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	<title>Comments on: Retro: Where Time Stood Still</title>
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		<title>By: The Shed</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-119108</link>
		<dc:creator>The Shed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-119108</guid>
		<description>Silent Hill&#039;s always my first port of call when it comes to horror. I played SH3 a hecka lot, and while it was good in terms of gameplay, the story and level design is in no way as brilliantly inspired as SH2. SH2 is the ultimate horror game- I just eBay&#039;d it the other week and am slowly slogging through it. Ironic how it has one of the most likeable characters in videogame history, yet the most bleak of settings.

Condemned is a classic, if a flawed one, and while I like the second, it&#039;s just not got the same class as the first, it&#039;s been quite overcomplicated. 

On topic: Creatures 2 held some highly emotional moments for me. Mostly when I neglected my creature a bit and he started trying to commit suicide.  =(

I have emotional moments all the time in games, but I can&#039;t remember any at this moment in time. May return with more ... &quot;material&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silent Hill&#8217;s always my first port of call when it comes to horror. I played SH3 a hecka lot, and while it was good in terms of gameplay, the story and level design is in no way as brilliantly inspired as SH2. SH2 is the ultimate horror game- I just eBay&#8217;d it the other week and am slowly slogging through it. Ironic how it has one of the most likeable characters in videogame history, yet the most bleak of settings.</p>
<p>Condemned is a classic, if a flawed one, and while I like the second, it&#8217;s just not got the same class as the first, it&#8217;s been quite overcomplicated. </p>
<p>On topic: Creatures 2 held some highly emotional moments for me. Mostly when I neglected my creature a bit and he started trying to commit suicide.  =(</p>
<p>I have emotional moments all the time in games, but I can&#8217;t remember any at this moment in time. May return with more &#8230; &#8220;material&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: StooMonster</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-118545</link>
		<dc:creator>StooMonster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-118545</guid>
		<description>I worked at Denton Designs, and did the loading screen for this game. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worked at Denton Designs, and did the loading screen for this game. :)</p>
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		<title>By: hydra9</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-116718</link>
		<dc:creator>hydra9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-116718</guid>
		<description>@eyemessiah:
Feud was a brilliant and genuinely scary game, and I&#039;ve never played anything else quite like it. If anyone wants to play a great ZX Spectrum game that still stands the test of time (I personally don&#039;t think there are many)... Check it out. I played it for the first time a couple of years ago, and loved it.

Re: L4D. I only noticed last night that the delivery of certain lines changes depending on how well (or badly) you&#039;re doing. You can make your character say a &#039;hooray&#039; type of line, but if you just got pounded on by a Tank and lost two of your friends then they&#039;ll say &quot;We&#039;re going to make it, aren&#039;t we?&quot; in a cracked and slightly lunatic kinda way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@eyemessiah:<br />
Feud was a brilliant and genuinely scary game, and I&#8217;ve never played anything else quite like it. If anyone wants to play a great ZX Spectrum game that still stands the test of time (I personally don&#8217;t think there are many)&#8230; Check it out. I played it for the first time a couple of years ago, and loved it.</p>
<p>Re: L4D. I only noticed last night that the delivery of certain lines changes depending on how well (or badly) you&#8217;re doing. You can make your character say a &#8216;hooray&#8217; type of line, but if you just got pounded on by a Tank and lost two of your friends then they&#8217;ll say &#8220;We&#8217;re going to make it, aren&#8217;t we?&#8221; in a cracked and slightly lunatic kinda way.</p>
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		<title>By: eyemessiah</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-116711</link>
		<dc:creator>eyemessiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-116711</guid>
		<description>OMG SPOILERS ETC OFC

I have had emotional responses to plenty of games (it feels absurd that that seems like such a candid confession!).  I used to play &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feud_(video_game)&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Feud &lt;/a&gt; on Atari 800 (please raise your hand if you had one of these, I have never met anyone else who did!) and it scared the living shit out of me.  Somehow having the position of your nemesis indicated by a compass arrow at all times made the fact that he was always closing in on you all the more foreboding.

I&#039;m also regularly scared of any FPS with underwater sequences.  I have many HL1 saves where I&#039;m just staring at the water and have thought, &quot;Not tonight!&quot;.

The end of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alisia_Dragoon&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;  Alisa Dragoon &lt;/a&gt; on the megadrive was also pretty effective as the dragons you have been nurturing all the way through the game and who have saved your ass many times sacrifice themselves to save you from certain death.

The sprouting sequence in Grim Fandango was pretty horrifying too, and not in the usual &quot;gory&quot; way.

I found the end of Freespace II to be quite affecting as well.  Its altogether more downbeat than I was expecting (partly given that I died, and that that was factored into the ending sequence).

