Remember the 80s? They were great, weren’t they? And 1968 was amazing! But who can forget 1471? Man, the past was awesome. All the cool historical events happened back then. Join us now as we spin the Giant Wheel of Time and see which portion of history we’ll nostalgically reflect upon. Ticka-ticka-ticka-tick-tick-tick… tick. Ooh, February 2008!
February 2008
Vince D Weller gets awfully cross.
John: I never meant any harm. Honest guv. But it seems I accidentally started a shitstorm I didn’t even begin to understand. Thank goodness we have a Kieron on board.
Kieron: The idea that anyone should be thankful for me is a little scary, but after John made a few jokes about turn-based combat looking odd Vince and I had an amusingly cross-purpose interview where we were both talking about different things. Still, anyone in videogames development should have cast a glance at the comments thread where dozens of disillusioned RPG-heads found a new hero. Around this time I was talking to Brad Wardell of Stardock, who noted that he was amazed no-one’s done a Baldur’s Gate/Planescape style RPG on a similar budgetry-approach to their Sins of the Solar Empire. The response in Vince’s thread, as well as basic common-sense, suggests he’s right. Maybe Age of Decadence will be it. There’s an observation I recall from a music writer – It may have been Simon Reynolds: that while dilettantes tend to make the best critics, fanatics make the best (as in, the very best) music. Vince is a fanatic, an RPG-activist before going developer and about as hardcore while being human as we can get. I hope he pulls it off – in the same way I hoped Jonathan Blow pulled Braid off – because if he does, it gives him carte blanche to tell everyone to fuck right off.
Jim: I’m really glad we were able to give Vince the opportunity to say his bit. One of the most encouraging thing for about RPS is the outbursts of passion that we occasionally play host to. More of this sort of thing in 2009.
Alec: I feel a little differently about this one. I entirely appreciate Vince’s passion, share several of his sentiments about the genre, and sincerely hope he can realise what he claims AoD will be, but I simply don’t think there’s any call to be that unpleasant about it. I didn’t find it heroic, and I didn’t find it hilarious.
Kieron: I’ve got some sympathy with you here, but… well, I’m not entirely on side with the, “You should like the creator” part of this. I actually think the idea that developers have to say the blandest things possible to avoid offending anyone is a much bigger problem than people being dickish in comments threads. People are always going to be dicks in comments thread – but any time a developer says even a mild opinion they’re dragged over the hot coals of internet flames, and gaming discourse is fatally weakened. If we accepted the idea that developers may be angry, spiteful, driven by their obsessions and as generally as unpleasant as human beings are, we could actually get somewhere. Vince is an extreme case, but people pushing the extremes widens the centres. They a climate where more reasonable developers can say what they’re really thinking without worrying about being torn apart, because they look at people like Vince and realise… Hey! He gets away with it.
Alec: Absolutely. But driven, forceful and illuminating doesn’t have to involve calling people names. I’d like to see an additional precedent set to see where outspoken opinions could take us – was genuinely worried this one was going to lead to a spate of indie devs screaming poison in interviews in the hope it’d get them more attention.
Epic sticks a finger up at the PC.
John: If you were going to try and pinpoint the moment when it all started getting silly this year, I’d say it was this. Epic’s declaration that they didn’t think the PC was worth developing for any more was only slightly undermined by their continuing to develop for the PC. But it began a year of mad outbursts from CliffyB “Don’t Call Me CliffyB” CliffyB that potentially did more harm to the PC’s perception than existed before he started. The PC gamer started having to defend him/herself against the lunatic suggestion that the format was “in disarray”, despite no evidence to make the discussion worthwhile. Hey Jim, why do you keep murdering all those cats? I mean, there’s no evidence that you are, but why do you keep doing it? Defend yourself, man!
