A little late to this, considering we’re a PC site and it’s our favourite PC shooter since we started doing this thing, but I’ve been having a quiet think about the forthcoming new content for Team Fortress 2. Its contents have been finalised, with Shacknews having my personal favourite coverage. In brief, there’s three unlockable weapons weapons for the medic, a new map and game-mode and thirty six (Count ‘em!) medic achievements. Robin Walker’s talked about their commitment for doing similar expansions for the other classes. And the extra content is lovely and all but…
I dunno. I have reservations.
Which partially I feel bad about because – y’know – fanboy sense of entitlement is one of the most sickening things in the world, and this is free shiny stuff. And partially I think it perhaps shows a lack of faith in a team who’ve shown they, more than anyone else who released an online FPS game in the last year, know what they’re doing. They’re not unproven people, I should wait the couple of weeks then give it a crack rather than having little thinks. And also, I’m mainly a medic anyway, so this is extra toys for yours truly. But…
Okay, the new mode – one team pushing along a bomb-filled cart while the other tries to stop them from doing that – sounds splendid fun. More achievements are good, especially ones which are clearly trying to encourage good play. For example, number seven, Play Doctor: In a team with no medics, be first to switch to medic after a teammate calls “Medic!” and then heal 500 health. It’s a cute way to try and encourage people to do the necessary without needing a Messiah Complex.
But the unlockable weapons. For those who don’t follow the link, there’s three – the Blutsaugher, Critzcrieg and Ubersaw unlocked when you read 12, 24 and 36 achievements respectively. The Blutsaugh is a primarily defensive version of the syringe gun which adds to your health when it hurts someone else, at the expense of the (incredibly valuable for the medic) critical hits. The Critzcrieg is an alternative ubercharge, which rather than making its target invulnerable, increases its targets chance to deliver critical hits to 100%. That means you can kill a lot of people… but you’re still vulnerable. Finally, if you get them all, it’s an Ubersaw which is slower than the standard saw, but a single hit will increase the ubercharge by a hefty 25%. Its offensive possibilities are kind of obvious. And brutal. And possibly very humiliating for the opposition.
My problems are threefold – one which kind of applies to any FPS that does the unlocking thing, and the second which applies specifically to Team Fortress 2 and the third which will probably be the result of the first two.
The first is that unlocking in a skill-based game rises my purist hackles. If I found myself playing Kasparov in chess, I’d like him to beat me because he’s Kasparov, not because he has a piece I’m not allowed to use. It doesn’t matter if that piece is balanced to what mine is – its just that the game is no longer symmetrical.
(Which isn’t to say than a non-symmetrical game can’t be fun – e.g. Most RTS – but a game which has tiny bits of non-symmetry built on the top also lacks the courage of its convictions)
Secondly, Team Fortress 2 has been a poster child for clarity in games. We’ve spent much of our existence linking to pieces where we’ve seen Valve talk about how they studied the silhouettes to make sure everyone was identifiable, to make the individual pieces of the game clear. The problem now is when you add extra powers, which aren’t necessarily available to you, that becomes foggy. I see a medic now, I know what they can do and how to act. I see a medic in a few weeks time, I have a load of possibilities what they can do. I just don’t know until they display these abilities, and then it’s too late.
The third point is the direction it takes the game. There was something in Team Fortress 2 which attracted an impressively wide section of the PC gaming community – and I suspect it’s the combination of its clarity and purity. We could see how the game worked – the characters were iconic in look (Hey! Cute!) and action (He is a soldier – so I’ll know he’ll be doing this sort of thing). It was welcoming in a way which many FPS increasingly weren’t.
Conversely, this takes it back in the direction from whence it came. This is catering specifically to the player who only plays Team Fortress 2, who they’re trying to retain the interest of. Because neither of the two problems I describe above really matter if you’re playing the game that much – you’ll get all the unlocks soon enough, making the game symmetrical with your peers (but above newcomers) and the extra variety and unpredictability adds spice. And when they’ve gone through all the classes, the game may even have as many toys as the original Team Fortress… which would leave Valve in the somewhat amusing position of disappointing a new hardcore they’ve nurtured when they strip it back for Team Fortress 3. This is a move which sacrifices a sliver of its appeal to more casual players for the true devotees. It takes it a half-step towards all those gentrified gaming communities which may as well be on the boom on its own private internet for how accessible they are to newcomers.
