I remember reading that cinema was spectacle before it was a narrative art. I think there’s certainly place for simple (or complex) interactive experiences – things which cannot be classified by gameplay mechanics. Instead of FPS, the genre would be War for example (based on its content).

I don’t think that it could find acceptance anytime soon.

People need spectacle to ease them into accepting a new use of the medium. Perhaps a game which meditates on violence? Violence is a common thread throughout the medium, and one that could provide violence solely for meaningful messages (sounds difficult) could in effect be that bridge. For cinema, consumer demand caused the shift to narrative. For games, which have been around for thousands of years, there is no current desire. Video games are unique in that they seperate themselves from the rest of gaming history with a pre-built, “living” and visual link.
I’m hesitant to call this new use of the medium “games” not for elitist purposes, but for the sake of shaking connotations which come with the label. A set of rules, objectives, rigid gameplay structure, entertainment value – none are necessary to tell a beautiful story interactively.

I’m fine with having both in our medium. Neither will cannibalise the other – blockbusters haven’t killed the Coens.

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Simple (doesn’t mean bad) stories about war, bloodshed, little drama and so on are pretty popular (and they always were). People like them, and so do I and you :-)

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But still the likes of Portal, Ico and SotC you mentioned show that often times, less is more and I guess developers should try to master the medium with such before attempting more complex things, when speaking about showing the true power of the medium at least, since we’ve both concluded games that end up using movies or other such mediums to convey their stories can be enjoyable, but simply shouldn’t be used as what all games should look up to if their more powerful moments come from the use of all the other mediums anyway…

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KG

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You have to enlighten me on how socialism was critiqued in Bioshock. I think it’s clear that the forces that destroyed Rapture were rooted in how Andrew Ryan set the society up – which was some kind of weird misconception of the objectivist ideal. Let me know, I’m curious.

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I’m also intrigued with how to deal with the role of the gods in an Iliad game. The recent movie ignored their active role and all but ignored them all together, which is fine but not true to the text. A video game would be at some advantage, as we are already used to mechanisms that could be contextualized as some sort of divine support– saving/loading, checkpoints, invincible NPCs, scripted events, etc. I can envision a Dynasty Warriors sort of “kill a whole bunch of unimportant people” basic structure, punctuated by set piece battles against the chief heroes, with the godly interventions doing what they did in the books: shifting the momentum or tide of battle, making particular people temporarily unbeatable or vulnerable, removing people (including the player character) from combat just before they die.

You know, the more I think about it, this would be an awesome game! You pick a hero, and the story more or less follows their role in the combat, although if one plans to stay true to the book this eliminates those that died, or perhaps you are able to choose these guys, but when it’s their time you can switch to another character. For my tastes, I reject the idea of altering the story to allow character X to survive or the Trojans to win– one of the themes of the work is fate, so tough titties Troy. I would be in favor of including elements of other classical sources however, especially the Odyssey and the Aeneid as they describe the sack of Troy which actually occurs after the end of the Iliad (which is another of the awesome and intriguing things about the Iliad).

To wrap up this rambling thing, I think the ending, with the Sack of Troy, could be very kickass. You could be Odysseus fucking shit up all over as Troy burns, or you could be Aeneas trying to scram from the scene with your pops on your back.

Al3xand3r: I took Latin for years (high school and college), but I just didn’t (and don’t) have the desire or tenacity to learn Greek. It’s a whole ‘nother set of letters for christ’s sake!

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Games like Portal and Ico and Shadow of the Colossus on the other hand, while they certainly don’t tell so complex stories, they are up to par in artistic expression and show the power of games as a new medium since they offer an experience of a story rather than simply show or simply tell it via other mediums. And while it’s much simpler stories, they have a big impact because you experience them in such ways. I don’t think that’s possible with very intricate stories (without making them drag on and on and boring I guess) like the classics discussed here.

But like I said, I do also love games that make use of other mediums if they do so well, or if they don’t try to show anything deep and are simply gamey entertainment. So I wouldn’t mind something like say, Metal Gear Iliad (no, I don’t imply it would have stealth). It’s just not what I’d show as an example of the power of games as a medium.

Anyway, I urge everyone to read the classics in their original language if at all possible, it’s really far better and different to just reading non-poetic translations. Such things are sort of like having a Hamlet with the characters speaking in bland, modern slang or something, a lot of it is lost. Hope that description gets my point across to English speakers here…

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Now Planescape, on the other hand… that genuinely does stand up as a powerful and profound symbolic literary work in a similar way to something like 1984, perhaps even some of Asimov’s lighter material. But then, Planescape is almost a book anyway.

I really can’t think of much else that compares. Deus Ex 1&2 come second as an at least thought-provoking examination of the role of technology in the continued process of human evolution, if only William Gibson hadn’t already done it all better. Snatcher would be good if it wasn’t just a Blade Runner ripoff. And since I’ve mentioned 1984, I guess Half-Life 2 is basically what would happen if Luc Besson had produced the film adaptation.

I’ve been replaying The Neverhood recently (hence my screenname), and that would genuinely have a shot at some real poetic oomph if it actually used its whole semi-satirical creationist theme in any meaningful way, but as it is it’s just a bizarrely subtle, if charming, joke.

This whole question probably won’t be solved until someone makes a real, concerted effort to, say, make a game adaptation of the Iliad. Would it work? Not unless the developers could resist putting in massive weapons, QTEs and Olympian-grade breast physics. The Iliad was not a story about killing people, it’s a story about wrath, grief, lust and humanity at large which happens to be set around a war. Until someone in games works out the difference and has the courage to set the boundary, we’ll be stuck in sub-airport novel dregs indefinitely.

Oh and hello, by the way. I’m not usually this pretentious, I swear ;)

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