Comments on: Behind C&C’s Iron Curtain http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/ Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:09:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: RichPowers http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71915 RichPowers Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:23:35 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71915 I don't care who makes a game, so long as it's good and bug-free and well supported. The problem isn't outsourcing, but lack of QA. <i>Kane's Wrath</i> and <i>Soulstorm</i> are good examples, especially the former (some EA dude even issued a statement saying that EA's post-release support of the C&C series has been abysmal). I don’t care who makes a game, so long as it’s good and bug-free and well supported. The problem isn’t outsourcing, but lack of QA. Kane’s Wrath and Soulstorm are good examples, especially the former (some EA dude even issued a statement saying that EA’s post-release support of the C&C series has been abysmal).

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]]> By: Erlam http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71788 Erlam Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:49:06 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71788 I'm also curious how having a different team (who are often off-shoots of the company that made the original) make expansions is somehow terrible. Look at the beloved Homeworld series -- Cataclysm was made out of studio, and <i>scored better than the game it was an expansion for</i>. Not to mention that as a company grows, different team members take over old jobs. So just because company 'x' made whatever game, doesn't mean those same people will make the expansions, or even the sequels. I’m also curious how having a different team (who are often off-shoots of the company that made the original) make expansions is somehow terrible. Look at the beloved Homeworld series — Cataclysm was made out of studio, and scored better than the game it was an expansion for.

Not to mention that as a company grows, different team members take over old jobs. So just because company ‘x’ made whatever game, doesn’t mean those same people will make the expansions, or even the sequels.

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]]> By: George http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71641 George Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:03:41 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71641 As a working developer, I'm getting increasingly tired of the internet-wide attitude that some developers are worthy and some developers are not, some developers are saints, some developers are villains. <blockquote>Is it a coincidence that after EA dropped five of its top technical people from the team (see chart above), Kane's Wrath suffered as many technical problems as it did? Is it surprising that after losing its Lead Balance Designer, Kane's Wrath has balance problems?</blockquote> The author of the article is just so depressingly far out of line. Magical wonderful him, able to identify all these balance problems and find all these bugs that the developers and QA team couldn't. Or maybe they are perfectly capable, but just weren't given the same amount of time, because an expansion pack isn't a priority. And "is it surprising" that the article author completely ignores the Global Conquest stuff, despite that being completely new and "[deserving of] high praise" (-KG). I hate the pervasive attitude that if a company makes a mediocre game, then they are incapable of doing better next time and all its employees are hacks. And while I think that's slightly beyond what he's saying (it's perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back), his conclusions are such bullshit. Small expansion packs like this are what gives upcoming developers their break, their chance to grow and afford to create the next awesome blockbuster game. The idea that publishers should deny these developers these projects is utter crap and so dangerous. It's disappointing that you guys give it a wider airing. I can easily see it becoming one of those memes that enters internet forums - check the credits on release day and if it's not the same team, then decry the game as "sure to be unworthy". And then how does that help anyone. Got a bit ranty, sorry. As a working developer, I’m getting increasingly tired of the internet-wide attitude that some developers are worthy and some developers are not, some developers are saints, some developers are villains.

Is it a coincidence that after EA dropped five of its top technical people from the team (see chart above), Kane’s Wrath suffered as many technical problems as it did? Is it surprising that after losing its Lead Balance Designer, Kane’s Wrath has balance problems?

The author of the article is just so depressingly far out of line. Magical wonderful him, able to identify all these balance problems and find all these bugs that the developers and QA team couldn’t. Or maybe they are perfectly capable, but just weren’t given the same amount of time, because an expansion pack isn’t a priority. And “is it surprising” that the article author completely ignores the Global Conquest stuff, despite that being completely new and “[deserving of] high praise” (-KG).

I hate the pervasive attitude that if a company makes a mediocre game, then they are incapable of doing better next time and all its employees are hacks. And while I think that’s slightly beyond what he’s saying (it’s perhaps the straw that broke the camel’s back), his conclusions are such bullshit. Small expansion packs like this are what gives upcoming developers their break, their chance to grow and afford to create the next awesome blockbuster game. The idea that publishers should deny these developers these projects is utter crap and so dangerous. It’s disappointing that you guys give it a wider airing. I can easily see it becoming one of those memes that enters internet forums – check the credits on release day and if it’s not the same team, then decry the game as “sure to be unworthy”. And then how does that help anyone.

Got a bit ranty, sorry.

