By Kieron Gillen on September 2nd, 2008 at 9:43 am.
After Jim and Alec’s reviews have found their way into the world, Eurogamer eject my take on Clear Sky onto the Internet. In it I say things like:
“It’s a graphically improved prequel that integrates a mass of things that were promised for Stalker with assorted game tweaks that – on paper – sound as if they’d improve the immersion of the game considerably. In practice, it mainly shows that there are no good or bad ideas: only good and bad executions.”
And other stuff which is a bit more flowery. As per usual, eh? More here.
EDIT: Jim’s review here.
02/09/2008 at 09:51 Meat Circus says:
I hate games with unnecessary difficulty levels.
Unless somebody releases a “big girl’s blouse” mod, this is off my purchase list forever. Sad.
02/09/2008 at 10:13 Turin Turambar says:
What if you choose the first difficulty level (there are 4, doesnt it?)
It will be enough to balance the fact that Clear Sky is harder than the first Stalker?
02/09/2008 at 10:19 Meat Circus says:
It’s not so much the hardness that bothers, but how gratuitous it all sounds, in an attempt to please the l33t.
02/09/2008 at 10:38 PJ says:
dear Kieron Gillen
you get a new stalker suit during first few missions for Clear Sky faction. thats like after 30 mins of gameplay.
and you get HEAPS of money by doing missions for other faction later on. thus getting funds for both – new suits, and guns.
Game IS hard. like every other addon i have encountered in my life. its kinda normal for addons (its not a sequel since its generally based on exactly the same “tecmology” SoC was based on) to be more challenging than original titles. its because they are aimed at people who are well familiar with gameplay mechanics.
I have this weird feeling, that someone just couldnt get thru it, and released his hate (that can, but not have to be related to his low FPS skills) on the game itself.
02/09/2008 at 10:46 phil says:
I think he was ‘releasing his hate’ on the broken or ill conceived gameplay mechanics.
Personally I prefer to release mine on people attempting to hand me crappy free newspapers, they’re like London’s hate steam valves.
02/09/2008 at 10:52 Mr. President says:
Is it possible to stash all your gear and loot somewhere safe, right before the game tries to take it all away?
That’s what I would always do in Pathologic. (those were simpler times…)
02/09/2008 at 10:52 Alec Meer says:
This:
I have this weird feeling, that someone just couldnt get thru it, and released his hate (that can, but not have to be related to his low FPS skills) on the game itself.
is the same as saying “this professional games reviewer doesn’t know how to play games.”
02/09/2008 at 10:55 Kieron Gillen says:
Phil: Man! You meanie.
KG
02/09/2008 at 10:58 PJ says:
not picking up your quests rewards is not a broken gameplay mechanic imo :)
02/09/2008 at 10:58 Jim Rossignol says:
Well, it is Kieron we’re talking about.
02/09/2008 at 11:01 The Sombrero Kid says:
stalker is a difficult game though and i don’t mean hard when i say difficult i mean it makes it difficult to enjoy
02/09/2008 at 11:02 Colthor says:
Bleh, the “steal all your stuff” cliché is one of my least-favourite things in games. Compulsive hoarder that I am.
Anyway, the reviews are sounding depressingly consistent. Ho hum.
02/09/2008 at 11:03 TreeFrog says:
Having read all three RPSer reviews I’m surprised how highly the game scored. It sounds almost unplayable due to the design decisions this time, rather than the bugs. I was hoping that CS would be fun without having to wait six months for a mod overhaul.
02/09/2008 at 11:07 The Sombrero Kid says:
yeah i kinda thought with clear sky GSC were going to “sell out” and make the game enjoyable and compelling instead of an experiment in how long you can torture yourself for, congrats to everyone who managed to torture themselves till the end and beyond.
02/09/2008 at 11:07 Jim Rossignol says:
Clear Sky would be great if it were harder in a “ooh look at the AI surprising me” way, but it’s harder in an “oh I’m dead, reload” way.
02/09/2008 at 11:09 PJ says:
threefrog – i read two of them and tbh they feel like they have been written in the same room :D
tho i must say that both alec and kieron did point out some of important issues of CS.
02/09/2008 at 11:14 Kieron Gillen says:
PJ: Actually, I did go back. God knows why I didn’t get a reward, unless I talked to the wrong chap – did it change chaps? I remember being a bit disappointed that I didn’t receive any loot for finishing that mission off.
But still – I’d have had that suit for several hours, before it unavoidably got stolen from me, and I would have traipsed on in leathers until the next okay-ish free suit just before the Scientists.
EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, that’s actually a cute example of why GSC’s design-skills can go a bit awry. They know a character *should* have this armour at that point, but didn’t think about them *not* having that armour. Since they know the object should be available, most designers would have an affordable suit of armour of a similar-ish level a few levels on in case the person /did/ miss it. END-EDIT
Actually, that reminds me of another bugbear I didn’t mention – the game’s inconsistency on deciding whether you get a reward for helping or not. As in, you’ll get some “Help out” missions which seem to be solely for faction standing, but you don’t know before it starts. Not actually getting a reward after expending resources caused me to – you guessed it – reload a few times. Fuck ‘em if they’re not going to pay.
TreeFrog: You have to remember it’s still based on top of Stalker. I tried to put enough examples in to remind you of the neat stuff in the mother game, but can certainly see why you think it sounds worse than the marks. It’s infuriating, but it’s still a novel and interesting game.
KG
02/09/2008 at 11:31 PJ says:
kieron – its the always the merchant in faction’s hideout that pays and gives you uber loots. but i had a simmilar problem with Duty merchant later on, so it seems its just another example of fine eastern europoean craftsmanship
02/09/2008 at 11:33 Heliocentric says:
zing! PJ Called you noob. I never finished the warcraft 3 expansion after breezing through the base game. Got to one mission where you were just under too much pressure from the waves of attackers. But in an fps failure states (times you can no longer win) are more rare than in rts. When i read most of these reviews i hear great game horribly broken. Mods:-)
02/09/2008 at 11:35 PJ says:
the SMILEY emote that i placed when i wrote about skills was there to imply a JOKH
02/09/2008 at 11:37 Kieron Gillen says:
PJ: Ah, good to know it wasn’t just me being rubbish. In that case, anyway.
KG
02/09/2008 at 12:10 PJ says:
kieron – CS IS bit annoying sometimes (i dont know which build u played, my most recent one was free of the “merchant bug”, that i encountered in earlier builds) and there are some bugs that make you tap F9 button (loading times are a crime btw), but still – overall atmosphere is amazing, storyline is much clearer and this time you actually have a clue about whats going around, new lighting system is one of best up to date (those godrays look friggin amazing at sunrise or sunset, and its DX9 not DX10 based, which is good news for XP users), and new upgrade system is well implemented.
I did notice some AI improvements too – enemies were hiding behind covers more efficiently, strafing and trying to encircle me. Whole shooting element felt way more tactical then it felt in SoC. problem was when designers wanted to cheat and threw wave after wave, trying to take one of the outposts – that felt not right and i agree with you and Alec completly.
02/09/2008 at 13:25 Okami says:
Did you read the comments under the computer & video games review? Somebody noticed that the three most critical reviews of Clear Sky were all WRITTEN BY YOU and that you RUN RPS TOGETHER!!!111!!
Obviously you are planning to take over the world by talking to each other about the games you play. I demand, that you no longer talk to each other, otherwise your reviews are biased and can no longer be trusted!
Is there anything you can say in defence to that?
02/09/2008 at 13:26 Real Horrorshow says:
The vibe I get from these underwhelming reviews is that people are generally put off that it’s not exactly the same as SoC in tone, atmosphere, gameplay, and scariness.
It seems to me the differences in Clear Sky are the beginning of an overall story-arc GSC are trying to set up (Clear Sky and Shadow of Chernobyl)
In CS the Zone is new, not completely raped by radiation, not turned most of the greedy mercs into zombies. I play CS and I see a bunch of people trying to invade the zone and make profit from what it offers, ignorant of it’s evils, and in SoC I see a Zone with people in it barely clinging onto what they have as it slowly destroys them.
Perhaps the chronological sequel to SoC will be much much darker than SoC, the man-made hell setting in deeper and deeper. This is why I’m not devestated by the scariness being toned down.
If CS was exactly the same gameplay, missions, feel as SoC with half the areas being new, I honestly think I’d be more put off than I am with the CS we have now.
I don’t know, CS like it is just feels logical to me considering the timeframe. It’d be like a WW2 movie told from a German perspective, but with Germany already bombed to hell and everyone starving back in 1940, even though that’s when they were still going strong and prospering from their war. It wasn’t there yet. The zone’s not there yet.
OK my keyboard is smoking now, I’ll stop. :D
Oh and to be perfectly honest, it is a little strange to me that the three most negative reviews were written by three members of RPS all three read almost exactly the same. My guess? CONSPIRACY!
02/09/2008 at 13:26 MisterBritish says:
Oh well, until now I was holding out hope that it was actually still OK. If even Jim found it wanting that’s quite disappointing.
Did you find anything to enjoy? Would you have stopped playing if you weren’t reviewing it?
