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	<title>Comments on: The Trouble With Demos</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/</link>
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		<title>By: Anonymousity</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-51530</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymousity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 05:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-51530</guid>
		<description>I think one of the best demos I ever played was the fallout 1 demo 10 years ago I hadn&#039;t heard of the game but as soon as I played the modified with it&#039;s own little cosmos of quests junktown map I was hooked</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the best demos I ever played was the fallout 1 demo 10 years ago I hadn&#8217;t heard of the game but as soon as I played the modified with it&#8217;s own little cosmos of quests junktown map I was hooked</p>
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		<title>By: malkav11</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50815</link>
		<dc:creator>malkav11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 23:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50815</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that the majority of the essential issues with demos can be fixed, at this point. It would certainly help to design the game with the intent of being able to easily splash out a demo at the end of the development process, but even so, with the size of today&#039;s game assets and so on, I have a hard time seeing demos for 8-12 gig games that are going to clock in at less than 4-6, y&#039;know? And that&#039;s just way too much downloading for the snippet of content demos generally offer. If it&#039;s substantial play for the size, that&#039;s great. But how do you offer that if the game itself is under 10 hours? (as so many of the enormous installing games are...something I appreciate, actually, as it means I can more quickly reclaim that space.)

At the same time, one really does need to be able to try the game in advance of purchase. Reviews help but aren&#039;t going to address your unique set of tastes and hardware setup. So yes, for some people, the solution they&#039;ve hit upon is piracy. Obviously that&#039;s not one that&#039;s very industry-friendly. What I&#039;d like to see is a PC gaming rental option similar to console rental outfits like Gamefly (or the in-store rental options of places like Blockbuster and Hollywood Video). Better still, integration of PC gaming rentals with the console gaming rental plans. I&#039;m more than happy to pay 15-30 bucks a month to try a number of games at once and then purchase the ones with staying power.

Of course, the obstacle is piracy. So I don&#039;t know what to do, frankly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that the majority of the essential issues with demos can be fixed, at this point. It would certainly help to design the game with the intent of being able to easily splash out a demo at the end of the development process, but even so, with the size of today&#8217;s game assets and so on, I have a hard time seeing demos for 8-12 gig games that are going to clock in at less than 4-6, y&#8217;know? And that&#8217;s just way too much downloading for the snippet of content demos generally offer. If it&#8217;s substantial play for the size, that&#8217;s great. But how do you offer that if the game itself is under 10 hours? (as so many of the enormous installing games are&#8230;something I appreciate, actually, as it means I can more quickly reclaim that space.)</p>
<p>At the same time, one really does need to be able to try the game in advance of purchase. Reviews help but aren&#8217;t going to address your unique set of tastes and hardware setup. So yes, for some people, the solution they&#8217;ve hit upon is piracy. Obviously that&#8217;s not one that&#8217;s very industry-friendly. What I&#8217;d like to see is a PC gaming rental option similar to console rental outfits like Gamefly (or the in-store rental options of places like Blockbuster and Hollywood Video). Better still, integration of PC gaming rentals with the console gaming rental plans. I&#8217;m more than happy to pay 15-30 bucks a month to try a number of games at once and then purchase the ones with staying power.</p>
<p>Of course, the obstacle is piracy. So I don&#8217;t know what to do, frankly.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50547</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 00:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50547</guid>
		<description>I dont agree with (much) earlier comment that game without demos arent likely to be good. There&#039;s far too many counter examples to list. But aside from that, I was really impressed with the (please don&#039;t shout at me) Wind Waker demo. But I guess Zelda game mechanics - give ability, present immediate practice of it - lend themselves to a demo. Plus giving away one cool use of major tool is a great tease to inspire full purchase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont agree with (much) earlier comment that game without demos arent likely to be good. There&#8217;s far too many counter examples to list. But aside from that, I was really impressed with the (please don&#8217;t shout at me) Wind Waker demo. But I guess Zelda game mechanics &#8211; give ability, present immediate practice of it &#8211; lend themselves to a demo. Plus giving away one cool use of major tool is a great tease to inspire full purchase.</p>
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		<title>By: Rockeye</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50391</link>
		<dc:creator>Rockeye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 09:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50391</guid>
		<description>Some of the best demos that I remember were:

Command &amp; Conquer: Three levels from the GDI campaign, the first mission, the commando mission and a later base building mission that gave access to a fair amount of the tech tree. I played it to death, then bought the game. I liked how the demo missions were slightly different from the actual in game ones.

