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	<title>Comments on: Ramble On Rambling: Exploration Games</title>
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		<title>By: bgates87</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-117225</link>
		<dc:creator>bgates87</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-117225</guid>
		<description>I believe there is a market for completely exploration-based games where the only goal is to satisfy your own curiosity. The  intriguing element of exploration is the idea that you might find something no one else has ever seen before. Of course it&#039;s hard to truly experience that feeling because deep down all gamers know that someone designed this game and someone already knows about anything significant you might find.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe there is a market for completely exploration-based games where the only goal is to satisfy your own curiosity. The  intriguing element of exploration is the idea that you might find something no one else has ever seen before. Of course it&#8217;s hard to truly experience that feeling because deep down all gamers know that someone designed this game and someone already knows about anything significant you might find.</p>
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		<title>By: myname</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-89175</link>
		<dc:creator>myname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-89175</guid>
		<description>&quot;Would anyone pay for a game that was created in the name of aimless wandering tourism?&quot;

Oh yes they would - and pay for it too!  People already travel further and seeking weirder adventures IRL. Online ones would be an acceptable and cheaper alternative. Online socialising also increases. 
Definately a viable business opportunity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Would anyone pay for a game that was created in the name of aimless wandering tourism?&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh yes they would &#8211; and pay for it too!  People already travel further and seeking weirder adventures IRL. Online ones would be an acceptable and cheaper alternative. Online socialising also increases.<br />
Definately a viable business opportunity</p>
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		<title>By: Visitor</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-59090</link>
		<dc:creator>Visitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-59090</guid>
		<description>I had high hopes for Oblivion (on 360, sorry) and got about 80 hours into the game.  Then I ran into a bug that blocked me from finishing the Fighter&#039;s Guild storyline.  It reminded me of a similar bug in Morrowind, which ALSO kept me from finishing the Fighter&#039;s Guild storyline (I think it was Chrysamere?).  So 80 hours into Oblivion and 4 years after Morrowind, Bethesda still hasn&#039;t learned their lessons.
Oh sure, I can download a patch, but I don&#039;t pay good money to find the bugs in games for free, besides the fact that I&#039;m well past the point in which I can use the patch from XBox Live.  And scaled leveling?  Are you kidding me?  Why do these companies insist on punishing their customers?  Good grief.  Game save deleted, eBay here I come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had high hopes for Oblivion (on 360, sorry) and got about 80 hours into the game.  Then I ran into a bug that blocked me from finishing the Fighter&#8217;s Guild storyline.  It reminded me of a similar bug in Morrowind, which ALSO kept me from finishing the Fighter&#8217;s Guild storyline (I think it was Chrysamere?).  So 80 hours into Oblivion and 4 years after Morrowind, Bethesda still hasn&#8217;t learned their lessons.<br />
Oh sure, I can download a patch, but I don&#8217;t pay good money to find the bugs in games for free, besides the fact that I&#8217;m well past the point in which I can use the patch from XBox Live.  And scaled leveling?  Are you kidding me?  Why do these companies insist on punishing their customers?  Good grief.  Game save deleted, eBay here I come.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-58723</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-58723</guid>
		<description>I love Just Cause.

Driving a car off a bridge, jumping out, and then harpooning another car below so you can paraglide behind it will never get old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Just Cause.</p>
<p>Driving a car off a bridge, jumping out, and then harpooning another car below so you can paraglide behind it will never get old.</p>
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		<title>By: simonkaye</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-58719</link>
		<dc:creator>simonkaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-58719</guid>
		<description>Just Cause gave a beautiful and open world (about fifty times more interesting than the actual plot), but I&#039;m not sure it qualifies as true exploration when you&#039;re really just looking for a high place to drive a jeep off at sunset. Freelancer also left me exploro-cold. The game wasn&#039;t dynamic enough in its freeform periods. The locations and activities were ultimately very similar. Driving a massive cargo of diamonds to a backwater planet didn&#039;t change the price of diamonds there a jot. 

