By Kieron Gillen on August 5th, 2008 at 6:54 pm.
If you’re a regular reader of the finest PC gaming site on Earth, you’ll be aware that Old Man Murray hasn’t updated in years and you’re probably wondering why you keep on clicking there. But people who read us regularly will remember that the tenacious terrier of games journalism, Mat Kumar, had a quick go at Fallout 3 while at E3. Last Friday, I was left alone with the game for about an hour.
And this is what I made of it.
Actually, before I start, I’ll better show my cards. Every piece about Fallout 3 is picked over by obsessive people from either side – because, it seems, you have to have a side with Fallout 3 – looking for weaknesses in moral character. Rather than people worrying whether I’m a casual apologist or whatever, here’s the way I’m wired. While having played both the original Fallouts, I didn’t obsessively – they came out in a non-PC-owning year, and went back too late. That said, RPGs remain my definitive genre, though I’d put the boundaries further than most purists. And, probably most damningly, I don’t care about game lineages whatsoever. If Fallout 3 was a Rainbow-Islands-inspired upwards-scrolling platformer, I would only object if it was a pale imitation of those tiny-lesbians (NO REALLY!) Bub and Bob’s finest hour. And that applies just as strongly to games I adore as games I merely respect too, before anyone goes in that direction.
And, with all that said, Fallout 3 was mostly highly entertaining.
Mostly.
This is probably an artifact of the shortened time experience, but the moments I loved the most weren’t the post-apocalypse gloom ones. They were the sense of playfulness to it. I was going through the game straight – that is, heading into town, chatting to everyone, taking a quest, going for a nice little explore and then getting torn apart by a thing with claws the size of my entire body.
(By which you can read: I suspect the level-scaling problems of Oblivion are well gone. Though that caused the problem of me being torn apart. Oh, you know what I mean.)
But even as I was basically playing it seriously, I was attracted to the slightly goofy stuff. Which is, thankfully, goofy in exactly the right post-apocalyptic way you’d hope. For example, I had far too much fun drinking from the toilet. Sure, it was contaminated to shit – pun unintended, but I can’t actually bring myself to press backspace now – but it quenched the thirst and the juxtaposition of the hungry-slurping sound-effect and a bowl that hasn’t seen a brush since the nuclear war 200 years back is inherently glorious. It was almost as splendid as when I killed a bandit, stole his bondage-gear clothes, and wore them, complete with a pair of Gordon-Freeman specs and a baseball cap I’d found. I looked like Rick Moranis gone apeshit crazy, a glorious Mad Max 2 mess.
I say this to note that after all the debate about Fallout 3, and everyone trying to show how much of a serious, grown-up game it is, we shouldn’t think of it as a dour thing. This is, in a blackly comic way, fun.
(And worth stressing that there’s far more standard outfits available for those who like their post-nuclear waste straight).
The writing? Even with an hour – and half of that actually doing the social chat thing – it’s too early to really make a call. If there’s a problem, it’s less with the words or the voice-acting, but the relatively stiff characters as they deliver them. I remember the sheer wonder when I first played Vampire: Bloodlines, with characters who’d actually act like… well, actors. That we’re years on, and only Mass Effect in the RPG has really raised the stakes at all is somewhat depressing.
Oh – and there seems to be more conversation options than Oblivion too. There’s a lot of the classic three (Nice Guy/Mercenary Guy/Cunt), but alternates turned up too. Perhaps predictably with my like of slutting my way through RPGs, I picked the Lady’s Man perk which was soon put to work on a working girl. To get extra information. A little extra information I like to call “Sex”.
Actually, just extra information.
Perhaps oddly, my biggest reservation was what Mat liked a lot. That is, the VATS system. I’m not sure what may have changed – certainly in some demonstrations people have noted it seems to cause fatalities more often than would be reasonable (and lots more gore too). That certainly wasn’t true when I played, making my experience – the gore was extreme, but not comic extreme, and the killing power wasn’t absolute. Talking to another Journalist there, he couldn’t see why anyone would use it when just shooting does the job well enough. I’m not sure I agree – when it works, it’s agreeably cinematic, and it has its own flavour.
