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	<title>Comments on: The Sunday Papers</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/</link>
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		<title>By: Kieron Gillen</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94666</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieron Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94666</guid>
		<description>Bhazor: Because I was pretty good at crafting running jokes. Especially when I know that I should be mocked.

Pete: http://www.last.fm/user/BremXJones
I don&#039;t listen to everything on my last.fm music player though. A load of CDs. A load of Myspace and Youtube pages too.

KG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bhazor: Because I was pretty good at crafting running jokes. Especially when I know that I should be mocked.</p>
<p>Pete: <a href="http://www.last.fm/user/BremXJones" rel="nofollow">http://www.last.fm/user/BremXJones</a><br />
I don&#8217;t listen to everything on my last.fm music player though. A load of CDs. A load of Myspace and Youtube pages too.</p>
<p>KG</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94661</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94661</guid>
		<description>Keiron, without wishing to come across as a tragic fan boy, have you got a last.fm stream or some such? Your taste in obscure catchy pop impresses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keiron, without wishing to come across as a tragic fan boy, have you got a last.fm stream or some such? Your taste in obscure catchy pop impresses.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94643</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94643</guid>
		<description>Because Gillen sightings et al were a fun injoke.

Like Loughborough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because Gillen sightings et al were a fun injoke.</p>
<p>Like Loughborough.</p>
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		<title>By: Bhazor</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94579</link>
		<dc:creator>Bhazor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94579</guid>
		<description>Reply to Kieron

But that doesn&#039;t explain why people responded to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply to Kieron</p>
<p>But that doesn&#8217;t explain why people responded to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieron Gillen</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94553</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieron Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94553</guid>
		<description>Bhazor: &quot;That interview reminds me of the reason PC Gamer ran a regular Gillen baiting section.&quot;

That I started it?

KG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bhazor: &#8220;That interview reminds me of the reason PC Gamer ran a regular Gillen baiting section.&#8221;</p>
<p>That I started it?</p>
<p>KG</p>
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		<title>By: Okami</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94549</link>
		<dc:creator>Okami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94549</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of the article on Warhammer coolness as well as with most of the objections raised in this comments section. I&#039;ve never seen anybody play a Witch Hunter as a ranged class. I guess that&#039;s because you just can&#039;t do it - I play one myself and you&#039;ll never get to level 3 if all you do is use your gun. 

Though you do see a lot of Witch Hunters shooting their pistols in RVR quite a lot. But that&#039;s because it slows down fleeing opponents (very important to stop fleeing casters and flag carriers) and sometimes because it&#039;s all you can do at the moment (when your feet get stapled to the ground by one of those bastard spellcasters for example). 

Concerning Warrior Priests: If there&#039;s a problem with people not using the class&#039; potential to it&#039;s fullest, it&#039;s usually because they mistake themselves for tanks and forget to heal their party members and not the other way round..

But all in all, the article is spot on. I know that my first reaction when a Black Orc or Chosen comes charging at my Witch Hunter is to turn tail and run - &quot;My puny blade will never be able to hurt this behemoth!&quot;. It was a purely psychological reaction based on the sheer size and brutality of the model, not any logical thinking on my side. 

