Fallout 3 Concept Art: Ultra New

By John Walker on May 15th, 2008 at 10:35 pm.

Brand new FO3 news!

First of all Briosafreak, how dare you accuse me of an “unfortunate piece” when I incredibly deliberately post month old news. Secondly, thanks for the tip off to the brand new Fallout 3 artwork.

There’s 11 new pieces to oogle, along with intricate commentary from concept artist, Adam Adamowicz, if you’ll only click here. It’s much more interesting than the usual concept art dump, with stories explaining each piece, entertainingly writte. Such as:

“Don’t shoot him, you’ll just make him mad.” The famous line from Blazing Saddles describing Mongo, was my guiding inspiration for these guys. I wanted them to look like they would step into a tree shredder, for relaxation. Their musculature was to be straining at the bone structure underneath, creating a hyper jacked up caricature of a person in the throes of radioactive testosterone poisoning, and liking it.

or

Nature gets uglier, bigger, and riddled with tumors, growths, hideous discolorations, excretions and where needed, extra appendages. Anatomy became a lego set, and like the weapons I wanted the new arrangements to not only look like they’d work, but also be deadly and contribute to superior speed, shielding and oversized pokey-stabby bits. Resilience to radiation would be a blessing and a curse, the curse part resulting in a perpetual state of pissed off, like someone with a body sized cold sore. The gross out factor possibilities were enormously fun and generally involved some manner of organic internal projectile or flail.

Go check out the rest.

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59 Comments »

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  1. Briosafreak says:

    Sorry…

    Since you misspelled my nick (in true Kieron fashion) I think we’re even. :)

    I wish they had put this diary online a few months ago, and by now they should have one with 3d art and in game pictures instead, but it really is an interesting read so it’s ok, I guess.

    The guys that go to E3 will be able to play it, that should be even more interesting.

  2. Pidesco says:

    Yes, Kieron’s knowledge of Portuguese football cup winners is truly appalling.

    This is some nice artwork.

  3. John Walker says:

    Ok, but now you’ve accused me of being like Kieron, so we’re back where I have to be rude to you again.

    You… you… POOPYFACE.

  4. O.G.N says:

    So, any news on the really important things about Fallout 3? Will it use the same kind of screwed up DRM as Bioshock, Mass Effect, and Spore, or is it safe to preorder it?

  5. Ging says:

    Surely, you can just pre-order it and if you hear that it contains said drm go ahead and cancel it?

  6. MindBrain says:

    They better not dumb down Fallout 3. I want blood and gore, strong language, adult themes and hardcore gameplay.

  7. Schadenfreude says:

    I still mourn the loss of Crotch-Shots. And the goofy looking mutants (Well, more like Desperate Dan).

    Dunno, I’m just not all that excited about this game. Post Oblivion Apathy Disorder I suspect. It will be interesting to see NMA spontaneously combust when they finally get hold of a copy though.

  8. Buzzard says:

    Fallout 3 is going to be fucking awesome. If you think otherwise you should go back to NWA and whine about how it’s lame that it’s no longer in 640 by 400 resolution and no longer isometric.

  9. The_B says:

    Sorry, but does no one else think it’s a terrible shame that some great new games are coming out, and yet O.G.N’s response is the first thing people are wanting to know?

    :(

    (Not meaning to open the “can’o’p” here by the way, just an observeration.)

  10. SixStringSamurai says:

    no crotch shots is sad. true. no child killing is just… tragic. not that I would do that of course. it just gets more and more badasser each time more info/concept comes out.

  11. MtotheThird says:

    Based on the previews I’ve read and from what I’ve seen so far, I’m expecting F3 to be a resounding “Meh”. It looks as though Bethesda is focusing all of their efforts on making it both attractive and with a wonderfully coherent aesthetic. This was a great read, and I loved the look of CRAB MAN (hello man in a rubber suit from a 50s monster movie!). This game will undoubtedly be GORGEOUS.

