Brand new Left 4 Dead in-game footage? Blimey. I only just noticed these two clips because I was off talking to people at Nordic Game for most of the week, and it was a fun time. I’ll probably talk more about that over the weekend, because lots of stuff happened. Anyway, after the jump are those two new trailers, which show lots of speedy-looking in-game footage. Perhaps even sped up a little? I can’t tell, my brain is in perceptual neutral.
The “meatgrinder” trailer shows plenty of zombie-death, and some of that vital saving-your-friends stuff. Not sure about that music though – sounds like mid-90s scrolling-shooter title screen track to me.
A good glimpse of the teamplay in this, er, teamplay trailer. You get to see how you can be dragged to your feet and saved by chums during the fight. Nail-biting stuff, or it would be if you weren’t so busy rekilling the undead.
If I can ever get any spare time to work it up I’m going to try and post a detailed preview of Left 4 Dead. I’ve played it a couple of times now and I think the big write-up might be overdue…
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It’s rather a strawman to respond to my description of a trend with a few examples that are exceptions to the rule, including one which isn’t even that and is in fact an affirmation of my contention with Halo, given the geriatric agility of the protagonist and the inaccuracy of the weapons, being a classic example of the general trend towards slower and more realistic (or the common perception of what realism amounts to). If I was to list the games with a strong emphasis on realism or those strongly inspired by the movement in that direction we’d be here until Christmas. As a more brief illumination of this fact, just compare 10 random games from this year with 10 from before the millennium and note the differences in player agility and stamina, weapon accuracy (and how it is affected by stance), enemy visibility, and enemy health, to name but a few major aspects of shooters which have changed significantly with negative consequences for skill depth, skill range, variety, consistency, fairness, interactivity and combat depth, among others. This isn’t dogma, since I’m not suggesting that games should be totally unrealistic in every case, but is instead a suggestion that developers think more carefully before implementing features, rather than just chucking them in because they’re supposedly more realistic or part of a wider trend.
How can you be sure at this early stage that there’s no tension? Valve claim that this is achieved by their AI director which varies the pace and intensity of encounters, and given their track record in terms of general game design, but more specifically atmosphere sustenance and pacing, I’m inclined to believe them. Creation of tension is all about peaks and troughs, fear of the unknown and unexpected, the lulls between battles contemplating what’s to come and the fear during them that you may not be able to hold off against such a varied onslaught. While I acknowledge that holding off a slow moving mass could provoke apprehension, the uniformity of it would quickly become obvious, and thus the player would be swiftly inured to such a one-dimensional approach to fomenting tension.
Iron sights can create interesting trade-offs, but there are plenty of interesting choices that can be created without removing a massive chunk of the game in the form of movement. My other objections to that aiming model centre on a dislike for weapons defaulting to random and inaccurate in an unaimed state, effectively lowering interactivity due to the computer determining whether a player is accurate rather than the player’s skill and the simple annoyance of the ‘press mouse2 to aim properly’ system, which makes combat feels needlessly repetitive, unresponsive and stilted. That sensation would only be magnified in a fast-paced game which is wave-based. Furthermore the secondary fire melee system looks fantastic, adds an additional skill and creates more interesting tactical possibilities than iron sights.
On 28 Days Later we’ll agree to disagree. I thought the ending was a little bit jarring too, but not ruinously so.
I’m glad the zombies run instead of shuffle around like clueless idiots. Indeed, fast-moving zombies serve the whole AI “Director” concept nicely: moments of frantic fighting and zombie dodging followed by moments of regrouping and assessment. Shaking up the pacing, as the Director aims to do, would be more difficult if the zombies were a slow-moving mass.
But the overall movements seem “off,” as in the timing doesn’t match up or the game is played on some fast setting.
EDITS: The world and his dog (2 people!) posted in the time it took me…
“Also, 28 Days Later is overrated. Zombies? Fine. Soldiers who turn into sex crazed rapists after 3 weeks, assuming civilian evacuation took a week, and happily try to have sex with a worryingly young girl? Not so much fine.”
First off – yeah the ending wasn’t what it should have been. But then as far as they knew the world was basically over. Ignore that (and the sequel) and you have one of the few decent Zombie films out there.
Secondly – THERAILMCCOY made a decent post & I have to say I agree with most of the points.
