You may remember when Codemasters put out their press release for the Damnation announcement, we felt inclined to mock it everso slightly. Codies responded in generous good humour, leading to this madness. Well now some more screenshots have appeared, and as excellent fun as this game looks like it could be, there’s some more mocking to come.
Specifically about the above.
Damnation is to be a large-scale action shooter, set in levels that boast their vertical as much as their horizontal, bursting with physics-defying stunts. Such as driving along walls on a motorbike. Now, we’re not Tim Gunn or anything, but it would seem that for flinging yourself from rooftop to rooftop, performing daredevil feats, and having shoot-outs in mid-air, this isn’t possible the most sensibly designed outfit for the task.
HELLO CODEMASTERS! IS IT 1972 IN YOUR OFFICES?
Do you see how you’re really rather enforcing the reputation we wish this industry didn’t deserve? Do you not want to offer female characters some dignity?
Er, okay, so that was ranting. But come on.
A rather more respectable collection of screenshots, all of them enormous, here.
Related Stories:
This is an ACTION game based in a steam punk wild west that has robots in the 1800s, motorcycles, dual revolvers, etc. etc. this isn’t meant to be taken seriously.
If you’re looking for philosophical questions to pander, it’s not going to come from this girl’s jacket, though surprisingly it has brought a lot of questions to the surface.
Like: Why is a woman being interested in having sex a bad thing?
Why must a decent woman hate sex and avoid it at all cost?
Why do virgins live and sluts die in horror movies?
Why does the Average American fear Nipples more than decapitation when watching TV with their family?
Why do men get a thumbs up for landing a hot date when women get nothing?
Well lets take a look back in time:
Stone Age: -Manny is a tribal human that has a mate and has conquered a sizable territory from the other guys.
-Manny dies with 3 sons who will divide up the land, but a woman comes along with her child and claims that she was also Manny’s mate and the child deserves a share of the land.
-The 3 sons and their mom don’t want the other son and his mom to get a piece of their inheritance, so it’s denied them.
-A feud starts between two family lines.
-This happens many times for many families till someone comes up with the idea of marriage to establish Lineage for inheritance.
-Marriages help, but men still drag home women they aren’t married to and have sex with them, hence Adultery.
-Adultery upsets the woman (or the man if another man drags away their wife)
-Men don’t want to take the blame so they point to the woman they had adultery with siting their clothing or their assets.
-Women don’t want the blame so they point at the man, but the man is bigger so the men listen to the man; men are stupid, agreeing with the woman would get them a mate.
-Women develop jealousy and/or hatred for women better looking than them and wish for them to cover up their better features, so they set up a standard
-Men see these coverings as an excuse to have adultery when they are not present.
-Fast forward social evolution to the Puritans:
1700s:-The Puritans are extreme revisionists of the Catholic faith that demand that there be no fun, claiming fun is a sin. Laughing, singing (happy singing), dancing and all ways of having fun are then considered witchcraft to them and deserving of death. Nudity and fornication are high on the list of death deserving actions. Pretty women are looked down upon and everyone is made to look plain and similar. This is quite close to hell as Dante described.
Go on a few hundred years and hear we are today, with the scars of Puritanism and the seeds of jealously as well as the need to escape blame and punishment.
In shot: People are stupid, and yes that includes you
and me
Umm, way to go wildly speculative, not to mention seeming to confuse patriarchy and the exploitation/objectification of women with the repression of sexuality (linked, but certainly different).
Now bearing in mind that i have skimmed through the comments with a quick firefox search for the words ‘light’ and ‘lighting’…
But doesn’t it worry anyone else how her boobs are lit when everything around them is in shadow? Now i’m not talking about the bits near the edge of her body, i’m talking about the ‘cleavage’ in the centre… How is THAT lit up!? Maybe her cleavage exists on a semi-plane of existence and will play an important part of gameplay?
Not that i was looking at her boobs for an inordinate amount of time, mind…
@Chemix
“This is an ACTION game based in a steam punk wild west that has robots in the 1800s, motorcycles, dual revolvers, etc. etc. this isn’t meant to be taken seriously.”
Like I said, its not disappointing just because its an obvious, juvenile way of rendering a female lead, but because its an obvious juvenile way of rendering a female lead adrift in an ocean of other games with female characters which are also rendered in an obvious, juvenile way.