Jim: Wasn’t me! Er, a genuinely odd one this. Epic are smart chaps, and then they go and make this kind of irrational noise. I’m hoping that they’ll be imaginative enough to think round the problems they’re currently perceiving, and to bring back some of their original magic to the PC. (That sounded convincing, right guys? Okay, next topic!)
Alec: Yeah, this was one of those flashpoints where it became clear RPS couldn’t solely be, “Whee! PC gaming!” There’s a community that’s hugely defensive of our proud platform, and one of its earlier champions being so dismissive and uninformed really hurt them. I can’t really say it bothers me hugely – while UT2003/4 was a good enough giggle, it’s been a long time since Epic did something that really interested me. That the feeling’s clearly mutual (i.e. me as “average PC gamer”) doesn’t seem a big deal. If someone like Valve started making the same noises – well, then I’d join the flaming pitchfork brigade.
Kieron: I think you’re really strong on the first half of this. As you say, RPS wasn’t created to be an organ for PC advocacy or defence, but it was inchoate comments like Epic’s which started expanding our terrain in that direction. Man!
We all start battling to be best at Kate Bush.
John: I remember having one go and beating both their scores first time. But I’m the cool sort who then just sits back, doesn’t make a fuss, and pretends he doesn’t notice when they immediately take back the lead. Still in first place in my ignorance!
Kieron: Was that around the time when they changed the scoring system? I remember Alec overtaking me then, and I couldn’t work out how he’d managed to jump several thousand points on mono on it. I was wondering whether he’d worked out something to do with missing a block to set up a big combo or something. So, getting my strength together, I went back into the game to discover they’d changed the formula so there were a different set of blocks, meaning you could score more. TOOK THE LEAD AGAIN.
I also gave Paul Barnett a fiver when he started ranting that he thought it was rubbish after buying it on our recommendation. RPS puts our money where our mouths have been. If we’ve been drinking.
Alec: Workman Kieron blames his tools again… Audiosurf took me over for a good month or so, and despite The Bush Wars it was very much about me playing it on my own, trying out a clutch of favourite songs to help rediscover why I loved them in the first place – a pretty profound difference from listening to them now because I know all the words and they’re on my iPod. Definitely one of the year’s best, and a game that felt targeted directly at me, with my geekiness for music and for tech. It is odd that I’ve not been back to it for months, but I’m quite sure I’ll hear some track soon and think “ooh! I wonder…”
Kieron: I actually wrote a comic inspired by playing Wuthering Heights too much in Audiosurf. It’s a game which inspired me, y’know?
Jim: When people talk about Audiosurf I just watch this video.
John: Oh my goodness, that video…
Kieron: I love her.
Alec: I love her more.
The staring eyes of Ken Levine.
Kieron: RPS’ thin-images layout means that occasionally you’re forced to be inspired. Yes, I could have cut it out, reduced it and turned it into a cross-head with text and an illustrative head or something with Photoshop magic. IF I WAS ALEC. Instead, cropping to the eyes and starting another RPS running gag was the only sensible thing to do. Oh – local colour detail. That shot was taken circa Freedom Force in Bath, beside a wall with some WW2 bombing on, by the way. No idea how it became one of the official press shots, as it was totally taken by a Future photographer.
Jim: I once had dinner with Levine and had to sit uncomfortably close to him in the restaurant. He does have beautiful eyes.
Alec: There’s a national poster ad campaign for some mobile phone network – Vodafone, I think – featuring a photo of bloke who looks exactly like Levine would if you photoshopped his eyes to be bigger and further apart. Creeps me out every time I pass it.
Kieron: For the record, Love was one of the most widely linked and most-read RPS stories of all time. Not as much as Sporn, admittedly, but for those who think that people don’t want to read about Indie games it’s worth bearing in mind.
Jim: Fuck me, Eskil is clever. This is going to be awesome.
Alec: I love the look, but have to say I haven’t got a real sense of the game yet. Extremely curious to see more, but fear its beauty is so immense that it’s going to be a terrifying challenge to add mechanics which match that splendour.
