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	<title>Comments on: Deux Ex 3: Inflammatory Hit-Chasing Quote Special</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:44:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: get real</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-163700</link>
		<dc:creator>get real</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-163700</guid>
		<description>For fans of DX, please get real. There is not allot that developer can do to bring the same enthusiasm players had for DX, not because they don’t know how to make the game, but because DX1 was something really revolutionary compared to other PC FPS games in that time. Askign them to achieve something similar in such of capable gaming industry today, is as asking the player if he would want to spend $150 on the copy of DX3…

I think fans are really asking for something to bring the old feelings back, and not really looking into the game specifications objectively. In another words, most fans across web don’t know what they want the DX3 to do other then &quot;mesmerize me&quot;

Certainly the DX2 was a  dud in terms of game play, but that was clearly due to skinning the game engine down to the two thumbs controls. As long as DX3 is developed primarily for PC and not for console, the game has its potential regardless of trivial details about how some features were implemented in DX1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For fans of DX, please get real. There is not allot that developer can do to bring the same enthusiasm players had for DX, not because they don’t know how to make the game, but because DX1 was something really revolutionary compared to other PC FPS games in that time. Askign them to achieve something similar in such of capable gaming industry today, is as asking the player if he would want to spend $150 on the copy of DX3…</p>
<p>I think fans are really asking for something to bring the old feelings back, and not really looking into the game specifications objectively. In another words, most fans across web don’t know what they want the DX3 to do other then &#8220;mesmerize me&#8221;</p>
<p>Certainly the DX2 was a  dud in terms of game play, but that was clearly due to skinning the game engine down to the two thumbs controls. As long as DX3 is developed primarily for PC and not for console, the game has its potential regardless of trivial details about how some features were implemented in DX1.</p>
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		<title>By: LatwPIAT</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-109391</link>
		<dc:creator>LatwPIAT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-109391</guid>
		<description>One of the things I notice is the notion that he claims Deus Ex was too slow. Heck no, Deus Ex was not &quot;too slow&quot; if I have any complaint, it&#039;s that Deus Ex is a &quot;tad bit too long.&quot; The game was not too slow. Most areas had plenty of enemies, or interactivity of some sort. The game only becomes to slow if all you play for is the combat or want to play confrontational but build your character otherwise.

As for regenerating health, the concept is great for games where the point only to have firefights, or the focus in on avoiding all forms of combat. (Such as portal) But in games where one of the primary play styles is stealth, it doesn&#039;t work, because you&#039;re not forced to focus on avoiding confrontations. You can take a risk, because it&#039;s worth it.

Additionally, Deus Ex always made the player focus on resource management, You couldn&#039;t fit tons of weapons in your inventroy, so you had to choose. You could of course take both the flamethrower, the rocket launcher, the Assault Rifle, the Assault Shotgun, the Sniper Rifle and the Knife, but anyone who has played Deus Ex will notice I now have no room for Lockpicsk, Multitool, Medkits, the various forms of grenades or any form of food. Heck, I have to drop my Sniper Rifle just to complete various mission objectives. Alternativley, I could stock up on grenades, lockpicks, multitools, medkits, stealth camo, ballistics armor, a stun stick, a pack of cigarettes and a Stealth Pistol, but I now have no heavy weapons cappabilities. If I meet a Delta/3 sentry robot, I better hope my grenades bounce propperly, because right now I have no heavy firepower. (Unless I circle-strafe around with SABOT shells, but those are &lt;i&gt;rare.&lt;/i&gt;)
By removing these elements, the game doesn&#039;t feel the same. Removing ammo types and inventory management has some interesting effects on Invisible War, and I doubt anyone wants a repetition of the &lt;b&gt;mass-cancellation&lt;/b&gt; of pre-orders that game brought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the things I notice is the notion that he claims Deus Ex was too slow. Heck no, Deus Ex was not &#8220;too slow&#8221; if I have any complaint, it&#8217;s that Deus Ex is a &#8220;tad bit too long.&#8221; The game was not too slow. Most areas had plenty of enemies, or interactivity of some sort. The game only becomes to slow if all you play for is the combat or want to play confrontational but build your character otherwise.</p>
<p>As for regenerating health, the concept is great for games where the point only to have firefights, or the focus in on avoiding all forms of combat. (Such as portal) But in games where one of the primary play styles is stealth, it doesn&#8217;t work, because you&#8217;re not forced to focus on avoiding confrontations. You can take a risk, because it&#8217;s worth it.</p>
<p>Additionally, Deus Ex always made the player focus on resource management, You couldn&#8217;t fit tons of weapons in your inventroy, so you had to choose. You could of course take both the flamethrower, the rocket launcher, the Assault Rifle, the Assault Shotgun, the Sniper Rifle and the Knife, but anyone who has played Deus Ex will notice I now have no room for Lockpicsk, Multitool, Medkits, the various forms of grenades or any form of food. Heck, I have to drop my Sniper Rifle just to complete various mission objectives. Alternativley, I could stock up on grenades, lockpicks, multitools, medkits, stealth camo, ballistics armor, a stun stick, a pack of cigarettes and a Stealth Pistol, but I now have no heavy weapons cappabilities. If I meet a Delta/3 sentry robot, I better hope my grenades bounce propperly, because right now I have no heavy firepower. (Unless I circle-strafe around with SABOT shells, but those are <i>rare.</i>)<br />
By removing these elements, the game doesn&#8217;t feel the same. Removing ammo types and inventory management has some interesting effects on Invisible War, and I doubt anyone wants a repetition of the <b>mass-cancellation</b> of pre-orders that game brought.</p>
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		<title>By: Verner</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-107734</link>
		<dc:creator>Verner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 05:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-107734</guid>
		<description>I really, really, hope that &lt;b&gt;THE BIG METAL ARMS THAT REPLACE YOUR REAL ONES&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;, removing about &lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;five feet&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt; of nerves.

