You may remember when Codemasters put out their press release for the Damnation announcement, we felt inclined to mock it everso slightly. Codies responded in generous good humour, leading to this madness. Well now some more screenshots have appeared, and as excellent fun as this game looks like it could be, there’s some more mocking to come.
Specifically about the above.
Damnation is to be a large-scale action shooter, set in levels that boast their vertical as much as their horizontal, bursting with physics-defying stunts. Such as driving along walls on a motorbike. Now, we’re not Tim Gunn or anything, but it would seem that for flinging yourself from rooftop to rooftop, performing daredevil feats, and having shoot-outs in mid-air, this isn’t possible the most sensibly designed outfit for the task.
HELLO CODEMASTERS! IS IT 1972 IN YOUR OFFICES?
Do you see how you’re really rather enforcing the reputation we wish this industry didn’t deserve? Do you not want to offer female characters some dignity?
Er, okay, so that was ranting. But come on.
A rather more respectable collection of screenshots, all of them enormous, here.
Related Stories:
Clearly she fights in the old Highland Manner. Bear breasted and each carrying an eight pound baby!(or in this case shotgun) It is the old Highland manner for the new millennium.
Part of me thinks that people should just link to hot action heroines so that Alexander may see the difference between ‘em.
The “If you don’t like it don’t play it” argument isn’t going to go far from a site that’s ran by four reviewers, by the way. It’s our job to insult stuff we find silly. And this is jolly silly.
KG
@ Al3xand3r
Your argument would have a lot more weight if there were more “politically correct” games competing with this. I can rattle off dozens of games that have girls in whorish outfits and are crazed agents of death in bikinis. Games with competent female leads that aren’t objectified? I can barely think of 2 that are written competently.
What you are so adamantly defending…is hardly an underdog. Does EVERYTHING have to be man-boy escapist fantasy?
There are many more games with sensibly created heroines than sensibly created heroes. Check out more or less every adventure game with a female character or any PC RPG (non MMO) which allows you to create a female character, or many other types of games such as Half-Life 2, Portal, Tomb Raider (and to think it was called sexist, now it’s presented as having a decently clothed woman LOL). Also JRPGs like Grandia, action adventures like Shenmue, Action RPGs like Zelda, survival horror games like Resident Evil (not sure if any had hoes, but many didn’t) and many more. If you can only think of 2, you haven’t gamed enough to comment on what’s the (bad) standard in video games.
Examples? Bear in mind I’m talking about fitting into the world the game has created, not into the everday world… hence why I think the Gears of War example holds up.
I’d also like to raise the issue that accusations of political correctness are misplaced. If anything, this is social correctness. This has nothing to do with forcing people to make games which adhere to their opinions, or changing the law for that to happen. This is about developers getting a bloody clue.
@Al3x: I do believe there is slightly more understanding from the general public now about computer games than there was when Tomb Raider was first released. It was more of a kneejerk reaction of a female character with breasts being in a videogame – this was still the dawn of 3d graphics, you understand – than what she was doing in that videogame.
I think ZP’s review of Anniversary, with the comparisons of Anniversary Lara and original Lara were pretty on the mark too, in thw way she responded to flirtations. Coyly responding to them or going all STFU? There’s an extreme there, and it isn’t the former.
The lack of sensibly created male characters is also an issue. Is the masculine ideal also offensive? Arguably it is, is Gears of War offensive? The fact that over determined masculinity occurs in games is what is being discussed, the fact that almost all games are written entirely from a masculine perspective is the core issue. It is not an argument against the way women are portrayed in games.
I agree Alyx isn’t a good representation of a well portrayed women though. She is defined entirely by you the player. She wears low cut jeans and the first time you meet her you are made to follow her, the game clearly wanting you to look at her rear. Also she stares at you and is used to be a mirror, the way Alyx looks at Gordon (you the player) is with adoration, she repeatedly states that you are heroic and impressive.
