Well, it appears that gaming’s most open secret is finally confirmed proper-like. Bioware KOTOR (+300 years) MMO, The Old Republic, has been announced today. There’s plenty more screens on the site and I’ll lob the press release beneath the cut, but this is really the sort of thing which makes me think creating an RPS code where if we print rumours and use a certain code word (”Tartan”) it means we know this rumour is totally true and you shouldn’t even consider any other possibilities. Less cynically, they’ll be more theorising around it in the next few days – and I suspect more than a little in the comments thread. Until then, examine the press release or devour all the info on their site to feed your own theories.
LUCASARTS AND BIOWARE REVEAL STAR WARS: THE OLD REPUBLIC
OCTOBER 21, SAN FRANCISCO – LucasArts and BioWare™, a division of Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ: ERTS), today announced the development of Star Wars®: The Old Republic™, a story-driven massively multiplayer online PC game set in the timeframe of the Star Wars®: Knights of the Old Republic™ franchise. Star Wars: The Old Republic, being developed and published by BioWare and LucasArts, represents an innovative approach to interactive entertainment, featuring immersive storytelling, dynamic combat and intelligent companion characters.In Star Wars: The Old Republic, players will explore an age thousands of years before the rise of Darth Vader when war between the Old Republic and the Sith Empire divides the galaxy. Players can choose to play as Jedi, Sith, or a variety of other classic Star Wars roles, defining their personal story and determining their path down the light or dark side of the Force. Along the way, players will befriend courageous companions who will fight at their side or possibly betray them, based on the players’ actions. Players can also choose to team up with friends to battle enemies and overcome incredible challenges using dynamic Star Wars combat.
“Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is the most critically acclaimed Star Wars game in LucasArts history and a preeminent example of our company’s interactive storytelling heritage,” said Darrell Rodriguez, President of LucasArts. “For a long time, we’ve wanted to return to the franchise in a grand way, and we felt that the best setting for it was an online world that would allow millions of people to participate in the experience together. We knew that the developer capable of working with us to deliver an engrossing story with a fully-realized online world was BioWare.”
“Traditionally, massively multiplayer online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars – combat, exploration and character progression,” said Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder and General Manager/CEO of BioWare and General Manager/Vice President of Electronic Arts Inc., “In Star Wars: The Old Republic, we’re fusing BioWare’s heritage of critically-acclaimed storytelling with the amazing pedigree of Lucasfilm and LucasArts, and adding a brand-new fourth pillar to the equation – story. At the same time, we will still deliver all the fun features and activities that fans have come to expect in a triple-A massively multiplayer online game. To top it all off, Star Wars: The Old Republic is set in a very exciting, dynamic period in the Star Wars universe.”
Added Dr. Greg Zeschuk, Co-Founder and Vice President Development Operations, BioWare and Vice President, Electronic Arts Inc., “Star Wars: The Old Republic is set roughly 300 years after the events of Knights of the Old Republic, a timeframe that is completely unexplored in the lore. BioWare has been able to add to the Star Wars history in developing the game’s story and has created an overarching narrative that players can enjoy, regardless of their play style. Our goal is to offer players an emotionally rewarding experience that combines the traditional elements of MMO gameplay with innovations in story and character development.”
Additional details on Star Wars: The Old Republic features, gameplay and release date will be announced at a later time. For more information about Star Wars: The Old Republic and to sign up for future product updates, please visit www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com.
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It’d be tempting to create and account just so you could accost total strangers, tell them that my sister was raped and has became pregnant, then ask them to decide if my sister should have an abortion or not.
I think I agree with Bobsy about the story arcs that games produce by themselves through the players. EVE is a fine example of this and though Jim reckons the majority of Dev’s out there ignore EVE it is hard to imagine that with such a game, rich and gripping stories have emerged purely from the player base.
SW:TOR (what a crap acronym) however seems to me that it would be more or less single player story driven, with a plot ready for you to go through. Albeit in several different paths but I would say with 1 inevitable conclusion so that the player base is kept on the same path for interaction reasons. It would be silly to have a KOTOR style game in an MMO if some people ended up doing one thing and others did something completly different , the whole MMO universe would then have 5000+ very important story arcs.
Oh, and Wookieepedia sounds revolting. Gah. No. Just no.