    Story-wise, though, from the previews it would appear that they’ve chopped dialogue and character development down to just-barely-above-Oblivion levels. Atmospherically, they’ve loaded it up on cartoony head-explody gore but left out the horror. And horror is what makes a game Fallout.

    Everyone makes fun of NMA nerds for harping on and on about not being able to kill children in F3. While they may be creepy pedosociopaths, they have a point. The addictions, sleaze, desperation, and brutality of the Fallout world were what made it so different from other RPGs, throwing the numerous moments of nobility, heroism and kindness in its stories into sharp relief.

    F1 and F2 were grand and epic tragedies, that drew you in by forcing you to make the same agonizing moral choices that the desperate survivors around you made. F3 looks like it will be Mad Max. I will certainly buy it, and I will almost certainly enjoy it. But I don’t expect it to affect me as deeply and permanently as Fallout has.

  12. lilgamefreek says:

    The random, perfectly normal cockroach on the creature page was…. too cute. :D

  13. Brother None says:

    So, any news on the really important things about Fallout 3?

    Same old tune.

    I’ve said this on multiple sites now which I hate to do, but it’s really weird to release concept art at this point in the development cycle. Half a month ago Todd Howard announced the game is “basically done”. So why am I looking at concept art?

    Everyone makes fun of NMA nerds for harping on and on about not being able to kill children in F3. While they may be creepy pedosociopaths, they have a point.

    Eh? I don’t think the subject of childkilling has come up in months now on NMA. Hell, when it became clear it was out, a few people cried foul but the others just pointed out that you can’t have child-killing in any game release in the industry as it is now.

    And that’s reality, you can’t. It’s mentioned every now and again but honestly, “harping on”?

    It will be interesting to see NMA spontaneously combust when they finally get hold of a copy though.

    Is it? I think expectancies are so low at this point that it’ll be hard-pressed to get more than a shrug and a giggle. That’s what it got from me viewing the demo, anyway.

    whine about how it’s lame that it’s no longer in 640 by 400 resolution

    Oh irony

  14. Pavel says:

    Hate supermutants, like almost everything else.

  15. Kadayi says:

    I quite liked EDGE magazines recent and rather encouraging preview on Fallout 3, there were some choice comments in it as well:-

    ‘Thankfully as we see more and more of the game, it seems these detractors are misguided’

    as well as (in reference to the sequenced combat):-

    ‘The arterial spray that resulted should satisfy both the desire for visceral action and tactical play, even if it fails to tickle those hampered by irrational levels of nostalgia’

    Says it all really. Ultimately at the end of the day if a couple of hundred people don’t buy it, it’s not that big a deal tbh.

    Personally I don’t see the problem with releasing some more concept art this late in the game. The same thing happened with bioshock tbh. There is no point releasing all your CA early on, because CA is principally about generating ideas, many of which won’t see the light of day, because it’s an evolutionary process. Artist comes up with idea based off initial outline, team discusses pros & cons, feedback to Artist, Artist makes adjustments, rinse repeat until everyone is happy with the over all. There would be no point releasing Art work that never went anywhere in the end.

  16. Brokenbroll says:

    I’ll just change the name to Third Outfall in my mind, and pretend its a new IP inspired by, but not connected, to Fallout and its sequel.

  17. Jochen Scheisse says:

    ‘The arterial spray that resulted should satisfy both the desire for visceral action and tactical play, even if it fails to tickle those hampered by irrational levels of nostalgia’

    Nah, that’s bullshit. If I wish a game where I can drink my coffee while I fight, I definitely won’t be satisfied by FPS with some effect remotely similar to bullet time. And that has nothing to do with Nostalgia, I just like the turn based school of game mechanics.

  18. Yhancik says:

    Uh oh, someone said “dumb down” :p

  19. Roman Levin says:

    Crotch shots are out? Then what’s the point in aimed shots now?

  20. Jae Armstrong says:

    At least we have brain bots.