Criticism is a good thing, ignoring something you don’t like is not always the best thing.
I love Alyx. By which I mean, I am in love with her and will marry her the moment she stops being held back by her fictional existence. But this I think raises an issue with her. She’s, like Kieron said, rather over-obvious. (And indeed I’m equally over-obvious because I gladly fall for it).
So I shall, as I am stereotyped to, reference April from The Longest Journey, and further, Dreamfall. She does begin in a very Joss Whedony “this is how girls would be in my universe” place, but by Dreamfall she’s fantastically broken and misguided. And yet wears a nice warm coat.
Al3xand3r, notice how in one of your last posts you talk about not taking statements out of context and then immediately quote a short phrase in said manner? Good stuff.
Am with Meat Circus, if its fine for the film/tv industry to make films/programs for a target audience then its fine for computer games. If a sex and the city the game contained a semi-naked Fireman as a playable character then the universe would be in balance no ??
Isn’t the point that it is not fine whatever the medium? Two wrongs not making a right and all that.
@ Al3xand3r
Way to insult how much of a gamer I am than stick with the issue. What the hell though, lets say there are 6. 7. Whatever. You’re never going to convince me that there aren’t a helluva lot more man-boy games out there than ones with mature, competently written female characters.
Every single character you named either does not talk, is a damsel in distress, or wears ridiculous outfits in combat.
Tomb Raider? Are you serious? In the first game she’s wearing short pants in the arctic.
But without big boobs, what use would there be for bump mapping and pixel shaders? And rag doll physics? And dynamic shadows?
Will someone please think of the technology?
Sadly, no. Men are already seen as dominant.
Not many people starting protest groups against the objectification of male strippers. The taboos on women are different than tose on men, especially in regard to sexuality… hey, it’s a patriarchal world.
I didn’t think Aribeth was smutty. Though granted, she fell from grace, I at least felt for her doing so. So far as *action* gaming though, women get the shaft pretty thoroughly. The action side of gaming is still very much the male side full of all the mostly-nude women, large guns, and fist-pumps-while-driving-exploding-cars of a major Hollywood summer release.
Bad? Eh, no more than the above mentioned movie. But that doesn’t totally invalidate people’s complaints.
I’m waiting for a game to come along that’s *just* for the ladies to oogle over, super he-man quake or something, just for laughs at the sure to be outrageous poopstorm that will follow. Picture all the women in power armor and full of deathly grace, and all the men running around in loincloths. Does nothing for me personally but I would follow that game’s commentary closer than any I had before.
Actually, now that I think about it, WOULD we see a shitstorm about that? Or is the industry still so male-dominated that it would go unnoticed or just dismissed as ‘odd’?
EDIT: Great scots this thread is asplodin’. Nuts to everything I typed getting said before I was done typin’ it :p
I’d also like to add to Mr Walker list of good female characters the lead role in Beyond good and Evil and the lead role in the Siberia games both beautifully done.
I don’t mind whorish characters when they’re done well enough. I mean, I liked Jeanette in Bloodlines. Virginia in Wild Arms 3 isn’t a whorish, scantily clad female. She’s probably my favorite female heroin ever.
Abyss, that’s a “you too” fallacy if I ever saw one.
“Johnny stole a lollipop, so it’s fine for me to be doing so!”
Also, watch a few television dramas. I think there are far, far more believeable female characters in them than there are in videogames.
@John Walker:
Aren’t you concerned that she’d want to have your honeymoon in a leaky nuclear power plant about to explode or a zombie-filled abandoned military base in the arctic or something?
She’s a mad bitch and she wants you dead.
The feminist reading of Aribeth would be. Aribeth was the fallen woman who could only be redeemed or damned by you! If you assume the male is the player then she falls neatly into a particular kind of objectified image of a woman, one who falls because of her loss of a man meaning she is weak and can be redeemed by a man.
