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	<title>Comments on: The Secret World&#8217;s Secret Screenshots</title>
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		<title>By: harrumph</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-169867</link>
		<dc:creator>harrumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-169867</guid>
		<description>Two titles from the same developer are not necessarily developed by the same people. Tørnquist, for one, had nothing (as far as I know) to do with AoC, and I believe most of the devs working on The Secret World come, like him, from The Longest Journey and Dreamfall.

Wikipedia says &quot;The pre-production of the game started in 2002, but in mid-2003, most of the working team was transferred to the development of Dreamfall. The work on The Secret World was resumed after Dreamfall shipped, with many of the latter&#039;s designers (including Ragnar Tørnquist) playing key roles in the former&#039;s development. TSW is being produced at the Funcom studios in Oslo and Beijing. In August 2008, it was stated that the development team consisted of people previously involved in the development of Dreamfall, Anarchy Online, Age of Conan, EverQuest II, and The Longest Journey. In November Funcom stated that 70 people were working on the project.&quot;

So yeah, people from AoC (and AO) are working on it, but it sounds like the core of the team is from Dreamfall. Might be that you should worry more about horrible combat and lame puzzles (I liked Dreamfall a lot, for what it&#039;s worth) than crashes, cookie-cutter MMO design, or incomplete content. Without a D&amp;D/WoW-style class/level system, I don&#039;t think you&#039;ll have to worry about rushing through a grind or wanting for endgame content, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two titles from the same developer are not necessarily developed by the same people. Tørnquist, for one, had nothing (as far as I know) to do with AoC, and I believe most of the devs working on The Secret World come, like him, from The Longest Journey and Dreamfall.</p>
<p>Wikipedia says &#8220;The pre-production of the game started in 2002, but in mid-2003, most of the working team was transferred to the development of Dreamfall. The work on The Secret World was resumed after Dreamfall shipped, with many of the latter&#8217;s designers (including Ragnar Tørnquist) playing key roles in the former&#8217;s development. TSW is being produced at the Funcom studios in Oslo and Beijing. In August 2008, it was stated that the development team consisted of people previously involved in the development of Dreamfall, Anarchy Online, Age of Conan, EverQuest II, and The Longest Journey. In November Funcom stated that 70 people were working on the project.&#8221;</p>
<p>So yeah, people from AoC (and AO) are working on it, but it sounds like the core of the team is from Dreamfall. Might be that you should worry more about horrible combat and lame puzzles (I liked Dreamfall a lot, for what it&#8217;s worth) than crashes, cookie-cutter MMO design, or incomplete content. Without a D&amp;D/WoW-style class/level system, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll have to worry about rushing through a grind or wanting for endgame content, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Seb Potter</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79400</link>
		<dc:creator>Seb Potter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79400</guid>
		<description>&quot;realise (sic)&quot;? @noc - if you&#039;re American you&#039;re excused, but not forgiven. I&#039;m also sure that I&#039;ve been excited without the aid of hype (excessive or misleading publicity or advertising) before, but maybe it&#039;s just an undiagnosed medical condition?

I think however that my difference of opinion about FunCom&#039;s track record comes down to the fact that my first job in the games industry was, by strange coincidence, working with Valve and Blizzard, so my expectation of release quality could be somewhat skewed!

