By Jim Rossignol on November 10th, 2008 at 10:06 am.
You probably spotted this from last week, but I wanted to reprise the story to lead into some other thoughts about The Witcher. Polish fantasy RPG The Witcher has sold 1 million copies. That’s a fair amount for a game on any format. Developers CD Projekt are rightly pleased with this, and I’m glad that this unexpected success has allowed them scope to continue and expand their RPG-building projects. The Witcher was one of those games that made me say: “I’d like to see what they do next.” I usually say that only to find that the company in question has gone bust (sorry, Troika) but it looks like that won’t be the case here.
Wired reports: “The success of The Witcher has ensured that we’ll be able to make the games we want,” said CD Projekt CEO Adam Kicinski. “The amazing response we had from the gaming community to the Enhanced Edition really reinforced that we’re on the right track with our development philosophy.”
They’ve done extremely well, I’d agree, but let’s not get too self-congratulatory about it all: The Witcher had some problems, as I found out over the past few weeks.
One thing that divides even RPS editors is how much voice acting matters in a game. Does it really make a difference to how we rate a game? Of course matters of combat mechanics and quest-structure are ultimately more important – but can such cosmetics be ignored in a game where talking is so central to the action? John and myself seem particularly riled by silly voices and mistaken enunciation. My first hours in Fallout 3 were uncomfortable thanks to cavalcade of “A TRAVELLER EH?” and other dialogue missteps, and I had to flee starting-town Megaton to be able to find myself hooked and interested in the game world. (Guess which route I took regarding that particular explosive device…)
The Witcher, of course, had no such open-world luxury. Despite the wide open sections each game presents to you, it is relatively linear, especially in the first five or so hours of play. Escaping the bad voice-acting there meant playing the Enhanced Edition and switching the language to its native Polish. I’m sure it sounded cheesy to a Polish speaker too, but it was a far less distressing experience than the English, which was fathoms below that proffered in daytime soap operas. If the Enhanced Edition accomplished anything, it was the ability to sidestep this clumsiness. It’s hard to properly quantify the difference that this made, but treating the game as a foreign language property transformed it from something intolerable, to something compelling. Once this atmosphere-exploding chatter had been dealt with, the odd lines of broken text could safely be ignored, and I was able to plunge into the game proper.
Finally engaged with The Witcher’s moody fantasy world, I was rapidly taken with it. The combat was just the right side of simplicity, and the way that quests unfolded seems to give genuine scope for decisions that belonged to me. That is good game design. There are stupid dead-ends – unexplained skill requirements for some quests, or entirely vague parameters for success in others – but they were generally passable.
Also good was the mood it struck throughout: constant undertones of desperation and nastiness. It’s my general feeling that games aren’t bleak enough – even when the subject of a game is hyper-death and battle-horror, the experience is still generally upbeat. (Valve talked, as you’ll see in a forthcoming podcast, about how Left 4 Dead’s characters had to be upbeat to avoid bumming out their players with the looming End Of World fiction it was creating.) So it was gratifying to see The Witcher be brave enough to just grind onward with grimness, and deliver a world in which traditional fantasy tropes marched alongside racism and other brutalities.
If there was one failure in this approach, it was that it made the dreary starting village area even more of a slog to get through. With one brain-lobe I’m loving the gritty game world, but in another I am getting bored and thinking “this should have lasted an hour at the most”. The sense of release when the city and the swamps beyond finally opened the game up into something broad and explorable was astonishing. At fucking last! I’d been assured that if I just got to that point then the game would start to make sense, and that I’d start to understand the enthusiasm of its fans. And I did, and it does – but that fact alone causes some raised eyebrows about CD Projekt’s “development philosophy”. If that philosophy involves ignoring the fact that the starting hours of your game are completely rubbish – with NPCs that seem mentally ill thanks to nonsensical editing and a story teetering on a terrifying precipice of plot holes – then there’s definitely some distance to go before “right track” status can be confirmed. This was a game that made be scream with frustration almost as often as it delighted me – the perpetual minefield of ambitious, problematic PC games. That it took so long to start motoring is a problem that couldn’t be fixed by the EE patch, and seemed especially pressing to the time-starved gamer of 2008.
I say this with the knowledge that CD Projekt will be able to make another game, thanks to their initial success. It’s a thumbs-aloft, gold-plated victory for the medium as we celebrate it. The Polish team now have a real chance to become a powerhouse in game development, bringing us a kind of RPG that is very rare indeed – something that encompasses inventory and stat fiddling, wide-open, consequence-filled story-telling, and actual graphical prowess. (Did everyone ignore that? The manifestation of a truly good-looking PC-only RPG?) Not only that, but it’s a game that doesn’t sit entirely within the exhausted archetypes of traditional fantasy games. There might be dwarves and elves in The Witcher’s world, but at least their engagement, and the events surrounding them, are muddled up with the kind of ugliness and inhumanity that we find in our own history. For a game rooted in fantasy scribblings, it’s taken an interesting path – picked on an author who didn’t just regurgitate D&D’s Tolkien-withering clichés, and seemingly tried to address the kinds of issues that games generally like to avoid: sex, racism, prejudice, and the trials of poverty. Yes, it’s pulp fiction, but even pulp – when good – hits the right nerves.
It’s tough to recommend The Witcher right now because there’s just so much else out there. But it is one of those interesting singularities in the world of PC gaming. It’s a gristly, meaty mess. Hard to digest but nonetheless nutritious. You’d be foolish to overlook it.
And if The Witcher’s success allows CD Projekt to continue on their journey and confirms that they’ve taken the right path, I hope they’ll also listen to criticism – of which there is plenty – and overcome the problems that face even the biggest RPGs in the business.
10/11/2008 at 10:30 Ian says:
I’ve still yet to play this because I have less time to game these days and so I tend to focus on the stuff I think I’ll really like, but hopefully I’ll be caught up on my games before the next release-slump and be able to try a few games such as The Witcher.
10/11/2008 at 10:36 Jim Rossignol says:
Yeah, it’s one for the after Christmas lull, perhaps.
10/11/2008 at 10:41 ChaosSmurf says:
I got a free copy for stabbing people at the PC Gamer Showdown. I played the first bit, enjoyed it, then completely stopped after saving the OH DEAR GOD SPOILERS witch.
Funny story, you have sex with her right in front of the little kid, it’s kinda gross.
A note on Troika, I guess you could say they did go and make a new game since half of them apparently now work on one of the unofficial patches for V:TM:B (the one not made by a bunch of nude-mod makers). Those patches change that game so much it almost is a new game.
10/11/2008 at 10:44 subedii says:
I’m usually one of those people that prefer to listen to films in their original language, but I actually didn’t mind the Witchers attempt at dialogue so much, so English did really bother me here for some reason. I thought some of the performances we’re actually quite good, although that’s pretty much a subjective thing.
