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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Ultimate Star Wars Game&#8221; Old Republic Footage</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/</link>
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		<title>By: bazzy</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-124638</link>
		<dc:creator>bazzy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-124638</guid>
		<description>&lt;q&gt;Also i didn’t see any other classes other than jedi fighting in the preview. Now admittedly i haven’t been reading up on this game, but if jedi are the only playable character then im out. I LOVE jedi, but lets not forget the Fett, he just goes to show that you can be cool with the just guns and a will to kick some ass.&lt;/q&gt;

This is why I don&#039;t think such a game will ever work (for me, at least). To truly capture the star wars feel, you need to have the option of being a Jedi and facing overwhelming odds (waves of stormtroopers/clone warriors/etc), if EVERYONE is a Sith/Jedi then they&#039;re no longer special, everyone may as well be an Ewok, you&#039;re all equally matched. 

The only way this could work is if you could somehow incentivise people to play as the cannon fodder, but how do you do that? Give them awesome equipment/phat loots and you&#039;ll soon be back to square 1. You could perhaps have people play two distinct characters and allow them to build up time (ten hours as a bog standard trooper buys you an hour with your Jedi), this theoretically would mean the ratio of Jedi to everyone else is 10:1, but how do you ensure the 10 hours is productive and not just the PC running overnight, or that your Jedi time doesn&#039;t run out during an important quest, etc. I just can&#039;t see a way to make it work, unless we pay everyone in China WoW gold to play as grunts... hmm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><q>Also i didn’t see any other classes other than jedi fighting in the preview. Now admittedly i haven’t been reading up on this game, but if jedi are the only playable character then im out. I LOVE jedi, but lets not forget the Fett, he just goes to show that you can be cool with the just guns and a will to kick some ass.</q></p>
<p>This is why I don&#8217;t think such a game will ever work (for me, at least). To truly capture the star wars feel, you need to have the option of being a Jedi and facing overwhelming odds (waves of stormtroopers/clone warriors/etc), if EVERYONE is a Sith/Jedi then they&#8217;re no longer special, everyone may as well be an Ewok, you&#8217;re all equally matched. </p>
<p>The only way this could work is if you could somehow incentivise people to play as the cannon fodder, but how do you do that? Give them awesome equipment/phat loots and you&#8217;ll soon be back to square 1. You could perhaps have people play two distinct characters and allow them to build up time (ten hours as a bog standard trooper buys you an hour with your Jedi), this theoretically would mean the ratio of Jedi to everyone else is 10:1, but how do you ensure the 10 hours is productive and not just the PC running overnight, or that your Jedi time doesn&#8217;t run out during an important quest, etc. I just can&#8217;t see a way to make it work, unless we pay everyone in China WoW gold to play as grunts&#8230; hmm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jon</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-124296</link>
		<dc:creator>jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-124296</guid>
		<description>But can I be a Han Solo style smuggler and have a pet Wookie?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But can I be a Han Solo style smuggler and have a pet Wookie?</p>
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		<title>By: Bobsy</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-124159</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-124159</guid>
		<description>History is a story. It is THE story.

(I took a history degree. Can you tell?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>History is a story. It is THE story.</p>
<p>(I took a history degree. Can you tell?)</p>
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		<title>By: Eamo</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-124115</link>
		<dc:creator>Eamo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-124115</guid>
		<description>Everytime I hear them say something like &quot;we made choice so important, every choice you make impacts your character&quot; I hear &quot;we won&#039;t allow you to respec and you will have to start over from level 1 if you want to change anything about your character&quot;, choice that limits your options is not fun in an MMO.

As for people claiming EVE has story solved, for your first month playing EVE you won&#039;t encounter any story whatsoever. The fact that you can capture regions of space and develop your own corporations isn&#039;t story, it is game mechanics. 