A “slow moving wall of rotten flesh” isn’t scary to me. As it get’s nearer it’s less about panic, and more about the excitement of “how long can I leave it before I turn and run up the street to get another 5minutes of un-interupted shooting”. Fast zombies on the other hand, at least in HL2, had me running around in circles like a headless chicken shouting obcenities at the screen.
Anyway – the trailers would be better with in-game sound. I’d like to see a video of a couple of people actually playing it (both the survivors & the zombie teams) to see how people actually react. The idea is great, im just not overly convinced it’ll meet expectations.
Hey guys, I run a fansite for Left 4 Dead that has more information if you’re interested: Left 4 Dead 411.
A bunch of new videos have come out this week, and I think this one from GameVideos is the best: http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/18853.
I’ll say what I’ve been saying ever since I first found out about this game (which was on RPS, come to think of it):
“Holy s*** that looks intense!”
Hmm, the video above on gamevideos.com shows things off a bit better.
Still looks a bit faster than I’d like, pretty much CS+Zombies. But then there are a pretty hefty chunk of people that play CS, so that could be exactly the style they are aiming for :)
My theory is that, in general, zombie fiction is appealing because it always–at least partly–centers around ordinary people. I think this makes it frightening because it’s essentially the idea of survival distilled: fight and flight. Ordinary, vulnerable people (like you) struggling against an elemental force of violence.
So I think the problem with the speed in Left4Dead (or the videos, at least), is that it’s fundamentally at odds with how most people unconsciously relate to zombie fiction. As soon you give any of the protagonists extra-normal ability (speed, durability, etc), they’re no longer as vulnerable as you are, and the appeal of the genre is lost.
That said, everyone at Valve is stupidly talented, and there’s no reason not to think this game will be fantastic in its own way. It’ll just be fantastic because it’s a Valve FPS, not because it’s a particularly thoughtful approach to the source material.
running zombies = impossible
zombie are by definition, a slow moving mass that can only be stopped by destroying the brain, ie. headshots
i will forget this game and await a proper (max brooks inspired) zombie game, fuck the hollywood zombies.
PS. how much does Valve have to do with this game, last i hear it was Turtle Rock that was bought by Valve, which is not Valve developed. Besides what has has Valve really done but ruin the CS/DOD license?
born2expire, you know you WILL play this game as soon as you see how good it is! :)
THERAILMCCOY – Your my new forum Hero, never before has someones arguement been so well written, makes a change to the usual people talking arse about something they have not even played yet!
As for L4D this is the game I have always been waiting for, a CS Clan Player myself I’ve been waiting for a team based shooter to grab my atention for a while now, and this is it! It has FAST ‘Infected in it and a load of guns and a team small enough to to house my close gaming buddies, what else could I ask for!?
Chaps it’s a game about shooting zombies.
Um. It’s probably for the best they didn’t include sound for most of those videos, because apparently the devs think that being brutally savaged by a pack of bloodthirsty zombies sounds like someone emptying a bottle of merlot on the floor.
Also the glow thing is a pretty poor idea I think. First impression I got was that it was far too difficult to tell team members from zombs, because everyone was wearing toilet-cubicle grey. Compare with Mirror’s Edge, where everything’s colour-coordinated. The glow effect just seems unimaginative and clunky.
Oh, and it looks a bit too fast for my liking.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that key element: It’s a game about shooting zombies. There’s a 4 on 4 mode. There’s thousands upon thousands of mindless zombies. Making them slower will be easily moddable. What’s the issue?
Bobsy: It’s so you can see them through walls and thinsg.
No, its a game about shooting ‘Infected’ is it not? I feel they are very different things, Zombie is something dead and depicted as being slow and dumb. These are ‘Infected’ and are seen to be fast and agresive much like the classic british film 28 Days Later.
Either way, its going to be a top game!
I agree in part with what THERAILMCCOY said; I do think faster Zombies is more frenetic, more thrilling, I don’t necessarily think iron-sights need to be relied on to achieve tension, especially since it’s geared around fast-paced action. They just don’t fit that playstyle.
But I do think the general animations and movement in that vid are too fast. You need to keep an element of believability for the zombies to have any ‘fear factor’ at all. Part of it is that on a basic level they can swarm and kill you, but another part is obviously that they are monstruous and horrific. You cannot get away from the fact that their physical representation is designed to tap into a player’s psyche and make the experience more vivid, more (sur)real. So why do they go and spoil it all with Benny Hill animations?