The thing with Eve is that although there is, technically, a story (i.e. the friction/conflict between the different factions), it’s mostly just wallpaper – it doesn’t really contribute to a great deal to the player experience (after the first couple of weeks anyway)
A prime example of this is the pretty much any group (Squad/Corp/Alliance/whatever) will be comprised of players from multiple factions – factions that are supposed to be enemies (according to the story).
People still like Star Wars? I thought Lucasarts had managed to finally get rid of their last 2 fans.
A multiplayer game with a storyline?
MUAHAHAHAHA.. what is that? cutscenes in my quake arena?
Ergates: That’s not the story in Eve. that’s just the backdrop, and pretty irrelavent. The story, the plot, is the constant interfaction rivalry, the player-owned systems, the great wars between corporate empires, the small-time businesspeople getting caught in the middle, the backstabbing, assassinations, political rivalries and military arms races.
I’ve played EVE quite a lot, I even played the beta, but I don’t get why you guys think it’s that different from any other MMOs
No it doesn’t have classes but the game is still just about grinding for better stuff, except at a slower pace. Yes there’s some interesting player interaction mechanics, but they don’t work that well in practice.
The player driven economy is neat, but it doesn’t have much of an impact on the game. There’s so much abundance that you can’t really manipulate the economy, so for most players it doesn’t make a difference. It could just as well be NPC based
Corporation wars are nice in theory but the game just can’t handle them. If you think getting lagged out for two hours and then being dead is a game that works then you’re wrong.
Emphasizing player interaction is the future of MMOs, but EVE really doesn’t do it all that much better.
Bobsy – that’s what I was aiming at – I just used the word ’story’ to refer to the bit that CCP provides, rather than the bit that actually matters.
Anyone have insider info on who the chick is who you sleep with and get betrayed by in this one?
Forgot that it’s on one server… that’s a big deal of course but it wouldn’t work for WoW-likes. Works well when you can make a universe that’s infinite in size
Quietly confident that they are going to make a great game, I would quite like to see some Sith vs Jedi pvp action in there but we shall see what they come up with in a couple of years.
Tell that to the 160-man battle we had on Saturday night.
Needless to say, Teo, I think you are entirely wrong. While Eve includes grind and PvE elements, the player interactions are the most interesting aspect of the game, and they do have a massive impact on the game world. The wars, the scams, the politics, and my five year play time attest to that.
It’s flawed, of course, utterly broken in some ways, but it’s still the closest that MMO’s have come to actually fulfilling the “persistent world” promise.
Also this.
I hope it’s rubbish. I really do. Because I can’t play this and WoW at the same time. I need *some* sleep…
It depends what you want from your story, I suppose. If you want a classic “seven stories” narrative then no, Eve’s players probably aren’t going to provide it, but if you’re willing to look at it in terms of the trials and tribulations of groups of people then there are some fantastic stories out there. My own corporation has had some fantastic adventures thanks to Eve’s player-base, even if they’re not classic stories.
Griiiiiiindfest! Searching for gameplay!
I have no doubt that this will simply be the bog-standard WoW template (with a few largely insignificant differences) but with Star Wars decoration.
Meh!
@Ergates: Well that’s what I’m getting at – the two shouldn’t be seperated. Just because it happens live rather was pre-written then implemented makes it no less relavent. Eve’s ‘live’ story is actually in many ways superior to anything written, scripted and acted out by Blizzard or Cryptic employees.
sorry to be an ass but wouldn’t you say ‘an’ MMO ? I always have..
I would rather this just be single player.
Christ alive, a developer with a long and distinguished tradition in single player RPGs tries to try genre which could definitely use a fresh perspective, and what’s the reaction?
“How dare they be different! I hate it!”
Yeah, started Meh-ing when they got to the 4th Pillar crap. I dont play MMO’s to enjoy a set storyline, and the fear is that emphasis on the story might slow down the game.
Hell, I can’t put my thoughts into words properly. Should Storyline be its own ‘Pillar’, or should it facilitate the other three? Am I talking bollocks?
@ Dante: Haven’t you realised yet that the good people of gaming want radical change and no change at all at the exact same time?
@AbyssUK
Maybe they are using a Yhatzee inspired pronunciation, which I guess would be muhmo for the first three letters, rather than em-em-oh.