The problem is, when it doesn’t work, it just takes you out of the game entirely. Case in point is one of the most common enemies, the Mole Rats. These rodents charge at you and – rather than other creatures which do a back and forth sort of pattern – just repeatedly throw themselves against you at point blank range. You see one approaching and go to VATS. After getting off one shot, the bugger’s on you and you’re unloading at point blank range as it scurries against your legs. Which looks openly silly, as if you were trying to chastise an over-friendly house-pet.
Which, I suppose, is a good thing – the system as a whole appears to operate, but a specific interaction causes problems. It’s only so worrying that Mole Rats were the most common antagonist in my time in the game. Which would have been dispiriting anyway, even if they were a more interesting opponent to fight against. Rats? Bloody Rats? This RPG designer in-joke must be crushed.
That’s a little downbeat to end on. But it is a post-apocalypse game, so perhaps that’s somewhat appropriate.
05/08/2008 at 19:09 cyrenic says:
I was a little worried about the writing because the only dialog I’ve seen out of the game so far was pretty poor, though it was only a snippet. Hopefully the writing stays at least passable as the game progresses.
I’m likely going to wait a while to play this though, Bethesda games tend to be better if you wait until they get patched several (or many) times.
05/08/2008 at 19:10 Willem says:
Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines was excellent.
That’s all I’m going to say.
05/08/2008 at 19:13 Fumarole says:
Well, that was certainly… I don’t know what. A thumbs up? Down? I guess I’ll just keep waiting for the game.
Also, please change the button to Opine Away. Opinion is a noun.
05/08/2008 at 19:14 Kieron Gillen says:
It’s a thumbs-up, but I did lean more on stuff I didn’t like. Because the Mole Rat stuff is absolutely fixable, and I’d like them to.
KG
05/08/2008 at 19:17 Cooper says:
I had the same reservations with the VATS system when it got posted here before. It was gory, sure, but not funny.
The issue seems to be that the gore in Fallout was originally pre-animated. In very fine detail. It was designed to be funny. Often laugh out loud funny.
To make someone’s limbs ripping apart or head imploding a funny thing takes some skill. It seems that the randomisation of the body physics (exclamation mark) engine will result in the same level of hilarity seems too hopeful.
05/08/2008 at 19:20 hello shot says:
Can you explain about this lesbian Bub and Bob thing? How are they even female?
05/08/2008 at 19:28 kadayi says:
Much as I like Mass Effects vocal/visual work, I’d say I preferred VTM:B because the fixed first person view added to the impact, and to me it’s still the benchmark other RPGs have yet to reach. The Girl Vampire on the beach = stand out moment. Pity that FO3 hasn’t surpassed it then…
Anyhows K, what’s the inventory management like in Fallout 3, and is looting fairly straight forward or mind numbingly tedious?
05/08/2008 at 19:31 John Walker says:
During my play, you could substitute Mole Rat for Fire Ant. I think it’s going to be a competition between the two for most over-populated and irritating enemy. I hope they lower their numbers. No one has ever enjoyed niggle enemies, ever.
05/08/2008 at 19:31 Pavel says:
So, did you manage in that timeframe to finish some quest(s)? If so, how did you do it (without plot details)? Are there any other ways to do them?
05/08/2008 at 19:32 Charlie says:
Well I’m still excited about this game and I liked your preview. You don’t hype games up, you point out the bad and the good, which lots of journalists just don’t do.
It did seem to emphasise the bad but I can completely understand. They have a really cool post apocalyptic setting to work with and they decide to send rats at you all the time! Is it just to make the other monsters seem more excited when you encounter them? I really don’t understand.
05/08/2008 at 19:54 Jochen Scheisse says:
“I saw a Mole Rat today.”
—-
► Quest
► Trade
► Dialogue
05/08/2008 at 19:56 Tim James says:
Grammar nitpick alert:
Does anyone ever write “pun unintended?” If we’re talking about words rolling off the tongue in the right way, then just put “no pun intended” like everyone else!