&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;Leave their fucking mark on you.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;

I mean, the No Augmented People signs are rather... telling.&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really, really, hope that <b>THE BIG METAL ARMS THAT REPLACE YOUR REAL ONES</b><b>, removing about </b><b>five feet</b><b> of nerves.</p>
<p></b><b>Leave their fucking mark on you.</b><b></p>
<p>I mean, the No Augmented People signs are rather&#8230; telling.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Ixtab</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-106038</link>
		<dc:creator>Ixtab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-106038</guid>
		<description>Everyone fighting one way or another over the Health-Regen issue, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s really fair to say a certain mechanic is ALWAYS a bad idea, sure health-regen has been done abysmally in lots of games but I&#039;m willing to give this a try because it could be done well. I don&#039;t want to miss out on a good game merely because I got so wound up about a single mechanic.

With most games with medkits I end up with so many I don&#039;t know what to do with them all, and as a consequence it&#039;s like auto-regen but I can heal everything in an instance rather than waiting in cover. The mechanic as a concept isn&#039;t the problem really, it&#039;s how they chose to implement it.

If you can take cover in the middle of the fight to heal it probably makes all the fights too easy, if however it&#039;s only really effective in a totally calm moment then it shouldn&#039;t really affect the difficulty of the fights. Also you could make health regen so slow that most people will get fed up and use medkits but those in dire need and without any medkits will spend that 5 minutes in hiding to get enough health to survive the next encounter without having to reload and try again.

tl;dr: We don&#039;t really have enough information yet to decide if it&#039;s a good thing or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone fighting one way or another over the Health-Regen issue, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s really fair to say a certain mechanic is ALWAYS a bad idea, sure health-regen has been done abysmally in lots of games but I&#8217;m willing to give this a try because it could be done well. I don&#8217;t want to miss out on a good game merely because I got so wound up about a single mechanic.</p>
<p>With most games with medkits I end up with so many I don&#8217;t know what to do with them all, and as a consequence it&#8217;s like auto-regen but I can heal everything in an instance rather than waiting in cover. The mechanic as a concept isn&#8217;t the problem really, it&#8217;s how they chose to implement it.</p>
<p>If you can take cover in the middle of the fight to heal it probably makes all the fights too easy, if however it&#8217;s only really effective in a totally calm moment then it shouldn&#8217;t really affect the difficulty of the fights. Also you could make health regen so slow that most people will get fed up and use medkits but those in dire need and without any medkits will spend that 5 minutes in hiding to get enough health to survive the next encounter without having to reload and try again.</p>
<p>tl;dr: We don&#8217;t really have enough information yet to decide if it&#8217;s a good thing or not.</p>
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		<title>By: look out! Ninjas!</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105856</link>
		<dc:creator>look out! Ninjas!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 03:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105856</guid>
		<description>Auto-healing will kill the balance of Deus Ex 1. But this isn&#039;t Deus Ex 1. Don&#039;t forget that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Auto-healing will kill the balance of Deus Ex 1. But this isn&#8217;t Deus Ex 1. Don&#8217;t forget that.</p>
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		<title>By: Rath</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105523</link>
		<dc:creator>Rath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105523</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&quot;There weren&#039;t enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;


I do not trust this man, for he speaks lies. How he can differentiate between a simulation and a game experience is beyond my comprehension, as I would judge those to be the same thing, and in Deus Ex we had a game experience that &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; a simulation, one of of being a bloody awesome super-agent. 