In other words, yes, my problem with the unlocks is that it makes Team Fortress 2 more like everyone else.
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Re: Sebastian’s point, does anyone actually play TF2 or do they just write about it? If those numbers are right it’s less popular than rarely-mentioned Quake Wars and antique Soldier of Fortune 2. Who knew people still played that?
Also, if Valve wants me to play TF2 (and I have orange box) then they need to add bots. It sounds way too complicated for me to jump into without understanding the classes, their interplay, and the map layouts. I have other online shooters which don’t have a public embarassment factor, so I stick to them.
And I’m astonished that they’re still working on adding a single map to the game. UT3 just added three. And Halo 3 and CoD 4 are also faster, albeit for-pay. When I was playing UT2004 there would be a fresh (community, but usually high quality) map on my favourite server every week!
I’m not particularly keen on unlocks either. If the game itself isn’t interesting enough to justify playing it then change it, don’t add shiny trinkets to it.
If you disallow parts of the game as it stands, I don’t think that makes you a “competitive” player. In fact, I think it makes you a scrub.
For me, the money quote from Valve was
which to me says the pure balance isn’t going to change much. However, it doesn’t say if they’ve accounted for the metagame – how many people will have the unlocks. My question is, will existing kills and so on count for the achievements?
@Zoom: Agreed about the bots. I’m very bad at multiplayer shooters, and the only way I can get even a little bit better is by practicing against bots, on increasing difficulty levels. Even if the bots are not very smart, it’s a great way to learn. That’s why Quake Wars and UT3 get my vote.
Zoom. TF2 is a ridiculously easy game to pick up and play, it’s far more legible in terms of what you can/have to do compared to any other MP shooter out there. However it’s a possesses a zen like tactical quality put’s it beyond the realm of gaming bots to emulate. It’s a vehicle that can only be driven by pure human cunning (esp as a spy or Engineer). Jump in, you won’t be disappointed. TF2 is nothing like CS in terms of learning curve, and to deny yourself experiencing it now (in it’s purest form) would be a mistake tbh.
If the unlocks help to strengthen the TF2 player base then it’s all for the good in the long term. What I think concerns me is that the high number of achievements when replicated across the entire range of characters may reduce the casual appeal of the game.
@Zoom: They’ve added CTF_Well and Badlands already, so Goldrush will make three new maps since the games release.
If you’re worried about the embarassment factor just hop on a server and play as Medic and follow a Heavy or Soldier around. That’s pretty much how I learned the ropes, although granted the learning curve will be steeper now that the game is more established. Additionally a couple of the maps also have commentaries so you walk around and learn the layouts beforehand as well and if you’re unsure about the class interplays then there are a couple of How to Play.. videos up on YouTube.
I also don’t like the idea. New weapons are good, i am speaking about achievements, unlocks, the grind brought to the game to get them, and the consequences in the gameplay provoked by this decision, like the excessive amount of medics in the games, medics playing in a certain form to unlock whatever achievements (instead of trying to win the match with his team), people cheating in private servers with friends to get the new weapons before anyone, etc.
A bit more:
I have TF2, but after the first weeks, i left the game, it grew stale and a bit “more of the same” to me. So the idea of new weapons is attractive, to come back to the game and try them, try new tactics, etc.
But i don’t want to play 30 hours more of the actual TF2 (i would prefer to play 30 hours of another game, my time is limited) to enter in the new TF2-with-new-weapons that i want to try. That’s my issue.
I was agreeing with your post, until I saw c0wb0ys7y13′ post.
Now I know the changes are awesome. [Hardcore players] feel they got the short end? Yay :)
@James:
I’m guessing things like “total points healed” will count retroactively – there’s already a stat file which includes that – but I doubt there’s code in place to track the “trick shot” achievements.
(Installing update and getting “DING! 32/36 Achievements Achievizized!” would be awesome. But… my faith in Valve isn’t that blind. :) )
Funkula: Amen. Need more Sirlin in the house.
Also, Valve should have adopted my thinly veiled stealing ideas for new classes instead.