02/09/2008 at 13:28 Jim Rossignol says:
GSC’s world building skills remain undiminished. Clear Sky is very beautiful indeed.
It’s impossible not to compare the games, but even if you put that aside (especially if you put that aside) Clear Sky isn’t an entertaining shooter.
I suspect the more interesting comparison will actually be with Far Cry 2 later this year.
The faction war game design is bad, and that damages the entire experience. The same is true of the “improved” combat and the artefact dredging. The first few hours of Clear Sky were fine, but it goes downhill fast and has few “oh wow” moments to rescue it.
02/09/2008 at 13:30 Alec Meer says:
I quite liked the artefact hunting, however. Made getting one a real event.
02/09/2008 at 13:32 Alec Meer says:
Horrorshow – equally, it might be said to be odd that the other reviews don’t mention the game’s more glaring problems.
(Wrote this before your edit, obv).
02/09/2008 at 13:41 PJ says:
I agree with Alec on artifact hunting – it feels liek it should be – in strugackis book being a stalker was all about hunting artifacts and dying while trying. and when you find better detector its waaay easier to locate them.
as for reviews – thing is that while pointing out what went wrong you kinda forgot about whats still cool. 7 per 10 comes as a surpise after 2 or 3 pages of hard bashing :) and the game is perfectly playable
02/09/2008 at 13:41 Real Horrorshow says:
@ Alec: Edited because I came across much more serious about it than I actually am. Still…CONSPIRACY!
I do agree with PJ though: You all gave it around 7/10 yet the reviews read like an outright bad game that’s 4/10 or something, with a sentence at the end like “However it’s still kinda stalkery, 7/10.” There’s a lot of venom in the reviews for a game that’s one point worse than the apparently vastly superior SoC.
02/09/2008 at 13:50 Meat Circus says:
@Real Horroshow:
I was wondering about the full length mink coats and Swarovski-crystal-bedecked leggings they’ve been prancing around in recently.
SPARKLY FURRY PRANCING = AN EXTRA 3/10
02/09/2008 at 13:51 Muzman says:
KG’s review sounded more sad about a few (big, endemic even) stumbling blocks to enjoyment, JR’s sounded annoyed by almost everything. Didn’t seem all that collusive to me, really.
People always cry ‘Mods!’ in this situation which I think is kinda sad, but also ignores the difference the patches made to the first game. Enemy density, respawn rates, AI behaviour, equipment prices and availability were all changed quite significantly from the release version.
It’s obviously hard to say, not being privy to the game’s inner workings, but does it seem like some significant tweaking would make the world of difference here or does its problems seem more fundamental?
02/09/2008 at 13:54 Alex says:
You make it sound as if that´s just impossible. I´m not saying it´s the case here, but surely it’s possible for a professional games reviewer to be just plain bad at a game? Strange thing is you seem to be the one making it into a generalisation, there.
02/09/2008 at 13:55 Real Horrorshow says:
@ Muzman
Well, in defense of mods, it is one of the biggest things that sets our platform apart from consoles. To deny their importance is to partly deny the superiority of PC gaming.
While I don’t think a game should be given higher marks that the reviewer thinks it deserves at the time of review because “mods will fix it,” I don’t think it’s wrong at all for people across the net to point out that mods will improve CS immensely. When CS shares SoC’s file system, it’s practically a fact.
02/09/2008 at 14:03 Muzman says:
Oh it’s not that mods are bad or not a selling point. But saying ‘oh, never mind, mods’ll fix it’ is quite depreciative to my mind. I think GSC should make a good game and I think they can, and I don’t mean that in a ‘consumer rights’ way at all. Where people say ‘mods!’ I think we should say ‘patches!’ at least at first. That’s all it is. Mods are inevitable at this point, as you say.
02/09/2008 at 14:07 Jim Rossignol says:
I think he’s suggesting that it’s insulting in this case.
02/09/2008 at 14:44 darthpugwash says:
Say it ain’t so! STALKER was one of my favourite games last year (I loved Jim’s writings about it here, especially bad to see he didn’t like it so much), so it’s pretty disappointing to hear that this appears to be a step down from the first game.
The ‘take all your stuff’ mechanic is always annoying, too.
02/09/2008 at 15:07 paint says:
Is there multi? Is it good? Not really the point, I know, but maybe they did something cool with it this time.
02/09/2008 at 15:25 Elmo says:
Joke – RPS will prolly lose 80% of it`s users because of Clear Sky /joke
The only problem i see from CS getting some bad/meh reviews (as i don`t buy games based on review score) is that this will somewhat sink the sales of the game on the long run. I don`t really care if it`s better than SoC or not, i`ll still buy it, but internet elitists won`t. That makes me sad. And all 3 RPS guys are pretty respected reviewers.