More annoying for me was the lack of any emotion on the character’s faces. They’ll be making angry gestures with their fists and use agitated body language, but their faces still remain completely wooden, and that really felt awkward to me. I guess I’m used to more emotive characters by now. With Geralt it wasn’t really a problem since he seems neutral and calculating at all times. With other characters it often threw me right out.
I realise it takes a lot of work to do extra emotion for all those characters, but I think it would VASTLY improve the atmosphere and setting.
Oh and tip to new players: If you’re relatively familiar with games, I’d suggest going with Hard difficulty. Combat becomes a lot more fun when you’re having to plan your potion and oil usage, and make use of them at the right times. In normal I was finding that I never really needed to use them, so I just ended up stockpiling them.
10/11/2008 at 10:50 Pavel says:
I liked the starting village – the game got me in its tutorial already. And I liked english voice acting, which may have something to do with me being non-native english speaker. It was definitely better than czech voice acting, which made Geralt sound like he was constipated all the time. English Geralt was the right amount of bad ass IMO. And I am talking about original, nonEE version. I am looking forward to finishing EE next year very much : ).
10/11/2008 at 10:51 strangeed says:
ChaosSmurf, do you have a link to the V:TM:B project you mention? I bought it over steam a while ago, really enjoyed it but had to stop due to several game breaking bugs. Would love to pick it up again.
On the topic at hand, I am really enjoying the Witcher at the moment. I’m somewhere in the 4th Chapter, very enjoyable, even though some of the quests and texts are bizarre. They could have included a bit more fast travel too.
10/11/2008 at 10:54 AsubstanceD says:
I think you completely under rate this game. I don’t agree that its hard to recommend at the moment, although there is loads of games out at the moment there is difenatelty not something for everyone and the witcher offers something to those RPG fans that love games with really interesting characters and main story line. I really don’t think any of the games out at the moment have that, some may argue about fallout 3 on that.
10/11/2008 at 11:03 Nezz says:
Nah. Tragedy has its proper place, but mere bleakness is just the mark of an untalented artist.
10/11/2008 at 11:15 ChaosSmurf says:
@strangeed: http://www.patches-scrolls.de/vampire_bloodlines.php There’s some information on the wiki page for the game.
10/11/2008 at 11:16 James G says:
I’ve currently put the Witcher on hold while I play Fallout 3, it [The Witcher] hasn’t particularly grabbed me yet, but I’m still near the beginning.
10/11/2008 at 11:20 Iain says:
Can I look all smug now for saying all this a year ago? No? Shit…
10/11/2008 at 11:23 Dreamhacker says:
RIP Troika 1998-2005 :(
Now, lets see what CDProjekt can do!
10/11/2008 at 11:28 Tainted says:
I’m 3/4 the way through the Witcher now and I have very similar feelings to you Jim. For every moment this game makes me sit back in wonder, there’s another moment (usually when talking to somebody or running back and forth between places like a messengerboy. Or when the game crashes for no reason almost on the hour every hour…) that it makes me shout out in frustration.
It strikes me just what it is, a new developer finding their feet. If they can improve on this formula and take some of the really frustrating bits out of this game for their new game then it will be fantastic.
The best thing about the Witcher is how uncontaminated with console adaptations. It’s a PC rpg dedicated to adult PC gamers. Plenty of buttons to press, inventory managment, a detailed levelling system. It’s very refreshing, and I’m glad they’ve got their 1m sales!
Plus these are they people who bring us GOG. GO CD PROJEKT!
10/11/2008 at 11:30 cHeal says:
Well I’m not much of an RPG gamer which is probably why I quite enjoyed the opening village lead in. I thought it was nicely paced and filled with interesting characters. The end of that sections also affected me greatly, I was genuinely disturbed to wake up one day to find the village empty, it struck me in a strange way.
I don’t get enough time to play games much and I find it hard to play a game for an extended period time so after getting killed in the swamp a few times I’ve kinda left this to one side but I will get back into it. Doubt I’ll finish it as I heard it was very long, mostly bought it to support the developer to be honest, we need more developers like CD projekt.
10/11/2008 at 11:31 Kieron Gillen says:
Nezz: Care to put some meat on that argument so people can actually argue with you?
KG
10/11/2008 at 11:33 teo says:
I’m am planning on picking this up when I find it for a good price
Have been for some time
10/11/2008 at 11:33 ChaosSmurf says:
This thread made me go see what happened to Troika staff. Looks like they all moved on, to some pretty good companies too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troika_Games
When clicking through those guys, it shows how far Blizzivision’s influence spreads.
10/11/2008 at 11:35 Heliocentric says:
Thats right ness, shindlers list was shit, wasn’t it?
And the old invasion of the body snatchers were much worse than the later american one where the good guys steal a helicopter and blow up the bad guys… So much better.
10/11/2008 at 11:46 Thirith says:
Schindler’s List was anything but unrelenting bleakness.
Added to which, Heliocentric: weren’t all versions of Body Snatchers American?
10/11/2008 at 11:54 Danny says:
I really liked The Witcher. Actually, I can’t recall a better PC RPG that came out in the last couple of years. Sure, it’s a bit rough when it comes to editting and voice acting, but for me these are minor points compared to the believable world and interesting quests that the game offers.
I think it’s safe to say that it’s the only game since a long time that actually feels like a classic PC RPG (since Vampire TM: Bloodlines, like someone else mentioned already). And yes, I have played F3, Mass Effect and Oblivion. The only other game that I can think of that comes close is Mask of the Betrayer, being a superior experience compared to the original NWN2.
10/11/2008 at 11:57 toni says:
the witcher has ocar-worthy voiceacting compared to Fallout3.
and although a limited engine it was much more open-ended than say, MassEffect every pretended to be or even FarCry is with its corridors and no-impact story.
10/11/2008 at 12:00 Quirk says:
Bleakness is an attribute of the environment; tragedy describes the path of the humans within that environment. Comparing them makes little sense.
1984 is an unremittingly bleak book. Lord of the Flies is similarly bleak. They are not tragedies in any conventional sense; they drive not at the individual human condition, but at the madness of groups. I find it hard to dismiss Orwell and Golding as untalented hacks.
10/11/2008 at 12:10 Paul Moloney says:
“the one not made by a bunch of nude-mod makers”
Oh god, HIM. Yes, it’s nice having your work ripped off without either permission or even a thank you, then receiving abuse when you ask why they did so.
P.
10/11/2008 at 12:18 ChaosSmurf says:
@Paul: Have I missed something? >.>
10/11/2008 at 12:19 Bobsy says:
The reason I don’t much like Planescape: Torment is that I consider it to be over-bleak.
Not wanting to get into a semantic argument over what bleakness is, I found Torment to be one long downer – life for the characters got steadily worse and worse – and that was about it.