@kadayi
How can it be simpler than a deathmatch in e.g. CoD 4? It’s got classes and teams and objectives and deployable fortifications… and you said yourself it requires cunning. Can’t be cunning if I’m running around bewildered and lost, can I? Bots don’t have to be that smart, I’d just like enough to give me something to try the weapons out on and learn the game. And also as an alternative to general online jerkiness – sometimes I want to shoot something but don’t fancy dealing with that. Or lag. Or the fact that most people are better than me. I’m not even that casual, but TF2 basically seems overwhelming to me.
@Guido:
Totally agreed. Part of the reason I’ve never got into competitive play in many games is the whole idea of “oh, we don’t play the game like it was made, we don’t use these weapons, we’re playing the game PROPERLY”. Which makes running around with a shotgun or P90 owning enraged level 55 “competitive” players in COD4 all the more hilarious.
And now this article and all the comments has thoroughly confused me on whether this is a good thing or not. I think in the end I’m just going to take the “trust Valve” route, and hope for the best. I won’t be grinding endlessly for the new weapons, but I’ll certainly be more likely to fire up TF2 and play as a medic, and I’m sure it’ll be just as good. And at least if c0wb0ys7y13 post is representative of the “competitive” community, the idea of TF2 catering more towards the hardcore won’t actually be the case. If the hardcore box themselves into their own PROPER version of TF2 with no crits, no ubercharge, no unlocks, no new maps, then I’ll be sticking to the default servers I know and love :)
The only problem I have with the unlocks is the method for it, if getting everything only needed around 50-75% of achievements and the rest was bragging rights I could support it (you would need to delve into a few of the tricky ones, but have enough margin to leave out anything you find ridiculous), but as it is, aren’t the new weapons supposed to be there to support different playstyles; what’s the point when literally (based on Valve own stats) only 2-5% of players EVER are going to get everything? Especially since some of them are very specific, difficult or specific AND difficult.
You know, they did mention exploring the possibility of “other ways” to get unlocks.
I can see slipping some in to “balance” games… You know, if one team gets pwned three times in a row, unlock the übersaw. That’ll make it four times.
About the “scrubs” issue: I agree that there are losers who do such things (and bitch about ‘lucky crits’ — dude, if you’re in a position where a crit could kill you, you deserve to die every once in a while). Still, the “definition” there is wrong.
It’ll take us too far afield to explore it in depth, but the problem with the Sirlin.net definition is:
it assumes the only rules that matter are the rules of the game as implemented.
The problem then is that “playing to win” can involve a whole series of things that work, but are either bugs, exploits or cheats.
It also conveniently overlooks the fact that victory has many meanings, especially on public servers. I often look to win, but sometimes I just want to cut a bunch of people up with the bonesaw, or see people burn. I’m not alone in that.
Most of all, the biggest issue here is that there is a difference between behavior permitted by the game and behavior sanctioned by ones peers. Spawn-camping is a classic case. TF2’s genius lies in making these two realms as close as possible. Still, there will be a difference, and there will be people who try to influence what constitutes socially acceptable behavior.
Turning of critical hits is just dumb. Well, not entirely, since the way of indicating critical hits is an artistic false note. Still, it’s idiotic, just as the people who bitch that they wouldn’t have died if the game wasn’t set up that way, just as torching an assembly area is bad form (pyro to the rescue).
Still, if the uebersaw requires all 36 achievements, the only people with uebersaws are going to be the farmers/cheaters.
Its a testament to Valve’s talents as a game developer in how they balanced the achievements.
They set up the unlocking so that arguably the most powerful new weapon (the Ubersaw) is the most difficult unlock. Which was smart, as it has the most potential to unbalance the game: imagine if they had made it the first unlock? You’d see an endless stream of offensive medics.
By making it the last unlock, they’ve made it so that you have to be a real medic in order to get that weapon. And those players likely wouldn’t become overly offensively minded.
That said however, I completely agree with Kieron’s points. Thus may very well be a well designed addition to the game, but I feel it mucks up the purity of its design.
@nobody important
What I meant by “matter” is that you need 12 to get the first unlock and so on. I doubt I would ever get 12 unless they are so easy as to not really be achievements at all. I certainly won’t be freaking out about it and worrying about it. I played BF2 forever without ever making it to Lt because I played the game and it’s mods where and how I wanted to, and had fun doing it. I plan to do the same with TF2 if with less skill overall :D
That graph is wholly inaccurate. Right now there are 7,536 people playing, putting it at number 5 on OGZ’s chart. Zeh really needs to look into that…
Hmmm…think i’ll reserve full judgement for when they’re released, and I can play hands on and make an informed decision. But, first impressions:
Extra gear-great, new tactics, further diversity of play, and if they roll this out for all classes there’s going to be some really crazy games out there soon.