  21. Nick says:

    If you can’t hit a child in the crotch with a sledgehammer, then what’s the point in teaching?

  22. Brother None says:

    I quite liked EDGE magazines recent and rather encouraging preview on Fallout 3, there were some choice comments in it as well:-
    [EDGE proceeds to say exactly the same thing as the 20 previews before it]

    Yeah, I can see how that’s encouraging.

    For me, it’s just old.

    Still, it’s funny for me how absolutely obsessed these game journalists are with the opinion of a small fansite like NMA. “Just a couple of hundred of people”, yet nobody seems to be able to stop talking about us.

    Then again, it’s less funny how bad gaming journalism really is. It’s like nobody ever heard of audi alteram partem. They’ll misrepresent us as much as they like, but actually approach us for a counter-word? Heck no, that’d be proper journalism, and we’ll have none of that (‘cept the Escapist and GFW).

  23. Acosta says:

    Since when NMA is a organization with a sole voice that could give a counter voice? It wouldn’t be an unitary voice as the only common belief about the future of Fallout is that is not what Bethesda is doing. Out of that, is a can of worms where everyone is so passionate about the game that knows 100% where it should go.

  24. kadayi says:

    @Brother None

    It’s not so much to do with their obsession, but more to do with yours Brother None. If it wasn’t for the very vocal protestations regarding Fallout 3 here, there and everywhere by hardcore fans such as yourself I doubt they’d hold you up as a target for ridicule. Acosta makes a good point tbh, if you were perhaps a previous developer like say Warren Spector was with Deus Ex then perhaps the professional press might care for your input on the game, but simply being a longtime fan of a series is no real qualification. Coaches of football clubs don’t listen to advice from the terraces when it comes to how their team plays. Your massive post counts are pretty meaningless tbh.

  25. Moorkh says:

    Lame argument. Computer games are – at least in some people’s minds – a cutlural product and thus involved in a constant interchange between developers and consumers at some level. NMA has been the ‘chruch of Fallout’ for a long time when nobidy cared for the heritage – they do have a certain right to the game, even if copyright law and limited mindsets refuse to recognize it. Using the Fallout label for something that does not respect the legacy is about like adding an official third testament to the bible and designing it as a jump’n’run for Nokia’s NGage…

    In addition to that, both Brother None/Karn and Briosafreak have always stayed respectful in their scepticism. If you want to accuse them for the words of some members of their community, you better hold BethSoft and others to that of theirs.

    BTW, any football coach wanting to keep his job for any lengh of time is bound to listen very closely to elements of the terrace as soon as his luck runs tough for the first time.

  26. Briosafreak says:

    It’s not so much to do with their obsession, but more to do with yours Brother None.

    Actually it was you that started going off topic, because of your own personal obsession with Fallout fans and NMA.

    We were talking about the Dev diary, can we continue now?

    And “poopyface”?… That means a game of M.A.D. is coming!

  27. Nick says:

    “they do have a certain right to the game”

    What about everyone else who loved the games but don’t post there? They are somehow less worthy?

    Although I’m betting a lot of people who don’t post on NMA are still highly dubious of Fallout 3. I know I am.

  28. Moorkh says:

    They have more of a right to it because they cultured it. That’s why. Others just sat back and did nothing, forgot about it for a while and only now come back to it because it’s the new Oblivion.

  29. YogSo says:

    Just my two cents about the concept art:

    I don’t like the design of the robots. They all have a very “unFallouty” appearance, specially the humanoid ones. The rest of the concept art is pretty spot on the visuals of the Fallout universe, but those robots? They could be in any generic sci-fi B-movie. Very meh.

    And Torr was right: bugmen DO exist!