@Al3x: I’m pretty sure RPS and everybody commenting here are flattered by your presumption, that things discussed in the comments section of an RPS article lead to mandatory laws concerning the whole gaming industry.
Everybody here is expressing their opinions about the portrayal of women in games and some of us are hoping (against all odds) that someday we’ll have a believable action heroine, that manages to look hot and believable at the same time, without resorting to cheap adolescent fantasies.
Actualy, I am hoping for ugly characters too. Especially ugly protagonists.
@Okami – Beyond Good and Evil already has a hot female lead who kicks ass and takes photographs while remaining unwhorish… why wait!
@Abyss UK
Target audience in this case being wankers, literally? The problem with massive fake tits is that if you’re unsophisticated enough to let your sex-drive be spoofed by such crude naffness, then its likely that you’re stupid. Imagine a cow with udders half the size of its abdomen.
I mean, thats not even what tits look like. Thats what silicon balls look like. They’re perfect hemispheres, for flips sake.
Also at Alexander – if you bung up any more comments containing direct insults to folks here, they’ll be deleted entirely. Say it with civility or not at all.
Exactly. That was my problem with Aribeth, she’s a paladin! A divine servant of a god, and not just one of those weak, useless gods.
There’s also Bastila in kotor, who I refer as Aribeth2. Another pitiable ’strong female’.
@Abyss: You are, of course, right. Jade is awesome.
@Vivian – hey I don’t do/like the big fake titties I just don’t see why people shouldn’t be able to do the big fake titties. Like I’ve been saying games exist with good well proportioned female roles too you know.
And yes the majority of gamers are stupid, thats why this game will do well and put food on codies table.. they know this thats why they have done it.
I think Al3xand3r and others are muddling up two separate issues. There is one discussion over the way women are portrayed in games as sexual objects, barely dressed for your viewing pleasure, and another over games not offering adequate avatars to represent the majority of male gamers.
I completely sympathise with the frustration of many male gaming protagonists being the last sort of person I’d want to have anything to do with, let alone represent. All the GRRR macho bullshit makes me feel a little ridiculous, no matter how fun the game might be.
However, you simply cannot conflate this issue with their being presented as nothing but sexual objects. Their role in the game is not equivalent. They are generally intended to be power fantasies, allowing the male player to realise his inner beefcake. The barely dressed woman in her tattered bra and panties we encounter is no one’s power fantasy, but instead an objectified presentation of a sexual offer.
So yes, I entirely encourage people to complain about the idiotic representation of men in games. But don’t muddle that up with the screenshot above, which is a quite separate issue.
(Nevermind that I can reel of lists of fat dumpy men in games, but struggle to put together a decent selection of realistic women).
@AbyssUK:
At core, that’s the root of the problem. A large majority of gamers are morons. This offends the RPS hive mind to know that they work in an industry widely and correctly regarded as being full of idiots, so they pretend that if we cover up all the outward signs of gamer idiocy, suddenly they’ll all grow 50 IQ points.
So, what’s better? Sideboob vs underboob? XD
About The Witcher. I didn’t see a a very sexist game. It was almost tongue-in-cheek, you being a badass hero (with long white hair!) who bangs every hottie he find in every adventure. Not very far away from James Bond’s movies, a superspy who always get the girl in every movie , or at least bangs some femme fatale at the middle of the film.
I don’t think many people are saying there is no place for this in games. It’s just that catering to the lowest common denominator at the stage where games are is probably not a good idea if the medium doesn’t want to end up like comics.
Where was all this stink when we were all giggling over the boobie physics in the Conan MMO?
Walker, are those fat men that often the good guys, or important characters, or even the main character? I can certainly think of many ugly women in video games also, but they usually aren’t important to the game either. Not to mention such male characters would still hardly be what the average adult male can corelate to, especially if they’re just there for comedic value like old 2D adventure titles.
