http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4478247.html

See those? Scans from a comic in which a woman is assaulted and threatened, naked, in the shower, and it is NOT rape-or-iffic. If the comics community can even manage it, why the hell can’t the gaming community?

Personally, I have no problem with sexy stuff in anything. The problem is with the assumption that there is only ONE way that things can be sexy. Not everyone likes skinny chicks with big tits, that walk around half-naked and pose like a Maxim model. (Oh and, BTW, as someone who has tried it, posing in most of the ways required not only cocks-out your back but it gives you gas as well).

I don’t find the above image sexy, and I love me some boobage. Just like I don’t find these things sexy…

http://www.amazon.com/LOVEFIFI-Deluxe-String-of-Bubbles/dp/B0011B6NSA/ref=pd_sbs_a_5

Because that sort of thing doesn’t actually have anything to do with the woman involved. She’s just a convenient prop; a realdoll. If that’s your thing, then great, enjoy it. But can’t I please have some sexy, too?

And seriously, regardless of physics-defying stunts… even a light jog without a sports bra, when you have average or larger tits, is PAINFUL. Imagine if someone strapped a fat lead weight to your whatsit and forced you to jump up and down. I could not play a game as a female character dressed like that; it would be disconcerting, and I certainly don’t want to be her.

Think the original Silent Hill where it was quite hyped about having an average joe main character who wasn’t even very good at shooting stuff with a gun and often missed etc… Sure you ended up killing an awful lot of things in the game (and you didn’t miss that much, else combat would be worse), but the character was still better than most guys in games, and a step in the right direction, not only in his abilities but also his motives and morals.

As for the world saving missions, yes, those tend to get old also, you can have smaller scale stories that are just as exciting if you present the story properly, make the player care for the characters and what happens to them, and put them in more realistic distress than some comet heading to earth or am evil god getting resurrected.

Think of the Odyssey, the guy just wants to get home dammit, not save the world ;)

I’m not sure if the commenter who said “any problems draw attention to the player centered gaming ethic more than anything else” was decrying this particular videogame trope (of having everything orbiting the player character), but I’ve seen a decent amount of people who complain that game worlds seem to be too much about the player’s presence in them, and that they don’t really want to be the one to save the Earth/galaxy/universe. Some say they just want more games where they can play “the normal guy”.

I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, it’s just I wonder what sort of game they want to play, since when I read some of those people’s other opinions it sounds like the “player centered gaming ethic” is actually codespeak for “interesting things happen to the player character”, and I assume (perhaps wrongly) that a game where you play the “normal guy” is a game where nothing really happens or can happen, and I can’t really see how that would be better or more fun than a regular you’re-the-super-megahero game (of course, these are both extremes and there’s plenty of space in between those).

Or maybe by “I want to play the normal guy” they mean they just want to play someone like CJ from GTA:SA or Niko from GTAIV. I’ll never know.

That was probably a pretty inarticulate way of explaining myself but those questions that usually come to me are so vague I can’t really put them any other way.

I’m not saying I support the lamentable example shown in the post; far from it, it really strikes me as quite stupid, but I don’t tend to hold very strong opinions about stuff like this… it’s just I get the impression that if Alyx Vance is “a terrible example”, we’re not going to have the kind of “realistic” characters commenters are calling for very soon.

However, since all of this has already been run through several times, I’d rather ask: how would you fix the issue brought up a few comments ago by someone who accused the Alyx element in HL2 of being too sycophantic? I’m sure we’ve all (?) been annoyed at one time or another by a character that won’t stop telling you to move on or come on… apparently, though, her constant congratulations are also aggravating and demeaning to her character; if she just stops commenting on anything you, as the player character, perform, though, it starts to seem a little bit like “shut everyone up lest we offend someone’s sensibilities”. Thoughts?

(I also had another question relating to another comment about the “gamer-centered ethic” and people who want to play “normal guys”, but I’m leaving that for after the next comment, if this thread hasn’t completely died yet.)

I’m making the maybe not so wild assumption that the thing we’re having a problem with is that the only way a lot of developers/gamewriters can characterize male and female characters is something like the Terminator for men and Jenna Jameson for women (pushing to extremes here, but just to make a point).

I remember reading an article on how they shaped Alyx’s behavior a while back, and I’ll link it if I can remember where I found it.

It’s also mentioned in the developer’s commentary you can turn on in the game after finishing it. Alyx’ voiceactor (Merle Dandridge) talks quite a lot about her job doing the voicework and the reasonings behind much of her character.

Interesting stuff :)

I don’t think it would be weird or “gay” to have a male sidekick (Barney would fit in well) telling you that you’re doing well in the same manner Alyx does. You would obviously not use the same words and body language, because Alyx is written as a woman and women are not the same as men. There’s nothing morally wrong with acknowdedging that.

This isn’t because Valve is sexist, it’s because in playtests, players reacted badly to Alyx being more hostile to the player, chiding them for their failures and asking them to hurry up and such. The reaction tends toward “What a bitch. When can I leave her?” This isn’t conjecture; I remember reading an article on how they shaped Alyx’s behavior a while back, and I’ll link it if I can remember where I found it.

On the other hand, as you bring up, male subordinates in games tend to be silent. They aren’t sycophantic, and they don’t backtalk: they’re quiet and professional. They don’t spend very much of their time telling you how much they admire you. The closest thing I can think of is the marines in Halo games yelling “Sweet!” as you send the Warthog over a jump or something – and even then, that’s less sycophant and more buddy-buddy. If males are subordinate they act the part silently and don’t spend time gushing over how good a job you’re doing.

If they did, we’d find it a little bit weird. We’d assume mancrushery. But it doesn’t seem out of place with a female sidekick.

. . .

Also, on the subject of bust: I understand how the trend started in earlier videogames. I think it had less to do with huge boobs and more to do with being able to differentiate between male and female models despite them being reduced to itty bitty sprites on the screen. For example, Annah from Planescape: Torment. I’m pretty sure the model you see on the character screen is the same one you’ve got walking around in-game, and while the latter doesn’t seem out of place, the character portrait sports off-puttingly huge breasts. If my theory is right, this is simply a result of having to be able to glance at your little isometric figures walking around and pick out the men from the ladies without squinting. It’s the same thing with the hairstyles in the old FF games: you can’t really do much with the facial features of those little sprites, so you need to give them wildly varying profiles in order to make them all look different enough. Hence the hair.

Still, current generation graphics make this less of a viable excuse.

Also: Feminist Bingo is genius. I’m bookmarking this for future use.

I think you can have males admire other males without making people think they’re gay (not that it would be so wrong if they were) and/or attracted to them. Look how everyone admires Neo in The Matrix or basically how everyone admires most every super hero. It’s all in how it’s presented. Heck, most real world teen males admire their favorite heroes anyway and fight over who would beat who.