05/08/2008 at 20:00 Morbus says:
Good preview, I think, but, oh dear, you said some bad things about Fallout 3! No this place will be full of people complaining! (which is probably something you want :P )
I do have to point out a dire stain in your piece. As pretty much every other previewer, you preview fallout 3 as a Bethesda game, not as a shooter or as a RPG or as a mix of those things. I don’t know, maybe I’m not being fair, but if Fallout 3 were being developed by an unknown company (as in without any previous work) and wasn’t called Fallout 3, would you see it differently?
Seriously.
05/08/2008 at 20:15 Geoff says:
Morbus,
It’s being built with Bethesda’s engine from Oblivion, so that starts everyone off with a good template for look and feel expectations. It’s easier to start off with that and explain how it differs from Oblivion than it is to build up completely from “well, you walk around in a first person view, then click on NPCs to talk to them. Some of them will have the option to trade, while others will not. Anyone can be attacked, but key plot-dependent characters cannot be killed…” and so on.
If it was an unknown company, the previews would still probably say something like “the gameplay resembles Deus Ex more than Final Fantasy, and Bioshock more than Wasteland…”
05/08/2008 at 20:19 EyeMessiah says:
I like “pun unintended”. Its more musical.
05/08/2008 at 20:23 Deadcatt says:
John, one question I have, that will determine if I purchase this game or not. Do they offer Legacy controls? Or is the same controls from Oblivion?
05/08/2008 at 20:24 Morbus says:
That wasn’t my point. I mean, gameplay wasn’t my point. My point was the expectations, but in the sense that maybe he wouldn’t tolerate as much faults as he does, if he does.
I’m just saying. People look at Fallout 3 as a Bethesda game, not judging it for its one (de)merits. If it was an unknown company of half their PR money (god knows where it goes, and maybe some other people too), people would start complaining about no dynamic shadows, about the sloppy animations, about the stupid (not comical) deaths, about the dull AI, about the hand holding even (maybe?). I’m just saying. Lots of people actually complain about those things (more than complaining about the lack of torment-like writing quality, or about the lack of the description box no freaking journalist seems to miss), but they don’t get heard, despite being a large chuck of the potential consumer-base.
At least that was the impression I got from reading the first gameplay footage trailers released last month.
05/08/2008 at 20:25 Morbus says:
From reading the comments to those trailers, I mean.
05/08/2008 at 20:48 Dan (WR) says:
Does melee work in VATS? Are there punchy-kicky animations?
I’m a little disappointed that they’ve fallen back on Mole Rats. The first few hours of Fallout 2 are appalling to replay. Killing Rats, Radscorpions and Geckos is no fun whatsoever.
I’m most looking forward seeing what the writing is like, but any game where you can play a post apocalyptic poo-slurping bondage bandit sounds good to me.
05/08/2008 at 20:57 Willem says:
To be fair, we do complain about all that with Bethesda.
05/08/2008 at 21:08 Bozzl3y says:
I applaud the use of the word “cunt” twice in two days, people just don’t say it (or type it) enough.
Erm, back on topic – the game sounds good.
05/08/2008 at 21:31 Optimaximal says:
Often for good reason!
05/08/2008 at 21:40 Kieron Gillen says:
Our general rude on C is “only when it’s funny”. It’s relatively heavy ordnance and should only be used appropriately.
Re: Melee VATS. Didn’t have a chance to check it out.
KG
05/08/2008 at 21:40 Maximum Fish says:
Vampire Bloodlines had spectacular writing and spectacular delivery. I loved Mass Effect, but it didn’t even come close (in my opinion anyways). Bioware’s writing has recently (Jade Empire, Mass Effect) been really stilted and painfully unsubtle, maybe owing to their console-focus these days. Mass Effect’s delivery was good, but the dialog wasn’t an iota as clever as the writing in Vampire.
Also, Fallout 3 has huge shoes to fill itself in the writing department, as second to Vampire (and maybe Escape from Butcher Bay – but that’s not an RPG) is the original Fallout.