IMHO its just disappointing to see yet another developer take the Nuts option and go down the path of least resistance, when they could have bucked the trend and tried to do something more interesting. Like I said before, if you are into Nuts then are plenty Nuts to go round. Nuts, nuts, nuts.
And before someone starts, I understand *why* all games are Nuts, and I realize that I’m just a minority with special interests, and you all can’t get enough Nuts, and I’m just not entitled to demand not-Nuts e.t.c. e.t.c.
Just because male sexuality is a bit crass (and that’s OK) doesn’t mean that it doesn’t make sense to agitate for people to make more stuff to do in between wanks.
.
@Duoae: Why do you think modern video cards are so expensive? Nowadays boob lighting requires a dedicated core all of its own. And that’s before we get on to boob physics.
Although I think boob physics is fine. I mean really its more realistic. I have seen girls. I know your not supposed to look, but honestly. Sometimes they move!
Also I like Gainax anime. Bustgunner is awesome.
It’s no Zardoz.
203 comments.
Right so that’s Piracy, Zombies [speeding], Valve [money] and now Boobs [glowing] on the RPS “banned from conversation” list?
Well done boys.
Nuts:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z61/hashbrown1206/celebphoto3/connery-zardoz.jpg
I have another post pending…hope it comes through soon.
But for those who say, it’s just a game not meant to be taken seriously…I just ask. If a bit of flesh is all a bit of fun, why aren’t the male main characters all shirtless with pants that emphasize the unrealistically huge size of their massive packages? Why aren’t they all freeballing or wearing boxers and why aren’t we discussing the special physics of penis jiggles.
Why don’t we have men being treated as sexual objects rather than sexual subjects in the same way that women are treated as sexual objects rather than sexual subjects. It isn’t all just in fun.
Coz chix is hotr than dudes.
Damn Mr. White: it took something like 150 posts to get to this breakthrough. You’re right, of course. And Imessy has shown the price of returning to the early 70s, when Mr. “videogames-aren’t-art” was a prominent scriptwriter, and not writing film reviews for some Chicago paper. (But, of course, Zardoz is filmic genius that must be viewed every lustre at pain of angering the lares.)
But blather on all you like, boobies ain’t gonna further discourse so much as pacify one of the vocal elements. And the penis is evil. It shoots the seed upon the Earth that spreads the plague of men.
The gun is good.
Somehow, Boorman got everything wrong, except how computers fit into elite culture.
Same reason a woman can walk down the street with half of her torso exposed, but man doing the same will be greeted with “lol, fag”?
I’ve only skimmed the comments because I am fat and lazy, but it’s a massive relief to see you gents rolling eyes and getting a little miffed about this kind of thing.
Risqué in the odd game is fine. Gratuitous, idiotic tit-on-stick festivals aren’t (or at least, should be confined to a small minority of games in the same way that tongue-in-cheek games like Duke Nukem and Serious Sam are thin on the ground). Not just because it’s demeaning to women and renders the characters lame, but because it’s goddamn insulting to any man with more than two brain cells to rub together.
And, y’know, it’s pretty stupid tactically, as well. I’ll wear armour everywhere except over my cleavage! I definitely don’t have any vital organs around there!
Also, while I am very much in favour of excellent hats, the ones pictured don’t quite match the rest of the outfits, I be reckonin’.
And that reason would be sexism. Something I don’t particularly want it replicated in the media I consume.
They should really put Zed on the cover of Nuts.
That would be a fucking revelation.
“I think ZP’s review of Anniversary, with the comparisons of Anniversary Lara and original Lara were pretty on the mark too, in thw way she responded to flirtations. Coyly responding to them or going all STFU? There’s an extreme there, and it isn’t the former.”
This is a bit back, but I just realised that reminds me of something I found far more off as far as characterisation changes (involving a female too) in TRA are concerned, especially as no review I’ve seen has picked up on it; Natla. In the original game Natla actually seems slightly sympathetic, and, while her motives are misguided and insane, she comes across as genuinely caring about what she’s going to do (which in the insane sense of what it is she’s doing, is actually very selfless).
