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	<title>Comments on: Blizzpoints</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/</link>
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		<title>By: Hermit</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-150123</link>
		<dc:creator>Hermit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-150123</guid>
		<description>Eventually, someone is going to come up with a &quot;Metascore&quot; website, which will take all your 360 and GFWL achievements, PS3 trophies, Steam Achievements, Greenhouse Achievements, Blizzpoints, etc and then turn them all into one single number for ultimate e-peen battling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eventually, someone is going to come up with a &#8220;Metascore&#8221; website, which will take all your 360 and GFWL achievements, PS3 trophies, Steam Achievements, Greenhouse Achievements, Blizzpoints, etc and then turn them all into one single number for ultimate e-peen battling.</p>
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		<title>By: malkav11</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75629</link>
		<dc:creator>malkav11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75629</guid>
		<description>CryingMinotaur - for the most part, you *can* ignore ridiculous or grindy achievements. There are only two circumstances I can think of where you arguably might not be able to - if the achievement gave you some important benefit in game (like how the TF2 medic achievements used to work), or if the achievement were an automatic reward for completing some ridiculous or grindy part of the game that was required to move forwards. I&#039;m for in-game rewards for achievements (they work splendidly in Mass Effect), but I would agree that those sorts of achievements are wrong for a reward system (unless you&#039;re simply trying to provide rewards for long-term play, like City of Heroes&#039; veterancy program). And if the game requires that sort of thing just to progress, and you don&#039;t want to do it, then obviously that&#039;s the wrong game for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CryingMinotaur &#8211; for the most part, you *can* ignore ridiculous or grindy achievements. There are only two circumstances I can think of where you arguably might not be able to &#8211; if the achievement gave you some important benefit in game (like how the TF2 medic achievements used to work), or if the achievement were an automatic reward for completing some ridiculous or grindy part of the game that was required to move forwards. I&#8217;m for in-game rewards for achievements (they work splendidly in Mass Effect), but I would agree that those sorts of achievements are wrong for a reward system (unless you&#8217;re simply trying to provide rewards for long-term play, like City of Heroes&#8217; veterancy program). And if the game requires that sort of thing just to progress, and you don&#8217;t want to do it, then obviously that&#8217;s the wrong game for you.</p>
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		<title>By: alphaxion</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75364</link>
		<dc:creator>alphaxion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 07:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75364</guid>
		<description>well, it&#039;s not a rumour they are in WotLK and they involve some really inane things - almost as though they&#039;re pisstakes out of the whole thing.

You have &quot;furthest you have fallen without dieing&quot; or &quot;you have hugged X amount of people&quot; and &quot;you have said lol x amount of times&quot; plus grindy ones like &quot;you have completed 100,000 quests&quot;.

I would prefer if many of the achievements are simply absurd things that you&#039;d only try to get when pissed... might give a game a new breath of life.

achievement unlocked, aggro whore: you have aggro&#039;d the entire map!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, it&#8217;s not a rumour they are in WotLK and they involve some really inane things &#8211; almost as though they&#8217;re pisstakes out of the whole thing.</p>
<p>You have &#8220;furthest you have fallen without dieing&#8221; or &#8220;you have hugged X amount of people&#8221; and &#8220;you have said lol x amount of times&#8221; plus grindy ones like &#8220;you have completed 100,000 quests&#8221;.</p>
<p>I would prefer if many of the achievements are simply absurd things that you&#8217;d only try to get when pissed&#8230; might give a game a new breath of life.</p>
<p>achievement unlocked, aggro whore: you have aggro&#8217;d the entire map!</p>
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		<title>By: UncleLou</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75358</link>
		<dc:creator>UncleLou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75358</guid>
		<description>Worked well in Mythos, where achievements would allow you to gain some minor improvements, adding an additional layer of character customisation (build-wise, not visually).

&lt;i&gt;Meh. I hate leveling! My “character” is just fine. If games companies don’t stop mistaking tabletop RPG’s least imaginative innovation&lt;/i&gt;

Seeing how the levelling and character building process is generally seen as one of the most fun aspects of the genre, maybe you should consider playing something different? Or read  a few books indeed, that can&#039;t hurt ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worked well in Mythos, where achievements would allow you to gain some minor improvements, adding an additional layer of character customisation (build-wise, not visually).</p>
<p><i>Meh. I hate leveling! My “character” is just fine. If games companies don’t stop mistaking tabletop RPG’s least imaginative innovation</i></p>
<p>Seeing how the levelling and character building process is generally seen as one of the most fun aspects of the genre, maybe you should consider playing something different? Or read  a few books indeed, that can&#8217;t hurt ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Konky Dong 2: Apocalypse</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75334</link>
		<dc:creator>Konky Dong 2: Apocalypse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75334</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in the WotLK beta and I have to say that the achievemetns feel really tacked on. I was hoping they would be integrated better within the game (maybe something like LotRO&#039;s Deed system) but they&#039;re ripped wholesale from XBL.