  30. Nick says:

    “They have more of a right to it because they cultured it. That’s why. Others just sat back and did nothing, forgot about it for a while”

    Or maybe they just didn’t post on NMA? A lot of NMA people modded it, enhanced it for others, that’s great and some of the work is fantastic, but sitting around masturbating over it or creating third party enhancements doesn’t give you any more right to it than anyone else. And this is coming from someone who is in agreement with a lot of what the NMA chaps have to say about how F3 is looking. What you are saying just sounds like purely arrogant rubbish.

    You don’t hear the people from Pocketplane group or Gibberlings 3 harping on about how they have some sort of extra special divine right to the Infinity engine games and they are just as dedicated. For example.

  31. Kadayi says:

    They have more of a right to it because they cultured it. That’s why. Others just sat back and did nothing, forgot about it for a while and only now come back to it because it’s the new Oblivion.

    It’s quite disturbing how you seem to have somehow turned a 10 year old computer game into a religion. The idea that unless you’ve squandered years of your life posting on obscure websites obsessively arguing the pros and cons of whether this or that is the best perk to pick, you have no right to comment on the development of Fallout 3 is laughable, and smacks of little more than empty elitist geek snobbery. I’d put the opinions of a broader gamer/reviewer over those of a fanatic on the pros and cons of a new iteration of a franchise any day of the week, because the response is going to be much more measured and meaningful.

    As for Football, I’ve yet to see Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger or Rafa Benitez turn to the terraces at half time for a tactical briefing, and those guys seem to be pretty successful.

    Anyhows, back on topic. I think the art looks very good and the ideas well conceived, I just hope that when it comes down to the game itself the creatures don’t look too generic, and there is a suitable degree of variation, rather than 3 models for this and that. I’m also concerned as to how large the actual game world will be in terms of size. I think fallout does require an epic scale, and suspect simply because of technological constraints it will be less than that.

  32. SwiftRanger says:

    “Although I’m betting a lot of people who don’t post on NMA are still highly dubious of Fallout 3. I know I am.”

    Oh yeah, good luck trying to convince the press about that though.

    The art isn’t bad but it’s clearly no Anderson or Boyarsky. I’d still say something is “odd” about it. Please don’t squash me now.

  33. Moorkh says:

    If you think of games solely in business, materialistic manner, of course you are right – whoever buy the right of a franchise from someone else is the new owner and can do whatever he wants with it.

    However, if you consider games cultural goods, then they are more than that. They in a way forever belong to their authors and to their audience. This cannot just be traded away. Of course, there were people outside of NMA that had played and cherished the games. But those that invested more, that embraced the game this with consequence and thus kept it alive are doubtlessly more entitled to it than others.

    BTW: I don’t agree with much of what the NMA folks demand for, but I believe they have maybe not THE, but some right.

  34. Pijama says:

    You don’t need to be a huge fan of Fallout to notice that BethSoft will not do justice to franchise. Just play Oblivion with a more critical look, and see the flaws. I wouldn’t mind if they were irrelevant… But AWFUL dialogue, four actors to speak for all characters in game and an atrocious lack of effort in the development of story is quite a bad track record when you are making a sequel to a game which is known for it’s amazing atmosphere.

    This isn’t your average RPG. It is Fallout. Do it justice, Bethesda.

    P.S.: Before the post I was trying to find a site which contained all the damn hype (which I fell for) of Oblivion thanks to their blood-powered PR machine. One thing is to exaggerate; other is to make blatant lies. I will try finding it.

  35. Jochen Scheisse says:

    Oh god, the worst thing is always when someone forces the justification debate on some fanboy, because he who does so will make both himself and the fanboy look like total asses. And justifying it isn’t even necessary: Everyone’s got the right to his or her own opinion.

  36. Kadayi says:

    Of course, there were people outside of NMA that had played and cherished the games. But those that invested more, that embraced the game this with consequence and thus kept it alive are doubtlessly more entitled to it than others.

    It’s a game, not the sacred teachings of Jesus Chris. What part of that don’t you quite understand?