In TRA she’s reduced to a cackling madwoman ranting about taking over the world and spouting lines like “your heart is as black as mine!”, plus there’s are a ton of hints dropped that she is returning in later games (and that’s without going into recent interviews that all but confirm it), so, unless she has some complete personality change (and with lines like the one above… Yeah, no.) the original, far more believable, Natla is not only going to be buried but have her grave pissed on too.
i thinks the boobs might be a marketing tool. But if this was anything real which it isn’t it would be humanly impossible to have jugs like that if your a fit women. I think they would be pretty distracting while playing the game but I think its just a cheap marketing tool.But thats been the case for ages using plastic women for marketing to attract men. Anyways i think the game looks really cool, like the character models(other then the female), weapons and the gameplay from the screens looks interesting and exciting.
Bringing up Unreal 2 again, this back in the day was roundly mocked even by fans of the generally pointless hard-chick attire that plagues games and comics (Ship’s engineer. Dangerous machinery operation, mm hmm. Damaged, withdrawn and reclusive war veteran too. Uh huh).
Today the nonsense above has defenders! Men, what has become of us? Seems more and more these days, most of whatever smarts we had is generally employed to defend our right to be dumb.
What’s the bet, because it’s vaguely steam punk, it’s actually wittily self aware take on the traditions of the genre. Falling back on lame traditions is now really a deeply layered, intellectual exercise.
This is one of those things where I am continually torn. On the one hand, I am against the objectification of women, against sexism, heartily in favor of getting more women into gaming (which things like this tend to work against), and yes, think that such garments are ludicrously inappropriate in combat situations.
On the other hand, I like breasts. Lovingly rendered, and shown off to advantage in silly, skimpy outfits. And it’s kinda got to be in a proper game, because the mild thrill from that sort of thing (as opposed to outright porn) is not nearly enough to put up with the ludicrously pointless “play” of something like Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball.
It is indeed a conundrum.
I can see it as noble sentiment, but it leaves us with certain problem. That is, if we presume that having game character dressed in manner that emphasizes sexual appeal of their form is “wrong” because it’s turning them into “sex object” then quite naturally it’s something that should be frowned upon when done no matter the character gender. (these barbarians with naked chests and legs? obvious cheesecake that cannot be allowed, as per this thread only a moron runs into a battlefield unprotected)
But that in turn leaves us with just one alternative, that’s having characters of both genders dressed modestly and in manner that’s deemed appropriate to task at hand. Leaving aside that judgement of what’s appropriate can be rather misguided due to differences between real and fictional universes … doesn’t it simply put hypocritical fence of public outrage around the design process, when you consider how meantime even in real world people of both genders do have the freedom to walk in public in attires that stress sexuality of their form… and that they choose to exercise that freedom every day? Let alone in world of fiction that has luxury to explore possibilities real world doesn’t allow for one reason or another?
I just wonder if positive focus shouldn’t be rather put on the titles that deviate from the current norm and thus hopefully increase the variety down the road. Instead of lambasting these who choose to conform with present practices … as #1, telling people how they should make their games is very much trying to play with someone else’s money (as opposed to voting with your own on finished products) and #2, if actually successful this approach could lead just to replacement of one set of standards with the others, but with no increase in overall number of viable options. Which i can’t see as positive outcome considering that real world is more varied than that.
I’m not entirely uncomfortable with this– and most of my discomfort comes from the knowledge that I’m in the privileged social position here, and I don’t want to be exploiting or dehumanizing anyone.
But games are an escapist medium, to a large extent. Many have no goals beyond escapism (and sales). Hot women in ludicrously scanty clothing firing off enormous weapons is something that triggers some very primal, adolescent impulses in members of my gender.
Obviously it wreaks hell with any sense of realism, seriousness, characterization or suspension of disbelief– but FPS is a genre where you tend to be reborn after death in 30 seconds or less. None of that is really there to be jeopardized. The whole thing is a ludicrous bloodsport violence fantasy, why is that so much more acceptable than the equally ludicrous sex fantasy?
It’s the video-game equivalent of a big greasy plate of Doritos. It’s fattening, messy, not nutritious, not cheap, and it doesn’t even taste that good when you really think about it– it’s just a bright-orange artificially-flavored link to some deep-seated part of human neurology that rewards fat intake with endorphin release. It’s junk food, but sometimes people still buy it– and even still enjoy it– because it hits us on this lowest-common-denominator level.