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]]> By: RichPowers http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71629 RichPowers Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:26:10 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71629 Relic outsourced <i>Dawn of War: Soulstorm</i>; it's arguably the worst of the expandalones, though by no means terrible. The other RTS expansion you mention, from what I recall, are fairly generic as well. <a href="http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=89520" title="" rel="nofollow">Blue's News also reports</a> that <i>Kane's Wrath</i> has an issue with SecuROM that causes explorer.exe to crash. EA has since fixed it, but that problem shouldn't exist in the first place. Relic outsourced Dawn of War: Soulstorm; it’s arguably the worst of the expandalones, though by no means terrible. The other RTS expansion you mention, from what I recall, are fairly generic as well.

Blue’s News also reports that Kane’s Wrath has an issue with SecuROM that causes explorer.exe to crash. EA has since fixed it, but that problem shouldn’t exist in the first place.

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]]> By: New Guy http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71620 New Guy Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:21:32 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71620 This isn't the first time a C&C game was outsourced. All the Red Alert expansion pack(CounterStrike and Aftermath) to Intelligent Games. They also handled Dune 2000 and Emperor Battle for Dune. It's Westwood tradition to outsource expansion packs. Even Blizzard outsourced Beyond the Dark Portal and Broodwar. Capcom with Resident Evil Code Veronica, Konami with the upcoming Silent Hill Homecoming. This isn’t the first time a C&C game was outsourced. All the Red Alert expansion pack(CounterStrike and Aftermath) to Intelligent Games. They also handled Dune 2000 and Emperor Battle for Dune. It’s Westwood tradition to outsource expansion packs.
Even Blizzard outsourced Beyond the Dark Portal and Broodwar. Capcom with Resident Evil Code Veronica, Konami with the upcoming Silent Hill Homecoming.

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]]> By: JonFitt http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71497 JonFitt Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:58:15 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71497 CoH:OF is a direct contradiction to the "expansion packs are shovelled out to extract more money", it's an excellent addition to a fine game, and I'm just sad it took me until recently to buy it. Relic are definitely my top pick for RTSs of late. Although, more Homeworld plz! CoH:OF is a direct contradiction to the “expansion packs are shovelled out to extract more money”, it’s an excellent addition to a fine game, and I’m just sad it took me until recently to buy it.
Relic are definitely my top pick for RTSs of late.
Although, more Homeworld plz!

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]]> By: Zeitgeist http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71493 Zeitgeist Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:42:25 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71493 Perhaps this explains why it took months to get the first patch out? Perhaps this explains why it took months to get the first patch out?

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]]> By: Chris R http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71489 Chris R Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:21:51 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71489 I also liked KW, and thought the factions were pretty neat, catering to different play styles. I'm much more a "tanks n armor" guy, so I loved that the Titans and Wolverines made a comeback. I also liked KW, and thought the factions were pretty neat, catering to different play styles. I’m much more a “tanks n armor” guy, so I loved that the Titans and Wolverines made a comeback.

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]]> By: CitizenErazed http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71483 CitizenErazed Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:47:31 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71483 I liked KW. Enough was done well or tried that was new that I could forgive the problems, and I never scream about BALANCE OMG because I play about one multiplayer game a month, so the imbalances are less obvious. Plus the Global Warfare mode was new, interesting, and rather well done, the only problem being that the skirmish maps seemed to have no correlation to where you were in the world. Oh, and there was no naval combat. I liked KW. Enough was done well or tried that was new that I could forgive the problems, and I never scream about BALANCE OMG because I play about one multiplayer game a month, so the imbalances are less obvious.

Plus the Global Warfare mode was new, interesting, and rather well done, the only problem being that the skirmish maps seemed to have no correlation to where you were in the world. Oh, and there was no naval combat.

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]]> By: FhnuZoag http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71480 FhnuZoag Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:39:05 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71480 I suspect (or hope?) most of the important people were far more interested in working on Red Alert 3. I suspect (or hope?) most of the important people were far more interested in working on Red Alert 3.

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]]> By: edcalaban http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71475 edcalaban Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:20:11 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71475 Kane's Wrath was fun, but like you noted the campaign was lackluster to say the least. The lore was fun though. Kane’s Wrath was fun, but like you noted the campaign was lackluster to say the least. The lore was fun though.

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]]> By: Dolphan http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/07/21/behind-ccs-iron-curtain/#comment-71473 Dolphan Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:17:09 +0000 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2171#comment-71473 Conquests was a pretty good expansion for Civ 3, IIRC. Conquests was a pretty good expansion for Civ 3, IIRC.

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