&lt;b&gt;Memorable moments in Deus Ex:&lt;/b&gt;

- Over-hearing all the conversations between various NPCs throughout the game, like the NSF troopers on Liberty Island discussing Gunther and the Cult Of The Machine, and the guy from Alabama complaining about the &quot;punk with the tattooed forehead&quot;. 

- Listening in on Simons&#039; interrogation of the NSF prisoners. 

- Discovering that you can kill Navarre on the 747 without breaking the flow of the game, and that characters will interact accordingly with you. 

- The MiBs&#039; raiding the apartment and the choice you make about how it plays out. 

- Waking up in the cell and being contacted by Daedalus. 

- First time you realise the MJ12 facility was underneath UNATCO the whole time. 

- Flatlander Woman. 

- Laputan Machine. 

- The helicopter missiles destroying the door in the Hong Kong landing pad. 

- Dealing with Maggie Chow and destroying the universal constructor underneath Versalife. 

- Condemning the super-freighter to destruction, and subsequent exit from same. 

- The phone message from Icarus in Paris. 

- Watching the reactivated X-51 bots duke it out with the MJ12 bots at Vandenberg. 

- The merging of Daedalus and Icarus into Helios. 

- The fight with Walton Simons at the Ocean Lab. 

- Jocks&#039; death, if you let it happen. 

- The 3 different endings are all memorable in their own ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>&#8220;There weren&#8217;t enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>I do not trust this man, for he speaks lies. How he can differentiate between a simulation and a game experience is beyond my comprehension, as I would judge those to be the same thing, and in Deus Ex we had a game experience that <i>was</i> a simulation, one of of being a bloody awesome super-agent. </p>
<p><b>Memorable moments in Deus Ex:</b></p>
<p>- Over-hearing all the conversations between various NPCs throughout the game, like the NSF troopers on Liberty Island discussing Gunther and the Cult Of The Machine, and the guy from Alabama complaining about the &#8220;punk with the tattooed forehead&#8221;. </p>
<p>- Listening in on Simons&#8217; interrogation of the NSF prisoners. </p>
<p>- Discovering that you can kill Navarre on the 747 without breaking the flow of the game, and that characters will interact accordingly with you. </p>
<p>- The MiBs&#8217; raiding the apartment and the choice you make about how it plays out. </p>
<p>- Waking up in the cell and being contacted by Daedalus. </p>
<p>- First time you realise the MJ12 facility was underneath UNATCO the whole time. </p>
<p>- Flatlander Woman. </p>
<p>- Laputan Machine. </p>
<p>- The helicopter missiles destroying the door in the Hong Kong landing pad. </p>
<p>- Dealing with Maggie Chow and destroying the universal constructor underneath Versalife. </p>
<p>- Condemning the super-freighter to destruction, and subsequent exit from same. </p>
<p>- The phone message from Icarus in Paris. </p>
<p>- Watching the reactivated X-51 bots duke it out with the MJ12 bots at Vandenberg. </p>
<p>- The merging of Daedalus and Icarus into Helios. </p>
<p>- The fight with Walton Simons at the Ocean Lab. </p>
<p>- Jocks&#8217; death, if you let it happen. </p>
<p>- The 3 different endings are all memorable in their own ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Ergates</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105509</link>
		<dc:creator>Ergates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105509</guid>
		<description>In that kind of situation, I&#039;ve picked B many a time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In that kind of situation, I&#8217;ve picked B many a time.</p>
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		<title>By: eyemessiah</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105467</link>
		<dc:creator>eyemessiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105467</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m fine with regen if the fights are still tuned for a level of challenge appropriate to the difficulty setting.  Losing kits kills one specific resource management challenge but gaming has no shortage of resource management challenges, so I&#039;m not too worried about this.