Anyone remember Privateer 2: The Darkening? That game was essentially identical to freelancer. Except with Clive Owen instead of John Rhys-Davies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just Cause gave a beautiful and open world (about fifty times more interesting than the actual plot), but I&#8217;m not sure it qualifies as true exploration when you&#8217;re really just looking for a high place to drive a jeep off at sunset. Freelancer also left me exploro-cold. The game wasn&#8217;t dynamic enough in its freeform periods. The locations and activities were ultimately very similar. Driving a massive cargo of diamonds to a backwater planet didn&#8217;t change the price of diamonds there a jot. </p>
<p>Anyone remember Privateer 2: The Darkening? That game was essentially identical to freelancer. Except with Clive Owen instead of John Rhys-Davies.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucky Main Street</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-58511</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucky Main Street</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-58511</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a game called Kyntt that focus on exploration and collection.  There&#039;s a few platformer type enemies and jumps, but very very few.  I&#039;ve heard it described as an ambient game, which exploration generally would be, and it&#039;s really great.  Secret passages are A1.  Don&#039;t get the sequel though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a game called Kyntt that focus on exploration and collection.  There&#8217;s a few platformer type enemies and jumps, but very very few.  I&#8217;ve heard it described as an ambient game, which exploration generally would be, and it&#8217;s really great.  Secret passages are A1.  Don&#8217;t get the sequel though.</p>
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		<title>By: Red Negativity</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-58301</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Negativity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-58301</guid>
		<description>Incredible, incredible article. Of course Oblivion had its major valleys, but it was one of the best games to receive a large fan base of all time.

I am SO glad somebody mentioned Shadow of the Colossus. That has the most beautiful art and game world that I have seen to date.

Borderlands will be a must for you if you love open worlds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incredible, incredible article. Of course Oblivion had its major valleys, but it was one of the best games to receive a large fan base of all time.</p>
<p>I am SO glad somebody mentioned Shadow of the Colossus. That has the most beautiful art and game world that I have seen to date.</p>
<p>Borderlands will be a must for you if you love open worlds.</p>
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		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-55971</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 10:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-55971</guid>
		<description>This is weird to admit, but I was really affected by the grand, beautiful waste of space in Just Cause.  The ultra-mediocre action wasn&#039;t worthy of the environment it took place in; it was truly a game where wandering became the only reason I&#039;d play it.  After finishing the storyline, I spent a lot of time flying around and noting small points of interest, impressed by the periodic architectural curiosities thrown around (most of which you&#039;d never see unless wandering) and kind of hoping for some magical AI surprise to appear.  You have lots of &#039;random&#039; interactions between gangsters and police on the road offering tantalizing echoes of far-off gunfire, but it&#039;s never worth checking out, no matter how unscripted.  I&#039;ve rarely seen as potential-filled a game world in an action game, honestly.  I was really shocked at how mod-proof they made it; some added content would definitely have brought me back for more play.  At one point I realized that that island world would take a REALLY long time navigate around if you never had access to vehicles and had fun stuff to keep you trekking from one spot to the next-- the game affords some really beautiful clifftop vistas just asking for some wandering warrior to stop and gaze at before making it to the next town.   Yet another &quot;let&#039;s hope the sequel offers more&quot; case...  In the meantime, where&#039;s the modding genius who can hack that thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is weird to admit, but I was really affected by the grand, beautiful waste of space in Just Cause.  The ultra-mediocre action wasn&#8217;t worthy of the environment it took place in; it was truly a game where wandering became the only reason I&#8217;d play it.  After finishing the storyline, I spent a lot of time flying around and noting small points of interest, impressed by the periodic architectural curiosities thrown around (most of which you&#8217;d never see unless wandering) and kind of hoping for some magical AI surprise to appear.  You have lots of &#8216;random&#8217; interactions between gangsters and police on the road offering tantalizing echoes of far-off gunfire, but it&#8217;s never worth checking out, no matter how unscripted.  I&#8217;ve rarely seen as potential-filled a game world in an action game, honestly.  I was really shocked at how mod-proof they made it; some added content would definitely have brought me back for more play.  At one point I realized that that island world would take a REALLY long time navigate around if you never had access to vehicles and had fun stuff to keep you trekking from one spot to the next&#8211; the game affords some really beautiful clifftop vistas just asking for some wandering warrior to stop and gaze at before making it to the next town.   Yet another &#8220;let&#8217;s hope the sequel offers more&#8221; case&#8230;  In the meantime, where&#8217;s the modding genius who can hack that thing?</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-55658</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-55658</guid>
		<description>Not on PC, but look into Afrika on the PS3. Looks stunning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not on PC, but look into Afrika on the PS3. Looks stunning.</p>
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		<title>By: Deutoronomy</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-54758</link>
		<dc:creator>Deutoronomy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-54758</guid>
		<description>Star f-ing Control 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Star f-ing Control 2.</p>
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		<title>By: Crispy</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-54582</link>
		<dc:creator>Crispy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-54582</guid>
		<description>&lt;cite&gt;That we don’t yet do this is in gaming is, I suggest, less about the lack of maturity of gaming, more about the lack of maturity of gamers.&lt;/cite&gt;

You&#039;re going to have to qualify that, because on the face of it it&#039;s utterly flawed. You&#039;re saying that gamers are not mature enough (in attitude?) for games to be made to appeal to them. This isn&#039;t how it works. When a game gets made that appeals to a more mature audience, a small niche of more mature gamers will be brought into the fold. If this sort of game is successful and accepted, more games will follow directed at this audience. One way of looking at it is that there is already a group of more mature (in attitude) gamers out there, they just aren&#039;t being catered for yet.