    You don’t need to be a huge fan of Fallout to notice that BethSoft will not do justice to franchise. Just play Oblivion with a more critical look, and see the flaws. I wouldn’t mind if they were irrelevant… But AWFUL dialogue, four actors to speak for all characters in game and an atrocious lack of effort in the development of story is quite a bad track record when you are making a sequel to a game which is known for it’s amazing atmosphere.

    @Pijama

    Amusing as it is to anthropomorphise entire companies into mindless unseeing automatons, I think it’s reasonable to assume that Beth are probably well aware of the various criticisms they’ve received regarding Oblivion and won’t necessarily repeat their mistakes. That’s not to say they might not make new ones with Fallout 3, but it would be naïve to assume they will repeat old ones. I’m sure the people working at Beth have as much passion for gaming as anyone else and take pride in their work, and ultimately want to make a good game and one that is better the Oblivion.

    @Jochen

    But they have more rights apparently. Don’t you see, don’t you see? ;)

  37. Jochen Scheisse says:

    That’s a bit mean. Also totally justified, of course :D

    Anyways, it’s not unfair to assume that Bethesda will have problems with the story, because they were never really known for their excellent storytelling. But I think they will try to change this with Fallout.

  38. Nick says:

    The storyline in Daggerfall was pretty interesting I thought..,

  39. Jochen Scheisse says:

    I found the special thing about Fallout was how social interaction could drive the story line, and I can’t remember that Bethesda ever managed to archieve that, in any Elder Scroll game. I really found the dialogue tree one of the most distinguishing features of the Fallout series. Making the character’s general intelligence and skill values influence the dialogue options led the storyline away from the general railroading you experience in many RPGs. Smalltalk options completed the feeling of the places you entered, instead of being random and meaningless. Vampire developed this even further, with skills tieing into your dialogue tree directly (you could choose to roll against intimidation and such) as well as indirectly (options being unlocked by ‘hidden checks’).
    Bethesda tends to produce stat managers with a comparably lame real time combat system (compared to that of Prince of Persia or Dynasty Warriors or even Mount and Blade), excellent graphics and a nice main storyline. But I can understand the doubts people have about them being able to hold and develop the FO social interaction system standard.

  40. Nick says:

    I thought Oblivion’s main storyline was utter tosh (and super short for that matter). In fact the only thing resembling a good storyline in the game was the Dark Brotherhood – which at least shows someone can write there.

  41. Brother None says:

    Since when NMA is a organization with a sole voice that could give a counter voice?

    NMA is an organization was a single voice, as worded by its staff (who are obviously not a “single” voice, but come pretty close). No one else represents NMA.

    As I said, our staff has been interviewed before. It works. If good journalists like The Escapist or the folks from GFW can do it, what’s so hard about it?

    If it wasn’t for the very vocal protestations regarding Fallout 3 here, there and everywhere by hardcore fans such as yourself I doubt they’d hold you up as a target for ridicule.

    I think you mean if it isn’t for those ridiculous idiots that go as far as stating death threats or taking offensive, personal stabs at Bethesda, then…etc. etc.

    We’re not all that insane, though. But if you want to say “those kind of people exist, and they detract from the fanbase as a whole”, I can only agree. They exist, and they do. Even on NMA they’re not the majority, though. I’ve seen collections of overstated negative quotes from NMA before, they tend to all come from two users, Sorrow and Rosh, neither of which post anymore (note: I respect Rosh, but he did overstate his case with some “violent” words)

    but simply being a longtime fan of a series is no real qualification. Coaches of football clubs don’t listen to advice from the terraces when it comes to how their team plays. Your massive post counts are pretty meaningless tbh.

    This isn’t the NFL and Todd Howard is not The Tuna.

    Besides, when it comes to the Fallout fanbase, that’s a *very* novel take. Other than Fallout:BoS, all major Fallout developers have always stayed in touch with the fans, asked for opinions in open debate, and some still post on NMA.

    And that changed, fine, but don’t act like it’s a weird thing to occur. It’s quite normal in the gaming industry, though in decline.