I must admit I’m not sure why there is such excitement over this. I was rather disappointed with KoToR, which I only played and completed for the first time this year, because (a) I saw the big surprise coming a mile off and (b) couldn’t complete any of the sidekicks’ quest due to bugs (http://swforums.bioware.com/myviewtopic.html?topic=645367&forum=76). Even Vampire: Bloodlines wasn’t that broken.
I mean, we’ve already had a Star Wars-themed MMO, and that didn’t appear to do too well, because everyone wanted to be a Jedi, until everyone wasa Jedi, at which point it got silly. And I realise I may lose any geek credentials I possess, but {small voice}the extended Star Wars universe really isn’t that interesting{/small voice}.
P.
@Bobsy: You do realise we’re actually agreeing with each other, right?
Look, I’m all for player narratives as opposed to scripted narratives. I don’t think scripted narratives belong in games
Stories of what you did in games are much more powerful than someone sticking a movie or a book in your face while you’re playing a game. Even Dwarf Fortress is more powerful than that (I shouldn’t say ‘even’). Dwarf Fortress gives birth to the most amazing stories as long as you’re willing to fill in some of the blanks with your imagination.
Aren’t games better that way? Having a 1 million polygon character model doesn’t make him more real to me, it’s more like the opposite. Having something more abstract is better for your imagination and games are about imagination and not reality
Anyway, that was a tangent. I think the stories of what players do in EVE are great! It’s much like the older MMOs like UO where you could just do more stuff to other players. 180 man battle, great! The scope of the game encourages battles much larger than that and they’re broken.
Okay, so that doesn’t matter to you because you can still have your 180 man battle and love it and you wish more MMOs provided experiences like that. I can’t really argue with that
All MMOs still suffer from one fundamental problem though: the reason that most people keep playing is that they get invested in stuff and start caring, but to get to that point you have to put in an injustifiable amount of time into the game. That time that you put in is what makes you invested, and it’s a waste of anyone’s life
No one should ever grind for shit EVER
@ Paul Moloney:
“And I realise I may lose any geek credentials I possess, but {small voice}the extended Star Wars universe really isn’t that interesting{/small voice}.”
What I’d say based on stuff I’ve read(like on the internet, rather than actual books)/played/etc, is that there’s enough interesting stuff that is quite good. There’s too much stuff out there for it not to have its fair share of utter garbage but I reckon there’s lots to work with.
I don’t agree that scripted narratives don’t belong in games.
Both scripted and unscripted stories/play/whatever have their place, and the games world would be a poorer place without them.
We’re in serious danger of entering into a Ludology vs Naratology debate here, and if that happens someone will say “Mimesis” and all hell will break loose!
That’s too subjective to be an argument against MMOs. Most MMO players would argue that this is a reason why they find the games so rewarding. The investment I’ve made in my Eve corporation has certainly been one of the most rewarding game experiences of my life. The same was true of running a Quake III clan, a game which had no grind at all.
Jim Rossignol: “While Eve includes grind and PvE elements, the player interactions are the most interesting aspect of the game, and they do have a massive impact on the game world. The wars, the scams, the politics, and my five year play time attest to that.
It’s flawed, of course, utterly broken in some ways, but it’s still the closest that MMO’s have come to actually fulfilling the “persistent world” promise.”
I’m in the odd position of not thinking EVE is very good, but agreeing with you about it’s promise. In my couple of months in EVE (NPC corp then EVE university) I saw the potential for everything you say, but none of it ever actually happened to me.
I didn’t get involved in any corp politics, because I’m not a corp bigwig and probably wouldn’t be for at least a year. The famous Guiding Hand Social Club scam, possibly the coolest thing ever to happen in gaming, involved maybe 20 people out of maybe 200000 subscribers — you had a 1 in 10000 chance of being involved that. And the 0.0 sandbox corps (where the “emergent story” stuff is likeliest to happen) mostly ask for 5 or 10 million skill points, sometimes 20 million, just to join at the bottom of the heap.
And so it seems to me that EVE is a great big machine that grinds out some interesting stories, including one or two per year which are worth writing up for a gaming mag. But most people are very small cogs in that very big machine, toiling away, rubbing one or two adjacent cogs. Maybe 1-10% are making things happen on a regular basis.