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As a sidenote, there are many reasons why slower-paced, more ‘realistic’ multiplayer is adopted more and more. First off, because your life is more valuable, it promotes teamwork and strategy, which in turn promotes in-game communication and out-of-game discussion of tactics, and the forging of competitive and casual clans, which in turn promotes a community, which in turn keeps the game being played for longer and more sales.
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And I have to disagree with your comment:
In this climate, it’s so refreshing to see Valve stick to what they’ve always done, innovating in certain areas of the genre
With the exception of the Half-Life series and TF2, Valve have mostly bought out the things that really shook up genres (think sales and titles). Team Fortress Classic was a reimagination of Quake CTF (even TF2 borrows heavily from TFC’s maps). Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat were successful mods long before Valve had anything to do with them and Portal was an excellent working game concept that has been taken from strength to strength. But none of these were originally Valve ideas, not even Left for Dead!
If you look at the sorts of things Valve have done to these games you could argue there are many mistakes. In CS:Source Valve turned Militia into an HDR chugfest, forgoing performance for looks, in addition to releasing some abysmal new maps. They added ‘crits’ to the Team Fortress genre, and now unachievable, achievement-locked weapons. They mixed up the DoD weapons for DoD:S, making them ludicrously innaccurate and virtually unmanageable, plus added a bunch of superfluous scratchy cinemetic fluff.
Give credit for what Valve are good at, sure, but don’t be under any illusions that much of what they have is down to reiteration, not necessarily innovation, and that they haven’t always respected the strengths of the games that came before. They are mostly clever at spotting good ideas relatively early thus harnessing creative talent and pairing it with expertise, and spending long enough on a project to make it better than standard, including a QA process rivalled by none.
it’s apparantly a mutant form of rabies, therefore they aren’t dead, thus running is permitted!
So when is this thing coming out?
That last video posted in the comments (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/18853) really helps to bring back my expectancy level for the game. I’ve been psyched about it ever since it was announced, but I have a way of letting all the negative shitstorm around something get to me. That video showed something of what it’s like playing it, the tension, etc.
Its being released sometime in Q3 – it is Valve though…
Blimey, sir! I can’t get the video loading!
*ok, watched it now, everything needs change, diversity. CS crackheads tend to disagree though. Will it last long enough to make a visible impact?
I don’t mind that the zombies (whatever) are fast, only that it looks like they stand around when you’re shooting them, as in the video that Monkfish posted. I hope that’s just an AI problem they’ve yet to fix.
I love that bit at the end of the Gamevideos trailer where they all have to get into the safe room.
about 28 Days Later: anyone who was a bit put off by the talky bits but enjoyed the rest should check out 27 Days Later, it’s a fan edit of the original, cutting some of the scenes in the second half. It’s done really well (you can’t spot the joins) and might be the movie you were hoping for.
http://fanedit.org/wpTF/?p=31
Wow, a lot of sticks up a lot of asses here. THERAILMCCOY is a good lad though!
I think it looks severly amusing and intense, it’s going to be a blast to play with friends.
Also, Radiant needs to be quoted for truth:
“Chaps it’s a game about shooting zombies.”
Word.
All I can say is that it doesn’t look like any zombie film i’ve ever seen. I’d have thought a studio that’s involved with the team that made Ravenholme could have come up with something much better.
Just looks like a game of CS played with bots.
People’s perception of what they feel zombies should be like interfering with their expectations for this game I feel
So, basically, people like railmccoy and me who mainlined quake and UT games for a decade don’t like slower, less accurate games because it makes us feel crippled. And you need fast enemies if you’re fast yourself otherwise it’s boring – imagine dropping a Q3 character into Resi 4, it’d be a walkover.
Secondly, zombies just aren’t scary in themselves any more. The concept is overused, and these days it doesn’t mean communism (scary) but consumerism (”Check it out I bought a Wii! Yeah!”). Check out Shawn of the Dead or google for zombie plush toys… these days, zombies are cute. At best, they’re just something you can shoot or disembowel utterly guilt-free, making them excellent FPS opponents, but the only way to make them actually scary is to have them jump out at you.
Fast infected makes sense.
The virus is not even transmitted by attacks. They had to use running zombies or it would be the easiest game ever.
Zombies = Communism? NO WAI! OMG ZOMBIE PHILOSOPHY FIGHT!