05/08/2008 at 22:00 Killzig says:
Kieron,
Do we have iron sights?
05/08/2008 at 22:04 matte_k says:
Hmm… Bethesda ran a competition a while back to design a perk, the winning entry making it into the game. My entry was something VERY similar (read: exactly) to that perk, even though it didn’t win. I mean, it’s a fairly good chance that somebody came up with the idea at the company, but…
you have to wonder…
Still, shameless plundering aside :D i’m looking forward to this. “Darkly comic” is what i’m after.
05/08/2008 at 22:14 LionsPhil says:
Mole Rat? Fire Ant? Where the hell are the radscorpions? Ye Gods, you have one screen, one screen of rats, then move on to the mutant, gigantic scorpions. And raiders. And, generally, mostly empty wasteland.
Sounds like Bethsda are going to turn this into another Oblivion grindfest. I can’t wait to stab rats for two hours before I can learn how to use a gun, no sir-ee!
05/08/2008 at 22:30 Bet says:
Have you no shame, Mr. Gillen?! You got my hopes up that Old Man Murray had updated just to talk about Fallout 3 :( Erik Wolpaw, Chet Faliszek where are you guys! Oh right…Valve…
05/08/2008 at 22:31 Arcanum says:
Regarding VATS being less lethal and gory: I’m guessing that’s a combination of the character no longer having the Bloody Mess perk, which makes any kill ludicrously gruesome, and starting with less powerful weapons. Just speculation based on previous previews.
Good article, though! Glad to hear about some nice, black humor. :)
05/08/2008 at 22:32 Kieron Gillen says:
Arcanum: That’s my theory too.
KG
05/08/2008 at 22:36 Briosafreak says:
Melee works on VATS mode, but without body part specific damage. While you can aim for different body parts using fire or energy weapons, melee just let you punch or kick in general terms, no aiming for the head or the legs.
05/08/2008 at 22:40 Janek says:
Aww, man. If so, I will dearly miss the ability to kick a supermutant’s face off with a hand-to-hand specialised character.
05/08/2008 at 22:50 danarchist says:
I am truely hoping the comedy you mentioned is similar to what I remember from the first two games. I recently played the super long named Penny Arcade game, and discovered laughing my ass off can make ANY game worth replaying.
And as for the grammar nazi’s out there. I shall now refer to you as “The Cult Of Clippy” and will hunt you down jay and silent bob style. Sleep lightly.
;)
05/08/2008 at 22:58 Alex says:
Who’s Clippy? Is that like Chippy? Where’s my Chippy..
05/08/2008 at 23:01 Briosafreak says:
Emil Pagliarulo once posted this:
He’s a better source than me, so here it is.
05/08/2008 at 23:21 Dr_demento says:
It sounds like they’ve fixed the combat since Oblivion – seriously, people, that combat was some of the weakest I’ve ever seen – now I just have to hope they fix the one-voice-per-race irritation. Otherwise the realism really isn’t going to happen.
05/08/2008 at 23:21 Erlam says:
Does it still have the melting-face people from Oblivion? My friend thought his video card had died when he played Oblivion, hahaha…
05/08/2008 at 23:32 Briosafreak says:
@Erlam:
Yes and no.
05/08/2008 at 23:56 Mike says:
So, does VATS ‘pause’ the action while you go through the routines of firing? Because I’ve seen some videos of, say, grenade tossing, and I’m a man who likes to strafe around a lot, because standing still tends to make me catch my death of death. Especially when you’re against moving targets, I don’t understand how VATS is expected to work, let alone be chosen as an option.
05/08/2008 at 23:58 John Walker says:
VATS does melee, yes. I watched someone repeatedly use it for baseball bat attacks to enormous amounts of amusement. Heads coming clean off, etc.
I’m keeping my mouth shut on stuff cos I was covering for elsewhere. But VATS has specific uses that are more particular, and far more interesting than simply being a more accurate means of getting a head shot. You can use it very tactically.
06/08/2008 at 00:21 danarchist says:
Clippy is the little “helper” guy in microsoft office. He may actually be the anti christ
06/08/2008 at 00:38 John Walker says:
Clippy hasn’t been in Office for about a decade!