&lt;cite&gt;Aimless wandering is rarely an adequate substitute for a well-told story.&lt;/cite&gt;

This clearly shows how close-minded you are that you think a game&#039;s strongest possible point is its narrative. There are so many other elements made possible in games that aren&#039;t possible in literature or film (social interaction on about a gazillion levels, open-world exploration, open-structure sandbox play, personal achievement via emergence and/or progression, personal and team strategy, player customisation, novel replayability, the list goes on...). Just because these aren&#039;t what you classify as interesting, it certainly doesn&#039;t make narrative the most valuable element in a game.

The most popular quotation in reference to games is Sid Meier&#039;s &quot;A [good] game is a series of interesting choices.&quot; I would say that &quot;aimless wandering&quot; fails to be interesting if the player has no goal, just as a &quot;well-told story&quot; on its own fails to present the player with any choices. While either might make an entertaining experience to those that way inclined, neither on their own makes a good &#039;game&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>That we don’t yet do this is in gaming is, I suggest, less about the lack of maturity of gaming, more about the lack of maturity of gamers.</cite></p>
<p>You&#8217;re going to have to qualify that, because on the face of it it&#8217;s utterly flawed. You&#8217;re saying that gamers are not mature enough (in attitude?) for games to be made to appeal to them. This isn&#8217;t how it works. When a game gets made that appeals to a more mature audience, a small niche of more mature gamers will be brought into the fold. If this sort of game is successful and accepted, more games will follow directed at this audience. One way of looking at it is that there is already a group of more mature (in attitude) gamers out there, they just aren&#8217;t being catered for yet.</p>
<p><cite>Aimless wandering is rarely an adequate substitute for a well-told story.</cite></p>
<p>This clearly shows how close-minded you are that you think a game&#8217;s strongest possible point is its narrative. There are so many other elements made possible in games that aren&#8217;t possible in literature or film (social interaction on about a gazillion levels, open-world exploration, open-structure sandbox play, personal achievement via emergence and/or progression, personal and team strategy, player customisation, novel replayability, the list goes on&#8230;). Just because these aren&#8217;t what you classify as interesting, it certainly doesn&#8217;t make narrative the most valuable element in a game.</p>
<p>The most popular quotation in reference to games is Sid Meier&#8217;s &#8220;A [good] game is a series of interesting choices.&#8221; I would say that &#8220;aimless wandering&#8221; fails to be interesting if the player has no goal, just as a &#8220;well-told story&#8221; on its own fails to present the player with any choices. While either might make an entertaining experience to those that way inclined, neither on their own makes a good &#8216;game&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: RichPowers</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/03/ramble-on-rambling-exploration-games/comment-page-5/#comment-54531</link>
		<dc:creator>RichPowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 03:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1856#comment-54531</guid>
		<description>@Bacon
Agreed. As Yahtzee says in his review, Oblivion&#039;s world may be huge, but much of it is uninteresting. I love the little details in HL2, like the newspaper clippings showing the 7-Hour War (such details provide narrative background so the game can avoid forced recaps and history lectures from NPCs...)

The detail is what counts. But wide open worlds provide excellent photo op moments and that &quot;Lewis and Clark&quot; sense of charting vast, unexplored territory.

WoW has all sorts of little details that make the gameworld fun to explore. Ever notice how most MMORPGs feature dull expanses of rendered forests with little to explore in between?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bacon<br />
Agreed. As Yahtzee says in his review, Oblivion&#8217;s world may be huge, but much of it is uninteresting. I love the little details in HL2, like the newspaper clippings showing the 7-Hour War (such details provide narrative background so the game can avoid forced recaps and history lectures from NPCs&#8230;)</p>
<p>The detail is what counts. But wide open worlds provide excellent photo op moments and that &#8220;Lewis and Clark&#8221; sense of charting vast, unexplored territory.</p>
<p>WoW has all sorts of little details that make the gameworld fun to explore. Ever notice how most MMORPGs feature dull expanses of rendered forests with little to explore in between?</p>
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