The imagery above is exploiting a very similar neural pathway.
EyeMessiah:
I don’t quite get it either. Sure, you can argue that she’s the “opposite stereotype”, but disregarding her eagerness to throw both you and herself into mortal danger, she’s definitely one of the most believable characters I’ve ever seen with a wide range of appropriate emotional reactions to pretty much everything that happens.
Someone mentioned the fact that she shows admiration and affection towards Gordon (you) as a bad thing, which I don’t get either. In that situation I certainly would myself, and I also find myself admiring her quite a lot throughout the games.
In my eyes she’s a very good example of making a widely popular character that works well with the game’s plot and environment and that’s what we wanted, right? A female character that works rather than just a pair of boobs on screen.
Great read, and this sort of debate is exactly why RPS is the best game site online.
I’m surprised no one has stated the immensely obvious: Sex sells. More people will buy this title for the the very reasons that will cause others to avoid it.
@Ape said it accidentally best “catering to the lowest common denominator at the stage where games are is probably not a good idea if the medium doesn’t want to end up like comics.”
and yet, comics have been around how long compared to video games? This *is* the future of video games. They know their target demographic. They will continue to cater to the majority.
Dolphan: I’d have linked to Our Daughters… if it was online. Alas, it’s not.
Part of me suspects we’d have been better off just linking to the shot and a simple statement of “THIS IS FUCKING STUPID”.
KG
any publicity is good publicity we are discussing a game i probably and many other couldnt give 2 hoots about.
devs 1 us o
Geez Malkav11 you hit the nail right on the head. I LIKE boobs.
I’ve been in France for training the last week and a half and it sure is different then the rural northeast US (except for maybe a college campus in spring) as far as dress. I’ve been enjoying the hot weather attire and missing my wife.
my wife doesn’t think much of games like this (boobraider included as she calls it) but she knows I like boobs. She doesn’t like violent games either so some nights she does her thing and I do mine. I can’t watch any POTC movie again but she can.
A couple years back she sent me link to a set of photos from a music festival we had attended dedicated to body paint she titled “painted boobies” cause she knows I LIKE BOOBS.
Anway to make at least one semi-intelligent point, how come no one designs breast reduction models for these offensive females, instead of nude skins?
Cause like me, a lot of males LIKE BOOBS.
As far as I’m concerned, Alyx may not be excessively physically sexualised, but her constant dependence on Gordon and near constant congratulation whenever he pulls a lever or smashes a door down comes across as simpering and not a little submissive – she may not be catering to the physical objectification of women, but when she’s cited as a strong, well-rounded female game character I can’t help but think we’ve got a long way to go.
I actually think Mass Effect’s Ashley Williams is closer to how female characters should be portrayed than Alyx is. One of my favourite lines in the game occurred when she’s expressing her dismay at the sleazy club at the citadel, and went something like ‘If you want to see me in a tin-foil miniskirt you’ll have to buy me dinner first’ (the implication being that she’s unimpressed with the cheaply dressed women, not that if you buy her dinner she’s yours forever).
Of course when you first meet her she is wearing figure hugging, bubblegum coloured armour…
Well to turn that argument around, you’re pretty dependant on her as well during the time you have her as your sidekick. The first time you meet Alyx she’s just saved your behind from the combine and she holds her own against any “normal” enemy you run into.
Also, this is an action game where you’re supposed to play the hero in trying to save the world. If the NPCs weren’t dependant on you to solve the puzzles and take out the bad guys it would just be a movie where you decide camera angles rather than a game.
I’ll agree that giving me a “well done” after every accomplishment felt a bit unnecessary, but that’s the game’s way of telling you you’re doing well and there’s a far stretch between that and Alyx getting down on her knees and worshipping you. I can’t see how someone is submissive for showing appreciation when you’re overcoming obstacles or saving their life.
Anyway, my point is just what the last line said; she’s a female character that works as a person, rather than just a pair of walking boobs to rest your eyes on, which is the impression I’m getting from the image at the top of this page.