The Zombie concept stands for mindless conformism. While that could stand for Communism, it could also stand for mindless capitalist consumerism. The original Dawn of the Dead was not about Communism!
“People’s perception of what they feel zombies should be like interfering with their expectations for this game I feel”
Which is only natural, surely?
(in fact, my main problem isn’t that they are fast, it’s HOW fast they AND the survivors move)
I think we agree about the philosophy. My point was that people *like* mindless capitalist consumerism, because it provides us with awesome stuff like HDTVs, air conditioning and microwavable lasagna. People go to shopping malls to relax. People even like conformism in general; it gives safety in numbers, and provides an identity and a convenient external and easily recognisable enemy.
Therefore zombies aren’t scary.
underground airport, if you dont think zombie are scary read “world war Z: an oral history of the zombie war” and it will compeltely change your opinion of zombies. Just the thought of a brainless unstoppable horde of zombies scares the shit outta me. seriously NOTHING will stop a horde of zombies outside of destroying the brain, nothing.
“People’s perception of what they feel zombies should be like interfering with their expectations for this game I feel”
obviously, i wont watch movies with running and smart zombies so why would i play a game with that? I’ll just wait for dead island.
So zombies and piracy.
The two things guaranteed to ignite an RPS comment thread.
Pirates of the Caribbean must have touched a lot of bases with you guys.
Also why didn’t you shit the bed over Last Stand 2?
Flash games not worthy of your ire?
Ha, born2expire, you think you’re king nerd but you’re not! I refuse to play Pac-Man because people can’t eat ghosts.
Pac-man isn’t a person, your logic is flawed.
And infected aren’t zombies. And none of these things are real.
Also, I happen to know that there are pills that can make you see and eat ghosts.
@Gundam Janitor: I know that fast zombies aren’t real, only the real zombies are real. What do you think I am, crazy?
A zombie speeds up only when they are within lunging distance of a human. The rest of the time they shamble, or sit there…waiting, always waiting for you to come out. Read the comic: The Walking Dead and tell me zombies are not scary. They slowly move in yes, but from all directions and before you know it there is one behind you, always count on that.
Renaming zombies to the so called infected is an insult to the genre and the fans. Don’t try to tell me they are something completely different, they are a cop-out. They are zombie lite.
I see a game where there are no points for killing insane numbers, where it does not matter how many weapons you have nor what type. Its all about survival. Its about building barricades that you hope will hold. Its about scavenging for resources in a world that has fallen down. Its about blowing off a limb and they still keep coming. I hope that Dead Island is that game.
If Walking Dead Zombies were canon, we’d all walk around like this:
http://tonymooreillustration.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=449
See, I thought I was a big zombie nut. Not only am I writing up how to secure my apartment complex from a zombie threat (it would actually work really well, depending on the version of the undead), I integrated a stickman zombie assistant into a powerpoint presentation–in a grad-level program. But there are some intense zomb-ites around here.
I know, of the zombies I’ve seen on film, I’d pick Romero’s to actualy have to deal with (pre-Land). “Return of…” zombies? Forget it. Just off yourself and be done with it.
Running zombies & walking zombies serve different purposes. Walking ones are kind of a sad tool for social commentary, a horror thing. Fast ones are more about action. Sort of horror vs. terror, if that makes sense.
You know I really don’t remember Valve or Turtle Rock calling them ‘Zombies’ I’m sure they are ‘Infected’ just like the film 28 Days Later.
ZOMBIE:
a. the body of a dead person given the semblance of life, but mute and will-less, by a supernatural force, usually for some evil purpose.
b. the supernatural force itself.
Thats the meaning Zombie, I really think the beings shown in all the footage of this game thus far really are far from being Dead, Mute and Will-less!
I find that statement incredulous tbh. Zombies, guns and the killing of said Zombies with said guns, whilst seeking safety tend to be the staple ingredients of pretty much all the Zombie films I’ve seen.
Like CS, but for a lack of rounds, lack of purchase options, lack of bombsite to plant/defend or Hostages to guard/rescue? So not really much like CS at all really then? It’s ok to be down on a game if it’s not your cup of tea, but lazy analogies serve no good purpose but to demonstrate the ignorance of the poster.
