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	<title>Comments on: Drakensang Demo: Ich Bin Stumped</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/</link>
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		<title>By: twobells</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-134856</link>
		<dc:creator>twobells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-134856</guid>
		<description>&#039;Generic fantasy setting&#039;, please.
If the OP had done his homework he&#039;d have realized that this game universe is one of the great-granddaddies of the genre, what FOLLOWED is generic.
His comment was like suggesting that Tolkien&#039;s Middle Earth  is a &#039;generic fantasy setting&#039;.
There is nothing generic about &#039;Das Schwarze Auge&#039; it is a fully-realized world originally conceived in 1984.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Eye</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Generic fantasy setting&#8217;, please.<br />
If the OP had done his homework he&#8217;d have realized that this game universe is one of the great-granddaddies of the genre, what FOLLOWED is generic.<br />
His comment was like suggesting that Tolkien&#8217;s Middle Earth  is a &#8216;generic fantasy setting&#8217;.<br />
There is nothing generic about &#8216;Das Schwarze Auge&#8217; it is a fully-realized world originally conceived in 1984.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Eye" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Eye</a></p>
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		<title>By: Winterborn</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-81750</link>
		<dc:creator>Winterborn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-81750</guid>
		<description>China Mieville is really not generic and first rate. Plus props to Gene Wolfe. Probably the only two fantasy authors who spring to mind when I think of which should be allowed into the big authors tent and which should be put in the &#039;under 14&#039; pile.

For individual books, Scar &amp; The Book of the New Sun respectively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China Mieville is really not generic and first rate. Plus props to Gene Wolfe. Probably the only two fantasy authors who spring to mind when I think of which should be allowed into the big authors tent and which should be put in the &#8216;under 14&#8242; pile.</p>
<p>For individual books, Scar &amp; The Book of the New Sun respectively.</p>
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		<title>By: Alarik</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79857</link>
		<dc:creator>Alarik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79857</guid>
		<description>Gene Wolfe is basically compulsory reading for any serious fantasy reader anyway.

I didn&#039;t like Perdido so much, but it is mostly required reading to learn more about the world in following novels. But Scar is utter brilliance. And of course (in my opinion) for thing to be brilliant, it has to be somehow flawed at the same time. Which Scar is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gene Wolfe is basically compulsory reading for any serious fantasy reader anyway.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t like Perdido so much, but it is mostly required reading to learn more about the world in following novels. But Scar is utter brilliance. And of course (in my opinion) for thing to be brilliant, it has to be somehow flawed at the same time. Which Scar is.</p>
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		<title>By: Albides</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79758</link>
		<dc:creator>Albides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79758</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Brog&lt;/b&gt;,

Yeah, I haven&#039;t actually read Perdido St Station, but it comes highly recommended, even if I might be tempted to agree with you about its writer. At least from what I&#039;ve seen. His face is eminently punchable, his prose has terribly pathetic romance stylings, and some of his comments are stupidly provocative. But still, he&#039;s highly acclaimed, so he can&#039;t be all bad. M John Harrison is one of my favourite authors and even I wouldn&#039;t agree with China&#039;s declaration &quot;&lt;i&gt;That M. John Harrison is not a Nobel Laureate proves the bankruptcy of the literary establishment&lt;/i&gt;&quot;.

Still, M John Harrison&#039;s Viriconium is another excellent &quot;alternative&quot; fantasy setting, and a book that seeks to subvert the fantasy tropes and, eventually, itself. It&#039;s not for everyone, and some might see the knowing post-modern tinkering and the bombastic prose as pretentious. Also, Gene Wolfe&#039;s Shadow of the Torturer is an absolutely brilliant, gradual mindfuck. Those two books are both part of the dying earth subgenre, which somewhat straddles the line between fantasy and sci-fi, though. Which reminds me Jack Vance&#039;s picaresque tales in Tales of a Dying Earth paints an interesting picture of a world where civilisation has fallen into ruin, leaving it a sort of glittering, decadent mess. Not generic, despite having a hell of a lot of wizards in it, and even having inspired the magic system of D&amp;D.

I think that kind of shows that there&#039;s a huge variety of interesting fantasy mindscapes out there. 