Anyway, to those complete strangers who have clearly taken great offence at me pouring bile on FunCom, I apologise for not taking the &quot;glass half-full&quot; view. In the case of AoC, my glass is empty, and I&#039;m annoyed that I paid for a full one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;realise (sic)&#8221;? @noc &#8211; if you&#8217;re American you&#8217;re excused, but not forgiven. I&#8217;m also sure that I&#8217;ve been excited without the aid of hype (excessive or misleading publicity or advertising) before, but maybe it&#8217;s just an undiagnosed medical condition?</p>
<p>I think however that my difference of opinion about FunCom&#8217;s track record comes down to the fact that my first job in the games industry was, by strange coincidence, working with Valve and Blizzard, so my expectation of release quality could be somewhat skewed!</p>
<p>Anyway, to those complete strangers who have clearly taken great offence at me pouring bile on FunCom, I apologise for not taking the &#8220;glass half-full&#8221; view. In the case of AoC, my glass is empty, and I&#8217;m annoyed that I paid for a full one.</p>
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		<title>By: Vexor</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79257</link>
		<dc:creator>Vexor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79257</guid>
		<description>AoC may have a lot of problems but you can&#039;t argue with it&#039;s excellent graphics. This game might end up sucking, but it will look good doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AoC may have a lot of problems but you can&#8217;t argue with it&#8217;s excellent graphics. This game might end up sucking, but it will look good doing it.</p>
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		<title>By: Harlequin</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79239</link>
		<dc:creator>Harlequin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79239</guid>
		<description>I was really interested in this game...then I played Age of Conan.  I&#039;ve called AoC the atrocity of the MMO industry and will continue to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was really interested in this game&#8230;then I played Age of Conan.  I&#8217;ve called AoC the atrocity of the MMO industry and will continue to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Yukkione</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79215</link>
		<dc:creator>Yukkione</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79215</guid>
		<description>I read outright distortions from people like Seb Potter, and I wonder just what game they are playing. AOC is a success it&#039;s sold over a million copy&#039;s and has several hundred thousand subscribers. I have confidence they will make Secret World and excellent game. The rumors of AOCs death have been wildly exaggerated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read outright distortions from people like Seb Potter, and I wonder just what game they are playing. AOC is a success it&#8217;s sold over a million copy&#8217;s and has several hundred thousand subscribers. I have confidence they will make Secret World and excellent game. The rumors of AOCs death have been wildly exaggerated.</p>
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		<title>By: Stromko</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79082</link>
		<dc:creator>Stromko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79082</guid>
		<description>My first read on &#039;Secret World&#039; is it&#039;s Funcom&#039;s stab at a World of Darkness MMO. Q: &quot;But wait, isn&#039;t CCP already doing a World of Darkness MMO?&quot; A: Yes, exactly, someone&#039;s already trying to fill the niche, somebody already decided that a world just like ours except with supernatural critters would build up a lot of hype and can be done well with the tech currently available, so somebody else is trying to cash in on the same damned thing. It&#039;s not a weasely thing to do, really, after all ideas are cheap, implementation is priceless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first read on &#8216;Secret World&#8217; is it&#8217;s Funcom&#8217;s stab at a World of Darkness MMO. Q: &#8220;But wait, isn&#8217;t CCP already doing a World of Darkness MMO?&#8221; A: Yes, exactly, someone&#8217;s already trying to fill the niche, somebody already decided that a world just like ours except with supernatural critters would build up a lot of hype and can be done well with the tech currently available, so somebody else is trying to cash in on the same damned thing. It&#8217;s not a weasely thing to do, really, after all ideas are cheap, implementation is priceless.</p>
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		<title>By: Larington</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79064</link>
		<dc:creator>Larington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79064</guid>
		<description>I was only aware of the secret world from Ragnars blog, its basically being kept under the radar for the moment. http://ragnartornquist.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was only aware of the secret world from Ragnars blog, its basically being kept under the radar for the moment. <a href="http://ragnartornquist.com/" rel="nofollow">http://ragnartornquist.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Esha</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79058</link>
		<dc:creator>Esha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79058</guid>
		<description>So this is what Ragnar&#039;s been up to?  I wonder if it&#039;ll have the usual unspoken but expected quotient of male frontal nudity?  I can only hope, Dreamfall was a huge let-down in that regard.

I&#039;m amazed that I hadn&#039;t heard about this anywhere though, but I suppose I just haven&#039;t been reading RPS long enough yet.  The idea excites me, but as others have said, the screenshots do not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So this is what Ragnar&#8217;s been up to?  I wonder if it&#8217;ll have the usual unspoken but expected quotient of male frontal nudity?  I can only hope, Dreamfall was a huge let-down in that regard.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m amazed that I hadn&#8217;t heard about this anywhere though, but I suppose I just haven&#8217;t been reading RPS long enough yet.  The idea excites me, but as others have said, the screenshots do not.</p>
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		<title>By: Larington</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79036</link>
		<dc:creator>Larington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79036</guid>
		<description>Time will see, the one thing that I&#039;m worried about is that Ragnar might craft this wonderous story full of wonder and intruige, only to have the effort wasted because all the &#039;moar lvls pls&#039; and &#039;endgame content pls&#039; types fall into the habit of pressing the 1 key 5 times to get through the dialogue as quickly as possible because they&#039;ve picked up that god awful XP obsession (Though thats in part because the actual gameplay of most MMOs is fracking tedious and the only thing to keep you going therefor is the levelling and if you&#039;re lucky the community).

Thus far, the only MMO I have any real fondness for is Planetside, because the levelling was secondary to the gameplay, rather than being a primary element. (Oh, and Lord of the Rings Online, for its attempts at story telling and most of all, the artistry that went into the soundtrack/score).