In the EVE universe things change but that isn&#039;t really a story. It is just the passing of time. I am sure a few players could recite the history of big corporations and alliances in EVE but it is not a story. It is just history. Without narrative arcs, without plot twists, without character development it isn&#039;t a story, just a sequence of events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everytime I hear them say something like &#8220;we made choice so important, every choice you make impacts your character&#8221; I hear &#8220;we won&#8217;t allow you to respec and you will have to start over from level 1 if you want to change anything about your character&#8221;, choice that limits your options is not fun in an MMO.</p>
<p>As for people claiming EVE has story solved, for your first month playing EVE you won&#8217;t encounter any story whatsoever. The fact that you can capture regions of space and develop your own corporations isn&#8217;t story, it is game mechanics. </p>
<p>In the EVE universe things change but that isn&#8217;t really a story. It is just the passing of time. I am sure a few players could recite the history of big corporations and alliances in EVE but it is not a story. It is just history. Without narrative arcs, without plot twists, without character development it isn&#8217;t a story, just a sequence of events.</p>
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		<title>By: Larington</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-124042</link>
		<dc:creator>Larington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-124042</guid>
		<description>Bearing in mind that recent 10 page piracy article, maybe the people saying this sounds like a single player RPG as an MMO are more correct than they realise - That its at least in part Bioware being forced to adopt an alternative business model in order to ensure the game gives a proper return on investment (In otherwords, so the game sells well enough that it doesn&#039;t potentially kill the developer).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bearing in mind that recent 10 page piracy article, maybe the people saying this sounds like a single player RPG as an MMO are more correct than they realise &#8211; That its at least in part Bioware being forced to adopt an alternative business model in order to ensure the game gives a proper return on investment (In otherwords, so the game sells well enough that it doesn&#8217;t potentially kill the developer).</p>
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		<title>By: myname</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-124013</link>
		<dc:creator>myname</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-124013</guid>
		<description>They really need to take MMO&#039;s out of the quest/kill grind - make the story and progression the player&#039;s, not &quot;the game&#039;s&quot;. That&#039;s why skill based level systems are the way ahead. 
As someone above on this page said, let the players create the stories and the content, and then &quot;lift&quot; that to everybody&#039;s attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They really need to take MMO&#8217;s out of the quest/kill grind &#8211; make the story and progression the player&#8217;s, not &#8220;the game&#8217;s&#8221;. That&#8217;s why skill based level systems are the way ahead.<br />
As someone above on this page said, let the players create the stories and the content, and then &#8220;lift&#8221; that to everybody&#8217;s attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobsy</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-123964</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-123964</guid>
		<description>Anyone saying Eve doesn&#039;t have story is a big pile of super-wrong I&#039;m afraid. Eve&#039;s story is player-driven, the constant gnashing of empires built and populated by players grinding up against each other.

Put as simply as my Monday-brain can get it: &lt;i&gt;a story does not have to have been written down first&lt;/i&gt;.

There is hope for the future, a ludicrously over-ambitious hope at that. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.infinity-universe.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Infinity! Inf! In! Ih! Tee!&lt;/a&gt; But beyond that... eh.

Frankly, I&#039;m not holding much hope for TOR. I don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; it to fail, because it would lose Bioware money, but at the same time I don&#039;t particularly feel any urge to play it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone saying Eve doesn&#8217;t have story is a big pile of super-wrong I&#8217;m afraid. Eve&#8217;s story is player-driven, the constant gnashing of empires built and populated by players grinding up against each other.</p>
<p>Put as simply as my Monday-brain can get it: <i>a story does not have to have been written down first</i>.</p>
<p>There is hope for the future, a ludicrously over-ambitious hope at that. <a href="http://www.infinity-universe.com" rel="nofollow">Infinity! Inf! In! Ih! Tee!</a> But beyond that&#8230; eh.</p>
<p>Frankly, I&#8217;m not holding much hope for TOR. I don&#8217;t <i>want</i> it to fail, because it would lose Bioware money, but at the same time I don&#8217;t particularly feel any urge to play it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lu-Tze</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-123963</link>
		<dc:creator>Lu-Tze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-123963</guid>
		<description>Taking all bets on ratio of Sith to Jedi. Current favourite is 10:1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking all bets on ratio of Sith to Jedi. Current favourite is 10:1.</p>
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		<title>By: tmp</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-123796</link>
		<dc:creator>tmp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-123796</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Lightsabers cut through anything - anything - thus having a wild swinging contest between two combatants won’t ever work.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It did work in two KotOR games so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Lightsabers cut through anything &#8211; anything &#8211; thus having a wild swinging contest between two combatants won’t ever work.</p></blockquote>
<p>It did work in two KotOR games so far.</p>
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		<title>By: MrMelons</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-123761</link>
		<dc:creator>MrMelons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-123761</guid>
		<description>@Neil