02/09/2008 at 15:27 ascagnel says:
paint brings up a good point. The factional warfare system is begging to replace PlanetSide, and getting a good number of players into a server on different factions would be quite good, I think.
Still, its quite a disappointment to hear how poorly the faction warfare is executed.
Off-topic: If anyone’s read Cormac McCarthy’s excellent The Road, does the first hour or so of Shadow of Chernobyl remind you of that book? I read The Road after I played Shadow of Chernobyl, and the entire time I was picturing it in my mind’s eye in the washed-out colors of the X-Ray engine.
02/09/2008 at 15:27 Noc says:
Paint, it occurs to me that including multiplayer in this game is making WoW singleplayer. I haven’t played the game, but everything I’ve read about it paints it as a survival game with a focus on the world and exploration, as opposed to a Planetside-like warfare shooter.
02/09/2008 at 15:33 Elmo says:
Noc: What if the game would let you survive with your friends in a persistent game world ? Maybe have shards hosted by the user like in NwN. Maybe trade loot and artifacts. Maybe have each friend as a member of a different faction. Maybe have real players act as bandits that steal your shit and attack your base. Wouldn`t that be awesome ?
02/09/2008 at 15:48 The Sombrero Kid says:
i always thought stalker was the poor mans mmo, i.e. one without an internet connection
02/09/2008 at 15:51 cullnean says:
@elmo “And all 3 RPS guys are pretty respected reviewers.”
which one is the lie then? it would appear to be a conspiracy about them being 4!
(Above taken out of context)
02/09/2008 at 15:55 darthpugwash says:
@Elmo: I will still buy Clear Sky at some point, though my expectations of it will be somewhat lower than they would have been otherwise.
02/09/2008 at 15:57 Someone says:
Considering that I only bought the first Stalker because of the impassioned write ups on this site I think I am going to pass on Clear Skies if you gentlemen didn’t like it.
It’s a shame too, since Clear Skies really could have been a home run. All GSC needed to do was address some issues from the first game and polish the hell out of it and it would have been something exceptional. Well, actually, the first one was exceptional in its own way, but CS could have been something more.
All of this is moot, however. Jim only made a passing reference to system requirements, but from his one aside I gather my 5 year old machine, which can barely run Stalker acceptably, is not going to be able to handle CS. So even if the game was great I would be holding off until I bought a new PC to play it. As it stands, maybe I will check it out a year or so from now when it on sale for $20 or less on Steam.
02/09/2008 at 15:58 simonkaye says:
John Walker isn’t a myth. He’s Europe’s Premier Adventure Games Reviewer. And don’t you forget it.
02/09/2008 at 16:01 cullnean says:
post changed to reflect the fact, so which one be the myth?
02/09/2008 at 16:05 MeestaNob! says:
So, is this still a worthwhile purchase at $60 rather than $90? (or I dunno, £25-30 rather than the presumably full whack £40 of your money).
Is it shit, or just not omg awesome like we’d hoped?
02/09/2008 at 16:26 Optimaximal says:
It was available for £17.99 off the bat… Dunno about your silly dollarfrancs.
02/09/2008 at 16:36 MeestaNob! says:
£18 is very cheap sounding, wow!
Here in Ausland we’ve being charged $90+… at least we have nice beaches.
02/09/2008 at 16:39 Cooper says:
The ‘gameification’ in JR’s review made me shudder slightly, and KG’s constant battering of the immersion breaking dissapointed. Stalker felt less game like than anything I’ve played in a long while. I have no problem with being torunced by superior AI. That’s fine – I spent most of my time in SoC running. Fast. You see your comrades get gunned down and you leg it. But getting shafted without realising why is something I hate. Also comedic NPCs… Ergh… Hope the Russian speech files are put up for download quickly like before…
02/09/2008 at 17:46 Real Horrorshow says:
Well to be fair, even in SoC the NPC’s told stupid jokes. You just couldn’t understand them w/o localization. GSC didn’t up and decide “hey, let’s make the NPC’s funny in CS.” It’s been that way.
02/09/2008 at 18:49 Little Green Man says:
O THANK THE LORD: EVERYTHING IS BACK TO NORMAL!!!
02/09/2008 at 18:54 Fat Zombie says:
To be fair, the Eurogamer review sounds a lot more hopeful than the PC Gamer one. I imagine that after a while, patches will be released that will most likely alleviate some of the problems with the new features, and then it’d be better?