February’s noteworthy games:
Conflict: Denied Ops, But Allowed This Joke A Lot
Kieron: Who made up that joke? Was it Alec? I think it was Alec. Good work Alec. My memories of it are somewhat conflicted. Most of me thinks I never played it. Part of me thinks I reviewed it for someone. That I can’t remember which it is says much about how interested or memorable Denied Ops was. But that joke was awesome, Alec.
Jim: Did anyone actually play the game in the end?
Alec: John’s joke, in fact. I reviewed it some magazine, but the write-up was attributed to someone else. Much as my Dawn of War: Soulstorm review was attributed to one ‘Kieran Gillen’ in the same mag. Anyway – desperately mediocre if passingly enjoyable game, which would have been a whole lot better if its two unlovable central characters hadn’t tried to do the Lethal Weapon antagonistic bromance thing. Better voice-acting that Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2, mind.
John: My joke! Mine!
John: Our very first ever Verdict. Aw.
Alec: Still hoping someone takes the same concept and makes it joyously OTT. The right ideas were there, the crazy exploding heads were not.
Penumbra: Black Plague
John: The sequel to the impressively decent Overture was a splendid step forward. Taking Frictional’s engine to where it belonged – combat free, physics puzzle heavy, it was spooky and inspired. The lighting alone was spectacular, which would normally be a horrible geeky thing to say, but this was a game all about atmosphere. It did it rather well.
Alec: I’ve played the first, but not this. Again, it’s on the list. I didn’t think the first game quite pulled off what it was aiming for, but it definitely had the right ingredient potential of physics and menace that I see no reason why this follow-up can’t be marvellous. God, I’ve been especially negative today. Sorry. The cat chewed my foot at 5am, so I’m tired and grumpy. More so than usual, that is.
Related Stories:
Less Angry Internet Men in the comments, more Angry Internet Men getting interviews!
A manual and tutorial omitted important information? Unbelievable.
I always wondered why we never heard about Kieron’s cats. This explains it. Have any of you others considered renting out your cats to him on a weekly time-share basis?
“AoD is vaporware, plain and simple. That game will never be released. He’s been promising imminent release of that game so long that he’s about halfway to Grimoire levels of vaporness. So Vault Dweller aka Vince D. Weller should just be ignored.”
The Age of Decadence is far from being vaporware Ted. You should check out the Unofficial Gallery on their forums. The member responsible for the Unofficial Gallery updates it whenever a new screenshot is released.
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php?topic=341.0
Dorian: I have a variable relationship with all the RPS cats. Except Alec’s which I haven’t met.
KG
I think it’s much easier for gamers to be amused rather than offended by Developers Going Incandescent With Little Provocation because we’ll always be an order of magnitude removed from it. Obviously I can’t speak from experience, but I imagine that I would feel a little hurt (or perturbed, at least) by a Wellersplosion if I were a games journalist, if only due to proximity. Most gaming-related discourse has to flow through people like the RPS hivemind at some point, and when someone angrily declares themselves the only worthwhile voice in a particular field of gaming, I just don’t see how you couldn’t take that a little personally, no matter how professionally dissociated you try to keep yourself. So what I guess what I’m saying is, as a person I agree with Alec, but as a Dorky Internet Man (DIM) who demands entertainment with little regard for its affects on anyone, I’m with Kieron (though my reasoning necessarily differs from his, obv).
Also, I wanted to mention how Weller’s badly, badly written Fallout 3 review for NMA didn’t give me a lot of hope for the literary potential of his game. It’s funny, given his evangelical devotion to games like Planescape and the original Fallouts, I thought Good Writing would have been one of his “buttons.”
Badly, badly written? Care to elaborate?
“I think it’s much easier for gamers to be amused rather than offended by Developers Going Incandescent With Little Provocation because we’ll always be an order of magnitude removed from it.”
fiery interviews can be fun to do, presuming it’s fiery and not, like, violent or something. at the very least you won’t struggle for captivating content.