*CLAPCLAPCLAP* Bravo good man, just read your comment and i hope for that day to come as well. Just remember that the gaming industry isn&#039;t about story anymore, that died when games moved on from 16bit when they needed a story for lack of graphics. Now everything just needs to be pretty and have achievements that make you feel like you have done something that day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Neil</p>
<p>*CLAPCLAPCLAP* Bravo good man, just read your comment and i hope for that day to come as well. Just remember that the gaming industry isn&#8217;t about story anymore, that died when games moved on from 16bit when they needed a story for lack of graphics. Now everything just needs to be pretty and have achievements that make you feel like you have done something that day.</p>
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		<title>By: MrMelons</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-123759</link>
		<dc:creator>MrMelons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-123759</guid>
		<description>After KOTOR 2, where i pretty much had every decision i had made in KOTOR 1 and 2 dicked by some stupid witch who &quot;sumed&quot; it all up for me, i&#039;ve been skeptical of a 3rd KOTOR. Am i going to hit high level beat the big bad and then be told im going off into deep space after that last 2 KOTOR heroes? But its okay my choices will determine whether im good or not when i do go out there and leave everything i worked for behind. 

Also i didn&#039;t see any other classes other than jedi fighting in the preview. Now admittedly i haven&#039;t been reading up on this game, but if jedi are the only playable character then im out. I LOVE jedi, but lets not forget the Fett, he just goes to show that you can be cool with the just guns and a will to kick some ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After KOTOR 2, where i pretty much had every decision i had made in KOTOR 1 and 2 dicked by some stupid witch who &#8220;sumed&#8221; it all up for me, i&#8217;ve been skeptical of a 3rd KOTOR. Am i going to hit high level beat the big bad and then be told im going off into deep space after that last 2 KOTOR heroes? But its okay my choices will determine whether im good or not when i do go out there and leave everything i worked for behind. </p>
<p>Also i didn&#8217;t see any other classes other than jedi fighting in the preview. Now admittedly i haven&#8217;t been reading up on this game, but if jedi are the only playable character then im out. I LOVE jedi, but lets not forget the Fett, he just goes to show that you can be cool with the just guns and a will to kick some ass.</p>
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		<title>By: Erlam</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/13/ultimate-star-wars-game-old-republic-footage/comment-page-2/#comment-123751</link>
		<dc:creator>Erlam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6209#comment-123751</guid>
		<description>&quot;They should have developed a system where all attacks that players make to one another are matched and blocked, (even successful attacks) but successful attacks take away - not life - but an energy of some sort.&quot;

Despite all the story comments, all the &#039;but it doesn&#039;t LOOK like starwars,&#039; etc, I think the above will be the largest problem with the game.

Look at the (real) star wars movies. In all three, lightsabers are used sparingly, and end fights fast. If you are going to include them, you have to do something like the above mentioned, which people (including myself) have asked for before. 

Lightsabers cut through anything - &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; - thus having a wild swinging contest between two combatants won&#039;t ever work. Starwars was largely about the Empire vs. the Rebellion, and how that happened. This is a Starwars game about the books, basically, which will significantly shrink the larger userbase. If you asked the average person who was between 20-40 what Starwars was about, how many of them would mention anything related to this game?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They should have developed a system where all attacks that players make to one another are matched and blocked, (even successful attacks) but successful attacks take away &#8211; not life &#8211; but an energy of some sort.&#8221;</p>
<p>Despite all the story comments, all the &#8216;but it doesn&#8217;t LOOK like starwars,&#8217; etc, I think the above will be the largest problem with the game.</p>
<p>Look at the (real) star wars movies. In all three, lightsabers are used sparingly, and end fights fast. If you are going to include them, you have to do something like the above mentioned, which people (including myself) have asked for before. </p>
<p>Lightsabers cut through anything &#8211; <i>anything</i> &#8211; thus having a wild swinging contest between two combatants won&#8217;t ever work. Starwars was largely about the Empire vs. the Rebellion, and how that happened. This is a Starwars game about the books, basically, which will significantly shrink the larger userbase. If you asked the average person who was between 20-40 what Starwars was about, how many of them would mention anything related to this game?</p>
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