10/11/2008 at 12:34 Kieron Gillen says:
That’s an aesthetic preference though, Bobsy. I’m still waiting to see why bleakness is an artistic failing per se.
KG
10/11/2008 at 12:45 Thirith says:
Kieron: while I don’t think that bleakness is an artistic failing per se, I would say that most works of arts or pieces of narrative that are too exclusively one thing – only bleak, only this, only that – are less effective than if they introduced other elements. It’s a bit like music: having a loud forte fortissimo passage can be highly effective, but if the entire piece is fff then it becomes boring. If you think of King Lear, probably Shakespeare’s bleakest play, without moments of humanity and humour it would become so relentless that people would switch off. You need something to contrast the bleakness to for it to be perceived.
10/11/2008 at 12:46 Okami says:
@ ChaosSmurf:
Funny story, you have sex with her right in front of the little kid, it’s kinda gross.
They probably told the boy to go play in the other cave, while the grown ups had to talk..
10/11/2008 at 12:51 thesombrerokid says:
i feel CD Projekt will always be bellow Bioware and Bethesda, it wasn’t just the voice acting, the writing in the game was terible and collecting the cards for sleeping with the ladies was the closest i’d have felt to being a cirb crawler ever if i hadn’t desperatly tried to pretend that every female character in the game was dying to get my pants off.
that really broke the imersion for me, the gotta collect them all aspect to sleeping with women, it’s the first time i could say that maybe a game i’ve played does deserve an age rating because turning sleeping with women into a game for people who are yet to form opinions on such things will have a negative impact on thier perception of women i think. they are actually likely to sleep with women whereas they are almost certainy not going to do any of the things in fallout 3 that gained it it’s age rating.
10/11/2008 at 12:53 thesombrerokid says:
@Thirith
i aree with you there tbh.
10/11/2008 at 13:02 Optimaximal says:
Unfortunately, The Witcher is easily forgettable until you enter Vizima properly – the tutorial is overly long and lacking in choice of what to do (by design I suppose) and you’re so perplexed at what’s going on during Act 1 due to a lack of exposition about why certain things are happening and/or relevant that it’s easy to not care.
Once you enter Act 2, the plotline kicks into gear and all of the pieces of the puzzle start to slot together and the game turns, quite frankly, brilliant!
10/11/2008 at 13:06 Wallace says:
Speaking of graphical prowess, I’m running through it now (in polish) and I have to keep reminding myself that this is the Aurora engine. After the enclosed spaces of Neverwinter Nights 2, I was blown away to see The Witcher using it for the epic landscape shots that are in the intro.
10/11/2008 at 13:11 thesombrerokid says:
i actually found the plot crawlled up it’s own arse and all the combat dried up forcing me to talk to a bunch of people which is by far the worst part of the game and take a tonne of side quests which i quickly got bored of, i’d say i spent as much time in vizima as i’d spent outside it before i got bored.
leaving it at that though would be much too harsh and give the impression i didn’t like it, i did like it just not enough given there where plenty of other games coming out wanting my money and attention i’d say this not dead space is the game that’ll get left to the dry season next year, i’m glad there’s another neverwinter nights (a game that’s like baldurs gate and the rest of them but lower quality meaning i don’t blast through it in a month and then leave myself with nothing to play but instead pace myself with it).
10/11/2008 at 13:24 Schadenfreude says:
@Wallace
Neverwinter Nights 2 uses the Electron engine, a pretty massive rewrite of Aurora; Obsidian only kept the back-end D&D stuff and certainly threw out the graphics engine in its entirety. The Witcher is still running on Aurora so has more in common with the first Neverwinter Nights or KotOR.
Which is a damning indictment of NWN2 if you ask me.
10/11/2008 at 13:26 Lobotomist says:
I dont know if i am crazy or is my european non native english speaker ear so crooked – But i never could really distinguish what was all that hubbub about Witcher poor english acting???
Sure it went from mediocre to some great pieces. But shoot me with your shotgun (or rock or paper) if there is no such bad acting in Oblivion, Fallout…or should i mention absolutely mega annoying NWN2 ?
I think personally , it was english speaking snobism!
Oh! So there is hint of accent in their english! Bring the torches!
Actually the fact that The game is happening in Fantasy medieval Poland – hint of polish accent serves only to better establish this.
-
But i agree on one thing, judging RPG game of such scope is not easy. And you truly needed to play Witcher to the end in order to fully appreciate it.
Same goes for Fallout3 , which as said above , starts of very mediocre but opens up into RPG that almost surpasses hardcore fallout fan expectations
10/11/2008 at 13:28 Subject 706 says:
As RPG makers, I’d say that CDP actually stand above Bioware in my book as of now. Might be because I quite liked the Witcher and was horribly disappointed with Mass Effect.
I actually didn’t find the Witchers voice work to be that jarring, but then again, I’m not a native english speaker.
10/11/2008 at 13:30 Thirith says:
Lobotomist: Neverwinter Night 2 had lots of absolutely dreadful voice acting, you’re right. Mask of the Betrayer was much better in this respect.
10/11/2008 at 13:35 Jim Rossignol says:
It’s not about accents in The Witcher, so much as the actors sounding like someone who has never acted before trying to do an impression of a Hollywood trailer voice-over announcer.
10/11/2008 at 13:40 jamscones says:
“If that philosophy involves ignoring the fact that the starting hours of your game are completely rubbish…”
This is sadly symptomatic of the rather sniffy attitude RPS has shown the game since it was originally released. Even the tone of this entire article suggests that you almost resent liking it to the extent you did.
The starting areas are fine, and I felt totally engaged with the game during the prologue and Chapter 1. That the game opens up a lot and allows more player agency in Chapter 2 doesn’t reflect poorly on the preceding sections which are, after all, an extended tutorial. The game has to teach you how to fight, how to use the alchemy system (which is important both to the context and the gameplay), and how to deal with the NPCs, including the significance of the decisions you make. This needs to be done in a more controlled way than would be possible if they just dumped you in Vizima with over a dozen quests and sub-quests hitting you at once. Vizima and its environs are already large enough that you will spend a good couple of hours wandering round in bewilderment, trying to figure out where to go and what to do next.
I finished TWEE just a couple of weeks ago and on the whole, it was one of the best CRPGs I’ve ever played. It was certainly a lot better than anything Obsidian have managed to release thus far, and it was meatier and more satisfying than Mass Effect.
I would urge anyone who’s a fan of modern (BiS/Obsidian/Bioware) style RPGs to give The Witcher a go. Gothic fans will also find a lot to like in the generally bleak, hostile tone, punctuated with bitter humour.
10/11/2008 at 13:47 cHeal says:
I thought the voice acting in the EE version was grand, far far better than Oblivions and up there with a great number of shooters. I quite enjoy it really, and find the character animations during conversations to be convincing enough.