I was interested to read the Gorgeras&#039;s discussion about about &quot;false choices&quot; above,

&quot;Now we have games where you can choose path A or B, oh but A has a diamond-encrusted rocket-skateboard at the start and a pimp cup at the end. B has squat, but you have to play it a certain way to get past hundreds of instant-death situations. It caters for people that want reward for little effort and for people who like frugal challenges. But who in their right mind would choose B when A is even on offer?&quot;

People who enjoy B type challenges more than they enjoy A type challenges.

It doesn&#039;t seem like a false choice unless B is genuinely unfun, in which case the B path was just a simple waste of development time.

I sort of get the impression that you are worried that people who think they like B more than A could coerced into taking the A path for some reason.  This just seems too convoluted to me to be a real concern.  Won&#039;t people just take the path that appeals to them the most?  Even if they alternate challenges are poorly sign posted B gamers that pick the A path by mistake can presumably just pop a quickload and change direction.

IMHO, if everyone picks A over B that just means that when it comes down to it no-one really likes B gameplay.  Maybe they sort of &lt;i&gt; think &lt;/i&gt; they like B more than A, or think that they &lt;i&gt; should&lt;/i&gt; like B more than A, but if they consistently pick A paths over B paths then I don&#039;t think   the A paths are really to blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m fine with regen if the fights are still tuned for a level of challenge appropriate to the difficulty setting.  Losing kits kills one specific resource management challenge but gaming has no shortage of resource management challenges, so I&#8217;m not too worried about this.</p>
<p>I was interested to read the Gorgeras&#8217;s discussion about about &#8220;false choices&#8221; above,</p>
<p>&#8220;Now we have games where you can choose path A or B, oh but A has a diamond-encrusted rocket-skateboard at the start and a pimp cup at the end. B has squat, but you have to play it a certain way to get past hundreds of instant-death situations. It caters for people that want reward for little effort and for people who like frugal challenges. But who in their right mind would choose B when A is even on offer?&#8221;</p>
<p>People who enjoy B type challenges more than they enjoy A type challenges.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t seem like a false choice unless B is genuinely unfun, in which case the B path was just a simple waste of development time.</p>
<p>I sort of get the impression that you are worried that people who think they like B more than A could coerced into taking the A path for some reason.  This just seems too convoluted to me to be a real concern.  Won&#8217;t people just take the path that appeals to them the most?  Even if they alternate challenges are poorly sign posted B gamers that pick the A path by mistake can presumably just pop a quickload and change direction.</p>
<p>IMHO, if everyone picks A over B that just means that when it comes down to it no-one really likes B gameplay.  Maybe they sort of <i> think </i> they like B more than A, or think that they <i> should</i> like B more than A, but if they consistently pick A paths over B paths then I don&#8217;t think   the A paths are really to blame.</p>
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		<title>By: Ergates</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105421</link>
		<dc:creator>Ergates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105421</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;What’s up with all the “Angry Internet Man” crap ?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
You kind of answered your own question there....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;What’s up with all the “Angry Internet Man” crap ?&#8221;</i><br />
You kind of answered your own question there&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: toranaga</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105375</link>
		<dc:creator>toranaga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105375</guid>
		<description>fair enough</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fair enough</p>
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		<title>By: Kieron Gillen</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105355</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieron Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105355</guid>
		<description>Toranaga: I did say that&#039;s part of the reason why no-one picked up on it. But it&#039;s not the biggest part. I also note that the full article contains more than enough reason to fear for the game.

KG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toranaga: I did say that&#8217;s part of the reason why no-one picked up on it. But it&#8217;s not the biggest part. I also note that the full article contains more than enough reason to fear for the game.</p>
<p>KG</p>
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		<title>By: lumpi</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/10/23/deux-ex-3-inflammatory-hit-chasing-quote-special/comment-page-2/#comment-105354</link>
		<dc:creator>lumpi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=4497#comment-105354</guid>
		<description>I dropped EDGE a while ago. 

They&#039;re more and more doing the &quot;opposite of everything&quot; journalism, that is not just alternative (which I would like), it&#039;s inverted sensationalism.

Remember when they gave Halo 3 the &quot;Innovation&quot; award for having an online community? That wasn&#039;t anti-mainstream, that was plain trolling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dropped EDGE a while ago. </p>
<p>They&#8217;re more and more doing the &#8220;opposite of everything&#8221; journalism, that is not just alternative (which I would like), it&#8217;s inverted sensationalism.</p>
<p>Remember when they gave Halo 3 the &#8220;Innovation&#8221; award for having an online community? That wasn&#8217;t anti-mainstream, that was plain trolling.</p>
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