Now it’s stupid cartoon animals bothering you until you can find the giant bat shaped button to bludgeon them to death with.
06/08/2008 at 01:01 rehashbodash says:
Please write more about details concerning inventory, stats and other animals. Rabid rabbits?
06/08/2008 at 01:31 Charlie says:
Imagine being the guy who created Clippy. He must feel awful for what he unleashed upon the world. Everyone knows Clippy and everyone hates him!
06/08/2008 at 01:33 sbs says:
I’m still optimistic about this game and I just hope that they have chosen the worst way possible to show off the game at E3 and the likes. The previews I have read seem to be confirming my theory, so i feel no need to fall into despair just yet.
Also, after reading this thread I feel a strong urge to play some more Vampire: The Masquarade – Bloodlines, which I picked up a few weeks ago from the bargain bin; I still have to finish this one.
06/08/2008 at 01:49 Caiman says:
I knew someone who thought Clippy was cute the first time I helped her install Microsoft Office, and asked me to leave it in. I got an exasperated phone call about a week later asking how the hell to get rid of it.
06/08/2008 at 03:45 Willy359 says:
Ah, Bloodlines.
“Police are investigating. They know it was you.”
Brilliant.
06/08/2008 at 07:28 DM says:
Well, I’m optimistic as to the outcome of this game. Let the record show however, that if Bethesda fail me, my wrath shall be comparable to the pure destructive potential of a heavily armed chariot made entirely of flaming shards of bloodied glass.
Or more likely (If less dramatic), I’ll be really, really annoyed.
06/08/2008 at 07:29 James says:
Sounds like it will be my sort of thing, but I’ve expected that for a long while now. I’ve never been much of a Lineage Botherer either, though, so I’m probably not as likely to get worrisome about the whole thing.
On the other hand, this knowledge tortures me like crazy, considering that living in Australia means there’s no Fallout 3 for me. If anyone wants me I’ll be sobbing in the corner.
06/08/2008 at 07:35 DM says:
I was under the impression that a modestly censored version of Fallout 3 was fairly near confirmed for Australia?
06/08/2008 at 07:44 James says:
Hah, seems like they have. Just when I’d stopped watching the news on it, too. Thanks for the heads up!
06/08/2008 at 10:43 Joe says:
Huh. During my go at it I went straight north to Bethesda’s DC offices and was soundly HP-raped by a load of flame-thrower wielding bandits. Never even saw a mole rat or fire ant.
?
06/08/2008 at 11:52 MKultra says:
RPG’s should have “boring” and uninspiring enemies at the begining, imo. That is something that always drives me, to see the more interesting enemies further on. It’s like that for a good reason imo. Bethesda might not be that good in making good “actors” but they just crush the competition in everything else, interactivity, number of items, NPC AI (Bioware’s AI’s are laughable and comparable, even to this date, to Pac-Man). Exploring is always fun in their games, their games doesnt feel totally linear as Bioware games (Mass Effect, KOTOR etc) do. I love their attention to detail, day/night cycles etc. Really looking forward to this, almost as much as STALKER Clear Sky.
06/08/2008 at 12:35 Diogo Ribeiro says:
There should be an RPG where a rat asks you to remove humans from its basement.
06/08/2008 at 12:51 Tarn says:
I’d still say Vampire is the high watermark for RPG dialogue delivery/acting. Although Mass Effect has the most realistic looking human faces, the actual animation is pretty feeble – the emotional range simply doesn’t match that of the voice acting. Everyone always looks too calm, there’s no extremes.
Vampire, on the other hand, had genuine moments of extreme emotion, even if it was just Jack’s fits of raucous laughter.
As others have said, though, its Vampire’s writing that makes it. Same with Valve’s stuff in HL2 and sequels. The difference is that there’s almost always a subtext in Troika and Valve’s writing, whereas Bioware’s stuff only tends to operate on a simple (albeit entertaining) surface level.