    Also, I’ve given us no qualification at all. You’re twisting things upside down. It’s the magazines and sites that start talking about us, and *then* I say “if they wish to speak for us, they should ask our opinion”, if they stop talking about us, which they never do, it would be fine. That’s audi alteram partem, a core journalistic principle, do not presume to speak for someone who can speak for himself. Since some name NMA *exactly* and speak for it, they do have the journalistic obligation to give us a chance to speak for ourselves. Hell, even Fox does that

    What about everyone else who loved the games but don’t post there? They are somehow less worthy?

    The great thing about Interplay’s era was that everyone who cared to get involved was worthy. Some extremists soured it up somewhat, sure, as did everyone go wrong at some points (MCA, Feargus, even with Sawyer).

    Worthy is such a ridiculous term. As is trying to block of who is a fan or who isn’t. But NMA is the only existing single major entity representing the fanbase. The rest are significantly smaller or single voices. It’s not perfect, but it’s what we have. And since NMA is not insular, anyone can come aboard and argue points.

    It’s a game, not the sacred teachings of Jesus Chris. What part of that don’t you quite understand?

    Attitudes don’t matter. Opinions and arguments do. I don’t care if you think is a car is the second coming of Christ, as long as you can still rationally explain to me how and why it’s better than any other car.

  42. Kadayi says:

    This isn’t the NFL and Todd Howard is not The Tuna.

    The best you can do is wriggle on the words? The analogy is entirely the same whatever the setting. Creators create and fans choose to consume, some creators might chose to engage interactively with their fans (Josh Whedon, Lindelof & Cuse), but ultimately that is their choice, not their obligation or your right as you seem to believe.

    Also I’m surprised you cite The Escapist as ‘good’ Journalists given Russell Pitts permanently banned you for daring to denounce their dismal Witcher Review (Something we actually agree on btw), he’s hardly the gleaming light of the gaming industry. As for GFW, at best they were marvelling at your sites completely overblown and myopic reaction to Jeff Greens initial and fairly innocuous observations as to what Beth were doing with fallout 3 in terms of replicating the visual style of the original games. What Jeff said in his blog:-

    As others have reported, Bethesda seems to have done something kinda miraculous in terms of recapturing the original games’ look and feel while simultaneously transforming it into a modern, 1st-person world. It reminds me, kind of, of the way Blizzard transformed the 2D, tabletop strategy look of the early WarCraft games into the 3D, you’re-soaking-in-it World of
    WarCraft. Bethesda has taken Interplay’s late 90s isometric RPG and swooped the camera down to the ground (though you can still angle it upwards)to put us right in that burned-out post-apocalyptic universe–and, at least as far as the demo goes, it’s freakin’ revelatory. I had no idea going into it how Bethesda was going to pull off the SPECIAL system, the PiPBoy “PDA” device, and, most importantly, the turn-based combat that was at the heart of the original games, but dang if Bethesda isn’t making a smart, thoughtful, and faithful go of it. It actually looks like, if you wanted to, you could play through parts of the game in a more real-time “shooter” way, but clearly players are going to get huge advantages by going into the “V.A.T.S” system (Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System), in which you pause the action, and, as in the original games, target specific enemy body parts, the success of which operates on percentages, and the damage of which can be extraordinary.

    Most important, right now, is what others have said about this work-in-progress: that Bethesda has captured the essence of what made the originals so unique: the odd juxtaposition of apocalyptic future nightmare with retro-50s kitsch, folksy humor mixed with mutant monsters, –a creative challenge that in the wrong hands could be utterly cheeseball, but that Bethesda is so far recreating beautifully.

    If you actually bothered listening to his podcasts and read enough of Jeffs’ articles (I know it’s not your strong point, you prefer to sound byte secondhand) you’d realize that he’s probably about the most reasonable man in games journalism (Kieron comes a close second), but that didn’t stop you collectively turning on him like a pack of rabid dogs in the end, despite his more than sincere attempts to discuss the matter with you. Ultimately short of Black Isle miraculously reforming and buying back the license, there doesn’t seem much that’s every likely to please you.