&lt;b&gt;onkellou&lt;/b&gt;,

Morrowind&#039;s a great setting that doesn&#039;t feel generic! I&#039;m a huge fan and I&#039;m hitting myself for not thinking of it. Arcanum I thought of but didn&#039;t mention, because steampunk, though not generic, is hella derivative, as any subgenre based around an aesthetic would be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Brog</b>,</p>
<p>Yeah, I haven&#8217;t actually read Perdido St Station, but it comes highly recommended, even if I might be tempted to agree with you about its writer. At least from what I&#8217;ve seen. His face is eminently punchable, his prose has terribly pathetic romance stylings, and some of his comments are stupidly provocative. But still, he&#8217;s highly acclaimed, so he can&#8217;t be all bad. M John Harrison is one of my favourite authors and even I wouldn&#8217;t agree with China&#8217;s declaration &#8220;<i>That M. John Harrison is not a Nobel Laureate proves the bankruptcy of the literary establishment</i>&#8220;.</p>
<p>Still, M John Harrison&#8217;s Viriconium is another excellent &#8220;alternative&#8221; fantasy setting, and a book that seeks to subvert the fantasy tropes and, eventually, itself. It&#8217;s not for everyone, and some might see the knowing post-modern tinkering and the bombastic prose as pretentious. Also, Gene Wolfe&#8217;s Shadow of the Torturer is an absolutely brilliant, gradual mindfuck. Those two books are both part of the dying earth subgenre, which somewhat straddles the line between fantasy and sci-fi, though. Which reminds me Jack Vance&#8217;s picaresque tales in Tales of a Dying Earth paints an interesting picture of a world where civilisation has fallen into ruin, leaving it a sort of glittering, decadent mess. Not generic, despite having a hell of a lot of wizards in it, and even having inspired the magic system of D&amp;D.</p>
<p>I think that kind of shows that there&#8217;s a huge variety of interesting fantasy mindscapes out there. </p>
<p><b>onkellou</b>,</p>
<p>Morrowind&#8217;s a great setting that doesn&#8217;t feel generic! I&#8217;m a huge fan and I&#8217;m hitting myself for not thinking of it. Arcanum I thought of but didn&#8217;t mention, because steampunk, though not generic, is hella derivative, as any subgenre based around an aesthetic would be.</p>
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		<title>By: onkellou</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79600</link>
		<dc:creator>onkellou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79600</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Maybe at least give the game the benefit of the doubt before condemning how generic it is.&lt;/i&gt;

Don&#039;t know if you are referring to me, but I have played Drakensang.

For what it&#039;s worth, I am judging the game on its own - I don&#039;t really care about its p&amp;p roots. Like I said, there might have gone a lot of detail in the worldbuilding, but that&#039;s not really relevant here for me.

Of course The Witcher, or the Gothic series, are not terribly original as well, but they managed to convey more of a unique atmosphere  than Drakensang does  for me - with both of them feeling more like a &quot;real&quot; fantasy/medieval European than the Forgotten Realms Disneyland version.

Planescape was already mentioned (yeah, I know it&#039;s also D&amp;D) for being really quite different, and I&#039;d also mention Arcanum (even if the Steampunk setting isn&#039;t that rare anymore, either) or even Morrowind, which at least had some unique architecture and landscapes (a real step back in Oblivion, which only showed some originality in the Shivering Isles expansion).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Maybe at least give the game the benefit of the doubt before condemning how generic it is.</i></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know if you are referring to me, but I have played Drakensang.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I am judging the game on its own &#8211; I don&#8217;t really care about its p&amp;p roots. Like I said, there might have gone a lot of detail in the worldbuilding, but that&#8217;s not really relevant here for me.</p>
<p>Of course The Witcher, or the Gothic series, are not terribly original as well, but they managed to convey more of a unique atmosphere  than Drakensang does  for me &#8211; with both of them feeling more like a &#8220;real&#8221; fantasy/medieval European than the Forgotten Realms Disneyland version.</p>
<p>Planescape was already mentioned (yeah, I know it&#8217;s also D&amp;D) for being really quite different, and I&#8217;d also mention Arcanum (even if the Steampunk setting isn&#8217;t that rare anymore, either) or even Morrowind, which at least had some unique architecture and landscapes (a real step back in Oblivion, which only showed some originality in the Shivering Isles expansion).</p>
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		<title>By: Kieron Gillen</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79557</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieron Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79557</guid>
		<description>Brog: I wouldn&#039;t hold it against him. Like most revolutionaries, he&#039;s proper-furious and thinks too much.