Also, I read the complaint in PC Gamer that the “blowout” event leads to standing around in a barn for minutes. What’s KG’s view on the blowout? To be fair, I remember people being rather excited by the idea of it before SoC was released, and some angry cries after it was cut. Could we just be fickle bastards?
02/09/2008 at 18:55 Little Green Man says:
Um I REALLY NEED HELP WITH MY PROBLEM OF THE SITE THINKING I AM ALEC AND JOHN!! WTF!!!
02/09/2008 at 19:08 James G says:
Getting similar problems in half the posts, I even ended up in the wordpress admin panel at one point, but resisted the temptation to post an entry in John’s name (although doubt I could have done, as it didn’t like my accidental attempt to comment as Alec). This is one of the few posts where I can actually comment.
02/09/2008 at 19:11 John Walker says:
It’s okay, calm down, it’s all fixed now.
We just thought you’d want to know what it was like to be us for a while. Clearly very scary.
02/09/2008 at 19:20 Noc says:
That’s odd, then. Because I didn’t feel drunk.
02/09/2008 at 19:30 Don says:
One bit of the PCG review made me smile, it referred to ‘bugs that can and will be fixed’. Well not if SoC is a guide, the game that occasionally crashed to desktop on my old machine is a BSOD disaster area on the new one. And before anyone asks nothing else behaves in the same way, it’s down to poor game coding. This is one game I’ll wait to see if a demo emerges and if it’s playable before shelling out.
02/09/2008 at 20:05 thesombrerokid says:
games don’t cause BSOD only drivers and hardware have that privledge i’m afraid
02/09/2008 at 20:18 born2expire says:
“is the same as saying “this professional games reviewer doesn’t know how to play games.””
have you seen the GameTrailers reviewers play? My god those have to be the biggest noobs ever.
Back to seriousness, I for one will be getting this day one on Steam. Stalker is one of my all time favorite games (next to mafia and the street fighter series) and this game is almost critic proof to me. As far as the difficulty is concerned I say bring it on, I’ll be playing it on Veteran my first time through (I played the original at least 4 time through on Master).
02/09/2008 at 21:57 DSX says:
Two decidedly negative reviews.. yet a 7 out of 10 rating? Perhaps only way to review this game is by comparing it to the potential it (evidently) fails to grasp, but it seems like a mixed message when it gets a generally positive score.
02/09/2008 at 22:01 darthpugwash says:
7-9 scale strikes again?
02/09/2008 at 22:24 Monkfish says:
I’ve just had one of those attempt-to-stifle-laugh-results-in-coffee-sprayed-across-the-screen moments when I saw that you’ve changed the site’s title to include “BE ADVISED!“.
:D
02/09/2008 at 22:32 Mogs says:
Be advised indeed!
What are the specs of the systems you were playing on btw? I’ve just upgraded so hopefully I should be able to run it OK. I’ll be pissed off if I can’t run DX10 stuff properly.
02/09/2008 at 22:42 Scandalon says:
RE: Biased reviews. I only trust reviews from people that haven’t played the game – that’s the only way to be sure they’re un-biased!
(Yea, I stole that from movie “reviews” on the Bob and Tom show.)
03/09/2008 at 00:46 paint says:
Noc – there was multi in the last one so the time for your analogy has already passed… possibly someone who’s actually got it can have a go?
03/09/2008 at 01:03 Alec Meer says:
Mogs – I’m running a GeForce GTX 280 (borrowed for a hardware review; I don’t have that kind of spare cash myself, sadly) and I can’t coax much more than 20fps out the DX10 mode at 1680×1050, or from the similarly new DX9 pseudo-DX10 mode. Dropping down to the original Stalker’s top visual settings, it runs smooth as silk – a good 50fps faster on average, significantly more at times. It’s possible a future NVIDIA driver will fix the DX10 etc performance, but I’m not going to bank on it.
I’ve yet to influence Jim and Kieron’s opinions enough to safely state how they’d say the DX10 mode ran, however.
03/09/2008 at 01:09 Justin says:
The Oblivion Lost mod for the original Stalker (among others) added features mentioned as negatives in the review: grenades, blowouts, and more frequent A-life action is what I can think of offhand.
On one hand, I had the same reaction: the grenades were startlingly deadly; the blowouts led to waiting around for them to finish, and there were a lot more animals and activity to fight through instead of the known spawn locations in the ‘vanilla’ version of the game.
But! It still worked. I learned to avoid being in grenade range; there were a few cues. I dealt with blowouts; they made me a nervous kind of bored, if that makes sense. The additional A-Life activity really came through when I played a second time, because it kept it from being predictable. So I don’t know if they will be that bad in term of game enjoyment – will these features be as negative if the player becomes willing to believe this is how the world is supposed to work in the game? That’s a lot of how the first Stalker gets away with it.