I liked the way AOC has done its combat system, however the fact that they promised full on guild PVP at release and failed to deliver (Not something I personally cared about that much) will inevitably cast them in a negative light in future, though I hope Ragnar (And his reputation as a game designer/writer) will mitigate that at least in part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time will see, the one thing that I&#8217;m worried about is that Ragnar might craft this wonderous story full of wonder and intruige, only to have the effort wasted because all the &#8216;moar lvls pls&#8217; and &#8216;endgame content pls&#8217; types fall into the habit of pressing the 1 key 5 times to get through the dialogue as quickly as possible because they&#8217;ve picked up that god awful XP obsession (Though thats in part because the actual gameplay of most MMOs is fracking tedious and the only thing to keep you going therefor is the levelling and if you&#8217;re lucky the community).</p>
<p>Thus far, the only MMO I have any real fondness for is Planetside, because the levelling was secondary to the gameplay, rather than being a primary element. (Oh, and Lord of the Rings Online, for its attempts at story telling and most of all, the artistry that went into the soundtrack/score).</p>
<p>I liked the way AOC has done its combat system, however the fact that they promised full on guild PVP at release and failed to deliver (Not something I personally cared about that much) will inevitably cast them in a negative light in future, though I hope Ragnar (And his reputation as a game designer/writer) will mitigate that at least in part.</p>
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		<title>By: UncleLou</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79035</link>
		<dc:creator>UncleLou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 08:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79035</guid>
		<description>I must be the only person who quite likes Age of Conan, and still has an active sub.

I am also  not quite sure which games people compare AoC to if they call it a disaster. Certainly not any other MMO that has been released since WoW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must be the only person who quite likes Age of Conan, and still has an active sub.</p>
<p>I am also  not quite sure which games people compare AoC to if they call it a disaster. Certainly not any other MMO that has been released since WoW.</p>
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		<title>By: Stupoider</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-79006</link>
		<dc:creator>Stupoider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-79006</guid>
		<description>This has tickled by interest. I&#039;ll be keeping my eye on this game, hopefully Funcom will have learnt a few lessons from Age of Conan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has tickled by interest. I&#8217;ll be keeping my eye on this game, hopefully Funcom will have learnt a few lessons from Age of Conan.</p>
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		<title>By: Noc</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/17/the-secret-worlds-secret-screenshots/comment-page-1/#comment-78994</link>
		<dc:creator>Noc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2325#comment-78994</guid>
		<description>I think the issue is that a &quot;disaster&quot; implies, well, an event with lasting repercussions resulting in the ruination of everything involved.  Tabula Rasa could be considered something of a disaster, albeit a subdued one that happened in slow-motion: after a few months, there&#039;s a good chance it won&#039;t even be around any more.  &quot;Disaster&quot; implies scale; it implies ruination.  

Some money ill-spent, and times had that weren&#039;t really fun, doesn&#039;t amount to ruination.  

Also, you don&#039;t get &quot;genuinely excited&quot; about something &quot;without the hype.&quot;  Here&#039;s how things work: 1) You hear things about a game, and 2) you build an expectation of what the game is going to be like, and 3) you decide if you&#039;ll like it or not.  Step #1 there is what &quot;hype&quot; &lt;i&gt;is.&lt;/i&gt;  

The game was overhyped, and unfinished upon release.  I&#039;ve been following it for a while, and I&#039;m pretty sure that the latter happened because they had to redesign their &lt;i&gt;entire combat system&lt;/i&gt; in the late stages of development, because all of their good ideas turned out to be just &lt;i&gt;too different&lt;/i&gt; from what everyone was expecting in the Post-WoW age of Fantasy MMOs.

But in the real world, with real money and people who need real salaries, you can&#039;t just say &quot;Okay, lets put this game off another year.&quot;  Delays happen, all the time, but each time you do it you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.

If the people at Funcom were the cackling, malicious band of scammers you&#039;re painting them as, then they wouldn&#039;t keep spending money and employing people to keep trying to fix and tweak the game even after they&#039;ve netted their customers and their money.  If anything, that shows a tremendous amount of goodwill: they&#039;re saying &quot;I know you paid for something that wasn&#039;t all it could be, &lt;i&gt;so we&#039;re going to try and turn it into what you were expecting.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;  The problem is, game development actually &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; happen in the real world, so companies just have to, you know, do the best they can.  There are realities companies need to live with, and they tend to involve money, and unless you&#039;re Valve or Blizzard &quot;Until we&#039;re happy with it&quot;-long development cycles really aren&#039;t an option.  

Also: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;...(sign up with your credit card for the free month and forget to cancel when you realise(sic) what you’re buying is a steaming pile)...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, I know it &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/08/online-predators/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;happens, &lt;/a&gt; but do you think they really built a business model of people forgetting to unsubscribe after &lt;i&gt;quitting the game in disgust?&lt;/i&gt;  That&#039;s a little silly.