As for fleet battles, they have the potential to be thrilling and fascinating. I heard the blood pounding in my ears on my first few outings as a tackler, and I saw some cool tactical manoeuvres like warping hidden reserves into a fight once the enemy fleet controller had called targets and committed his people. But I waited hours for those blood pumping moments — I’ve been in a fleet that spent two and a quarter hours forming up as vital members went off to walk the dog or whatever. And only a fraction of players in EVE can be the FC to get the full joy of the tactics.
These seem to be fundamental, intrinsic problems of MMORPGs as compared to singleplayer RPGs. Most people can’t be in charge, so their tactical itches will go unscratched. Most people can’t change the world, even locally, so their yearnings for epic story go unfulfilled. Most people don’t want to play for the same two hour slot on a Saturday afternoon, so they can’t form a balanced group in a game that favours specific mixes of tank/damage/heal/scout/ crowd control etc without lots of waiting.
I don’t think the big open sandbox of EVE is any sort of solution to this problem. A solution is more likely to come from fiendishly clever use of instancing to let world-changing stories play out for more than 50 people, from game mechanics that make ad hoc character mixes viable in combat, and from radically improved matchmaking between players.
@ Ian
The odd think is, Bioware are actually offering radical change (KOTOR MMO), evolutionary change (Mass Effect) and back to your roots retro-ness (Dragon Age) all at the same time.
And you know what? They’re just getting flack for all three, sometimes I wonder why they bother.
@ Morte, you might be right, but I do think you under-estimate just how many people get involved in the interesting bits of Eve.
I think the crucial problem with Eve is that the difficult, messy game world clouds the principles that actually make it interesting as a sandbox. I don’t think the game itself is a solution to the problems of MMOs – because it’s ludicrously inaccessible – but I do think it points the way to a game where player-interaction powers the events of the world, rather than any kind of developer-designed event.
The player-driven events in games have always had far more value for me than any created by developers, except perhaps the very best single player experiences.
Garrett: d20 no longer exists, it’s all 4th Edition now, so a rule set change seems likely.
SW:TOR is a crap acronym, I propose adding another O, making it SWO:TOR (pronounced swohtor)
I’m not going to make any comment on the game itself as there is too little information to make any assumptions as yet.
Whilst Eve certainly isn’t the easiest game to get into, it’s a mistake to think you have to be involved at the highest level to get anything out.
The Corp I was in was relatively small Eve wise (Statecorp ftw!), and certainly didn’t have any entry requirements (I joined within days of starting Eve). We were still involved in some large conflicts. Fleet battles don’t have to be 150+ ships large to be fun either – some of the best times I had were ragging around enemy territory with a small group in small ships.
I still miss it sometimes – but the constant state of war just ground me down.
Dante: You make an interesting point there actually. I don’t envy developers much.
EDIT: A MMO is actually grammatically right. An MMO is what people tend to use because it’s easier to pronounce. For once, I went with the correct thing rather than the fun thing.
KG
Setting it in that time period goes some way of solving the ‘everyone wants to be Jedi’ quandry I guess.
Fingers crossed it is going to be something other than the standard point and click snorefest.
@morte
I think you just described the problem with life in general. Eve emulates life and so becomes a chore for the majority, the fun is where and what you make of it.
I think there’s lie propagated by fiction, whereby the best stories and most fullfilling ones are where they supposedly change or save the world. The most important part of any of those journeys is not that the person saved the world, it is that individuals journey. People dont want to change the world they just want to feel that they are in control of theirs and be part of an adventure.
The trouble with all this fiction is it raises expectations and no ones happy unless they are responsble for it all or have what the other person has.
I’m excited about this, but I just thought this morning, I would have been even more excited about a Mass Effect MMO. Totally independent IP, no pre-conceived notions with it, huge gameworld to expand with, it’d be excellent!
Jim: “I do think it points the way to a game where player-interaction powers the events of the world, rather than any kind of developer-designed event.”
Yes, that is certainly a desirable end. IMHO EVE demonstrates the desirability of that end more than it provides guidance as to how it might be achieved.
Getting back on topic, I can’t imagine Bioware (who brought us a werewolf lair that was empty of werewolves until an NPC gave you a quest to kill them) ever letting the players do more than jump through hoops. The only question is whether the hoops will be arranged in a mandatory order or you’ll get to choose your path through them.