Heck, a lot of the mods were specifically designed to get rid of the more focused endgame and keep it as open-ended for exploration as possible. The reviews seems pretty mission-oriented; might the game work better from an exploration standpoint?
The original Stalker had its irritating points, a lot of which were fixed after the fact. I’d like to think this iteration of Stalker is starting out farther ahead, technology-wise, and can improve. I’ve been trying to figure out how to put together a new PC just to play this – even if it’s not as exciting as I hoped, I want a faster PC to play the original Stalker, again, with more turned on.
Speeaking of which, I got a worse and worse slowdown (a pause every few seconds) as the original game progressed; anyone familiar with that? Part of my desire for a new computer was just to hopefully get over that problem.
03/09/2008 at 01:24 Mori says:
A couple of things:
Did you try pressing escape while the bandits were trying to mug you? In the first game this immediately quit any dialogue, so I guess if it works in Clear Sky it’d let you fight the bandits rather than giving up your stuff. Poor design, but it’d be nice to know if there is an alternative to giving them your things.
Also, the awful humor was present in the original STALKER, it was just all left in russian so we could pretend it was gritty stalker talk, rather than horrible pun based jokes and bandits who talk like wiggers.
Apparently there is going to be another patch for the game released on the same day as the worldwide (well, everywhere but north american) release, which will hopefully address some of the balance issues as well as bugs.
Most of the reviews that have been negative so far have all pretty much just complained about the same things, none of which sound like they’ll greatly damage my enjoyment of the game, especially with a lot of STALKER fans enjoying the game, and the generally positive reaction to the game in the russian fan forums. Oblivion Lost added grenades, and there was no fancy HUD indicator for them like there is in Clear Sky.
03/09/2008 at 02:45 Real Horrorshow says:
@ Alec: Just bad luck for you I guess. On the Russian version on maxed DX9 it performed great at 1680×1050, the only major performance hit was at the Clear Sky base. Out in the zone it was perfectly fine. And I have an “ancient” 8800GTX.
DX10 mode does run like shit, though.
03/09/2008 at 03:36 Deuteronomy says:
If Clear Sky turns out to be brilliant this site will take a serious hit to its cred.
03/09/2008 at 04:10 Muzman says:
Yeah the harsh review of blowouts is notable. In AMK mod the blowouts are an awesome addition, just irregular enough to make them something else to plan for; don’t set out on a long journey if there’s one in the next few hours, you might get caught outdoors. And just often enough it slips your mind and you’re scrambling for the nearest hole with everything else in the vicinity, not all of which is happy to see you. Then you wander outside and find some guy you were just talking to dead metres from the entrance to a shelter because he was still nursing wounds from some encounter earlier.
Intense. I don’t know how they could get it wrong.
I’m still curious if the reviewers think rebalancing in a patch might make the whole experience gel better, or if that’d still leave too many annoyances.
03/09/2008 at 11:14 Mori says:
According to some people with the game, the part where you get your stuff stolen by the bandits isn’t unskippable, if you don’t drop your weapon and go over to talk to them like you ask they attack you and you can kill them.
And for what it’s worth, the latest patch changes it so you can get your belongings back http://clanbase.ggl.com/news.php?nid=296610&Source=rss
The patch also changes the economic system, and makes it so that you’re always rewarded for helping capture an enemy base. A whole lot of balance changes in general, hopefully the next one will improve the game further.
03/09/2008 at 11:37 Alec Meer says:
This patch definitely sounds like good news, though clearly we’ll need to see what it’s like in practice.
But a question (and I may make this into a separate post at some point): should game reviewers make their judgements with presumption of a problem-fixing patch in mind? Or should we base it only on the code we’re presented with? If option a) what happens if the problems aren’t, in fact, fixed?
03/09/2008 at 11:38 Mogs says:
Hmm, cheers for that Alec. I’ve gone with ATI myself (HD4870) who tend to update their drivers more frequently than Nvidia, so hopefully if it’s initially bad it’ll get sorted quickly. I’m also running a quad core machine with 4 gig of fast RAM so in theory I more than meet the recommended requirements.
Let’s put it this way, if it doesn’t work out of the box it better be patched bloody quickly or there will be plenty more BE ADVISED! posts scattered around the internet.
03/09/2008 at 11:48 Ian says:
@ Alec: Games reviewers should base reviews on what they’ve got in front of them. If a retrospective or second-look type article is then required so be it, but certainly I want to know what the reviewer felt with the game out of the box.
