Yes, you can get basically any media for free these days. That’s indisputable. If, in the absence of a “freely available” version of work x, you would not buy it; if that becomes an option, and you then take it, it can’t be equated to a lost sale. From where I’m standing, that’s indisputable.

So far as I can tell, then, any disagreement is based on application, not on the reasoning. It depends on your assumptions regarding how ethically the population in general will respond. If someone’s not ethical they’ll take whatever they want and let everyone else bear the burden of cost. If someone holds themselves to a standard then there’s no conflict.

But to continue from there is to delve into a rather contentious philosophical argument about morality. Suffice it to say that you’ve got your assumptions and I’ve got mine. Working with the same facts, we’ll draw different conclusions. I like to delude myself into thinking I present a fairly articulate case, but somehow I doubt we’ll be convincing each other of anything any time soon.

I’m not overly concerned with why people pirate games. There is, I imagine, a number of why’s and some (like myself) don’t even have one.

…Ah, according to XE, it’s about 106 AU (from 70 US). Thank you market crash! Even the bricks-and-mortars don’t gouge you like that. I wouldn’t pay half of that for FO3, but maybe that’s just me.

…Ditto CoD4, which is still going for 90 AU! Well, it’s us who dictate the prices in the end…

And really, doesn’t it make perfect sense that someone would afford the hardware but not the games? I mean, working with a fixed amount of money, would you rather have a) a good system and lots of pirated games; b) a mediocre system and a handful of games; or c) no system and lots of games? Well? Tough call, eh?

I’m sorry but if you are selling property , intellectual or not, then you have no say what the person is allowed to do post purchase. Sure replication should be limited for commercial gain but not to the extent of telling people what they are allowed to have installed on their pc or including limitations to how many times you can install it.

Groups don’t actually release anything to torrents (besides n00bs/homebrew). There are other ppl down the chain that do that. Nor do they care if anyone actually d/l’s the game. All they care about is being 1st to crack it/releasing it, for credits to topsites and their own elitism.

Sometimes I wished the scene would close shop for a few months just to see all the crying on torrent sites and for people to get a clue.

Piracy has its good and bad points. Not everyone on the planet gets games cheap and while someone in the States is going “man its only $30″ someone else is Australia is “farking $100 for a gamE?” or some Asian countries where they sell them for $10 a pop to try and stop the illegal street stores. So buying 10games a year can be unrealistic for some ppl thus they will buy afew games and pirate others.

The publishers and middleman are really ripping us off generally and slowly due to DD we are finally getting some savings but for a NOBOX edition we are still getting ripped off. The problem isn’t something that will change overnight but it is a complex problem with “industrial age” mentality execs vs “information age” and since we are still in the early days of the Info age, it be still awhile till things change as a whole.

Some games get good support after the game is released so anything broken gets fixed with patches and others get little to no support(be it because the company went under or they moved onto another game) and a broken game remains broke(or if you are lucky and happen to have a dedicated community behind the game) like GPx series etc Alot of ppl(like me) have been burnt this way. You have to learn it the hard way tho.

Some games are single player 10hr, little replay affairs and they want to charge the same price as a game that you can play for years and years ie: adventure vs FPS. (another major problem how do use measure value for money in games).

Some games have no demos and ppl will d/l a pirated game or app to evaluate it b4 buying(which is one of the main advantages for a scene release). Sometimes the demos don’t represent the actual final game or something major has changed since the demo and ppl need to re-evaluate.

Some ppl are just mad tightasses and cry about how expensive everything is and wont ever buy any game ever because they are poor BUT they still have the money to spend $$$ on vidcards and quadcores(yeah go figure). Half that list of games provided are some of the most demanding graphical games. Tho again this can come back to what they perceive as value for money.

I think after playing afew MMO’s now like WOW/WAR etc the ~$11-$15/mth mark should be how most games should be sold(well i still get taken to the cleaners for the $100BOX).. Pay as you play will prob become reality more so in the future as current DRM dies and something replaces it(something has to replace it). Something like STEAM. Tho again Audiosurf was only $9.99 and I still play it now 9mths later where as Portal was… part of Orange Box, played the full game and never played it again… Soo I guess I need to work out the kinks with that idea :)

Then we have the “insert CD/DVD” games where the game must be in the tray at all times. While I never believe clowns that say “i scratched it” or “i lost it” having the option to not have the CD in the tray is nice esp when the drive is also used as a burner and dvd player and it can getting annoying. Some game developers eventually give in and offer patched versions but again it depends on how much after box support they provide. Cracks provide this option.

I know some ppl like playing games just to be the “1st” to finish then spending hrs on forums telling us how cool they are and all the flaws the game has and why they are glad they didn’t pay for the game, not really playing the game and moving on to the next game b4 you get a chance to finish installing it. They don’t see any value in any game, I don’t think these ppl hurt the sales.

Some ppl are just collectors, much like stamps and sports cards in the good old days they now collect warez and rarely actually play the games they get. Same deal I don’t think they would buy these games but since they have the means they do it, maybe a drug fix :)

You can mix and match the above with everyone here I think. Everyone has tried it for different reasons a mix of the above whatever but the main jist of it is that the PC games industry needs an overhaul and when publishers complain its piracy that caused the company to fall over, blah blah, for me it sounds like just another excuse for not fixing the real problems lets blame the pirates. Piracy has been around since the 80’s! and it hasn’t stopped M$ and EA making billions. It’s not a new problem just that more people have access to it.

Finally to the ppl that mentioned that they d/l the full “pirated” game to get a “backup” LOOL!! Pirated games aren’t some magical version! They are either CLONECD/DVD versions of the game you just bought or they have injected the “crack” into the ISO. Save your bandwidth! just d/l the crack from gamecopyworld (b4 torrents! OMG) esp if you don’t want DRM or if you want to remove the “no cd” check. The releases don’t provide legit keys for on-line play(usually) only to actually install the game. So if you happen to have a legit version and happen to use a crack because you don’t want DRM, its OK ;)

(i only intended to make mention that torrents/sites don’t really represent the scene in anyway or its the only place to get things, as its been mentioned here and PCG mag b4, consider it a letter to the editor that I never bothered sending haha).

Totally.