersaws are going to be the farmers/cheaters.
18/04/2008 at 14:59 Mario Granger says:
Its a testament to Valve’s talents as a game developer in how they balanced the achievements.
They set up the unlocking so that arguably the most powerful new weapon (the Ubersaw) is the most difficult unlock. Which was smart, as it has the most potential to unbalance the game: imagine if they had made it the first unlock? You’d see an endless stream of offensive medics.
By making it the last unlock, they’ve made it so that you have to be a real medic in order to get that weapon. And those players likely wouldn’t become overly offensively minded.
That said however, I completely agree with Kieron’s points. Thus may very well be a well designed addition to the game, but I feel it mucks up the purity of its design.
18/04/2008 at 17:30 Margin Walker says:
@nobody important
What I meant by “matter” is that you need 12 to get the first unlock and so on. I doubt I would ever get 12 unless they are so easy as to not really be achievements at all. I certainly won’t be freaking out about it and worrying about it. I played BF2 forever without ever making it to Lt because I played the game and it’s mods where and how I wanted to, and had fun doing it. I plan to do the same with TF2 if with less skill overall :D
18/04/2008 at 17:45 Theory says:
That graph is wholly inaccurate. Right now there are 7,536 people playing, putting it at number 5 on OGZ’s chart. Zeh really needs to look into that…
18/04/2008 at 18:09 matte_k says:
Hmmm…think i’ll reserve full judgement for when they’re released, and I can play hands on and make an informed decision. But, first impressions:
Extra gear-great, new tactics, further diversity of play, and if they roll this out for all classes there’s going to be some really crazy games out there soon.
Achievements-Some are relatively easy, some look stupendously hard, and will probably be achieved by blind luck rather than skill (mind, some of the offence/defence achievements out there already I’ve won by chance, i.e. joining a game in progress near the end that awards me them). So i’m not overly keen on them.
Goldrush-watched the video flythrough, it looks awesome. That’s probably the best thing about the update, tbh- a new game mode and a whole few weeks of watching even seasoned players flailing about like idiots as they try to work out winning tactics…
18/04/2008 at 18:17 Kadayi says:
@Swashbuckler
Are you looking for an answer, or are you just coming up with reasons why you couldn’t possibly ask the girl out?
I’m all for answers but if it’s a case of ‘yes but what if she thinks I’m fat’ or ‘What if everyone laughs at me?’ there seems little point in providing an answer.
If your online stage fright is so extreme the thought of diving into the heady waters of TF2 is enough to send you giddy then perhaps online FPS aren’t for you fullstop tbh.
18/04/2008 at 18:18 poullos says:
Just to spice things up, what would be a better update from valve? Adding maps? They did that with CS:S but that didn’t change much. CS:S has a working formula and all that needs it’s content to play, thus maps. But they would all be there even if there was only Dust, Dust 2 and a couple more. Why? Because it’s depth is elsewhere..
TF 2 would benefit from a 3-4 maps pack but seriously would that make the game ‘deeper’ as some would say a few weeks ago?
Adding unlockables doesn’t change anything in terms of balance since there are some trade-offs aka ‘opportunity costs’ in getting those new guns. I understand the whole 36-grinding-achievements-to-get-new-guns but that won’t make much than add 2-3 more strategies to the already hundreds all classes included: and that’s why valve can slowly add unlockables for one-two classes each time.
I like maths a bit so let’s use them for 2 secs…
A few people get the first unlock and everybody sees that little to nothing changes. Then a little less unlock the second-critizier-and even more people see it as a weapon with even lesser change from what they can use. The third one will only be to the hands of the very few and only a handful of them will be able to achieve their target: melee attack with 4 hits and then uber.
I don’t think this update will make the game worse. Although, I know most of you people with seconds thoughts, are commenting about the update attracting more players and not making worse that what it is now. I think TF 2 can not grow bigger now, at least not much. There is one thing though, I think can make TF 2 shine: competitive games audience.
This game IMHO is the best to view, moreover in the hands of competitive players. All the shining colors, silhouettes, taunting, etc will make the audience love to watch TF 2.
…and I always think valve knows better than most. They have the most powerful tool for games: steam stats tracking. They will know what’s good, what’s bad and what needs more content. Even if they were bad developers, steam would help them change things for the better. Imagine being at valve’s hands…
Peace :)
18/04/2008 at 19:06 Ray says:
I really don’t like the idea of forcing players to unlock achievements to use the weapons. Having to heal 10 million points is almost impossible for a casual player. Ubering a scout or killing other medics with your bonesaw are horrible tactics, so I don’t see why Valve is encouraging them with achievements. Very few people are ever going to get a chance to use the Ubersaw, it seems to go completely against Valve’s idea of TF2 being very accessible and easy to understand. New weapons would of course be a great addition if they were immediately available, but I don’t see the current approach being that great.
18/04/2008 at 23:08 Swashbuckler says:
@Kadayi
It’s more that I’m happy with UT at the moment. Why change to a game that lacks a major feature I know I like? Especially since getting tuned into one FPS somehow means getting worse at the others for me.
Or, to use your neat analogy, why dump this girl for another one that (on the outside at least) isn’t as attractive, and will take some work to get into bed? All I want is for Valve to provide some plastic surgery and enhance her in a certain area :)
18/04/2008 at 23:33 SuperNashwan says:
Valve are obviously experimenting a bit with the first lot of achievements, I think they’ll be keeping a close eye on what people say and how many people actually get them and change things for the next lot accordingly. Personally I think the main problem with the more difficult achievements is they mostly rely on the skill of your team mate and the lack of it from your enemies so much that they don’t resemble achievements at all, just something that might happen very occasionally if you’re lucky.