During my last few RVR scenarios I&#039;ve begun to actually stand my ground against tanks (but only if there are allies around - I still don&#039;t take them on 1on1) and lo and behold, I can actually kill them every now and then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of the article on Warhammer coolness as well as with most of the objections raised in this comments section. I&#8217;ve never seen anybody play a Witch Hunter as a ranged class. I guess that&#8217;s because you just can&#8217;t do it &#8211; I play one myself and you&#8217;ll never get to level 3 if all you do is use your gun. </p>
<p>Though you do see a lot of Witch Hunters shooting their pistols in RVR quite a lot. But that&#8217;s because it slows down fleeing opponents (very important to stop fleeing casters and flag carriers) and sometimes because it&#8217;s all you can do at the moment (when your feet get stapled to the ground by one of those bastard spellcasters for example). </p>
<p>Concerning Warrior Priests: If there&#8217;s a problem with people not using the class&#8217; potential to it&#8217;s fullest, it&#8217;s usually because they mistake themselves for tanks and forget to heal their party members and not the other way round..</p>
<p>But all in all, the article is spot on. I know that my first reaction when a Black Orc or Chosen comes charging at my Witch Hunter is to turn tail and run &#8211; &#8220;My puny blade will never be able to hurt this behemoth!&#8221;. It was a purely psychological reaction based on the sheer size and brutality of the model, not any logical thinking on my side. </p>
<p>During my last few RVR scenarios I&#8217;ve begun to actually stand my ground against tanks (but only if there are allies around &#8211; I still don&#8217;t take them on 1on1) and lo and behold, I can actually kill them every now and then.</p>
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		<title>By: Muzman</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94493</link>
		<dc:creator>Muzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94493</guid>
		<description>That word filter baiting shooter game seems to me a &#039;gamification&#039;  (gamorisation?  any worse neologisms out there?) of your fairly typical lunchtime conversation in your average working class business concern.  There&#039;s a lot of amateur gynocological analysis that goes on there into the diseases and maladies of the female reproductive system, with special attention paid to observing and describing anatomy and symptomatic issue that one might find there.  It&#039;s amateur but thorough and enthusiastic none the less.
In my humble experience this sort of dialogue is almost universal among work environments, outside of the polite female dominated office (but not always and certainly not the male dominated boardroom) or the school.  This might be an Australian thing, I don&#039;t know.
But to me, calling this game an exposure of the misogyny and gynophobia at the underbelly of gaming is missing the big male picture in a pretty singular way.  And even then it&#039;s overstating things.  It&#039;s mostly a gross-out contest.  And while people going for the easy win with female body parts tells its own story it&#039;s not quite as cut and dried as these guys hate women or have unresolved psychological issues surrounding them  (most of the people I&#039;ve known were married with children).  There&#039;s a large amount of tradition involved  and people&#039;s actual behaviour does a lot to undermine any negative signs the cultural studies folks might find.
The game&#039;s a gross out absurdity, and guys all over are going to love it because they do this sort of thing anyway in other forms (not that I&#039;m fond of this fact).  Others have probably mentioned this, but the &#039;ship&#039; being a pathetic little underdog of a willy is pretty funny too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That word filter baiting shooter game seems to me a &#8216;gamification&#8217;  (gamorisation?  any worse neologisms out there?) of your fairly typical lunchtime conversation in your average working class business concern.  There&#8217;s a lot of amateur gynocological analysis that goes on there into the diseases and maladies of the female reproductive system, with special attention paid to observing and describing anatomy and symptomatic issue that one might find there.  It&#8217;s amateur but thorough and enthusiastic none the less.<br />
In my humble experience this sort of dialogue is almost universal among work environments, outside of the polite female dominated office (but not always and certainly not the male dominated boardroom) or the school.  This might be an Australian thing, I don&#8217;t know.<br />
But to me, calling this game an exposure of the misogyny and gynophobia at the underbelly of gaming is missing the big male picture in a pretty singular way.  And even then it&#8217;s overstating things.  It&#8217;s mostly a gross-out contest.  And while people going for the easy win with female body parts tells its own story it&#8217;s not quite as cut and dried as these guys hate women or have unresolved psychological issues surrounding them  (most of the people I&#8217;ve known were married with children).  There&#8217;s a large amount of tradition involved  and people&#8217;s actual behaviour does a lot to undermine any negative signs the cultural studies folks might find.<br />
The game&#8217;s a gross out absurdity, and guys all over are going to love it because they do this sort of thing anyway in other forms (not that I&#8217;m fond of this fact).  Others have probably mentioned this, but the &#8217;ship&#8217; being a pathetic little underdog of a willy is pretty funny too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody Macgregor</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94478</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody Macgregor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94478</guid>
		<description>Re: Ladyhawke

Did you know she&#039;s a bit of a gamer? Apparently she&#039;s into Medal Of Honour 2: Heroes and good old Mario Kart, among other things. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thelipster.com/articles/ladyhawke-s-favourite-video-games&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Ladyhawke</p>
<p>Did you know she&#8217;s a bit of a gamer? Apparently she&#8217;s into Medal Of Honour 2: Heroes and good old Mario Kart, among other things. See <a href="http://www.thelipster.com/articles/ladyhawke-s-favourite-video-games" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Bhazor</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94472</link>
		<dc:creator>Bhazor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94472</guid>
		<description>That interview reminds me of the reason PC Gamer ran a regular Gillen baiting section. 