10/11/2008 at 14:20 Danny says:
jamscones: that’s exactly what I wanted to say, but you do it so much better ;)
It really is one of the greatest RPG’s around, and people that liked the games you mentioned will have a great time with The Witcher.
And I don’t understand why games (but also movies and books) receive negative comments because of a high level of bleakness. Some people, including myself really prefer bleak settings over the shiny and cozy worlds that you see so often. It’s this reason that’s holding me back from ever feeling immersed in a game like Fable.
10/11/2008 at 14:31 andy says:
so it sounds like jim didn’t agree with some of the stuff in the game. the article came across a bit too much of “i know better then everyone else and everyone else should agree with me”.
umm, yeah…
10/11/2008 at 14:34 cyrenic says:
I wonder, if The Witcher wouldn’t have sold so well, if CD Projekt would have been able to continue based on profits from GoG.com. How much money are they making off that site?
10/11/2008 at 14:57 Calabi says:
Its a good I like it, I played it through to the end. It has a decent atmosphere which seems to be lacking in a lot of games now. There are lots of little problems with it though.
The combat, is awkward, and can get confusing and you dont always feel fully in control.
Quite a lot of the interactions come across as rushed and perhaps as wishful thinking.
Whilst its good you actually have proper choices in it, it doesnt always telegraph those choices, that well, or give you enough information to take the choice that you might like.
Spoilers.
Like the choice to join with the terrorists or not, up to that point, they were just terrorists to me, I had no information given to me which indicated otherwise of why I should join them. My choice to join them would only have been on a whim, I chose the only realistic choice, eventually I follow, along those choices to the end where, you end up having to slaughter, squirrels for a compo. I appeared to have joined the bad guys without realising it and no way of going back on that. Also at the end of the game it doesnt seem as if your choices amount to much, and its a bit vague.
10/11/2008 at 15:07 reiver says:
After propagating the “Angry internet Man” meme are you now trying to give rise to a “Snide Journos” one? The PCGamer centered hate for this title stinks!
10/11/2008 at 15:08 jackflash says:
It’s a very good game. Doesn’t quite achieve greatness, but in my opinion it’s still the best game in town at the moment. Just watching the stale combat in Dragon Age : Origins videos makes me appreciate what we have in the Witcher. God, I hope their next game is PC-only. I really don’t think it will be, though. They’re starting to murmur about console ambitions. That would be sad.
10/11/2008 at 15:10 Lukasz says:
Cyrenic.
CD Projekt is a main distributor of games in poland. If Witcher didn’t sell well (it would be a great tragedy for many reasons) they would not be hurt beyond recovery. They would be okay.
No idea how well GOG performs. Few weeks ago they said that closed beta was more popular than expected.
10/11/2008 at 15:12 jackflash says:
One other comment – I really hope that in future games they flesh out the choices you have to make. The Witcher was applauded for having huge, meaningful choices that had a big impact on the way the game played out. But I think that’s only half right. The developers almost never give you much information about the choices you make, so in my view they never carried much moral weight. I had no real idea what to choose or why. This makes it very hard to actually role play in the Witcher. A decision does not carry moral weight just because it has a large and lasting impact; it carries such weight because the decision-maker knew what these impacts might be and made the decision anyway. I think tweaking this aspect of their gameplay mechanic – basically, a storytelling and narrative issue – should be CD Projekt’s first priority. Planescape Torment got this 100% right, which is why it remains my favorite RPG of all time.
10/11/2008 at 15:13 Alec Meer says:
Reiver: sadly you’re confusing “having some problems with it” with “hate.” Absolutism stinks.
10/11/2008 at 15:15 Yann Best says:
Generally I agree with the sentiments espoused by Jim (though I preferred the village to the city simply because the city heralded the collapse of the game’s frame-rate on my old rig); however:
Really? I could certainly accept that to a great many people, including presumably Jim, that this is correct, but I’m not sure it’s necessarily an ‘of course’ statement: if it was, then I’m not sure that Mass Effect (say) would be quite so well-liked in some quarters.
Different people get different things out of RPG’s, and while combat and questing are important elements, so are storytelling and, well, ‘role playing’ [i.e. character customisation and choice-making]. The latter are closely intertwined, of course – nobody wants to play a role in an uninteresting world – and it is to storytelling that script and voice acting matter: deeply. It’s for those reasons that many found problems with The Witcher, and it lies behind my own dislike of Oblivion (and is the main problem I have with Fallout 3). The VA problem can simply be solved by, well, not having any, but scripting is a much larger problem – not just making natural-sounding speech, but making it successfully reflect your character and the way you’ve played is a crucial part of world-building.
Ignoring JRPG’s (which generally eschew role-playing, and simplify the questing), while it is true that most games contain at least a smidgen of all the above elements, the fact is that they often focus on one or two sections to the harm of the other: so we have rogue-likes (and the old Dungeon Master-alikes) which focus on the combat over all; and on the other hand games like Planescape where lacklustre combat is overcome with excellent storytelling and numerous role-playing options. Of course there are also occasional games which manage to merge all four elements (so the Fallouts combined capable combat, interesting quests, excellent scripting and strong role-playing elements), but these are the exceptions rather than the rule.
All I’m trying to show is is that while to many the combat and questing are crucial, if not the crucial elements of an RPG, to others it can be the storytelling and/or the role-playing aspects, and to these people it’s likely to be the case that scriptwriting and voice-acting are more important than combat mechanics and quest-structure.
Oh, and I’m aware that I’m being unfair in that Jim was specifically talking about voice-acting in that sentence. But voice-acting and script are pretty inextricable linked, and when it comes to the Witcher both are frequently as bad as each other, so it seems relevant to bring both in.
10/11/2008 at 15:17 reiver says:
@Jackflash
I think that was intentional. It’s butterfly effect shizzle. Not knowing the consequences of your action until later on and thus not being able to cycle through them to find the one you want is much more mature. They’re asking you to making an instinctive response to a quandry focusing on the choice rather than the consequence which is, imo, far superior role playing.
10/11/2008 at 15:17 dhex says:
despite its faults, the witcher is worth the time of anyone interested in the pc rpg.
the voice acting did dance on the atrocious line, but that’s true of most games, sadly. why is decent – not great, not award-winning, but decent – voice acting so rare? at least bethesda can pull the “we spent all our money on liam neeson” card.
10/11/2008 at 15:23 reiver says:
Alec: Considering the puerile albino Viggo Mortensen jibes, the innacuracies and impression you never got past the first couple of levels it was easy to mistake it for something more absolute. John’s PC Zone review, despite it’s lower score, seemed a much more rational review of the game.