06/08/2008 at 12:56 Albides says:
Diogo,
There was a similar (as in subverting the rat-killing tradition) kind of joke in Oblivion. In Morrowind, one of the earliest fighter’s guild quests is to remove rats from the house of a local called Drarayne Thelas. In Oblivion, a fighter’s guild quest kicks off in the same way, and you turn up the house of an Arvena Thelas only to find the rats you thought you were there to kill are actually her pets whom you have to protect.
Can’t say I’ve ever really minded the inevitable rats-of-unusual-size. They get forgotten soon, quickly replaced by more interesting baddies. Personally I’ve always hated giant spiders, though, as if they’re in one section you know you’ll be seeing them in droves, and they have poison attacks, antidote potions being typically rare and you never bother to buy some anyway, making it all very, very frustrating.
06/08/2008 at 14:38 Diogo Ribeiro says:
I remember the one from Morrowind, Oblivion’s not quite so well, in part because I haven’t messed too much around the game. Seems it lost momentum a bit after several hours of exploring. Might give it a go again if I can muster the courage to see my graphics card and low memory compulsively cry at the requirements.
06/08/2008 at 14:39 Steelfist says:
Could molerats be the new mudcrabs!?!?!
06/08/2008 at 14:46 Diogo Ribeiro says:
Molerats are the new rats. With moles.
06/08/2008 at 14:53 Deadcatt says:
As I asked before, any support for Legacy controls?
06/08/2008 at 15:19 Paul Moloney says:
“Also, after reading this thread I feel a strong urge to play some more Vampire: The Masquarade – Bloodlines, which I picked up a few weeks ago from the bargain bin; I still have to finish this one.”
Yes, go hurry and install it – and don’t forget to install the community patch.
I just finished Mass Effect myself, and while I enjoyed it a lot, the characterisations or dialogue don’t have that spark that VtMB had. And the Source engine seems, to me, to still be the best engine for first-person characterisation.
I suppose it’s being too optimistic to hope for another game in the same world, but then if Beyond Good and Evil is getting one, there’s still hope.
P.
06/08/2008 at 15:23 Diogo Ribeiro says:
@Paul Moloney:
If you’re talking about another game in the Vampire: Bloodlines world it’s not likely to happen, as it was based off the Pen and Paper license, which now has a new setting – Requiem. Any future games bearing that license should use that setting as well. Plus, Troika won’t be developing it, which may be a good or bad thing depending on your perspective and tolerance for technical issues.
06/08/2008 at 15:34 Paul Moloney says:
Oh, I’m no “Vampire” geek, so I’m not hung up on whether it’s “Bloodlines”, “Requiem” or whatever.
What was Troika’s problem? A chronic lack of a QA department? Good designers but poor coders? I suppose it can’t have helped much that they were working with what was a beta release of the Source engine.
P.
06/08/2008 at 15:51 Diogo Ribeiro says:
@Paul:
Not a geek either, just thought I’d point it out in case you were explicitly in wont of a Bloodlines, rather than Vampire, setting :)
As for Troika, I believe favouring ambitious design over good programming and proper Q&A eventually got the best of them.
06/08/2008 at 15:53 The Poisoned Sponge says:
I thought that CCP’s new MMO, World of Darkness, was using the Vampire IP… like, 100% sure… now my faith has been rattled!
06/08/2008 at 16:19 Mataglap says:
So you lead off with a non sequitor about Old Man Murray, and never pay it off? We call that being a tease. And not in a good way.
06/08/2008 at 16:34 hello shot says:
MKultra says:
“RPG’s should have “boring” and uninspiring enemies at the begining, imo. That is something that always drives me, to see the more interesting enemies further on.”
Why not just change to another game that has interesting enemies? Why suffer through boredom and work for your fun when you have fun on tap simply from swapping a disc? You already “earned” that fun when you raised the cash to buy the game at your job.
I’m still wanting to know about those lesbian bubble-blowing dragons…
06/08/2008 at 16:35 Taxman says:
Did you get to see the supposed top down view mode ?
I was under the impression that had been pulled from the game given the lack of info but one of the recent previews seemed to mention it again.