03/09/2008 at 11:55 Kieron Gillen says:
Re: Bandits. Worth noting that the dodging Bandits-steal-stuff bits only applies to the moments during play. It doesn’t include the one cut-scene based forced-failure when bandits rob you.
KG
03/09/2008 at 12:05 aldo says:
@Alec Meer
But a question (and I may make this into a separate post at some point): should game reviewers make their judgements with presumption of a problem-fixing patch in mind? Or should we base it only on the code we’re presented with? If option a) what happens if the problems aren’t, in fact, fixed?
It’d be silly to base a review on a presumed patch (after all, there are quite a few games released half finished and left that way), but methinks it should be standard to revisit games if they’ve had significant updates and re-rate if appropriate.
August would seem to be the perfect time for that sort of thing, given the utter lack of decent games…..
03/09/2008 at 12:06 cullnean says:
also mmo’s should be reviewed a few months in
03/09/2008 at 12:09 Ian says:
@ Cullnean: I’d agree with that, most definitely. I think there should be an initial, shorter review to give players an idea of how it all hangs together and then really study it after more players have joined. If they’ve joined. This does, admittedly, give devs a chance to improve the game with patches which goes against what I’d said peviously, but the game isn’t really in it’s “true” state until there’s a healthy amount of players.
03/09/2008 at 12:20 Mori says:
The patch also changes the cutscene robbery to make the bandits only take a bit of your money, not all your stuff.
03/09/2008 at 12:40 Mogs says:
You should review the game you’ve got, but if it’s obvious that a mod/patch will sort it, then make sure the tone is optimistic and put in a qualifier like “OK, the game is pretty bad at the moment, but I’m quietly confident that these issues will be fixed” which I think most of you did.
03/09/2008 at 12:51 Ian says:
@ Mori: Isn’t that less irksome in terms of “Ugh got to get stuff again”, but actually makes zero sense?
03/09/2008 at 12:58 wcaypahwat says:
Our local (Australian) PC gaming mag re-reviews MMO’s and other games several months on, regarding how they’ve changed/community activity/etc.
03/09/2008 at 14:12 Mori says:
@Ian: If it’s unskippable and unavoidable then I guess it’s a better introduction to the fact that bandits will rob you than them stealing all your stuff
Now when they steal your stuff post-patch you have to go and get it back from a stash in their base, I guess to make it an actual inconvenience than just a case of headshotting the guy who took your stuff with your pistol, then getting your stuff back in a second and killing his friends.
With regard to the reviewers, I don’t think you can take patches into account when you review a game. Some companies are good at releasing patches quickly, GSC are pretty damn good at it, having released one for the russian version a day or two after it launched there, and having another big one lined up for the world wide release. Other companies never bother to patch their games.
Some of the main issues in the reviews seem like they could be fixed by patches, like the frequency with which NPCs throw grenades, the bandit robbery, the frequency of the random faction missions and the rewards you get from them (these were actually some of the things in the russian patch, if I understand the notes right), and maybe some things in the options menu to let you turn off some of the PDA markings (these weren’t added in the patch).
Some of them seem to be more permanent issues, like the cheesy dialogue, which admittedly isn’t something GSC added after the first game, the incidental dialogue there was just as cheesy, but they actually bothered to translate it this time. The faction wars being kind of bar-charty seems pretty unfixable too unless they add an option to just hide all that stuff. I don’t really mind about that though.
03/09/2008 at 14:24 Jetsetlemming says:
A poster on Something Awful who’s playing the Russian version responded to the reviews saying that the equipment theft is absolutely avoidable. You can just kill the bandits (Who are clearly labeled as bandits), or ignore their requests to talk to you and they’ll turn hostile.
03/09/2008 at 14:27 Alec Meer says:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArgh. For the final time: yes, that is true. Apart from one single, specific, scripted cutscene moment about a third or halfway through the plot missions that you cannot avoid. You can be robbed multiple other times throughout the game, but they’re absolutely avoidable. I suspect the SA poster hasn’t hit that specific moment yet.
03/09/2008 at 14:45 Jetsetlemming says:
A third OR Halfway? What, didn’t you finish the game? ;)
03/09/2008 at 14:49 Deuteronomy says:
Well there have been at least three 80 plus reviews so far. I have a strong feeling Clear Sky is going to live up to expectations by the second or third patch.
03/09/2008 at 14:54 dhex says:
should game reviewers make their judgements with presumption of a problem-fixing patch in mind?
unless the company has announced a major patch as imminent, no. and even then; if someone hands you 3/4ths of a meal, and you’re a restaurant reviewer, you don’t presume the other 1/4 was delicious. you don’t even know if it exists.