10/11/2008 at 15:25 Alec Meer says:
Yeah, it’s not one of my finest hours, and I spent the month following it wishing for a time machine and a longer deadline. But what on Earth does it have to do with Jim’s balanced and oft-positive post about the game above? Crying “hate” at the first sign of any criticism seems like an attempt to forbid discussion.
10/11/2008 at 15:25 Kieron Gillen says:
reiver: But that’s nonsense, innit? I mean, if I’ve been living in a world for all my life, I know whether terrorists are actually reasonable (for example, if they’re fighting against open genocide and slavery) or whether they’re loonies (If they’re fighting to destroy everyone else’s freedoms). The Witcher hasn’t shown you enough of the in-game prejudice for you to make a fair call, so you’re left with your initial response to the word.
Knowing the consequences is a different thing to being able to make an informed decision which leads to unexpected consequences.
(For its sins, KOTOR2 gave a shot at the latter)
KG
10/11/2008 at 15:29 Kalain says:
I bought the Enhanced edition after I bought Dead Space and Far Cry 2, and, to be honest, I’ve spent more time playing The Witcher than the other two because there is so much depth to it. A lot of the new releases coming out are just console games with sub-par plots and shallow game play.
I had high hopes for Dead Space, with the plot looking like it could be great, but the end product was enough for me to play to level 3 then uninstall it. Everything was so console like without any care to change it to the PC. Far Cry 2, whilst it looks good, just misfires so many times with rubbish AI and respawning vehicles and enemies. This has tainted my view on the latest batch of releases for the PC as sub-par console ports. The only games I’m looking forward to now are Wotlk and L4D and thats it.
I think you are being unfair on the witcher because its not in the same ‘league’, and I use that term very loosely, as you expect it to be. Its a great game with out does virtually all the latest PC games by a long shot. Give CDProjekt their credit because they have enhanced their game to a point where is it superior to it’s previous release, where as other game developers would just let it rot away (Capcom, I’m looking at you).
10/11/2008 at 15:54 Iain says:
@Kieron: I found that it’s not so much that you’re not given enough information about whether the “terrorists” are “freedom fighters” or not, it’s that you’re shown that the two sides are as bad as each other.
Which is what makes being forced to pick a side even more galling. And that’s the whole point – whether you can truly pick a “lesser” evil when neutrality isn’t an option.
I’d also suggest that having to make an uninformed decision is quite interesting as well from a gameplay point of view – you certainly don’t always get to make informed decisions in real-life, so why should you always be in full possession of the facts in a videogame? I’m sure you’ve had to make a snap decision a some point only to think a few hours or days afterwards “oh, I really wish I hadn’t done that”. More games should try to recreate feeling that from time to time.
10/11/2008 at 16:00 Schadenfreude says:
You don’t actually have to pick a side. Well, in the bank mission you do. But then in a follow up mission you can tell the side you picked to take a hike and go it alone for the rest of the game.
It’s not immediately apparent, but neutrality is an option and it makes you feel a bit of a heel but as not as bad as you do later on if you choose to side with the Squirrels or the Order.
10/11/2008 at 16:11 Kieron Gillen says:
Iain: Because in this situation it’s one where your character’s knowledge is more than player’s knowledge. Your character knows how bad the persecution has been and the player simply doesn’t.
(And a choice of the lesser of two evils requires you to know enough to decide which is the lesser.)
KG
10/11/2008 at 16:13 Iain says:
Well, after I sided with the Order in the Bank, I thought I should stick with them until the end of the game – in for a penny and all that. I didn’t want to alienate both sides and risk ending up having to fight them both.
The nice thing about the way Witcher implemented these decisions was that even if you did make a “wrong” decision, you could stick with it and it didn’t mean you had to go back and reload the game. Making a bad choice didn’t stop the show, you just felt like a bit of an idiot.
10/11/2008 at 16:17 Iain says:
@Kieron:
Except that you have the same knowledge as Geralt. He starts the game with total amnesia.
10/11/2008 at 16:23 Kieron Gillen says:
Good Point. Except it’s clearly not total amnesia. He knows how money works, people’s interactions, sex, how to sword-fight, how to travel, how to find places, his interactions with his fellow Witchers, etc.
KG
10/11/2008 at 16:26 Calabi says:
It is quite interesting the nature of the choices you are forced to take, whether or not it was intentional I dont know. But the thing that annoys me is that, you make a choice early on and are forced down that way for the rest of the story. The one where you are forced to choose, where to put the boy and thus which girl likes you more is reasonable and I can accept that the other will not like you much after that.
Though, If you join, a side, you are forced to stay in that side even if you disagree with the things they are doing aways down the line. Its good that you are forced to make hard decisions, but the could at least give you chances to go back a bit on some of them, if not entirely reconcile.
Like when that women says to you “wahoo lets go slaughter some squirrels”. You should be able to at least say something like “get lost, you stink I’m going back to being neutral”. Most of the characters might not see you that way, but some of them might understand in the end.
10/11/2008 at 16:42 Wedge says:
Didn’t they re-record all the dialogue for the EE? Are you sure that’s the one you played? It wasn’t fantastic, but it certainly wasn’t bad either, particularly for Geralt’s dialogue.
The game itself was quite fun for a while, though for some reason it seemed to take an ungodly long time to get things done. And just as I was finally on the verge of finishing all the quests in the second chapter, I ran into a game halting bug where the stupid investigator guy WOULD NOT show up after running off, and so my whole game up to that point was screwed.
Haven’t gone back since, probably because I don’t think I’d want to go back and do most of the quests again, with how long most of them seem to take.
10/11/2008 at 17:56 Iain says:
@Kieron: Yes, he has a functional memory of how to sword fight and the basics of everyday life, but absolutely no context for it – I suppose it would be more correct to say he has psychogenic amnesia after he was apparently killed in the episode referred to by Zoltan and Shani that takes place prior to the start of the game.
He can’t remember anything about his friends or the relationships he had with them (Dandelion, Zoltan, Shani, Triss, for example) and he knows absolutely nothing about the political situation until he gets filled in by Zoltan in Vizima, after Geralt rescues him from a group of humans. He hasn’t even heard of the Scoia’tel until Zoltan tells him about them – and this is in spite of them nearly murdering Geralt and Dandelion in events prior to the game (see the short stories for details).
10/11/2008 at 17:59 Nick says:
@Kieron: I thought that was one of Kotor2′s bravest aspects, the way at times it really tried to show a different perspective on the Star Wars Good/Evil dichotomy and Kriea’s scornful words should you stray from her own “grey”ness. I really wish they had had more time to finish it as up to a point I prefered it to the original (and yes everyone else, I know there is a Restoration Project inbound sometime within the next year, possibly).
10/11/2008 at 18:00 Kieron Gillen says:
Iain: I stand corrected.