Achievements-Some are relatively easy, some look stupendously hard, and will probably be achieved by blind luck rather than skill (mind, some of the offence/defence achievements out there already I’ve won by chance, i.e. joining a game in progress near the end that awards me them). So i’m not overly keen on them.
Goldrush-watched the video flythrough, it looks awesome. That’s probably the best thing about the update, tbh- a new game mode and a whole few weeks of watching even seasoned players flailing about like idiots as they try to work out winning tactics…
@Swashbuckler
Are you looking for an answer, or are you just coming up with reasons why you couldn’t possibly ask the girl out?
I’m all for answers but if it’s a case of ‘yes but what if she thinks I’m fat’ or ‘What if everyone laughs at me?’ there seems little point in providing an answer.
If your online stage fright is so extreme the thought of diving into the heady waters of TF2 is enough to send you giddy then perhaps online FPS aren’t for you fullstop tbh.
Just to spice things up, what would be a better update from valve? Adding maps? They did that with CS:S but that didn’t change much. CS:S has a working formula and all that needs it’s content to play, thus maps. But they would all be there even if there was only Dust, Dust 2 and a couple more. Why? Because it’s depth is elsewhere..
TF 2 would benefit from a 3-4 maps pack but seriously would that make the game ‘deeper’ as some would say a few weeks ago?
Adding unlockables doesn’t change anything in terms of balance since there are some trade-offs aka ‘opportunity costs’ in getting those new guns. I understand the whole 36-grinding-achievements-to-get-new-guns but that won’t make much than add 2-3 more strategies to the already hundreds all classes included: and that’s why valve can slowly add unlockables for one-two classes each time.
I like maths a bit so let’s use them for 2 secs…
A few people get the first unlock and everybody sees that little to nothing changes. Then a little less unlock the second-critizier-and even more people see it as a weapon with even lesser change from what they can use. The third one will only be to the hands of the very few and only a handful of them will be able to achieve their target: melee attack with 4 hits and then uber.
I don’t think this update will make the game worse. Although, I know most of you people with seconds thoughts, are commenting about the update attracting more players and not making worse that what it is now. I think TF 2 can not grow bigger now, at least not much. There is one thing though, I think can make TF 2 shine: competitive games audience.
This game IMHO is the best to view, moreover in the hands of competitive players. All the shining colors, silhouettes, taunting, etc will make the audience love to watch TF 2.
…and I always think valve knows better than most. They have the most powerful tool for games: steam stats tracking. They will know what’s good, what’s bad and what needs more content. Even if they were bad developers, steam would help them change things for the better. Imagine being at valve’s hands…
Peace :)
I really don’t like the idea of forcing players to unlock achievements to use the weapons. Having to heal 10 million points is almost impossible for a casual player. Ubering a scout or killing other medics with your bonesaw are horrible tactics, so I don’t see why Valve is encouraging them with achievements. Very few people are ever going to get a chance to use the Ubersaw, it seems to go completely against Valve’s idea of TF2 being very accessible and easy to understand. New weapons would of course be a great addition if they were immediately available, but I don’t see the current approach being that great.
@Kadayi
It’s more that I’m happy with UT at the moment. Why change to a game that lacks a major feature I know I like? Especially since getting tuned into one FPS somehow means getting worse at the others for me.
Or, to use your neat analogy, why dump this girl for another one that (on the outside at least) isn’t as attractive, and will take some work to get into bed? All I want is for Valve to provide some plastic surgery and enhance her in a certain area :)
Valve are obviously experimenting a bit with the first lot of achievements, I think they’ll be keeping a close eye on what people say and how many people actually get them and change things for the next lot accordingly. Personally I think the main problem with the more difficult achievements is they mostly rely on the skill of your team mate and the lack of it from your enemies so much that they don’t resemble achievements at all, just something that might happen very occasionally if you’re lucky.
I dislike the Critzcrieg apart from it’s genius name. The absolute least fun thing in TF2 for me has got to be bloody 1 hit kills from critical rockets. 100% crit rocket spam for 10 seconds with the frequency of an ubercharge? That’s not fun. Surely that’s got to make defending even harder than it is already.