Also, Close Combat 5 (if that was the one where you could keep your units from mission to mission) was fairly harrowing for me as I watched squads that had been with me since the start of the game get ripped to shreds in the face of overwhelming odds.

Also in COD4 when the sniper that is training you gets his legs borked by a crashing chopper and you have to carry him to the extraction point, that pretty involving, and of course the bit where you are crawling along on your radioactive broken legs in the nuclear wasteland, that was pretty desolate.

Also the bits in HL1 where you have to leave Barney behind because he can&#039;t cross the load points or some BS, imo that was a sad moment.

Although I found the ending-proper of ME to be substantially broken, I was moved by the bit before that where you are thought to be dead and you companions look stunned and defeated and then you run sort of limping up over some rubble and smile just a little in a sort of satisfied way.

Also, pretty much any multiplayer game (Tribes 2, TF &amp; TF2 etc) where you have moments of camaraderie are often quite moving I think.

Of course that includes L4D, which not only has camaraderie in spades but also some really powerful writing and voice acting.  I love the way that on expert everyone starts of cocky and upbeat and by the end of the level everyone is hunched and limping and downtrodden looking and shakily saying &quot;Guys, I&#039;m pretty torn up.&quot;. And lets not forget about the delivery &amp; the dialogue when people are on the ground getting pounded to death by the tank - I always get a little distraught when I hear that, particularly because the way the game is designed you can almost never help them.

And lets not forget the heady combination of breaking up with your girlfriend, taking drugs putting on your favourite albums and playing wistful Japanese dating sims.

Magical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG SPOILERS ETC OFC</p>
<p>I have had emotional responses to plenty of games (it feels absurd that that seems like such a candid confession!).  I used to play <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feud_(video_game)" title="" rel="nofollow"> Feud </a> on Atari 800 (please raise your hand if you had one of these, I have never met anyone else who did!) and it scared the living shit out of me.  Somehow having the position of your nemesis indicated by a compass arrow at all times made the fact that he was always closing in on you all the more foreboding.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also regularly scared of any FPS with underwater sequences.  I have many HL1 saves where I&#8217;m just staring at the water and have thought, &#8220;Not tonight!&#8221;.</p>
<p>The end of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alisia_Dragoon" title="" rel="nofollow">  Alisa Dragoon </a> on the megadrive was also pretty effective as the dragons you have been nurturing all the way through the game and who have saved your ass many times sacrifice themselves to save you from certain death.</p>
<p>The sprouting sequence in Grim Fandango was pretty horrifying too, and not in the usual &#8220;gory&#8221; way.</p>
<p>I found the end of Freespace II to be quite affecting as well.  Its altogether more downbeat than I was expecting (partly given that I died, and that that was factored into the ending sequence).</p>
<p>Also, Close Combat 5 (if that was the one where you could keep your units from mission to mission) was fairly harrowing for me as I watched squads that had been with me since the start of the game get ripped to shreds in the face of overwhelming odds.</p>
<p>Also in COD4 when the sniper that is training you gets his legs borked by a crashing chopper and you have to carry him to the extraction point, that pretty involving, and of course the bit where you are crawling along on your radioactive broken legs in the nuclear wasteland, that was pretty desolate.</p>
<p>Also the bits in HL1 where you have to leave Barney behind because he can&#8217;t cross the load points or some BS, imo that was a sad moment.</p>
<p>Although I found the ending-proper of ME to be substantially broken, I was moved by the bit before that where you are thought to be dead and you companions look stunned and defeated and then you run sort of limping up over some rubble and smile just a little in a sort of satisfied way.</p>
<p>Also, pretty much any multiplayer game (Tribes 2, TF &amp; TF2 etc) where you have moments of camaraderie are often quite moving I think.</p>
<p>Of course that includes L4D, which not only has camaraderie in spades but also some really powerful writing and voice acting.  I love the way that on expert everyone starts of cocky and upbeat and by the end of the level everyone is hunched and limping and downtrodden looking and shakily saying &#8220;Guys, I&#8217;m pretty torn up.&#8221;. And lets not forget about the delivery &amp; the dialogue when people are on the ground getting pounded to death by the tank &#8211; I always get a little distraught when I hear that, particularly because the way the game is designed you can almost never help them.</p>
<p>And lets not forget the heady combination of breaking up with your girlfriend, taking drugs putting on your favourite albums and playing wistful Japanese dating sims.</p>
<p>Magical.</p>
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		<title>By: Ergates</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114943</link>
		<dc:creator>Ergates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114943</guid>
		<description>I remeber WTSS.  I remember it being bastard hard.  REALLY bastard hard.  Pretty much anything you do at any point and and will get you killed, usually without any warning.  You&#039;d be standing there and suddently a dinosaur would run on screen and eat you.  Or a bloody Pterodactyl would pick you up and carry you off.  Very much a case of trying to remember all the dangers and avoiding them.