It&#039;s sad because WoW was already a giant achievement machine. Achievements you can show off to your friends and peers (taking the form of loot and items) is what the entire game is based on. The new XBL achievement system is just kind of limp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in the WotLK beta and I have to say that the achievemetns feel really tacked on. I was hoping they would be integrated better within the game (maybe something like LotRO&#8217;s Deed system) but they&#8217;re ripped wholesale from XBL.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sad because WoW was already a giant achievement machine. Achievements you can show off to your friends and peers (taking the form of loot and items) is what the entire game is based on. The new XBL achievement system is just kind of limp.</p>
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		<title>By: CryingMinotaur</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75330</link>
		<dc:creator>CryingMinotaur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75330</guid>
		<description>Although many people seem to genuinely enjoy them, in many cases I find achievements to be an unnecessary external motivator that distract from the immersion and fun of the game (see this for an explanation of what I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification)
 
I just want to be able to play my game in peace without having to worry about pulling off some statistically near-impossible feat or ridiculous grindathlon. Try going back and picture a classic like Deus Ex or Half-Life with achievements: for example, a counter displaying how many headcrabs I managed to kill with the crowbar seems stupid and inconsistent with the overall concept of total immersion Half-Life was striving for. Just doesn&#039;t feel right, if you ask me.

Btw, while on the topic of Blizzard, here&#039;s what Diablo III&#039;s lead designer had to say about those pesky fan-altered screenshots: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/08/04/diablo-iii-designer-turns-tables/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although many people seem to genuinely enjoy them, in many cases I find achievements to be an unnecessary external motivator that distract from the immersion and fun of the game (see this for an explanation of what I mean <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification)</a></p>
<p>I just want to be able to play my game in peace without having to worry about pulling off some statistically near-impossible feat or ridiculous grindathlon. Try going back and picture a classic like Deus Ex or Half-Life with achievements: for example, a counter displaying how many headcrabs I managed to kill with the crowbar seems stupid and inconsistent with the overall concept of total immersion Half-Life was striving for. Just doesn&#8217;t feel right, if you ask me.</p>
<p>Btw, while on the topic of Blizzard, here&#8217;s what Diablo III&#8217;s lead designer had to say about those pesky fan-altered screenshots: <a href="http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/08/04/diablo-iii-designer-turns-tables/" rel="nofollow">http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/08/04/diablo-iii-designer-turns-tables/</a></p>
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		<title>By: mister slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75275</link>
		<dc:creator>mister slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 22:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75275</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m torn. Do I play World of Blizzard or &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theonion.com/content/video/warcraft_sequel_lets_gamers_play&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;World of World of Warcraft&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m torn. Do I play World of Blizzard or <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/video/warcraft_sequel_lets_gamers_play" rel="nofollow">World of World of Warcraft</a>?</p>
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		<title>By: RichPowers</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75258</link>
		<dc:creator>RichPowers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75258</guid>
		<description>I can ignore regular ol&#039; achievements. Achievements tied to unlockable weapons, especially in FPS&#039;s like &lt;i&gt;Battlefield 2&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Team Fortress 2&lt;/i&gt;, annoy me endlessly. If Blizzpoints are entirely cosmetic (&quot;here&#039;s a new shiny avatar to show off on the forums!!!111&quot;), fine, but I&#039;d hate to access to content contingent on killing X creatures using attack Y in Z seconds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can ignore regular ol&#8217; achievements. Achievements tied to unlockable weapons, especially in FPS&#8217;s like <i>Battlefield 2</i> and <i>Team Fortress 2</i>, annoy me endlessly. If Blizzpoints are entirely cosmetic (&#8221;here&#8217;s a new shiny avatar to show off on the forums!!!111&#8243;), fine, but I&#8217;d hate to access to content contingent on killing X creatures using attack Y in Z seconds.</p>
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		<title>By: DosFreak</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75253</link>
		<dc:creator>DosFreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75253</guid>
		<description>To the above poster wanting to know why people complain about achievements:

I don&#039;t know about anyone else but for me I don&#039;t want achievements in my games because I don&#039;t care about them. I don&#039;t want to have any notification of any lame ass achievements in my game. If I can turn them off then fine I&#039;m okay with that. If I can&#039;t then I&#039;m not going to buy your game. It&#039;s like advertisements. I don&#039;t watch advertisements. I&#039;ve mocked them since I was 6 and continue to do so to this day.  

It&#039;s the same thing with DRM/Securom/selling overheating GPU&#039;s  (GTX 280). If I don&#039;t like it and if I can&#039;t do anything about it them I&#039;m not going to buy it.