(Though still don’t think someone making a decision on racism without knowing anything about racism is that interesting. And amnesia starting positions are really lazy now.)
KG
10/11/2008 at 18:17 Paul Moloney says:
“@Paul: Have I missed something?”
Oh, the Bloodlines patch saga was essentially this: one guy was the main updater of the community patch; at one point, I helped with some of the dialogue typos. Then, some bloke famous for running nude mods site didn’t like some of the patch, so took the patch, removed some bit few bits, then reissued it claiming it was his work, the True Patch (in his words).
I wasn’t following the saga at this point; I just saw an announcement for the new patch, had a look, and was curious to see that the text changes were identical to mine.
When I mailed him a polite request that he should at least ask people for permission to reuse their work, I was told I was part of a conspiracy against him, and other such psycho-babble. It ended up with him including graphics in his patch contains hidden insults – for example, the maintainer of the Community patch’s name scrawled on an in-game toilet bowl.
Yes, who would have known that someone who runs a nudie mod site could be so immature?
P.
10/11/2008 at 18:24 Putter says:
This Christmas season is going to be a mess, so much so that I’m skipping all the upcoming and recent releases (save GTAIV) to catch up and last year and the years before. I want to play maybe 1 PC RPG (and certainly no more than 2), but I have ~10 options. Really, this post makes me want to play Witcher as much as it makes me want to play Bloodlines, neither of which I have played, but I own both. I could also play Anachronox, NVWN1/2, ToEE, Morrowwind, or this years Fallout 3 or Mass Effect or one of the dozen or so console RPG’s I have been hoarding.
My point is in agreement to the original topic: ~5 hours before a game gets to the point is borderline unacceptable. Even though I’ll obviously play it in its entirety at some point, if Yahtzee’s conclusions mean anything, I’m among the exception. In my younger years I used to be able to cruise through games in a couple of days and crave an experience longer than 20-25 hours. Now, a long-style RPG is a major commitment.
10/11/2008 at 18:24 tmp says:
I think it isn’t as much the case of player having less knowledge, but rather the choice you’re given hinges on slightly different point, one that makes the detailed knowledge less important. The elves are subject of racial persecution (ok, technically that’s species not races) and –painted into corner– they hit back at people who attack them. “How bad” that persecution in question was shouldn’t really matter because the problem itself is ethical — i.e. how one reacts to both the discrimination, and to the fact that these who are discriminated choose to fight violence with violence.
10/11/2008 at 19:01 Iain says:
@Kieron: “And amnesia starting positions are really lazy now.”
I couldn’t agree more. Though at least with The Witcher there was a vaguely passable reason for it – it kind of made sense for Geralt to have to get reacquainted with the game world as you played, since not many people on these shores would have known anything about the background story in the books. Heck, you couldn’t even get them in English until a few months after the game came out. It’s not like the Forgotten Realms where pretty much everyone and their dog knows the lore backwards. (The same could be said to be true for Planescape: Torment, actually)
10/11/2008 at 19:23 Calabi says:
@tmp From my playthrough, I knew that the other races were being persecuted against, that they were dumped into a rough corter of the city and that the population sneered and stepped on them, but it didnt stretch to the extent of violence(except for the little bullying villagers nature). The books potrayed things as one sided, which thinking about it was perhaps a clue but not enough of one.
The character Geralt is like once removed from a policeman or whatever they call them in this time. Ethically from all the information given and his duties, responsabilities, he could only side with the order in the bank, and the order when the villagers are held hostage, or he could just about get away with, not siding with anyone.
10/11/2008 at 19:35 Guhndahb says:
Not only did I really enjoy The Witcher, but I just love the CD Projekt gang. Everything they do, from The Witcher itself, to interviews damning DRM, to GoG, to the free EE, as well as their high respect for their audience’s intelligence just makes me think so highly of them.
I do agree with a poster above that hard difficulty is the way to go in The Witcher. It does not make it impossibly hard but it does make it fun. I’ve heard many people condemn the combat in The Witcher as boring, but I wonder how many of them played on hard. Some, I’m sure – no combat system is going to challenge or appeal to all – but I suspect many played the easier modes which, from what I hear, really are a bit too easy. And this is coming from a person who doesn’t even really care that much about combat challenge in any storytelling game.
And regarding VtM:Bloodlines patches, Wesp has two versions of his patch, one that generally just fixes things and one that overhauls the game to his vision. This guy has managed that project for years now and his dedication to the game is beyond any of ours and, to me, puts his vision for the game on a similar footing to the devs. When I next replay Bloodlines, I’m going to happily play Wesp’s full patch. I’m _so_ looking forward to it. (He makes it available at The Patches Scrolls and I usually see the announcements for the frequent new versions for it on RPGWatch.)
And, finally, back on The Witcher, I agree with putting it off a bit if you have a lot on your plate. I feel it’s a game worthy of taking your time to soak in the world and enjoy its many facets.
10/11/2008 at 19:37 alefrassetti says:
Well, while the witcher’s and other rpg’s amnesia is simply a way to start without too much concern about the PC’s knowledge and personality, Planescape’s is on the contrary a game mechanic, the engine that pulls the game ahead.
10/11/2008 at 19:59 James G says:
Am I missing something about the combat? It just seems like click, click click to me. There’s also the matter of selecting fighting styles, but that is pretty fixed with respect to the enemy.
I realise things are going to get a bit more advanced when I have a few more spells to throw into the mix (I’m still near the begining), but at the moment it seems pretty inline with the system in Jade Empire, which I thought was dull and uninteresting.
Perhaps it just comes from my preference for slower, more strategical and cerebral combat. (I have crap reflexes and poor hand-eye co-ordination. Always heave.)
10/11/2008 at 20:00 Guhndahb says:
I’d argue that the cliche RPG starting positions of amnesia and humble beginnings are more of a necessary evil than all that lamentable. I’ve learned to ignore them as best I can.
I think it has less to do with story than it has to do with RPG game mechanics. Geralt is already a badass, there needs to be some explanation for why he suddenly has to relearn all these skills which provides the typical RPG leveling/skill growth mechanic. A FPS and most other genres don’t need to do this because the character doesn’t need to grow. I’m already concerned about how they are going to handle this in the next (we hope) Witcher title.
These cliches clearly should be avoided. They most certainly can be and I’m much happier when they are. But there are some executions that are worse than usual, such as the fabled humble farmer orphan of prophecy which makes even my forgiving eyes roll.
10/11/2008 at 20:04 Guhndahb says:
@James G: Well at least on my playthrough on hard, the combat was a combination of choosing the style and, more importantly, the timing for the combos. On hard there is only a visual cue (no audio like in the lesser difficulties) for when you need to click and it can be easy to miss – at least it could be for me. I’m really kind of mediocre at twitch combat myself. I expect console gamers that are used to “press this button NOW” twitch minigames might still find it pretty easy.