It’s a good job pen and paper RPGs still exist…
“Most MMO players would argue that this is a reason why they find the games so rewarding. The investment I’ve made in my Eve corporation has certainly been one of the most rewarding game experiences of my life. The same was true of running a Quake III clan, a game which had no grind at all.”
I don’t think getting invested in something like a clan or a guild is the same thing as getting invested in the game itself.
Look, there are people who just do mining in EVE. Mining is a mind numbing exercise. I knew people who sat and mined every free moment they had. The reason they cared so much about their exhumers, or whatever they were flying, was that they had put so much time into getting them.
I’m sure they got a lot of satisfaction out of their exhumers, but… how much time did they waste sitting around and clicking a few hotkeys every 180 seconds? People sit for YEARS doing that. Just imagine what they could’ve done with that time. If they had read books during 1/4 of that time I promise you that it would’ve enriched their life a whole lot more.
Yes, they’re happy mining, but that’s because they don’t know any better. They get some kind of enjoyment out of it and all they have to do is press a button. It’s easy! What they get out of it in relation to how much time they put into it is horrible though. I know very well that people play MMOs in a wide variety of ways but I do know that too many people sit around for hours and hours and hours on end doing mind numbing stuff just to get virtual rewards, be it ore or gold. Some people just raid in WoW and love it, but too many people just waste their lives and I think it’s pretty depressing and a lot of games are designed to facilitate it
@Morte I agree that EVE isn’t a solution but I still think player interaction, it could be competitive or collaborative, is the future. The things people love in MMOs is what they did with other players. Doing a 40 man raid will always be more powerful than getting your own not-so-personal narrative. If BioWare think they can make MMOs about stories I think they’re sorely mistaken.
I think stories are a hard fit in normal games, and multiplayer games emphasize even more what makes them a hard fit in single player games. If they were making Counter-Strike 2 with a story I wouldn’t care either
@Kieron My mother toungue isn’t English and you (PCG staffers) bascially taught me English (I started reading it when I was 12 and barely knew a word!) but I think you’re wrong :p
To my knowledge the article is determined by the pronunciation and not the spelling. For example “a yellow car” even though ‘y’ is a vowel
..
found a link!
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/hotel
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/anma
“Some people just raid in WoW and love it, but too many people just waste their lives and I think it’s pretty depressing and a lot of games are designed to facilitate it”
And now you’re arguing that games companies should aim to produce product which is morally and socially benevolent rather than that which makes the most money. Ultimately people still make the choice to play, so it can’t be that horrific.
I think theres potential for an action MMO, something that mixes the moment to moment gameplay of something more like fable, with the larger sense of ‘world’ that you get in typical MMOs.
Because its Bioware, I’ll keep my eye on this, but because its Bioware, I’ll maintain a healthy level scepticism and optimism.
It seems to me that people are discussing the difference between a story (which Bioware are generally good at) and a narrative (which MMOs – Eve being a prime example – are generally good at).
I added that facilitating part later Lu-Tze
Maybe I shouldn’t have =/
I don’t dislike the games for existing, I’m not into morals, but so many people just wasting so much time honestly makes me sad when I think about it
Yeah, there are two ways of doing it, but just about everyone goes with pronunciation-based. Which leads to silly situations, but that’s English all over.
“Buy a house in an hour.”
US: An herb garden
UK: A herb garden
(Sorry Bioware, your MMO is less interesting than grammar nerdery)
It’s is a saddening thought that people could be doing “more” with their lives, and once you’ve killed mainstream television i’ll join your crusade against MMOs.
What we need to do is tie that mechanic of wanting to do some simple repetitive task for some virtual bar of gold into finding a cure for cancer or something. Like that image tag guessing game did.
You could argue that, yes. Let’s go with it, let’s say jedi are no more powerful than other classes (roughly speaking).
That still doesn’t stop 98% of the player base from wanting to play jedi. Everyone wants a lightsaber, that’s just how it is. One of the fundamental forces of nature. It’s like gravity, people are attracted to lightsabers. So even if jedi are only slightly more powerful than everyone else, we’ll *still* end up with a galaxy populated entirely by jedi. True, they may not be overpowered jedi, but it’ll still look a bit repetetive, won’t it? ;)
Lu-Tze
I haven’t watched TV in 18 months =)