@Matt
I could see that. But what if the lead is female? What if it’s simply a case of ‘this is a fallen teacher, saved by the pupil?’ There doesn’t necessarily *have* to be an overtone of sexism just because the characters are of opposite sex. She was a well enough fleshed out character that she stood on her own without having to be the slut.
I would say if you ended up hooking up with Aribeth or the likes, then that argument would hold more weight, but just because you’re doing the saving doesn’t make her weak just because she’s a ‘her’, as opposed to a him.
The role would have worked with either gender. I guess that’s sort of my litmus test. ‘Does huge bits of armor and massive guns work for either gender’: more or less, yes. ‘Does nothing for clothing work in a gun fight’: more or less, no. Unless you’re fighting with weird ass clothes-rending guns.
EDIT: Also, Mass Effect: Gender bias or no? Characters of both genders range from the bull-headed to the admirable. Yes, the women are drawn all kinds of sexy, but so are the underwear model men.
EDIT2: Age of Conan actually ends up being one of the least gender-biased in terms of player characters (NPCs are a whole different matter in terms of how they’re portrayed). Armor is armor, and it doesn’t care if you’re a he or a she. It’s going to cover you depending on how good of a suit of armor it is. Given what the source material is though, I think they did a great job not being *too* over the top.
I’m fine with all that, I just get a bit annoyed when people attempt to justify it. Just call it wank and move on. The worst is watching the knuckleheads justify something like DoA Beach Volleyball.
“Uh, they’re at beach. That’s why they’re dressed like that.”
“They feed each other fruit because they can.”
“It’s just ladies on beach, ladies undress in front of each other all the time”
“Tomb Raider? Are you serious? In the first game she’s wearing short pants in the arctic.”
Peru.
And I’m going to go into this more. It’s quite similar in essence (it’s still cold and snowy), but it hints at something more; how is anyone supposed to have a decent discussion on things like this when people make flippant comments like this that show they obviously haven’t even played the games in question (or, at least, payed so little attention it essentially amounts to the same)?
Alexander – Well, my first thought would be the most famous male videogame character of all time – Mario.
But do you agree that you are angry about one issue, that has nothing to do with the sexual portrayal of women in gaming?
(I note you snipped out your reference to Dracula – I’m not sure how many would get it – I only do because I was paid to play it.)
And Pac-Man!
DoA Beach Volleyball is indefensible as anything other than fan service. If someone tries to hold a position other than that, they’re just being a wanker, to borrow the phrase.
So called fan-service being defensible or not as a whole is entirely different, but doesn’t appear to be what’s up for debate here.
*applause*
Well Walker, I think they’re more similar issues than you make them. Both adhere to the main stereotype of each gender and take it to the extreme. It just happens it’s not the same stereotype, but it’s still just as offensive. Does being about sex and character rather than character and physical form make it all that different? It’s still mistreating a gender.
Al3x, they are different taboos, fitting in to a larger social context where women actually aren’t treated all that equal to men.
The key difference, as you identify, would be the word “sex”.
Men making condescending portrayals of other men, of the same race, creed and sexuality?
Hmm…
If I’m allowed to quote Schafer, it’s wish-fulfillment. A lot of men, or at least young folk, wouldn’t mind having huge muscles and big guns. If they find it offensive, then by buying them all like hotcakes they have a funny way of showing it…
Wish fulfillment indeed. But the fact that so many gamers wish for this is rather alarming.
Well there’s certainly no shortage of young women eager to show their assets on magazines (mind you not just porn or softcore tittie mags, they’re everywehre) regardless of their career (porn, singing, dancing, anything public) and certainly no shortage of women that wish they were like that also (just look at the popularity of all products and services which are helping getting them there). So that’s just as okay really. Which is, not that much.
Wish fulfillment indeed. But isn’t the fact that so many gamers want this slightly alarming?
Al3x: Who owns the porn, fashion, advertisement, cosmetics, tv, movie, etc. industries…. hmm I’ll guess men.
God, this thread’s got me listening to the Indelicates.
KG