Well that pretty much shoots a hole in the “she’s there as independent strong character capable of holding her own” argument, though. It’s a supporting character, easy to look at, dependant on the “strong, silent male type” to get anywhere and massaging his ego for everything he does. Not much more than mental equivalent to the pair of walking boobs, when you think of it like that.
Her behavior is also keeping in line with that of the other NPCs – how many times during the game does someone express awe upon meeting you (”My God, it’s Gordon Freeman!”), or amazement at something you’ve done (”I can’t believe you made it!”)?
why aren’t the male main characters all shirtless with pants that emphasize the unrealistically huge size of their massive packages?
because then it would get an AO rating and no store would carry it, which says a lot about sexism at large, but doesn’t shed any new light on the issue at hand.
however, if Steam carried a game like that, i would totally consider buying it. DOES Steam carry AO titles? I’ve no idea..
Also, I would kill for games to “end up like comics”. Yeah, a lot of mainstream superhero comics and the like are pretty stupid (just like a lot of mainstream movies and books are pretty stupid), but with amazingly talented people like Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Warren Ellis, and Neil Gaiman working in comics, there is a substantial subset of both superhero and nonsuperhero comics that are really intelligent, well-told works of fiction that couldn’t have been done as well/at all in a more timeworn medium. I’d really love for that to be more true of games.
Old Hat Note:
“When you’ve got artists who tear their photo-ref out of Porn mags, you can’t really fucking treat any idea they’re not actually sexist, objectifying trash seriously.”
Oh snap. Is that how they really do it in the superhero comic business? Seriously?
‘fraid so. Deadlines are hard. Drawing people well and quickly is even harder.
Well, if you need a reference for drawing a well-proportioned human figure in skin-tight bodysuit then i’d figure yeah, porn (like any other pictures of naked humans) would work very good. But to go from this to “sexist, objectifying trash” is quite idiotic — in the process of drawing/3d modeling the human form, that form is treated as object no matter where the reference material comes from… and regardless of object’s gender.
tmp:
There’s a really long stretch between a supporting character and eyecandy in my opinion. With that line thinking Barney might as well be eyecandy for the female/gay population. Or maybe you’re trying really hard to objectify anything with a pair of breasts?
Again, I want to emphasise that I’m definitely not pointing out Alyx as an ultimate “girlpower” woman, I’m just saying I appreciate her as a well written person.
Mike mentioned Mass Effect above, and I’ll agree that most female characters were well written and portrayed in that game. Ashley came across as a stereotype strong-willed military woman who flirted wildly though, they’d made Tali’s environmental suit make her “female attributes” stand out in a fairly silly way and there’s a whole race of sexy blue women to rest your eyes on. It never bothered me or feel contrived though, I enjoyed the game and the characters and didn’t feel like they were thrown in there to give teenage boys an erection or a pair of breasts to admire, which is the feeling I get from the girl pictured above here.
Bearing in mind that I haven’t played Ep 1 or 2, but I thought Alyx kind of unremarkable. The one thing that stands out in my mind is her skills, not any prominent character quirks or flaws. This might sound like a bad thing, but I think it makes her more a person than a character.
But it’s been ages since I’ve played HL2 and my memory isn’t the best at the best of times.
I don’t think anyone’s mentioned the fact that Gordon Freeman doesn’t conform to the macho macho man stereotype either. He’s a nerd in a supersuit, which is appropriate considering the game’s commitment to the very personal 1st person perspective, which ensured that though he might not say a single word, we still felt attached to him. Half life has always been about the common guy.
Albides: The common guy with a doctorate in theoretical physics.
brog: What? Don’t tell me you don’t have a doctorate in theoretical physics! What a newb.
…
I knew someone was going to bring that up.
Still, I can relate more to a scientist than I could do, say, a soldier with bulging muscles. The first Half-life’s opening – in which you go about your routine like on any other day sort of reinforces that. You have a feeling you’re just another guy on his way to work. It’s only later that you’re forced into a martial role. Then there’s that perspective “realism” I talked about making you empathise with the whole thing that little bit more. So Gordon Freeman isn’t a hero, he’s an ordinary guy, albiet highly educated, forced into heroic deeds.
He’s probably even more of an underdog, considering that nerds are considered even less appropriate for a heroic role than ordinary guys. At least the everyman probably gets out some.