I never really got to grips with it.

Great Escape on the otherhand -  whist certainly not easy (I don&#039;t think I ever actually escaped, but I got close a few times), was at least a bit more predictable (not in a bad way).  You could usually anticipate when/if you were in danger.  Also helped that getting caught didn&#039;t mean certain death - just back to your room with a little lost morale.

In fact that was one of the cool things about it.   Every time you got caught, and every day that passed without you escaping, your morale dropped.  When it got too low, it was game-over, except you didn&#039;t die.  Instead,  you just control of your character and he&#039;d just follow the other inmates around on the daily routine - he&#039;d given up trying to escape).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remeber WTSS.  I remember it being bastard hard.  REALLY bastard hard.  Pretty much anything you do at any point and and will get you killed, usually without any warning.  You&#8217;d be standing there and suddently a dinosaur would run on screen and eat you.  Or a bloody Pterodactyl would pick you up and carry you off.  Very much a case of trying to remember all the dangers and avoiding them.</p>
<p>I never really got to grips with it.</p>
<p>Great Escape on the otherhand &#8211;  whist certainly not easy (I don&#8217;t think I ever actually escaped, but I got close a few times), was at least a bit more predictable (not in a bad way).  You could usually anticipate when/if you were in danger.  Also helped that getting caught didn&#8217;t mean certain death &#8211; just back to your room with a little lost morale.</p>
<p>In fact that was one of the cool things about it.   Every time you got caught, and every day that passed without you escaping, your morale dropped.  When it got too low, it was game-over, except you didn&#8217;t die.  Instead,  you just control of your character and he&#8217;d just follow the other inmates around on the daily routine &#8211; he&#8217;d given up trying to escape).</p>
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		<title>By: bonuswavepilot</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114861</link>
		<dc:creator>bonuswavepilot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114861</guid>
		<description>I think &#039;Another World&#039; on the Amiga was probably the earliest really affecting game I can recall.  The whole atmosphere and story were brilliant, then that moment towards the end 

*SPOILERS* 

where you are plummeting to your death, and get caught by one of the aliens.  There&#039;s a brief pause for you to think you&#039;ll be ok, then he smacks you against the wall and you spend the remainder of the game pushing yourself along on your belly, presumably with a broken back.  Then into the lovely closing scene where your alien buddy loads you onto the back of the flying beastie (either unconscious or dead, depending on whether you consider the sequel to be canon) and you go winging off into the sunset, mournful music swelling all the while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8216;Another World&#8217; on the Amiga was probably the earliest really affecting game I can recall.  The whole atmosphere and story were brilliant, then that moment towards the end </p>
<p>*SPOILERS* </p>
<p>where you are plummeting to your death, and get caught by one of the aliens.  There&#8217;s a brief pause for you to think you&#8217;ll be ok, then he smacks you against the wall and you spend the remainder of the game pushing yourself along on your belly, presumably with a broken back.  Then into the lovely closing scene where your alien buddy loads you onto the back of the flying beastie (either unconscious or dead, depending on whether you consider the sequel to be canon) and you go winging off into the sunset, mournful music swelling all the while.</p>
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		<title>By: Boltingturtle02</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114736</link>
		<dc:creator>Boltingturtle02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114736</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of the Syndicate retrospective, which described exactly what I felt when I played the game. The scource engine is brilliant for emotions though. The simple power of facial expression is a tremendous thing, and when stuck in a game it covers many sins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of the Syndicate retrospective, which described exactly what I felt when I played the game. The scource engine is brilliant for emotions though. The simple power of facial expression is a tremendous thing, and when stuck in a game it covers many sins.</p>
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		<title>By: sanxo</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114519</link>
		<dc:creator>sanxo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114519</guid>
		<description>The underground level with the poltergeists in STALKER is probably the most actually scary moments I can remember in a game; it was just the experience of impotence where &lt;i&gt;normal stuff&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt; is levitating and throwing itself at your (without anything obvious to shoot at) and all you do is run away. 