More importantly will the Singles Club feature the 30 page wank Undress Me Robot writers were waiting for?

Aside: Wank is unrecognised by my spell checker. I was sure it would have learnt it by now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That interview reminds me of the reason PC Gamer ran a regular Gillen baiting section. </p>
<p>More importantly will the Singles Club feature the 30 page wank Undress Me Robot writers were waiting for?</p>
<p>Aside: Wank is unrecognised by my spell checker. I was sure it would have learnt it by now.</p>
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		<title>By: qrter</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94457</link>
		<dc:creator>qrter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94457</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;John Keefer of Crispy Gamer trying to start a debate on whether Embargos hold back games journalism in a harmful way. I’m not entirely on side with John with a couple of key points, but it’s worth thinking about what he’s saying.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;d like to hear what you think, Kieron. Most of us (including myself) are still people standing on the outside looking in, so it&#039;d be interesting to hear a different perspective from within the industry.

As a Member Of The Public I do find the whole &#039;exclusive review&#039;-thing more than slightly insane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>John Keefer of Crispy Gamer trying to start a debate on whether Embargos hold back games journalism in a harmful way. I’m not entirely on side with John with a couple of key points, but it’s worth thinking about what he’s saying.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;d like to hear what you think, Kieron. Most of us (including myself) are still people standing on the outside looking in, so it&#8217;d be interesting to hear a different perspective from within the industry.</p>
<p>As a Member Of The Public I do find the whole &#8216;exclusive review&#8217;-thing more than slightly insane.</p>
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		<title>By: Dinger</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94430</link>
		<dc:creator>Dinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94430</guid>
		<description>On the cunt dissection: If you&#039;re going to analyze images, you might as well put them up there. No sense being prudish, especially when you&#039;re being so off-puttingly hostile.

I mean, generally, when you encounter a line like: &quot;What could possibly possess anyone to create such a game?&quot; that&#039;s usually a sign that the person doing the analysis &quot;doesn&#039;t get it,&quot; almost, but not quite as compelling as guys with boobie-avatars declaring that they know what sexism is.

Uncharitable readings only serve to weaken the particular argument while circumstantially weakening all the others. For example,
&lt;blockquote&gt;He states that the things he finds interesting are things &quot;that most people don&#039;t talk about.&quot; Imagery of the vagina/woman as a threat to the existence of the penis/man? That&#039;s called misogyny, and people do talk about it. The fact that he can say that &quot;most people don&#039;t talk about&quot; the themes evoked by the imagery in his game reveals that he is speaking from a position of male privilege. He can choose to be blind to misogyny because hatred towards women doesn&#039;t affect his existence or identity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
What kind of response would we expect the game author to give from that? &quot;# you. Don&#039;t go visiting my intentions. Ever.&quot;?

Here&#039;s a more enlightening exegesis that reinforces the core thesis without the need to accuse the game designers of being a clueless yoniphobes and phallocrats:

The game itself is a commentary on the antifeminist subtext of &quot;Boss battles&quot; that has been structurally present since the beginning. Compare the repugnant depiction of the female pudenda with some of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.retrojunk.com/details_articles/776/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;collections &lt;/a&gt; of classic &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/tenspot/0918boss/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;video game bosses&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;i&gt;Cunt&lt;/i&gt; clearly has artistic ties to many of them. In fact, &lt;i&gt;Cunt&lt;/i&gt; points out what&#039;s been going on for nearly three decades, without discussion: that the &quot;evil bosses&quot; that trap the player, preventing him (for the player is masculinized in these neighborhoods) from going forward, is almost always vaginized. The Cunt boss is a dead ringer for the box-art depiction of &lt;i&gt;Karateka&lt;/i&gt;&#039;s Akuma, and it gets worse from there.