Now, I&#039;m sympathetic to the feelings of bitterness when you feel like you&#039;ve been the victim of a game company&#039;s bait-and-switch.  Hell, I bought an X-Box for FABLE, because I heard it was going to be a really deep open-world game where every choice you make has actual consequences!  Instead of a couple hours of 3rd Person Hack-and-Slashy punctuated by striking poses in front of swooning ladies.  And I can go on for &lt;i&gt;hours&lt;/i&gt; about how much utter crap Oblivion turned out to be.  

But in cases like these, you need to mitigate your ire with a little bit of salt.  Maybe a pinch, if a grain is too little.  As pointed out above, Funcom DOES have a track record of trying to produce the best game they can given the realities of the business they run, and the financial success of AoC will likely allow them to do just that.  Contrast to Tabula Rasa, which I mentioned before, which won&#039;t get a gradual overhaul and is apparently in the long slow process of petering out.  Or Hellgate:London, which collapsed and took it&#039;s studio with it, including embryonic game Mythic which might have turned out to be pretty good.  

Those are disasters.  AoC is the result of a bunch of people trying desperately to avoid one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the issue is that a &#8220;disaster&#8221; implies, well, an event with lasting repercussions resulting in the ruination of everything involved.  Tabula Rasa could be considered something of a disaster, albeit a subdued one that happened in slow-motion: after a few months, there&#8217;s a good chance it won&#8217;t even be around any more.  &#8220;Disaster&#8221; implies scale; it implies ruination.  </p>
<p>Some money ill-spent, and times had that weren&#8217;t really fun, doesn&#8217;t amount to ruination.  </p>
<p>Also, you don&#8217;t get &#8220;genuinely excited&#8221; about something &#8220;without the hype.&#8221;  Here&#8217;s how things work: 1) You hear things about a game, and 2) you build an expectation of what the game is going to be like, and 3) you decide if you&#8217;ll like it or not.  Step #1 there is what &#8220;hype&#8221; <i>is.</i>  </p>
<p>The game was overhyped, and unfinished upon release.  I&#8217;ve been following it for a while, and I&#8217;m pretty sure that the latter happened because they had to redesign their <i>entire combat system</i> in the late stages of development, because all of their good ideas turned out to be just <i>too different</i> from what everyone was expecting in the Post-WoW age of Fantasy MMOs.</p>
<p>But in the real world, with real money and people who need real salaries, you can&#8217;t just say &#8220;Okay, lets put this game off another year.&#8221;  Delays happen, all the time, but each time you do it you dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.</p>
<p>If the people at Funcom were the cackling, malicious band of scammers you&#8217;re painting them as, then they wouldn&#8217;t keep spending money and employing people to keep trying to fix and tweak the game even after they&#8217;ve netted their customers and their money.  If anything, that shows a tremendous amount of goodwill: they&#8217;re saying &#8220;I know you paid for something that wasn&#8217;t all it could be, <i>so we&#8217;re going to try and turn it into what you were expecting.</i>&#8221;  The problem is, game development actually <i>does</i> happen in the real world, so companies just have to, you know, do the best they can.  There are realities companies need to live with, and they tend to involve money, and unless you&#8217;re Valve or Blizzard &#8220;Until we&#8217;re happy with it&#8221;-long development cycles really aren&#8217;t an option.  </p>
<p>Also: </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;(sign up with your credit card for the free month and forget to cancel when you realise(sic) what you’re buying is a steaming pile)&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I know it <a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/01/08/online-predators/" rel="nofollow">happens, </a> but do you think they really built a business model of people forgetting to unsubscribe after <i>quitting the game in disgust?</i>  That&#8217;s a little silly.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m sympathetic to the feelings of bitterness when you feel like you&#8217;ve been the victim of a game company&#8217;s bait-and-switch.  Hell, I bought an X-Box for FABLE, because I heard it was going to be a really deep open-world game where every choice you make has actual consequences!  Instead of a couple hours of 3rd Person Hack-and-Slashy punctuated by striking poses in front of swooning ladies.  And I can go on for <i>hours</i> about how much utter crap Oblivion turned out to be.  </p>
<p>But in cases like these, you need to mitigate your ire with a little bit of salt.  Maybe a pinch, if a grain is too little.  As pointed out above, Funcom DOES have a track record of trying to produce the best game they can given the realities of the business they run, and the financial success of AoC will likely allow them to do just that.  Contrast to Tabula Rasa, which I mentioned before, which won&#8217;t get a gradual overhaul and is apparently in the long slow process of petering out.  Or Hellgate:London, which collapsed and took it&#8217;s studio with it, including embryonic game Mythic which might have turned out to be pretty good.  </p>
<p>Those are disasters.  AoC is the result of a bunch of people trying desperately to avoid one.</p>
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