10/11/2008 at 20:10 tmp says:
One isn’t being put in ghetto (and kept there) with good words and promise of fat paycheck. You can also get the overall attitude towards the minorities from snippets of dialogue on streets (“the only good elf is a dead elf” etc) There’s strong parallels drawn to treatment of Jews in the 19th/early 20th century which i’d expect to provide the player with fairly good overall image of what’s involved (pogroms and such)
In the end it still boils down to ethical choice — what’s the player’s character stance on persecution of these who aren’t of his own species (but still at least equally intelligent beings) and what’s his position on these other species hurting these he’d been almost literally built to protect, in what they claim to be self-defense and reaction to mistreatment. These are weighted against each other and left up to player to decide… and the game is sadistic –or maybe just realistic– enough to show that there’s ugly side to either option.
The choice is made more complicated when you consider the game takes time to point out that while main character was made to protect humans from monsters, frequently the “monsters” are humans themselves. There’s innocents getting caught in the middle of conflict, but choosing to protect these innocents also isn’t without consequences that could be considered harmful. It leaves enough room for more than one interpretation of ‘lesser evil’ and/or ‘greater good’, or at least more than what certain other black&white productions provide.
10/11/2008 at 21:10 formerRPSreader says:
Lost a lot of respect for RPS after reading this article. I used to think of RPS as a bunch of people who had love for games with substance, games that was about more than just controlling a crosshair. When one (The Witcher) finally comes a long, something as rare as a PC-only RPG that has substance and a mature feel to it, has good gameplay, and looks like a AAA-title, it’s moaned about? It’s criticized instead of celebrated. For me this was a real rare gem of a game.
While I do agree that games seldom feature good voice acting and that I like everyone else wouldn’t mind it being better, but it’s something that costs a lot of money. It’s ludicrous to expect or almost demand a game like The Witcher to have that, considering who the developer is. Even Bethesda couldn’t spend that much money on voice acting.
10/11/2008 at 21:11 formerRPSreader says:
Lately what I’ve seen here is not something I support. Raving hype about a braindead shooter like Left 4 Dead and just criticism towards those who deserve thanks for bringing something else to the scene.
10/11/2008 at 21:14 Kieron Gillen says:
To be honest, man, if you immediately turn off when someone disagrees with you, you wouldn’t have been a reader for long anyway. It’s not as if RPS even agrees with RPS all the time. There’s a time bomb if there ever was one.
Thanks for reading. Hopefully you’ll come back one day.
KG
10/11/2008 at 21:16 cyrenic says:
I think we can agree those brains sure are delicious though.
10/11/2008 at 21:19 Nimic says:
Anyone honestly thinking L4D is nothing but a ‘braindead shooter’ (and says that like it’s inherently a bad thing) isn’t fit to read RPS.
Terrific pun, though.
10/11/2008 at 21:47 Acosta says:
Come on, do you really need to trash other games to show how superior is your taste for games? I’m not going to extend myself much on The Witcher here, seems to be one of the cursed things that provokes endless discussions in RPS for no reason. I agree with many of the criticisms, but I think I put a different weight on them, perhaps I put more attention on the stuff that does right, but that is a personal viewpoint.
I can understand why some people gets excessively defensive about The Witcher, the genre really needed a game like that, with new ideas and a brave approach, it does lot of interesting stuff and I consider it a very solid base for the next CDK Projekt’s project and a great game itself.
We may have differences among ourselves, but let´s act as mature rational beings and discuss appropriately.
10/11/2008 at 21:52 Calabi says:
@tmp Your right, the whole thing is complicated which is a good thing and interesting to have in game.
I think its more on the side of sadistic though, they went out and attempted to make sure the majority of your decisions would end up bad, or force you to do unpalatable things.
I was shocked that I had to kill half the village, and the rest died mysteriously, after the first chapter. I didnt like killing those poor stray dogs, but they had to die for me money.
It does make you question your choices after the fact, did I make the right one? Its hard to say. Compared to alot of other RPGs though I am contented with the choices I made. I didnt feel some need to game it, and look for the most optimal choices on a guide or something.
10/11/2008 at 22:05 Jim Rossignol says:
“Braindead Shooter” would have been a great comedy tagline for L4D.
Angry commenters: Did you miss the bit where I ended up saying it’d be foolish *not* to play The Witcher? Read the words, my enjoyment of the game is in there. And I criticised it too… Oh the contradiction!
10/11/2008 at 22:10 Tasogare says:
I think thats whats guys from CDProjekt meant by saying:
“The amazing response we had from the gaming community to the Enhanced Edition really reinforced that we’re on the right track with our development philosophy.”
Any way great discussion about a great game :)
10/11/2008 at 23:00 Kieron Gillen says:
Re: Racism. To stress what I meant, at the initial choice to do with terrorists you don’t know that much. When you get in and see the Ghetto, that changes – the Jewish parallels are striking. I was talking strictly about the opening.
(Which does include stuff, of course.)
KG
10/11/2008 at 23:45 AsubstanceD says:
I love the passion and views that the witcher inspires! Definately a testament to the quality of game that CD guys have put out, it does not appeal to everyone and its not meant to, but it definately inspires interesting discussions from everyone.
10/11/2008 at 23:57 tmp says:
It’s been a while since i played, but isn’t the initial choice just decision to protect some trade goods or allow to get them taken? I didn’t think much of it, nor it seemed like there’d be need for much background to make the choice — you either give up the stuff in attempt to avoid bloodshed, or take risk with hard stance and then it basically turns into self-defense sort of thing.
11/11/2008 at 00:02 Kadayi says:
Great to see a nice re-evaluation. It’s a worthy title that despite it’s slow pace at the beginning anyone with a passing interest in RPGs should play.
11/11/2008 at 00:21 NegativeZero says:
I still don’t understand what it is about the dialogue in this game that people find so objectionable. I never noticed anything wrong with it at all, it always seemed perfectly acceptable to me. But the first time I played through the prologue section I had a friend watching and I recall him asking if the game had originally been in another language, because he felt that it seemed ‘off’. Maybe my brain has been fried by watching tons of anime and playing JRPGs with terrible, terrible english dubs.
Still, I think it’s great that the game’s done so well for them. Regardless of how people feel about the dialogue and whatnot, you can’t ignore the immense attention to detail that they’ve went into it. I picked up the original Collector’s Edition back when I got the game (it was $5 more than the standard edition) and the book – a genuine collector’s edition artbook, not a bloody DVD booklet like most CEs nowadays – really surprised me with the depth and breadth of the work that had gone into the game. It’s not a perfect experience by any stretch but I think it was easily one of my favourite games of 2007. Must get around to playing through the Enhanced version – too many things to play, and not even close to enough time to do it. :(
Looking forward to seeing what they do next.