Holy crap, poor Cheesecake.
Meat Circus: Was that(thince) a No Heroics reference?
I missed the whole Vince D Weller thing, the thread was certainly an interesting read. This comic which Clicky mentioned in said thread had me chuckling. RPS’s first ever webcomic appearance? If so: Aw.
I’m loving this feature by the way, hurrah for RPS.
EDIT: I’M EDITING THIS POST!!! WHY? JUST BECAUSE I CAN
Man, Penumbra still hasn’t come out in a reasonable purchasable package. Oddly enough it does have a $35 pack with all 2.5 games, but only for Mac and Linux @_@.
@Leeks:
Well, I think Vince’s writing is excellent.
Having followed the entire 70-page Let’s Play thread on the AoD forums is part of what got me stoked for the game in the first place. The dialogue is absolutely top-notch, and I can’t think of a better person to be writing a Falloutesque RPG.
As for the review, Leeks, don’t confuse a review with which you disagree, and a badly-written one.
@Vince:
So, 2009 then?
@sbs
No, it’s a Look Around You reference.
Thanks, ants. THANTS.
I’d expect AoD in 2009. Then again, I said that of 2008 too. We’ll see. I see no reason to rush, m’self, so I’m not pushing for an earlier release date
As for the review, I went over it before publishing but saw nothing (except one little note) that needed changing, not in content (not that I agreed 100% with everything but I don’t need to) nor in style. And I’ve worked in the editorial office of a real magazine, so while I don’t want to go all argumentum ad verecundiam on this topic I’d have to hear some real solid points on bad writing before I take such complaints seriously. I could’ve missed something stylistically, but on the outside I’d say it leaps from topic to topic and thought to thought a bit too quickly at one or two points, that’s it.
I know that wall! It’s right by the cinema where I used to work. If I had’ve known Levine had stood there then, well… maybe I would’ve touched it?
I would also love to know what you thought was so badly written about Vince’s Fallout 3 review Leeks. You see, I proofread and edited it for Vince, so if it’s badly written then I did a piss poor job and I simply can’t see it which is rather worrying.
I have found Vince’s review of Fallout3 very well written and reasonably balanced. I wish people would act less from the emotional point of view and more using their reasoning while forming their posts.
Peace
I just got about half through the first page of three of that Fallout 3 review, realized I was getting no useful information about the game while suffering through writing sounding like it came from a middle school book report and stopped reading. Quick note for you guys claiming to be professional editors — punctuation marks come inside, not outside of quotation marks.
This is right: Fallout claims it doesn’t “suck,” but I think it does.
This is wrong: Fallout claims it doesn’t “suck”, but I think it does.
As loathe as I would be to actually give money to Vault Dweller, if AoD actually comes out in 2009, I promise to buy it. I wouldn’t actually play it, but I’ll buy it. I see effectively zero risk of my actually having to make good on that pledge.
“I just got about half through the first page of three of that Fallout 3 review, realized I was getting no useful information about the game”
I believe we have discovered the problem here.
I just stopped reading after the third word, because I wasn’t getting enough information about the game…
:rolling-eyes-smilie:
Ted: “As loathe as I would be to actually give money to Vault Dweller, if AoD actually comes out in 2009, I promise to buy it. I wouldn’t actually play it, but I’ll buy it.”
Loathing someone you disagreed with… It’s so fascinating. Share more with us, Ted.
“I just got about half through the first page of three of that Fallout 3 review, realized I was getting no useful information about the game…”
ADD claims another victim.
I believe I have a review that Ted might benefit from. Here we go:
Sequel to Fallout games only in name. Still quite good. Rubbish ending.
How did I do guys?