19/04/2008 at 01:50 Nick says:
I dislike the Critzcrieg apart from it’s genius name. The absolute least fun thing in TF2 for me has got to be bloody 1 hit kills from critical rockets. 100% crit rocket spam for 10 seconds with the frequency of an ubercharge? That’s not fun. Surely that’s got to make defending even harder than it is already.
Ah well, I haven’t even played TF2 in months now anyway, too few maps burnt me out fairly fast (and user made ones were mostly of dubious quality).
19/04/2008 at 04:48 Winterborn says:
I just hope they’re not too slow on getting these out for other classes. I’d like to see some Pyro love.
And this is from someone who’s most played class is medic.
19/04/2008 at 10:03 Kadayi says:
@Swashbuckler
So basically your into the superficial then. Horses for courses I guess.
19/04/2008 at 11:47 Kadayi says:
@Winterborn
The guys at 1UP got to test out the new stuff (see this weeks 1UPshow), and according to Valve the other character updates will be released pretty thick and fast apparently. A lot of back end stuff is being added in with this one, thus the long delay.
19/04/2008 at 22:12 Hyudra says:
I’m a big fan of TF2, and I’m a big fan of options.
My big problem with this is the fact that the rewards are tied to achievements. This is very similar to Guild Wars, which was a skill based game that introduced titles, followed by rewards which were title-dependent. This edged out the casual players and added a note of frustration and tedium to what was before a very accessible game.
I’m really into this, and I think they can make it work, but I do wish it wasn’t tied to achievements, especially when so many of them simply won’t happen for most players unless they’re rigged.
20/04/2008 at 23:40 Crispy says:
A recent poll I conducted on a Half-Life 2 fansite suggests over 50% of players would prefer new maps to new guns.
Maps are the way to keep people interested, not weapons. A map can give you a radically different game mode that -like a new set of weapons- has you using the existing classes in a fresh new way. But-
Unlike weapons, maps keep you playing for longer. Adding more maps to a mapcycle extends the repetition cycle by an extra 15-20 minutes (or more) each time. Weapons cannot do this because they are always (theoretically) available, and aren’t only included on certain maps.
When do players generally quit a multiplayer game? It’s not when they try out a new weapon, or when they unlock an achievement, it’s when they finish a map. What stops players from quitting is if a particularly fun map comes up right as they’re about to leave.
If TF2′s playerbase is dwindling it’s because it is hideously malnourished on the map front (8 maps; with 2 very close remakes from TFC) compared to Enemy Territory (12) or Battlefield (12). This isn’t enough to sustain a dedicated (hardcore?) playerbase.
21/04/2008 at 02:48 Nick says:
Not to mention playing different sizes of the Battlefield maps was almost like a different map in and of itself.
21/04/2008 at 12:15 Jiki says:
Yeah, making the game more interesting is really a crucial flaw. I can understand your uncertainty, but tbh I’d prefer more new stuff because the same old stuff over and over again gets boring sooner or later. Like, I haven’t played tf2 for months because it lost some of its glitz after I got the feeling there’s nothing new to it anymore. New maps are cool of course, but new unlockables add new ways of strategy and that’s the cool thing. Yeah, it won’t be that minimalistic anymore, but would you rather play the same old thingy over and over again or get some new shiny stuff in it (doesn’t even have to be shiny, interesting will do :P)?
20/05/2008 at 09:40 Unlocks medics no better then cheats says:
this is an old post and no one will probly ever see this but
I just witness a medic with unlocks devistate a Demo and a Soldier with ease who both scored 3-4 in/direct hits each in less then 40 seconds
So for those that think the new unlocks are stable and fair all i can say is that you’re full of shit
online play should have equal weapons to every one
mabey have in game unlocks that last the mission as then you deserver to use them, but using them for ever on noobs will just kill the game
23/05/2008 at 00:35 chainspell says:
you’re a closed minded moron, and a bunch of other things ide like to call you. but closed minded moron is already pretty accurate.
23/05/2008 at 00:56 Nick says:
There really is no compelling reason not to use the blutsauger or the ubersaw when you have them (the latter being rather stupidly powerful in fact and the former scaring pyros away), which removes the choice element somewhat. The kritskrieg proves to be the only situational weapon and thus the only real “choice” once unlocked. Not as bad as I thought, but two medics chaining ubers with ubersaws is VERY tiresome.
23/05/2008 at 01:08 Mman says:
The new saw and syringe gun are pretty much better than than the original ones the vast majority of the time, but if a Medic beats a Demoman or Soldier in 1-on-1 (let alone both in quick succession) then there are either extenuating circumstances (like them being half-dead already), or there was a massive skill gap.
07/06/2008 at 23:58 Satans Storeman says:
I daresay once all the unlocks have been unleashed the game will balance itself out again. Cant wait for the Pyro one tho !!!! :o)}
25/06/2008 at 20:38 PrivatePyle says:
I like the idea of new weapons but don’t like the achievements required to get them. I like playing the different classes but I only spend an average of 10 hours a week playing so generally I get destroyed in on line games. Now the people who play constantly are going to get better weapons making it even more difficult for the casual player or new player. The other night I went on to one of my favorite sites. Two guys are in the game playing each other but just trying to earn pyro achievements. As soon as they see me the leave the server to look for another empty one to pad their stats.