11/11/2008 at 02:01 Jash says:
First, I have to say that I have played it through twice, and am working on a third. I loves me some Witcher.
But the only thing really jilting is the scripts for the voice actors, not the voice acting itself. Even that is forgivable. And lets be honest, if you are an RPG fan, you have learned to be forgiving of certain deficiencies. Dialogue that can be “off”(good way to put it negativezero) is insignificant compared to the usual deficiencies we have to put up with.
CDPojekt does dark and gritty in a way that I wish more would. I honestly expect this to herald more good RPGs. Just look at Galciv2, and how Stardock pointed out that you do not make games for an audience that is predisposed toward piracy(HI2U FPS FANS). Make a good game that is meant for folks that will PAY for a good game and it just might sell. Now that we have a good business model that has been proven, publishers just might notice. Here is to hoping.
11/11/2008 at 02:38 John says:
It’s funny how 3 times I have read about the voice acting in The Witcher – and yet not once, in any Fallout 3 review have I read that some of the voices are from voice actors that did voices in Oblivion! I would rather have the Witcher’s ORIGINAL voices than to keep having my immersion broken in Fallout 3 by hearing a voice from another games that takes place in another time on another plane! The fact these voices are not even changed from one game to the other shows how Bethesda really cares about gamers. It also says much about the media that it not said one word about this! So when you hear Mr. Burke talk, in the Megaton Saloon, and hear the inviter to the Dark Brotherhood voice, and then when you turn to Gob, the Ghoul, in the same saloon and hear an Argonian voice, be prepared, like me, to downgrade the immersion in this game by quite a bit!
11/11/2008 at 02:43 ScubaV says:
I’ve beaten it twice, and it’s a superb game, a must-play for any RPG fan. Echoing others, I don’t understand the dialog and voice-acting angst. Especially after the EE, it seemed to be at least par for the course if not a step above.
11/11/2008 at 06:07 malkav11 says:
It’s worth noting that another potential reason for Geralt to side with the Scoia’tel is that he too faces racism and abuse based on the fact that he’s a witcher. He’s perhaps more tolerated than the elves and dwarves, but it’s not unreasonable to think that he would sympathize with them on grounds of somewhat shared hardships.
Depending always on how one plays him, of course.
11/11/2008 at 06:16 Krupo says:
Skimmed through the comments and noticed that none of the other ‘native’ Polish speakers responded to the idle speculation about what the Polish voice acting sounds like to someone familiar who know the language.
Verdict? Not cheesy, but rather, quite awesome.
It’s a treat to have Polish non-gamer family wander by as Witcher is on and remark, “oh my, Polish? In a game? Fantastic!”
No one has ever called it cheesy that I know of. Some stock/stereotypical ‘peasant’ type voices pop up, but it’s nothing like the Oblivion garbage.
It’s really well done, and you’re right to think it sounds good even if you don’t know Polish.
11/11/2008 at 06:36 PaulMorel says:
2 Things:
1 – I never even noticed the bad voice acting in the original version of The Witcher (I must be the only person).
2 – I still wasn’t compelled enough to play through the entire game. I gave up about 15 hours in.
Still, I am in the same boat as you. I am really looking forward to whatever they do next … I just hope they spend a little more time in QA and pick a more modern engine for their base.
11/11/2008 at 08:40 Jim Rossignol says:
Fallout 3′s voice-acting is certainly something we picked up on in a recent podcast, and I’m sure we’ll mention it when we look at the game again before Christmas.
11/11/2008 at 09:15 Alex says:
Am I one of the few to actually like the dialogues/voice acting in EE? Geralt was awesome.
11/11/2008 at 09:38 Thirith says:
I’ve had The Witcher for ages now but still haven’t played it. Having heard so much about the rubbishy voice acting might be quite useful – it can’t be as bad as I am expecting it to be right now…
One of my main problems with lots of game voice acting is that it is tremendously stilted – most of it feels very scripted. If you’re trying to go for semi-realistic dialogues you need to be more conversational. It’s mostly fantasy games that suffer from this. That’s where I’m usually glad for the Patrick Stewart type actors – they make even stilted dialogue sound important and real.
For me, one main reason why most game dialogues sound fake is that there’s no overlap – character A says his line, then character B replies. It’s all so polite. That works okay enough if it’s a fairly emotionless conversation, but as soon as people are angry, afraid or otherwise emotionally involved there’s overlap, and there are stops and gaps and interruptions. I can’t remember many games that have done these and it’s a shame.
11/11/2008 at 10:47 Pavel says:
Alex – I liked it also. Definitely better than Oblivion’s, and since even Oblivion’s did not detract from my experience (I read subtitles anyway), I had no problem with Witcher voice acting. But Geralt was indeed awesome – such a bad ass! I hope they will keep this voice actor for sequel(s).
11/11/2008 at 10:50 Paul Moloney says:
With all the love being shown, I thought I’d play the Witcher demo (I’d previously just played it for a few minutes). I have to admit I find the dialogue a little grating (“babe”?) and Geralt’s animation looks very odd – when he’s holding his sword aloft, he has his arms bent back to the extent that he looks double jointed. But I’m intrigued so will plough ahead; I finally got the hang of the clicky-clicky combat (perhaps they could do a dance version – Parappa the Witcher, anyone?).
P.
11/11/2008 at 11:12 Pavel says:
Paul M. – babe dialogue is changed in EE I think. As far as animations, I liked most of them, especially the combat bad ass ones. But I did not mind horrible animations in Oblivion or Fallout 3, so I definitely would not complain about the Witcher ones.I don’t play RPGs for animations..
11/11/2008 at 11:47 Kieron Gillen says:
The “Babe” is changed to “Child”, I think, in the EE, which is a much better translator.
KG
11/11/2008 at 11:59 Bobsy says:
Brainzapflash! Why don’t we have a game set in a Ghetto? Adventure/RPG stylee?
11/11/2008 at 19:03 malkav11 says:
By the way, what CD Projekt achieved with the Aurora engine is nothing short of amazing. NWN itself is ugly as sin and I would have assumed that nothing better could be achieved with the engine Bioware developed. Not so!
11/11/2008 at 19:42 John says:
…. And let’s not forget that it is the same CD Projekt that started the fantastic gog.com selling classic retro PC games like Fallout 1 and 2!!!! Surely that also shows, along with the free EE for previous Witcher customers, that the big guys would have charged for, that they really are gamers making games and understand gamers like no other games publisher does outside of the indie market! :)
12/11/2008 at 03:58 mejobloggs says:
I got nwn2+exp a while ago and played it for a total of 2 minutes. It ran at 15 fps or something terrible and didn’t look that great either
Loaded The Witcher and frames were high and it looked very nice. I find it very hard to believe when people tell me they run the same engine.