I do a lot of writing on a daily basis in my job that thousands of people read. Here’s a tip for people writing in any field. Don’t open up by rambling incoherently for the first 700 words. Very few people are going to stick around for the remaining 2500 words with that approach. Use an introductory paragraph to summarize your points and outline your thoughts. If this is your opening paragraph:
“Fallout 3 is the third instalment [sic]in the award-winning series beloved by children and young adults. The game continues mature themes of exploring a huge world, looting everything that isn’t nailed down, killing anything that looks at you funny, and levelling [sic] up. While there were other games in the series, no one at Bethesda could remember Arena and Daggerfall, so they stuck with Morrowind and Oblivion for the purpose of determining what exactly they “do well”.[sic]”
then you can’t expect many people to be interested enough to keep reading.
Either do this mutual sniping privately or put a lid on it, gentlemen.
Ted, dear, it may come as a surprise to you, what with you being a semi-professional writer and all, but installment usually refers to payments and such, while instalment refers to series and episodes. Of course, people like you tend to mix them up, but that’s a different story.
Levelling is another perfectly acceptable word.
Last, but not the least, “do well” refers to a very well known comment made by Pete Hines. See the quote above the paragraph in question for more clues.
I sincerely hope that my helpful comments would enhance your writing career and brighten up your day.
Alec: “Either do this mutual sniping privately or put a lid on it, gentlemen.”
Where is fun in that?
Oh, RPS, first opening up a forum for this years’ favourite raging discussion bull Vince, and then washing your hands in innocence? How CHEEKY!
Also, I second a tentative date for AoD from Vince.
There’s a big difference between impassioned grandstanding on our invitation and a couple of strangers spitting at each other about something only tangentially related to this post. If anyone’s desperate to continue trading blows over Vince’s F3 review, please take it politely to the forums.
I beg to differ. The whole AoD thread was largely not about how RPGs should be done. Although this is a highly controversial topic, we all know that these genre formulas mean nothing in themselves and we just fill them with totally subjective meaning to reduce the uncertainty around us. Had the people on Vince’s thread really discussed what RPG means to everyone, the thread would have lasted only 30 posts or so.
The thread was rather about Vince liking turn based tactics and bering vocal about it, and it quickly moved from a debate about Apples and Oranges to an all out character sniping fest. Vince was smart enough to just be vocal about his own preferences, because he as the diabolical mastermind of flaming knew that someone would take any kind of confidence as arrogance, and when that person surfaced, he didn’t even have to rotate the main guns.
Vince’s interview was a total flame bait, because everyone knows, being vocal about design choices without constantly stressing the obvious – that your preferences aren’t the end all to design – will instantly draw those of low self esteem and high frustration to it, as the anglerfish’s dorsal fin does with the smaller predators.
The AOD post and thread alike was all about Vince. This post, by contrast, has nothing to do with the grammatical virtues of Vince’s Fallout 3 review, and neither should the thread – that kind of thing is why we created the forum.
That is most reasonable, however I was happy that people made the effort to find new flaming material, because that combat preferences thing’s punchlines had all been used. Anyway, WHAT’S THE TENTATIVE DATE VINCE?
“Jochen Scheisse says:
Also, I second a tentative date for AoD from Vince.”
When it’s done. I’d rather avoid making educated guesses because they tend to be taken as written in stone promises.
The official status is “in development” aka vaporware. We are planning to release a combat demo in about 3 months, so that should give people something to do while we are tweaking the rest.
Edit: The combat demo will be set in a city district (so you’ll be able to see what towns look like). You’ll fight all kinda scum in a local arena, loot dead bodies, sell & buy better junk, commission special weapons, etc.
Cool. If you have one or two spare years, please make the combat demo multiplayerable, so we can pit different builds of heroes against each other.
I’m allergic to multiplayer, unfortunately.
Most unfortunately. The feedback from that would probably be a big help to balance the combat types, though.
I don’t want to make any claims regarding how my love for Kate Bush compares to anyone else’s, but…
I still hold the crown.