Ah well, I haven’t even played TF2 in months now anyway, too few maps burnt me out fairly fast (and user made ones were mostly of dubious quality).
I just hope they’re not too slow on getting these out for other classes. I’d like to see some Pyro love.
And this is from someone who’s most played class is medic.
@Swashbuckler
So basically your into the superficial then. Horses for courses I guess.
@Winterborn
The guys at 1UP got to test out the new stuff (see this weeks 1UPshow), and according to Valve the other character updates will be released pretty thick and fast apparently. A lot of back end stuff is being added in with this one, thus the long delay.
I’m a big fan of TF2, and I’m a big fan of options.
My big problem with this is the fact that the rewards are tied to achievements. This is very similar to Guild Wars, which was a skill based game that introduced titles, followed by rewards which were title-dependent. This edged out the casual players and added a note of frustration and tedium to what was before a very accessible game.
I’m really into this, and I think they can make it work, but I do wish it wasn’t tied to achievements, especially when so many of them simply won’t happen for most players unless they’re rigged.
A recent poll I conducted on a Half-Life 2 fansite suggests over 50% of players would prefer new maps to new guns.
Maps are the way to keep people interested, not weapons. A map can give you a radically different game mode that -like a new set of weapons- has you using the existing classes in a fresh new way. But-
Unlike weapons, maps keep you playing for longer. Adding more maps to a mapcycle extends the repetition cycle by an extra 15-20 minutes (or more) each time. Weapons cannot do this because they are always (theoretically) available, and aren’t only included on certain maps.
When do players generally quit a multiplayer game? It’s not when they try out a new weapon, or when they unlock an achievement, it’s when they finish a map. What stops players from quitting is if a particularly fun map comes up right as they’re about to leave.
If TF2’s playerbase is dwindling it’s because it is hideously malnourished on the map front (8 maps; with 2 very close remakes from TFC) compared to Enemy Territory (12) or Battlefield (12). This isn’t enough to sustain a dedicated (hardcore?) playerbase.
Not to mention playing different sizes of the Battlefield maps was almost like a different map in and of itself.
Yeah, making the game more interesting is really a crucial flaw. I can understand your uncertainty, but tbh I’d prefer more new stuff because the same old stuff over and over again gets boring sooner or later. Like, I haven’t played tf2 for months because it lost some of its glitz after I got the feeling there’s nothing new to it anymore. New maps are cool of course, but new unlockables add new ways of strategy and that’s the cool thing. Yeah, it won’t be that minimalistic anymore, but would you rather play the same old thingy over and over again or get some new shiny stuff in it (doesn’t even have to be shiny, interesting will do :P)?
this is an old post and no one will probly ever see this but
I just witness a medic with unlocks devistate a Demo and a Soldier with ease who both scored 3-4 in/direct hits each in less then 40 seconds
So for those that think the new unlocks are stable and fair all i can say is that you’re full of shit
online play should have equal weapons to every one
mabey have in game unlocks that last the mission as then you deserver to use them, but using them for ever on noobs will just kill the game
you’re a closed minded moron, and a bunch of other things ide like to call you. but closed minded moron is already pretty accurate.
There really is no compelling reason not to use the blutsauger or the ubersaw when you have them (the latter being rather stupidly powerful in fact and the former scaring pyros away), which removes the choice element somewhat. The kritskrieg proves to be the only situational weapon and thus the only real “choice” once unlocked. Not as bad as I thought, but two medics chaining ubers with ubersaws is VERY tiresome.
The new saw and syringe gun are pretty much better than than the original ones the vast majority of the time, but if a Medic beats a Demoman or Soldier in 1-on-1 (let alone both in quick succession) then there are either extenuating circumstances (like them being half-dead already), or there was a massive skill gap.
I daresay once all the unlocks have been unleashed the game will balance itself out again. Cant wait for the Pyro one tho !!!! :o)}
I like the idea of new weapons but don’t like the achievements required to get them. I like playing the different classes but I only spend an average of 10 hours a week playing so generally I get destroyed in on line games. Now the people who play constantly are going to get better weapons making it even more difficult for the casual player or new player. The other night I went on to one of my favorite sites. Two guys are in the game playing each other but just trying to earn pyro achievements. As soon as they see me the leave the server to look for another empty one to pad their stats.