This is the one thing I dislike the most about first person view points, in the old RPG games of yore you could see everything & where you wanted to go. But in first person you will have to traipse around the back of buildings through corridors only to see nothing is there. That’s why I could never get into the kind of RPG’s Bethesda make, I just find their exploration aspect a chore.
06/08/2008 at 16:40 Diogo Ribeiro says:
@Taxman:
The same happened with Fallout’s isometric (I assume this is what you mean by “top down view mode” but as they say, assuming might make an ass out of me) view – alleyways and back of buildings were only made visible if you went there yourself, with a portion of the obstructing wall phasing out to let players see what was there.
06/08/2008 at 16:52 ape says:
Even if I am an avowed Bethesda hater, I still am eager to try this. Also, I really don’t get they whole “It has to be dark and serious” thing I have seen some talk of. Fallout was quite silly as I recall and I am glad they are retaining some of that tongue in cheek attitude.
06/08/2008 at 17:06 Diogo Ribeiro says:
@ape:
I think that stems from a genuine concern with priorities. The humor in Fallout was often incidental, as opposed to bluntly intentional in its sequel – which some people disliked, me included. It’s not so much a distaste for the funnier side of thermonuclear genocide, but wanting that the humourous bits don’t detract from the darker aspects which were handled in the games – decadence, breaking down of law enforcement and power structures, cannibalism, and so on.
06/08/2008 at 18:11 Ojive says:
“Sounds like Bethsda are going to turn this into another Oblivion grindfest. I can’t wait to stab rats for two hours before I can learn how to use a gun, no sir-ee!”
I hate to take any sides in this debate, but in Fallout 2, my ranged combat character had to run around with a spear for the first three or so hours because I was unable to afford/kill for a gun.
“I thought that CCP’s new MMO, World of Darkness, was using the Vampire IP… like, 100% sure… now my faith has been rattled!”
The pen-and -paper vampire game (Requiem, that is) is part of a larger series, World of Darkness, which also has Changeling, Werewolf, soon Hunter, and (I kid you not) Promethean. I’ve never heard of a WoD MMO before, though.
06/08/2008 at 18:28 matte_k says:
Yes, CCP are working with White Wolf on a WoD MMO, not sure how long before it’s out though-quite a while, I’d guess.
06/08/2008 at 20:13 kadayi says:
@Diogo Ribeiro
I think one of the big problems for VTM:B was that Activision in their (facepalm) infinite wisdom decided to release the game the very same day as HL2 came out and spent next to nothing on advertising it. If they’d waited a month they could of cashed in on a lot more sales, esp if they’d pitched it as using the ‘HL2 Source engine’. Despite reasonable reviews, the game didn’t sell well in it’s first month (because everyone was too engrossed in HL2 and CS:S) and that pretty much was the nail in the coffin for Troika (*shakes fist at Activision suits).
06/08/2008 at 20:17 Diogo Ribeiro says:
@kadayi:
True, Activision also had a hand in it. Troika were never really fortunate in their dealings with publishers.
06/08/2008 at 21:04 Funky Badger says:
Off topic: WoD-meister (and Fading Suns) General Bill Bridges now works for the dudes who wrote EVE on their, erm, upcoming WoD MMORPG (is that acronym right?)
07/08/2008 at 01:00 moonracer says:
It will probably be a while after release before I decide whether to buy this game or not. As someone who played and enjoyed Oblivion I feel modding tools (or a lack of) for the PC will make or break this game for me. Not just for added content, but to eliminate things like hand holding pop-up messages and fan made patches.
07/08/2008 at 22:54 malkav11 says:
Human(ish) enemies have always tended to be my favorites to kill in most games. They simply have a wider range of reactions, tactics, loot, and are more viscerally satisfying to make dead. HL2′s repeated reliance on the extremely one-note headcrab zombies over the bits where I get to pitch Combine corpses off ledges or trigger that lovely bit of com chatter as I end the life of a Combine metro cop always kinda annoyed me.
Rats, on the other hand? Bleh.