04/09/2008 at 03:06 PJ says:
btw- its perfectly possible to hide your stuff at the flea market before that unavoidable robbing happens, thus braking the experience but getting back that sweet jacket that costed 20k rubles to fit out ^^
04/09/2008 at 07:21 MeestaNob! says:
Games should be reviewed on release. It doesn’t matter if it has a handy autopatcher or continuously updating online content. Same goes for MMOs – you are reviewing the experience an early adopter would have, no use reviewing it otherwise.
You wouldn’t review anything else months after it came out, and issue a retrospective “I told you so”. Reviews MUST happen on a products release, in effect it’s part of the hype train (whether it wants to be or not), and is useless months after, especially in print media.
Magazines can write future articles about improvements and suggested revised scores/grades without actually changing their initial opinion. Websites have the luxury of doing this daily.
At the end of the day when you take your money to the shop you are buying something today, not in 2 months time when the gremlins have been moved on.
17/09/2008 at 16:53 Armitage says:
Seems like reviewers of this day are so poor players that they seem to dump a game they cannot play. I play Stalker with Veteran level, and it seems to be kinda easy. Planning to change on Master. Maybe you need to be a Stalker to like the game. Not a wussy. =)
17/09/2008 at 16:58 Armitage says:
True: Bugs too much
False: Too difficult.
Better said: A challenge too big for the reviewers.
I have read now couple reviews that indicate that the reviewers have grown up to a brainless FPS world where no patience is tolerated. You survive in STALKER by stalking, waiting the right moment. Not running and shooting brainlessly everybody. I find it interesting that this very boring and unrealistic and far too common game style actually amuses someone. And when you have a challenge, you hate it. What kind of people are like that? Wussies. =)
17/09/2008 at 17:07 cullnean says:
@armitage
just becaues they dont like a game you obviously love does not make them rubbish at games (except gillen)
19/09/2008 at 07:26 Real Horrorshow says:
Having actually played the English version of the game now, I have to agree with the reviews for the most part.
Clear Sky is a good game, it’s just not S.T.A.L.K.E.R. It’s missing it’s soul.
25/09/2008 at 12:58 tarkovsky fiend says:
Guys, do you think that these rash, apparently not-very-well play-tested ‘bad game-design decisions’ have transpired because of GSC’s infamous release-date problems? I really think they took that criticism of the vanilla game as gospel and have just fired they’re game out as fast as possible without thorough playtesting.
I was gutted when I read Jim R’s review in PCG. Clear Skies release was (by far!) my most eagerly anticipated game/event of the year. I haven’t got it yet because of the strength of criticism from reviews. I can read through the lines and I know where my tastes can radically differ, but I do see some disturbing trends in the reviews concerning gameplay design building up here.
But here’s the thing: I CAN’T PLAY THE ORIGINAL STALKER :SoC AS IT WAS IN IT’S ORIGINAL RELEASE. It infuriates and bores the hell out of me! With Patch 1.4, Realism mod and my own tinkerings ( giving the Trader the SVD sniper rifle from the start, but he sells for double price- You’ve still got to raise the cash, that sort of thing) – I love the original to bits.
Endpoint?
Mods will change and improve the game considerably. GSC should get rid of the game design muppet that seems to have b*ggered up quite a bit – or tell him to lay of the vodka!
And lets swap sounds files with our Ukrainian & Russian gaming comrades so we can all once again enjoy the mystery and respite from rotten NPC dialogue and ‘jokes’!
26/09/2008 at 23:10 tarkovsky fiend says:
Just want to say I hope the GSC games Designer lead doesn’t really lose his ( her? have these GSC guys any concept that another sex exists? No, really?>??? where is Missus Stalker????) job, because they’re an incredibly talented group of devs.
Just wish they’d polish they’re ‘baby’ more.
Best example of a similar situation concerning reviewing a game and scoring it in the here and now- maybe Something like Vampire:The Masqerade. Loved the concept, execution…Oh, I can actually finish the game 3 months after release..thanks to the mod community. You have to review what’s in front off you, rather than in future potential (i.e. Mods will fix it…or with Stalker – quality new scalable interface patch – limit AI grenade throwing, NPC spawning rate, blowouts on/off, Fag Quake gamer mode or REAL HARD PROPER STALKER not a pish reviewer! options …maybe?)
You’ve got to rate it higher than Sh*te like Ghost Recon: Advanced Fartfighter anyway…?
Gimme bugs and shallow game design to American crap anyday.
02/10/2008 at 19:53 Chris R says:
Hey, if I get the Steam version of Clear Skies.. will I have issues when I add mods in?