Albides: Working on it, takes a while (well, maths, but it’s related and I’ve been having to listen to a lot of physicists lately). But most people don’t; it’s a lot of work and the thought of having a regular job with predictable hours and decent money can be very tempting.
Freeman might as well be the Doom Marine, they are functionally the same. Hell, in Doom 3 you’re just Joe Shmoe new guy on his way to his new post.
@Albides
For one thing, do get around to the episodes, they’re fantastic. For another, understand that Alyx plays a much bigger role in both of them, to the point where it wouldn’t be a stretch to call them cooperative games. Accordingly she’s fleshed out more and more as the series progresses (although I think they did a fine job in HL2).
Classy Sexy, good. Trashy sexy bad. Now with that out of the way:
“Do you see how you’re really rather enforcing the reputation we wish this industry didn’t deserve?”
“This is why people don’t gaming seriously” type comments are alway brought out in these arguments, but does anyone really believe this? I mean a comic about spandex superheroes and superheroines using superpowers to fight all sorts of crazy and colourful supervillians that doesn’t feature pornstar females is still a comic about spandex superheroes and superheroines using superpowers to fight all sorts of crazy and colourful supervillians. If from this point on all games featured normally proportioned females in realistic outfits, I doubt it would have any effect on those who already don’t take gaming seriously.
Freeman might as well be the Doom Marine, they are functionally the same. Hell, in Doom 3 you’re just Joe Shmoe new guy on his way to his new post.
You make a good point, but in this case I think a blank-slate character was used quite intentionally rather than because it’s just the way things were (or are) in the FPS world. It’s clear that Valve’s intention is to essentially eliminate Gordon as a character, that he might be more effective vessel for the player. So far they’ve been very successful. Alternately, there is still something strangely intriguing about him, whereas no one could be bothered to find out who the Doom marine is.
I’m going to have to call a feminist BINGO! here.
I don’t really like the macho thing either. Or rather, if you do it then your story becomes fantasy. For example, Brothers in Arms does the whole farmboy-affected-by-war thing rather well. Whereas in Company of Heroes, everyone is built like a fricken’ tank, and spouts gruff crap that makes you want to punch their faces in.
Actually, ironically, the characters in CoH seem more realistic in-game, being more likely to die horribly than the cast of BiA, who can take down entire regiments with a four-man fireteam.
This just in: If you can’t fit a bat inside your bra, you aren’t doing it right / After five hours, the bats are released
Alyx Vance is pretty toned down as female characters go, for sure. Any problems seem to draw attention to the player centred gaming ethic more than anything else, for me. But that does hurt the character. It’s weird ’cause I find myself wishing she was … cooler (ie, more like all those typical hyper-competent female characters, if only slightly). The Gordon-fangirl vibe really gets weird after a while, “Oh Gordon that was amazing, thank you!” (quiet double-entendrites) “Really? All I did was wear a fantastically armoured suit and point its light at some zombies so you could shoot them. And you’re effectively naked as far as physical harm goes. Give yourself some credit! Oh, that’s right, I can’t talk.”
The partnership thing works really well for the most part, functionally speaking. It’d be even more effective if her character kinda developed along with it and became a more relaxed compadre sort, to me anyway. Oh well. You can’t counterweight the entirety of the gaming and comic girl canon with one character.
Alyx wasn’t as bad in Ep 2 :-)
Slightly OT:
Anyway, I hate this D-cup policy in games. Really hate. I am finding it plain FUGLY. That’s not about sex, that’s about aesthetics. Plastic surgery and all. Anybody played Wizardry 8? Female models there were just ridiculous.
P.S. That said, I actually find Witcher models fitting in the game (heh) (and in reality – albeit with higher concentration of voluptuous women, but at the same time there were other models – Rayla for example). More variations would be nice, but you know, corsets can visually increase the content :-)
P.P.S. About the best female character in PC – I vote for Junko Zane from Freelancer. Killer figure (hey, why the in-game cut-scenes in (arcadish) spacecraft simulator, done in game engine has to look SO good? isn’t it insane? :-)) and nice character overall I would say.
Kerrigan was pretty good, IIRC. Also, Lady Diedre Skye.