08/08/2008 at 03:43 dave says:
yeah,there is a reason why one cannot buy or use the product in aussieland,take comfort in some other form of entertainment,perhaps that your friends and fellow citzens
arnt twisted mediaphiles that rest on little details like beheadings and drug use.go play tennis or somthing haha.
all i mean to say is maybe your population shouldnt be mimicing the west too closely on our freedoms of choice of consumtion.it truly retards us,and thats why you whoop us @ tennis and such.
08/08/2008 at 11:13 Moyles says:
Well I have to admit i’ve been reading Fallout fansites etc for days now reading the back and forth and felt i had to comment on some of the aspects.
Firstly (and i know i’ll probably get slated for this) i’m replaying Fallout 2 again now (being someone who always states it as one of my favourite games of all time) and to be honest, it’s not that great *ducks*. Granted i love the setting, the feeling, the writing and the humor but technically it leaves a lot to be desired.
The turn based system for example, whilst great in the later stages can lead to some EXTREMELY boring and drawn out fights especially in the early stages. For those people slating VATS in Fallout 3, personally i think the chance to have combat that flows a little better will be awesome – i think it will all depend on how APs are calculated and how quickly, once you resume live combat, they take to regenerate.
Concerns over ‘dull’ starting enemies – I’ve found the first few hours of playing Fallout 2 a continual process of getting my arse handed to me utterly by boring rats, lizards and bugs and having to reload. Even once i had a couple of basic guns the difficulty is still way up there – i mean, just trying to travel from A to B is a game of chance. Possibilty to defeat a group of highwaymen or robbers? Nil. Granted this may be realistic, and i love the premise of having area’s which are just madness to enter at low levels, giving you something to look forward to coming back to, but at times Fallout took this to extremes, and i think perhaps rose-tinted glasses mean some don’t remember how frustrating Fallout 2 was at the start.
Concerns over ‘wooden’ animation – Come on now….on the one hand i’ve read hundreds of posts (not necessarily here) by raving fanboys basically STILL after all these years wanting Van Buren. With one breath people claim that the only possible great outcome of Bethesda developing Fallout would be almost an identical recreation of Fallout 1/2 and with the next slate Fallout 3′s animation. *news flash* Fallout 1/2′s animation was fairly shocking especially given the hex based movement leading to zig-zag running.
I for one CAN’T WAIT for a modern, pumped up, slick, powerful reworking of the classic Fallout setting as long as it captures the SPIRIT of the first two games – in my opinion that’s all that counts.
Moyles
08/08/2008 at 17:23 mactbone says:
I guess what I don’t understand is the argument that because the combat in Fallout 1 and 2 wasn’t perfect that it therefore follows that Bethesda’s take is entirely appropriate and the obvious best one.
I hope you’re right about the spirit but I’m not holding my breath. I’ve read enough interviews to see that most of those involved are interested in their own views of what makes the game great (which I don’t begrudge, but don’t pretend it’s all in service of the old games) and what will attract the largest obvious (which I can begrudge because I think it’s more important to make things that are good and popularity will follow). It seems like so many of their decisions are based on what they would like to see and whether it makes sense or not doesn’t even enter into it – fatman, drinking from toilets, nuclear barrels.. uh ‘cars’, and a transplanted setting that manages to use everything recognizable from the first two games (Enclave and BoS the most obvious) when it would have been a hell of a lot easier to just use their own creations to fill those roles.
10/08/2008 at 17:25 sam says:
description boxes for objects you can obviously now see in great detail thanks to a significantly more advanced engine = stupid idea. Yeah, I know it was something you liked about the originals, but it’s retarded to think nothing is going to change when we have had almost 10 years of technological advancement since then. Why not also demand grainy 640.480 2D graphics…. Oh wait the NMA tards do that too don’t they? Idiots.
21/08/2008 at 00:25 Ambient.Impact says:
@sam
That makes no sense. Most of them were not just descriptions. They were commentary. And most of it was hilarious commentary. They do the same thing in Penny Arcade Adventures, to great effect. You can clearly see every detail in that game, so it’s got absolutely nothing to do with that. kthnxbai