Jedi Knight II: A custom level just for the demo that introduced the good parts of the game that a standard first-level-of-the-game demo wouldn&#039;t have had (force powers, lightsaber battles). I played through it after completing the actual game because it was new content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the best demos that I remember were:</p>
<p>Command &amp; Conquer: Three levels from the GDI campaign, the first mission, the commando mission and a later base building mission that gave access to a fair amount of the tech tree. I played it to death, then bought the game. I liked how the demo missions were slightly different from the actual in game ones.</p>
<p>Jedi Knight II: A custom level just for the demo that introduced the good parts of the game that a standard first-level-of-the-game demo wouldn&#8217;t have had (force powers, lightsaber battles). I played through it after completing the actual game because it was new content.</p>
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		<title>By: Grandstone</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50307</link>
		<dc:creator>Grandstone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 21:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50307</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Zeno.  I download demos to make sure if I can actually &lt;i&gt;run&lt;/i&gt; a game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Zeno.  I download demos to make sure if I can actually <i>run</i> a game.</p>
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		<title>By: Dinger</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50302</link>
		<dc:creator>Dinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 21:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50302</guid>
		<description>Okami -- granted, but these days, we don&#039;t call games that give you their first levels free &quot;shareware&quot;. We call them demos with content that can be activated. And yeah, to nitpick, the distinction is that shareware can be freely copied and distributed, while the games these days have distribution schemes in place that make swapping files kinda silly. Anyway, &lt;i&gt;business model&lt;/i&gt; aside, the &lt;i&gt;Demo Scheme&lt;/i&gt; is the same: develop a game, give away as demo the first part. It&#039;s quick-n-dirty, and it only works with some games. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t work in the industry, but would it be so difficult and expensive to tell a small part of the team to put together a level/map/stage that shows a little bit of everything and is specially tailored to whet the players appetite?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yeah, it seems obvious. But videogames are weird. First, it&#039;s a creative field with shifting technology goalposts. Second, it&#039;s one where there are relatively few &quot;old hands&quot;, and those that are there, grew up in a different era.
So development times grow longer, often longer than even the vets (if you have any) predict. (Well, sure, it&#039;d be nice to have some folks whose job it was purely to predict, but if you could afford them, you&#039;d rather spend the money paying that person to tell you whom to hire).
If you&#039;re not established, you usually have to get money from somewhere, and that involves selling your soul to a deadline nobody can predict, but that economics require be sooner rather than later. And, if you&#039;re not established, that&#039;s where a demo really matters. So often companies are screwed: by the time the product is mature enough to build a demo, they don&#039;t have time to put together a good one. The result: no love for the demo; players have no love for the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okami &#8212; granted, but these days, we don&#8217;t call games that give you their first levels free &#8220;shareware&#8221;. We call them demos with content that can be activated. And yeah, to nitpick, the distinction is that shareware can be freely copied and distributed, while the games these days have distribution schemes in place that make swapping files kinda silly. Anyway, <i>business model</i> aside, the <i>Demo Scheme</i> is the same: develop a game, give away as demo the first part. It&#8217;s quick-n-dirty, and it only works with some games. </p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t work in the industry, but would it be so difficult and expensive to tell a small part of the team to put together a level/map/stage that shows a little bit of everything and is specially tailored to whet the players appetite?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, it seems obvious. But videogames are weird. First, it&#8217;s a creative field with shifting technology goalposts. Second, it&#8217;s one where there are relatively few &#8220;old hands&#8221;, and those that are there, grew up in a different era.<br />
So development times grow longer, often longer than even the vets (if you have any) predict. (Well, sure, it&#8217;d be nice to have some folks whose job it was purely to predict, but if you could afford them, you&#8217;d rather spend the money paying that person to tell you whom to hire).<br />
If you&#8217;re not established, you usually have to get money from somewhere, and that involves selling your soul to a deadline nobody can predict, but that economics require be sooner rather than later. And, if you&#8217;re not established, that&#8217;s where a demo really matters. So often companies are screwed: by the time the product is mature enough to build a demo, they don&#8217;t have time to put together a good one. The result: no love for the demo; players have no love for the game.</p>
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		<title>By: Gurrah</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50288</link>
		<dc:creator>Gurrah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 20:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50288</guid>
		<description>I do remember that demo Darius, it was awesome! There were so many facets to it. I was still young and fairly new to gaming so it took a few, and by few I mean at least 20, tries and restarts before I was actually able to get into the cellar. I don&#039;t know if it was because of the demo, but JA2 is still one of my favourite games, there is nothing like it out there. Thanks for reminding me of that wonderful piece of my gaming history :)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do remember that demo Darius, it was awesome! There were so many facets to it. I was still young and fairly new to gaming so it took a few, and by few I mean at least 20, tries and restarts before I was actually able to get into the cellar. I don&#8217;t know if it was because of the demo, but JA2 is still one of my favourite games, there is nothing like it out there. Thanks for reminding me of that wonderful piece of my gaming history :)!</p>
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		<title>By: Darius K.</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50270</link>
		<dc:creator>Darius K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 19:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50270</guid>
		<description>The finest demo of all time is the Jagged Alliance 2 demo. It was a custom level (or rather set of levels) that showed off several key systems of the game. It was entirely contrived, you&#039;d never run into that combination of  location types and weapons in the real game, but they made it work and even gave the level its own unique narrative arc. The demo was released a full year before the game, and yet I must have played through it once a week for that entire year!!