KG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brog: I wouldn&#8217;t hold it against him. Like most revolutionaries, he&#8217;s proper-furious and thinks too much.</p>
<p>KG</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79555</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79555</guid>
		<description>Regarding unusual fantasy worlds, though it&#039;s not a RPG, Sacrifice comes to mind as a great variation on fantasy. There&#039;s also some console titles (Shin Megami Tensei, The World Ends With You) that create very original worlds by merging modern urban environments with unusual fantasy but I guess that may be outside the scope of RPS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding unusual fantasy worlds, though it&#8217;s not a RPG, Sacrifice comes to mind as a great variation on fantasy. There&#8217;s also some console titles (Shin Megami Tensei, The World Ends With You) that create very original worlds by merging modern urban environments with unusual fantasy but I guess that may be outside the scope of RPS.</p>
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		<title>By: brog</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79551</link>
		<dc:creator>brog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79551</guid>
		<description>Albides: Ricardo Pinto&#039;s book is an excellent read.  China Mieville however.. I haven&#039;t read any of his books, but he wrote the introduction to one edition of Wells&#039; First Men In The Moon, and it&#039;s.. pretentious, to say the least.  I quote: &quot;For modern science fiction to locate its wonder in the &#039;vastness of space&#039; or some other overdetermined pornography of the infinite would be at best gauche.&quot;  And so on.  And apparently Lovecraft was an idiot savant.  I think I do not want to read anything more by him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Albides: Ricardo Pinto&#8217;s book is an excellent read.  China Mieville however.. I haven&#8217;t read any of his books, but he wrote the introduction to one edition of Wells&#8217; First Men In The Moon, and it&#8217;s.. pretentious, to say the least.  I quote: &#8220;For modern science fiction to locate its wonder in the &#8216;vastness of space&#8217; or some other overdetermined pornography of the infinite would be at best gauche.&#8221;  And so on.  And apparently Lovecraft was an idiot savant.  I think I do not want to read anything more by him.</p>
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		<title>By: Diogo Ribeiro</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79510</link>
		<dc:creator>Diogo Ribeiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79510</guid>
		<description>I love you, Jim - in a manly way, of course - but I find it disenchanting that nowadays, something like invisible walls would be treated by the RPS hivemind (or anyone else, for that matter) as a &quot;minor defect&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love you, Jim &#8211; in a manly way, of course &#8211; but I find it disenchanting that nowadays, something like invisible walls would be treated by the RPS hivemind (or anyone else, for that matter) as a &#8220;minor defect&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: ulix</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-2/#comment-79506</link>
		<dc:creator>ulix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79506</guid>
		<description>To answer to Okami&#039;s point of having every imaginable climate zone in one tiny continent:
This is actually explained ingame. Don&#039;t ask the exact explanation, all I know is that it had something to do with Pyrdacor and the elemental key of ice (and also some other key, since he had two of the six in his posession - I think).
So before the Dragon Wars the north of Aventuria was actually much warmer.
My point being: TDE is one of the most plausible (generic...) Fantasy settings there is. Everything is explained somewhere, why and how magic works, how exactly priests can summon miracles, and I could even explain to you the historical background of so many cultures in Aventuria (and don&#039;t forget that the continent only has arround 2 million inhabitants, which isn&#039;t that much for a continent this size).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer to Okami&#8217;s point of having every imaginable climate zone in one tiny continent:<br />
This is actually explained ingame. Don&#8217;t ask the exact explanation, all I know is that it had something to do with Pyrdacor and the elemental key of ice (and also some other key, since he had two of the six in his posession &#8211; I think).<br />
So before the Dragon Wars the north of Aventuria was actually much warmer.<br />
My point being: TDE is one of the most plausible (generic&#8230;) Fantasy settings there is. Everything is explained somewhere, why and how magic works, how exactly priests can summon miracles, and I could even explain to you the historical background of so many cultures in Aventuria (and don&#8217;t forget that the continent only has arround 2 million inhabitants, which isn&#8217;t that much for a continent this size).</p>
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		<title>By: Albides</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-1/#comment-79499</link>
		<dc:creator>Albides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79499</guid>
		<description>Janto,

Epic fantasy does tend to be generic, but fantasy in general isn&#039;t. You&#039;ll find very little that&#039;s really generic in something like the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Fantasy_Award_for_Best_Novel&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;World Fantasy Award&lt;/a&gt;. And there are movements aiming for more variation in fantasy, like New Weird.

There&#039;s a few non-generic fantasy books that I&#039;ve been meaning to try. Ricardo Pinto&#039;s no-magic novel, The Chosen, which has a lovely website. K.J Bishop&#039;s The Etched City. Felix Gilman&#039;s Thunderer. China Mieville&#039;s Perdido St Station. Try amazon and one good book points to another.

Or buy Tekumel source books. It&#039;s worth it for the neat art alone, as well as the encyclopedic worldbuilding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janto,</p>
<p>Epic fantasy does tend to be generic, but fantasy in general isn&#8217;t. You&#8217;ll find very little that&#8217;s really generic in something like the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Fantasy_Award_for_Best_Novel" rel="nofollow">World Fantasy Award</a>. And there are movements aiming for more variation in fantasy, like New Weird.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a few non-generic fantasy books that I&#8217;ve been meaning to try. Ricardo Pinto&#8217;s no-magic novel, The Chosen, which has a lovely website. K.J Bishop&#8217;s The Etched City. Felix Gilman&#8217;s Thunderer. China Mieville&#8217;s Perdido St Station. Try amazon and one good book points to another.</p>
<p>Or buy Tekumel source books. It&#8217;s worth it for the neat art alone, as well as the encyclopedic worldbuilding.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieron Gillen</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/18/drakensang-demo-oh-its-in-german/comment-page-1/#comment-79498</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieron Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=2331#comment-79498</guid>
		<description>Perhaps ironically, the fantasy world in an RPG which immediately came to mind as least generic is Planescape. Which is D&amp;D.

But a hell of a lot less generic than most trad-fantasy MMOs, even revisionist ones like the Witcher.

KG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps ironically, the fantasy world in an RPG which immediately came to mind as least generic is Planescape. Which is D&#038;D.</p>
<p>But a hell of a lot less generic than most trad-fantasy MMOs, even revisionist ones like the Witcher.</p>
<p>KG</p>
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