So, yes, the game Cunt, whether the creators intended to or not, points out to us that running underneath a transgenre videogame convention pulls a strong current of misogyny and gynophobia. Indeed, that&#039;s what makes those encounters so emotionally powerful to the (males) they are targeted at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the cunt dissection: If you&#8217;re going to analyze images, you might as well put them up there. No sense being prudish, especially when you&#8217;re being so off-puttingly hostile.</p>
<p>I mean, generally, when you encounter a line like: &#8220;What could possibly possess anyone to create such a game?&#8221; that&#8217;s usually a sign that the person doing the analysis &#8220;doesn&#8217;t get it,&#8221; almost, but not quite as compelling as guys with boobie-avatars declaring that they know what sexism is.</p>
<p>Uncharitable readings only serve to weaken the particular argument while circumstantially weakening all the others. For example,</p>
<blockquote><p>He states that the things he finds interesting are things &#8220;that most people don&#8217;t talk about.&#8221; Imagery of the vagina/woman as a threat to the existence of the penis/man? That&#8217;s called misogyny, and people do talk about it. The fact that he can say that &#8220;most people don&#8217;t talk about&#8221; the themes evoked by the imagery in his game reveals that he is speaking from a position of male privilege. He can choose to be blind to misogyny because hatred towards women doesn&#8217;t affect his existence or identity.</p></blockquote>
<p>What kind of response would we expect the game author to give from that? &#8220;# you. Don&#8217;t go visiting my intentions. Ever.&#8221;?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a more enlightening exegesis that reinforces the core thesis without the need to accuse the game designers of being a clueless yoniphobes and phallocrats:</p>
<p>The game itself is a commentary on the antifeminist subtext of &#8220;Boss battles&#8221; that has been structurally present since the beginning. Compare the repugnant depiction of the female pudenda with some of the <a href="http://www.retrojunk.com/details_articles/776/" rel="nofollow">collections </a> of classic <a href="http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/tenspot/0918boss/" rel="nofollow">video game bosses</a>. <i>Cunt</i> clearly has artistic ties to many of them. In fact, <i>Cunt</i> points out what&#8217;s been going on for nearly three decades, without discussion: that the &#8220;evil bosses&#8221; that trap the player, preventing him (for the player is masculinized in these neighborhoods) from going forward, is almost always vaginized. The Cunt boss is a dead ringer for the box-art depiction of <i>Karateka</i>&#8217;s Akuma, and it gets worse from there.</p>
<p>So, yes, the game Cunt, whether the creators intended to or not, points out to us that running underneath a transgenre videogame convention pulls a strong current of misogyny and gynophobia. Indeed, that&#8217;s what makes those encounters so emotionally powerful to the (males) they are targeted at.</p>
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		<title>By: malkav11</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/09/28/the-sunday-papers-36/comment-page-1/#comment-94425</link>
		<dc:creator>malkav11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=3380#comment-94425</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting. I agree that Destruction is being picked in significant part because they are aesthetically cooler, but I&#039;ve never noticed Witch Hunters trying to be a gun class (how would you even do that? Almost all of their non-Execution skills are melee, as far as I know.), or Swordmasters not knowing they&#039;re a tank class. And every Warrior Priest I&#039;ve grouped with was right in the thick of the melee - I know I certainly am, unless that would get me killed in short order. (I&#039;ve also occasionally hung back to be resurrection-man.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting. I agree that Destruction is being picked in significant part because they are aesthetically cooler, but I&#8217;ve never noticed Witch Hunters trying to be a gun class (how would you even do that? Almost all of their non-Execution skills are melee, as far as I know.), or Swordmasters not knowing they&#8217;re a tank class. And every Warrior Priest I&#8217;ve grouped with was right in the thick of the melee &#8211; I know I certainly am, unless that would get me killed in short order. (I&#8217;ve also occasionally hung back to be resurrection-man.)</p>
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