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.download.com/Jagged-Alliance-2-demo/3000-7562_4-10022398.html?cdlPid=895134&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;You can still get it here.&lt;/a&gt; Although I haven&#039;t tested the download itself, it was added in 1998 so I&#039;m pretty sure it&#039;s the right one.

By the way, don&#039;t confuse this with the Jagged Alliance 2 &quot;demo&quot; that&#039;s the full game with a 2-hour timer. That was released by Strategy First a few years back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The finest demo of all time is the Jagged Alliance 2 demo. It was a custom level (or rather set of levels) that showed off several key systems of the game. It was entirely contrived, you&#8217;d never run into that combination of  location types and weapons in the real game, but they made it work and even gave the level its own unique narrative arc. The demo was released a full year before the game, and yet I must have played through it once a week for that entire year!!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.download.com/Jagged-Alliance-2-demo/3000-7562_4-10022398.html?cdlPid=895134" rel="nofollow">You can still get it here.</a> Although I haven&#8217;t tested the download itself, it was added in 1998 so I&#8217;m pretty sure it&#8217;s the right one.</p>
<p>By the way, don&#8217;t confuse this with the Jagged Alliance 2 &#8220;demo&#8221; that&#8217;s the full game with a 2-hour timer. That was released by Strategy First a few years back.</p>
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		<title>By: Gurrah</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50259</link>
		<dc:creator>Gurrah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 18:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50259</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t work in the industry, but would it be so difficult and expensive to tell a small part of the team to put together a level/map/stage that shows a little bit of everything and is specially tailored to whet the players apetite? And all of that should happen DURING the development process, not 2 months after the game has been released. The biggest problem with all those games getting deeper stories and narratives is giving away too much in the demo, why not make it more or less essential to play the demo with bits of storyline that accompany and complement the final game. This way you can get players hooked on the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t work in the industry, but would it be so difficult and expensive to tell a small part of the team to put together a level/map/stage that shows a little bit of everything and is specially tailored to whet the players apetite? And all of that should happen DURING the development process, not 2 months after the game has been released. The biggest problem with all those games getting deeper stories and narratives is giving away too much in the demo, why not make it more or less essential to play the demo with bits of storyline that accompany and complement the final game. This way you can get players hooked on the story.</p>
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		<title>By: alphaxion</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50257</link>
		<dc:creator>alphaxion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 18:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50257</guid>
		<description>rich: that&#039;s not mentioning the issue of companies not selling you the software but selling the license to use the software and declaring in your eula that the license is non-transferable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rich: that&#8217;s not mentioning the issue of companies not selling you the software but selling the license to use the software and declaring in your eula that the license is non-transferable.</p>
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		<title>By: RichPowers</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50255</link>
		<dc:creator>RichPowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 18:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50255</guid>
		<description>Reselling PC games on eBay isn&#039;t illegal, in the US at least, thanks to the first sale doctrine.

However, DRM schemes (like limiting the number of installs) are technological means to circumvent the first sale doctrine.

I buy the vast majority of my PC games on eBay for $10 or so because that&#039;s the most I&#039;m willing to pay. Therefore, I don&#039;t always need a demo because I can live with a $10 loss if the game is crappy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reselling PC games on eBay isn&#8217;t illegal, in the US at least, thanks to the first sale doctrine.</p>
<p>However, DRM schemes (like limiting the number of installs) are technological means to circumvent the first sale doctrine.</p>
<p>I buy the vast majority of my PC games on eBay for $10 or so because that&#8217;s the most I&#8217;m willing to pay. Therefore, I don&#8217;t always need a demo because I can live with a $10 loss if the game is crappy.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Farrell</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/05/22/idle-thoughts-demos/comment-page-2/#comment-50238</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 16:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1689#comment-50238</guid>
		<description>Fortunately Stephen Spielberg unbeknownst to himself designed a perfect demo level for Lego Indy 25 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately Stephen Spielberg unbeknownst to himself designed a perfect demo level for Lego Indy 25 years ago.</p>
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