    Now you say this:-

    NMA is an organization was a single voice, as worded by its staff (who are obviously not a “single” voice, but come pretty close). No one else represents NMA.

    But in the very same post you say this:-

    But NMA is the only existing single major entity representing the fanbase. The rest are significantly smaller or single voices. It’s not perfect, but it’s what we have. And since NMA is not insular, anyone can come aboard and argue points.

    This kind of contradicts the former. Is it a single voice or a collective one? From what I’ve witnessed it’s generally a ‘my way or the highway’ approach, followed by cheers from the arena, as the Christians are fed to the lions. If you were that concerned for your sites image you’d shit can the very people who drag your site down, with their overboard death threats and 7000 word mega rants, but instead it seems as long as you’re ‘hating’ it’s all good at NMA. God help Kieron or Jim when they finally get to (p)review the game at length for Eurogamer, as to how their articles be received by the crowds. Fair and balanced? I think not.

  43. Brother None says:

    The best you can do is wriggle on the words?

    No, the best I can do is point out the analogy is invalid. Because fan opinion is irrelevant in sports, but it is used as a tool in game development. It isn’t for Fallout 3, but that doesn’t mean it’s a general impossibility. Hence the analogy is invalid. That’s all I’m saying.

    but ultimately that is their choice, not their obligation or your right as you seem to believe.

    Please quote where I claimed any entitlement of NMA vis-a-vis Bethesda here? Simple request.

    Also I’m surprised you cite The Escapist as ‘good’ Journalists given Russell Pitts permanently banned you for daring to denounce their dismal Witcher Review (Something we actually agree on btw), he’s hardly the gleaming light of the gaming industry.

    And yet, relatively, they’re strong gaming journalists. Says a lot about the gaming industry, no?

    As for GFW, at best they were marvelling at your sites completely overblown and myopic reaction to Jeff Greens initial and fairly innocuous observations as to what Beth were doing with fallout 3 in terms of replicating the visual style of the original games.

    Or they contacted me, we discussed the article they were doing and why, and I went with it. You assume too much.

    If you actually bothered listening to his podcasts and read enough of Jeffs’ articles (I know it’s not your strong point, you prefer to sound byte secondhand) you’d realize that he’s probably about the most reasonable man in games journalism

    I think assumptions aren’t your strong point. You assume I haven’t been mailing privately with Jeff Green for a long time now, and that we’ve not discussed his and mine attitude towards Fallout 3 and the job of the media in the middle of the fisticuffs Bethesda and NMA are at. You assume wrong.

    You also presume to speak for me. I respect Jeff Green. I have stated so many times.

    Ultimately short of Black Isle miraculously reforming and buying back the license, there doesn’t seem much that’s every likely to please you.

    Uh-huh. You slid in this standard tripe…because? I could point out and discuss the history of NMA, how we tried to make contact with Bethesda but were turned away, how we enforced a wait and see rule. But I think your mind’s already made up, so I see little point. You’re not interested in facts, you just want to write NMA off. Your choice.

    This kind of contradicts the former. Is it a single voice or a collective one?

    Where did I say it was a collective one?

    If you were that concerned for your sites image you’d shit can the very people who drag your site down, with their overboard death threats and 7000 word mega rants, but instead it seems as long as you’re ‘hating’ it’s all good at NMA

    Our ban list includes many people who went too far in their language. Anyone who breaks our rules is out.

    Go to any of the newsthread at the top of the forum now and you’ll see posters disagreeing with us, but being civil and factual. That’s all it takes, for everyone. In this idiotic protracted flame war, there are no innocents, but it is not NMA that wrote off people as “NMA trolls” for having an opinion (that’d be Something Awful, QT3 and NeoGAF), nor NMA who has attempted to hack other people’s sites or their staff computers (again, SA). I’m not going to make protracted excuse, like any community NMA has its flaws and I can live with that. But compare is to that other major Fallout-dedicated forum, the Bethesda Gamesoft Fallout 3 forum, and it’s not hard to figure out where the most civil and sensible discussion happens.