I can see the appeal to the slow moving wall of flesh desire some people have, but to carry it out successfully would require the game to have thousands of zombies to convey the necessary sense of threat, and even with todays PCs and Graphics cards that’s just not presently feasible. To do a true survival horror Zombie experience, it’s more about avoiding confrontation that embracing it.
“I find that statement incredulous tbh. Zombies, guns and the killing of said Zombies with said guns, whilst seeking safety tend to be the staple ingredients of pretty much all the Zombie films I’ve seen.”
Yes, and people kissing is a staple of a romance film yet Romeo and Juliet had a hell of a lot more than just spit swapping. Where’s the barricades? The OTT gore? The ammo conservation? The makeshift weaponry? The teamwork?
And by CS I rather obviously meant the fact that everyone seems to be running around in circles whilst wearing soap rollerskates on floors of ball bearings and immersion destroying crouching on top of inch thick pieces of scenery to get better shots. So please don’t get all condescending with me when you don’t even posses the basic brain-power to compare and contrast the styles of two different things.
“… but to carry it out successfully would require the game to have thousands of zombies to convey the necessary sense of threat, and even with todays PCs and Graphics cards that’s just not presently feasible.”
Yeah, it’s called Dead Rising and comments like that just go to show how ignorant a poster you are.
The game just looks like co-op Serious Sam. Dozens of face-less, brain-less things running towards your circle strafing gun with a limitless ammo supply. When I see a video that utilises the impressive physics of the Source engine to keep the zombies at bay and some actual co-operative play(I mean, come on. It’s not hard to have a section with someone providing assistance with a sniper rifle whilst someone else rushes from cover to cover, or a vehicle/gunner section. Halo’s been doing basic stuff like that for years) then i’ll get excited. This just looks like a wasted opportunity.
(Also, that shotgun-metal door incident. WHAT? I have never seen anything behave that way in my LIFE. It looked like someone was melting a hole through a balloon)
They’re Infected, not Zombies. Zombies are slow, Infected are fast, that really seems like a convention of the genre at this point.
At this point I don’t see any interesting gameplay in L4D. It seems like these critters just run up at you at 20 miles an hour, STOP, and then start wailing on you. The main problem is that it seems to take a minute of uninterrupted wailing before you fall down, and then you’ve got another minute before you’re actually dead. Where’s the tension?
I’m not saying it has to be like Zombie Master, it definitely has some advantages since the infected in L4D will spawn around the corner instead of 5 – 15 nasty as hell HULKS appearing all around you and instantly killing you which can happen with a bad ZM in Zombie Master. But, ZM had a good sense of lethality, of danger. It’s a very difficult game to master, even moreso if the current ZM is a total ballbusting dick.
Left 4 Dead may also have its challenging moments, but it seems like more of a reflex test. It seems to have more in common with an arcade Shoot’Em’Up than an “experiential / immersive” FPS like Half-Life.
Christ, this thread is worse than a Trekkie argument. Look, if you want Dawn of the Dead, play Dead Rising. Otherwise, accept this game for what it is and bear in mind that pretty much every game journo who has played it says its brilliant.
You guys really need to watch a couple of the dev interviews on L4D. Specially about the player-controlled zombie characters and the AI.
Not to mention the fact that the zombies react to you in several different ways. Some will shamble toward you, some will rush you, some will run away only to show back up again later when you aren’t expecting it with more of their friends! The game gets harder if your doing well and eases up on you if you’re taking a beating, making for a dynamic game experience every time. Every article I’ve read on this game says you can’t play it like a typical fps, your going to get eaten.
I think the speed makes sense in the context of infected rather than zombied as others have suggested, I’d also agree with the tactical benefits that a slower speed could not produce.
I found the amount of health you appear to have and your extraordinary strong resolve in reloading a clip whilst being gang-eaten to be the most jarring.
Left4Dead – Left 4 videogame journalists screeching like soon-to-be-dead big girl’s blouses during a recent EA trip.
And one of them was from PC Gamer. So, er, there. It’s one of the most exhilarating games I’ve ever played.
I guess the problem is – by the sound of it – the videos are shit and don’t show how good it is at all.
ohh, just saw this:
“And infected aren’t zombies. And none of these things are real.”
Yeah, no shit, it was a joke.
I want to know more about playing as the Infected. Can they cooperate with each other – communicate and see each other through walls and so on?
I’m really hyped about this game but I wish they would stop selling it, it won’t be out till late Q4.