OK, we’re falling into a pit of escalating post size, I’ll just say that I think your argument is limited to games that tell a story through non-interactive means, i.e. cutscenes, whereas there are plenty of games that tell a story through interaction and gameplay, but I’ll concede that there are fewer examples of games that tie together story and gameplay as opposed to showing you a bit of story, then a bit of gameplay, and even fewer examples of games that can do this well.
But a good meeting of the minds nonetheless.

I think that storytelling in games quite often isn’t all that different from the Q3 proposition. I’ve gotten JRPG fans to admit that games they like would be crap without the story! There is only endlessly repetitive, not very engaging gameplay, with cutscenes in-between. That which makes it a game sucks, so why then is it a game in the first place?

“Games are not about story, games are about doing things […] and the story is just the context”

Warren Spector said that and I’m not quoting him to be cool, it just sums up what I think. Lets take Deus Ex as an example. The story provides the context for your actions and makes them a lot more interesting, but the game is not about the story, nor is it the narrative that makes it great. It’s your own personal stories from the game that are the best parts about it. I saved Paul, or I did this or that and then this or that happened (just read Kireon’s review :p).

A lot of games tell stories just through cinematics. It’s a movie in a game! They could just as well stick a book in there (and I suppose some games do). Don’t you think there’s a huge misfit?

If games want to tell stories they should try to do it in a way that’s suited to the medium, not throw a totally different medium in there every once in a while. The time you and your buddies got into the jeep, drove across the map but then the jeep blew up and you went flying 20 feet and landed on someone’s head and killed them and then whatever, those are the memorable moments from games you play, not the time when you watched the cutscene of the big spike thing falling on the huge monster’s head.

I think that the fact that games are about being played has gotten lost somewhere. Q3 and some other games are just fun! I want the gameplay in games to be fun, not to be ‘cinematic’ with boring scripted shit happening that just makes you yawn. I admit that there are wider ranges of experiences than just having fun, horror games come to mind, but I still think too few games have fun gameplay. It’s super hard to design gameplay, I doubt you even can, it needs iteration and evolution. That’s why Blizzard games rock so much, because they actually tweak the gameplay until it’s fun, and don’t just design something and then release it when it works.

I doubt I got anything said =/

@ kyrieee:

“The imagined need to shoehorn in a story just takes focus away from gameplay. You play games to play, not to get a story. If you can fit a story in, great, but if I want a good story I don’t go looking for it in games”

Sometimes I play for the story. I can understand if no narrative in games has ever grabbed you but that is your personal taste.
Me, I can think of plenty of narrative based games where the story is one of the main reasons I play. Citing Quake 3 and Trackmania as games that would suffer from a story/cutscene is obvious and absurd. They are games which have been designed from the ground up as ludological experiences.
I think games can be a very powerful story telling device and I feel there are already several titles which play to the mediums strengths in conveying a narrative.

First the part where you turn into a colossus and try to fight against the soldiers. They’re just these tiny things and you trash and flail about and it’s impossible to hit them. All the game you spent fighting colossi and suddenly you’re thrust into their shoes.

And then the part where you fight against the force sucking you away from your love. I really felt desperation in that moment. You hold on to every ledge you can grasp, watching your stamina meter trickle down, trying to get nearer to your girl and you just know that you’ll never make it.

I could have just let go and watch the rest of the ending, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it. Even knowing that it was hopeless, I just tried to hold on.

Powerfull stuff there..

I bought Hostile Waters on GOG. I’ll stick one leg outside, Hokey Cokey stylee.

P.

And about BobJustBob’s comment, what he might be trying to say is that yes, GTA 4 is a 10, but Saints Row only got an 8 BECAUSE of its advertising budget…? If so then that’s what I think

Take something like Quake 3, or Trackmania that’s just inherently fun to play almost indefinitely and then imagine sticking in a story cutscene between each match / race. It would be absurd. Juxtaposing gameplay and cutscenes is absurd! That games can or should tell stories is not obvious at all.

Someone made a minigolf course that told the story of his Vietnam tour of duty, just to put it in perspective. Stories in games aren’t any different from that. Maybe they can tell stories, but people sure haven’t discovered how yet

Gamastura article

The strained mess of a relationship between patent/copyright practices and software/videogames could be one of the future talking points in some Sunday Papers, although I haven’t found any particularly engaging articles about it lately. That Gamasutra one is worth reading in its entirety, though.

Wow, care to expand on that? I haven’t played Saints Row 2, only the first one, but I found it to be inferior to GTA 4 and 3.