Diablo isn&#039;t really much of a game anyway unless you like clickfests and with it being W3ed/WOWED it probably won&#039;t be worth playing. I guess we&#039;ll see when it comes out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the above poster wanting to know why people complain about achievements:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about anyone else but for me I don&#8217;t want achievements in my games because I don&#8217;t care about them. I don&#8217;t want to have any notification of any lame ass achievements in my game. If I can turn them off then fine I&#8217;m okay with that. If I can&#8217;t then I&#8217;m not going to buy your game. It&#8217;s like advertisements. I don&#8217;t watch advertisements. I&#8217;ve mocked them since I was 6 and continue to do so to this day.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s the same thing with DRM/Securom/selling overheating GPU&#8217;s  (GTX 280). If I don&#8217;t like it and if I can&#8217;t do anything about it them I&#8217;m not going to buy it.</p>
<p>Diablo isn&#8217;t really much of a game anyway unless you like clickfests and with it being W3ed/WOWED it probably won&#8217;t be worth playing. I guess we&#8217;ll see when it comes out.</p>
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		<title>By: malkav11</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75246</link>
		<dc:creator>malkav11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75246</guid>
		<description>I like achievements, but this seems pointless. The part of achievements that I dig is having a bunch of little merit badge type things in a central location so that I can look back at my accomplishments with pride. Also, gamerscore is amusing. But when the achievements *don&#039;t* feed back into a central tracker (or do in this case, but a separate central tracker than most of my games), then it loses those aspects. I only bother with Mass Effect PC&#039;s totally untracked, unconnected achievements because they have tangible in-game effects like unlocking weaponry in the shop and giving additional experience. Having stats on three games (one of which I stopped playing long ago) isn&#039;t much of an improvement. Maybe they&#039;ll partner up with Valve sometime and link these into Steam? Please?

This, incidentally, is why I don&#039;t feel like achievements work on PC - they&#039;re a brilliant idea on 360, but that&#039;s because Microsoft can and did mandate their inclusion in every single game on the platform, with a central tracker and thorough integration. The next best thing on PC (minus the three or four games that use GfW Live) is Steam - and as far as I know the only games that use Steam achievements to date are a) Valve&#039;s own Orange Box games (so far discounting HL2 and Episode One, despite those games having achievements on 360 that could be transferred quite easily), and b) a handful of indie games like Audiosurf and Penny Arcade Adventures. Not exactly comprehensive even over the limited selection of games that use Steam as a platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like achievements, but this seems pointless. The part of achievements that I dig is having a bunch of little merit badge type things in a central location so that I can look back at my accomplishments with pride. Also, gamerscore is amusing. But when the achievements *don&#8217;t* feed back into a central tracker (or do in this case, but a separate central tracker than most of my games), then it loses those aspects. I only bother with Mass Effect PC&#8217;s totally untracked, unconnected achievements because they have tangible in-game effects like unlocking weaponry in the shop and giving additional experience. Having stats on three games (one of which I stopped playing long ago) isn&#8217;t much of an improvement. Maybe they&#8217;ll partner up with Valve sometime and link these into Steam? Please?</p>
<p>This, incidentally, is why I don&#8217;t feel like achievements work on PC &#8211; they&#8217;re a brilliant idea on 360, but that&#8217;s because Microsoft can and did mandate their inclusion in every single game on the platform, with a central tracker and thorough integration. The next best thing on PC (minus the three or four games that use GfW Live) is Steam &#8211; and as far as I know the only games that use Steam achievements to date are a) Valve&#8217;s own Orange Box games (so far discounting HL2 and Episode One, despite those games having achievements on 360 that could be transferred quite easily), and b) a handful of indie games like Audiosurf and Penny Arcade Adventures. Not exactly comprehensive even over the limited selection of games that use Steam as a platform.</p>
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		<title>By: El Stevo</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75225</link>
		<dc:creator>El Stevo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75225</guid>
		<description>I remember reading about achievements back before the 360 came out and thinking it was a cool idea. Then I got a 360 and it turns out I don&#039;t give a shit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading about achievements back before the 360 came out and thinking it was a cool idea. Then I got a 360 and it turns out I don&#8217;t give a shit.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxman</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/04/blizzpoints/comment-page-1/#comment-75223</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2235#comment-75223</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m rather indifferent to achievements so I don&#039;t go out of my to get them except for one case.

Insomniac Games &amp; Naughty Dog (Sony only studios) as far as I know came up with proto-achievements back on the PS2 but called them skill points &amp; gave you extras such as cheats, game art, how it was made etc as a reward.

That always spurred me on to get them as there was an actual reward instead of just inflating a score or just collect them all which seems to be the trend of achievements now. I wish other games would take a page out of their book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m rather indifferent to achievements so I don&#8217;t go out of my to get them except for one case.</p>
<p>Insomniac Games &amp; Naughty Dog (Sony only studios) as far as I know came up with proto-achievements back on the PS2 but called them skill points &amp; gave you extras such as cheats, game art, how it was made etc as a reward.</p>
<p>That always spurred me on to get them as there was an actual reward instead of just inflating a score or just collect them all which seems to be the trend of achievements now. I wish other games would take a page out of their book.</p>
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