    I think you have twisted views of who is responsible for what here, though. I care about your opinion, but certainly not enough to adapt NMA’s policy to it even if I could (I can’t, I’m not NMA’s boss).

  44. Kadayi says:

    Because fan opinion is irrelevant in sports, but it is used as a tool in game development. It isn’t for Fallout 3, but that doesn’t mean it’s a general impossibility. Hence the analogy is invalid

    You fell at the first hurdle there, try again. The rest is you vaguely attempting to cover your ass in the usual contradictory manner, I’ve come to know and love.

  45. Brother None says:

    I notice you weren’t able to quote me stating any entitlement. Does that mean you want to stop talking? If so, I’m fine with that.

    I’m not going to sit here disputing an analogy which I already explained my viewpoint on, especially since the analogy isn’t important when the viewpoints are already clear and don’t need extra explaining.

    If you wish to continue actually talking, I’ll be here.

  46. Kadayi says:

    I notice you weren’t able to quote me stating any entitlement. Does that mean you want to stop talking? If so, I’m fine with that.

    You claimed it when you stated NMA was an organization with a collective voice rather than merely a fansite to support Moorkhs bizarre assertions regarding NMAs legitimacy of opinion above all others.

    As for how NMA is run, you still haven’t answered me from a previous thread why this guy got banned:-

    http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41857

    No swearing, no trolling, just looking for answers (albeit naively). But banned outright.

    Whereas our good friends Sorrow & Rosh, practically calling for the murder of the entire Beth team, and any games journalist who likes the look of Fallout 3 are still posting. ;)

  47. Brother None says:

    That was in the context of speaking of journalists using audi alteram partem. In fact, in this entire comment bit, all I have been talking about is journalists presuming to speak for fans without bothering to check with the biggest fansite. You put words in my mouth that this relates to me claiming Bethesda should listen to NMA. Again, where did I claim that?

    And I thought I made it clear last time: I do not agree with that ban. There are plenty of bans I don’t agree with. Note how I did not claim above that NMA is perfectly run, I claimed it’s better run than places like BGSF. And so it is. But I don’t run NMA. I’ll see if I can get this one lifted and yes, I probably should’ve done so before.

    I already said neither Sorrow nor Rosh is actively posting. Rosh returned a bit but left again, Sorrow left ages ago and was about to be banned anyway. Why do you say they’re posting only a few posts after I point out they’re not?

  48. Kadayi says:

    Why would or should a Games Journalist bother to speak to a fanbase, or a specific fan site for their opinions? GFW did you an unusual courtesy tbf, and that was only in light of NMAs vilification of Jeff Greens blog post. A games Journalists responsibility is to convey to his/her readers the nature of the game as a whole experience, not to get bogged down into minutiae regarding what’s come before.

    No games Journalists are out there bemoaning the fact that in GTAIV Liberty City is nothing like Liberty City in GTA 3. I’m quite sure there are some fans of the series railing against that very matter, but is it fair to assume their views even if organized represent the opinions of all, or that those opinions should used to attempt to hamstring the project? If it fair and reasonable to put continuity above creativity?

  49. dhex says:

    long story short, the moral of all things we learn from the internet is the same:

    liking anything is bad.

  50. Brother None says:

    Kadayi: I don’t know if you’re just trolling or really misreading, but I repeat: *IF* game journalists pretend to speak for us, it becomes their duty to apply audi alteram partem because that’s journalism, *IF* they never mention us or pretend to speak for us, they have no such obligation.

    I’ve repeated that multiple times now, very clearly, and you’re either being obtuse in your intended disliking of NMA or – sorry – kind of stupid.