All the other wierd stuff like mutated soldiers with gas masks melded on their faces you can rationalise as an slightly warped art department.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The underground level with the poltergeists in STALKER is probably the most actually scary moments I can remember in a game; it was just the experience of impotence where <i>normal stuff</i><i> is levitating and throwing itself at your (without anything obvious to shoot at) and all you do is run away. </p>
<p>All the other wierd stuff like mutated soldiers with gas masks melded on their faces you can rationalise as an slightly warped art department.</i></p>
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		<title>By: spd from Russia</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114448</link>
		<dc:creator>spd from Russia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114448</guid>
		<description>Even bad games evoke emotions. Like anger and frustrattion.
Sentiments &#039;forced&#039; on you by the cheesy japanese games? plz they make me laugh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even bad games evoke emotions. Like anger and frustrattion.<br />
Sentiments &#8216;forced&#8217; on you by the cheesy japanese games? plz they make me laugh</p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114442</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114442</guid>
		<description>Fort Frolic was harilous in parts, getting a big daddy to chase one of the target nitros around like Benny bloody Hill, made the basement bits slightly easier to bare. The Ice Room free for all, if you defront all the splicers at once and the showers of glitter the accompany Cohen&#039;s first appearance were chucklesome.  

@Jonas  - The real ending to Max Payne 2 will probably make you feel alot less not happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fort Frolic was harilous in parts, getting a big daddy to chase one of the target nitros around like Benny bloody Hill, made the basement bits slightly easier to bare. The Ice Room free for all, if you defront all the splicers at once and the showers of glitter the accompany Cohen&#8217;s first appearance were chucklesome.  </p>
<p>@Jonas  &#8211; The real ending to Max Payne 2 will probably make you feel alot less not happy.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewC</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114397</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114397</guid>
		<description>Emotions come when you are reacting to the game world in a human way and I still think level design is a bit too clunky to deliberately create these emotional reactions. You can still see the &#039;win&#039; conditions and so can&#039;t help but play the mechanics rather than the narrative situation. For example deliberately choosing a dialogue option because it will land you a strength/evil perk or intelligence/good perk rather than because you genuinely want to help or hinder that character. You are emotionally distant. You are treating characters like means to ends.

In fact, most games still demand you have that emotional distance as they would, if you felt you were genuinely &#039;there&#039;, be deeply depressing existential horror stories. The world is collapsed, I am trapped in this corridor, everything wants to kill me and all I can do is run forwards and murder - that&#039;s just horrible. It&#039;s a nightmare. It&#039;s no wonder fear is the emotion games are best at.

So real emotional moments happen, for me, with the accidental stuff, the fringe stuff, the stuff that is not locked into the mechanics. In Fallout 3 watching a trader bodybguard smoke a cigarette joylessly as she followed the shambolic cow into the sunset gave me a strong reaction as it tied in to the isolation and sense of sadness  the world was giving me (and the sense of trudging work some of the mechanics were giving me). I was getting feedback from the game that matched how I was humanly reacting to the world. Hey presto emotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emotions come when you are reacting to the game world in a human way and I still think level design is a bit too clunky to deliberately create these emotional reactions. You can still see the &#8216;win&#8217; conditions and so can&#8217;t help but play the mechanics rather than the narrative situation. For example deliberately choosing a dialogue option because it will land you a strength/evil perk or intelligence/good perk rather than because you genuinely want to help or hinder that character. You are emotionally distant. You are treating characters like means to ends.</p>
<p>In fact, most games still demand you have that emotional distance as they would, if you felt you were genuinely &#8216;there&#8217;, be deeply depressing existential horror stories. The world is collapsed, I am trapped in this corridor, everything wants to kill me and all I can do is run forwards and murder &#8211; that&#8217;s just horrible. It&#8217;s a nightmare. It&#8217;s no wonder fear is the emotion games are best at.</p>
<p>So real emotional moments happen, for me, with the accidental stuff, the fringe stuff, the stuff that is not locked into the mechanics. In Fallout 3 watching a trader bodybguard smoke a cigarette joylessly as she followed the shambolic cow into the sunset gave me a strong reaction as it tied in to the isolation and sense of sadness  the world was giving me (and the sense of trudging work some of the mechanics were giving me). I was getting feedback from the game that matched how I was humanly reacting to the world. Hey presto emotion.</p>
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		<title>By: LionsPhil</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/11/17/retro-where-time-stood-still/comment-page-1/#comment-114379</link>
		<dc:creator>LionsPhil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=5167#comment-114379</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid it did feel like that, somewhat. Possibly because of the heavily-scripted repetition of it; go kill blokey, photo photo, trek back to statue, sit, beg, get reward, off we go again. I&#039;m not saying it was &lt;em&gt;boring&lt;/em&gt;, but it&#039;s not about to challenge, say, Half-Life&#039;s tentacle as a notable level, which was similar in structure (go poke things via a hub).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid it did feel like that, somewhat. Possibly because of the heavily-scripted repetition of it; go kill blokey, photo photo, trek back to statue, sit, beg, get reward, off we go again. I&#8217;m not saying it was <em>boring</em>, but it&#8217;s not about to challenge, say, Half-Life&#8217;s tentacle as a notable level, which was similar in structure (go poke things via a hub).</p>
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