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	<title>Comments on: Eve Exploit Summary</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/</link>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-126761</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-126761</guid>
		<description>Latest news is that so far 178 starbases have been removed. That&#039;s a lot. 

What this means:
Control of a system is determined by having 51% of the moons in that system controlled by having a starbase at them. Without the starbases you lose control of the system and this can be seen on the in-game map. This means that it will soon be possible to see the areas of Eve that were used the most for this exploit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Latest news is that so far 178 starbases have been removed. That&#8217;s a lot. </p>
<p>What this means:<br />
Control of a system is determined by having 51% of the moons in that system controlled by having a starbase at them. Without the starbases you lose control of the system and this can be seen on the in-game map. This means that it will soon be possible to see the areas of Eve that were used the most for this exploit.</p>
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		<title>By: GrayGhost</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125489</link>
		<dc:creator>GrayGhost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 05:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125489</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s just a bug. It doesn&#039;t deserve a ban. I remember playing the beta of Saga of Ryzom back in the day when gunsmiths could manufacture rifle ammo at for $25 and sell it back to NPC merchants for $5,000. If you had dedicated enough time and effort into gun smithing skills and manufacturing mass quantities of ammo (took time!) you became a very rich player and a rich uncle to newbies.

You might think that this upset game balance tremendously, but really it just enabled players to experience the more enjoyable parts of the game sooner, rather than having to grind for untold hours in order to afford that new armor. Eventually the devs &quot;fixed&quot; the profit margin to a point where ammo was so expensive to make or buy that gun wielding classes had been completely nerfed and the characters we had all worked so hard on were rendered unplayable. Ryzom is now defunct. I think if you come down too hard on people who are just trying to use what you&#039;ve given them to their advantage, you&#039;re going to fix your game into the ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s just a bug. It doesn&#8217;t deserve a ban. I remember playing the beta of Saga of Ryzom back in the day when gunsmiths could manufacture rifle ammo at for $25 and sell it back to NPC merchants for $5,000. If you had dedicated enough time and effort into gun smithing skills and manufacturing mass quantities of ammo (took time!) you became a very rich player and a rich uncle to newbies.</p>
<p>You might think that this upset game balance tremendously, but really it just enabled players to experience the more enjoyable parts of the game sooner, rather than having to grind for untold hours in order to afford that new armor. Eventually the devs &#8220;fixed&#8221; the profit margin to a point where ammo was so expensive to make or buy that gun wielding classes had been completely nerfed and the characters we had all worked so hard on were rendered unplayable. Ryzom is now defunct. I think if you come down too hard on people who are just trying to use what you&#8217;ve given them to their advantage, you&#8217;re going to fix your game into the ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Devin</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125243</link>
		<dc:creator>Devin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125243</guid>
		<description>Zergl,

You&#039;re assuming that the &quot;dupes&quot; were sole proprietors of these starbases.  That&#039;s not likely the case.

I spent about a year as, roughly speaking, second or third in command of a hundred-pilot corporation in a couple of major alliances, and I can tell you that it would have been easy for me to cover up something like this.

All you do is, you tell someone &quot;Yeah, the starbase needs fuel.  I put the fuel in the corp hangar at the outpost, can you take it over to the starbase, and while you&#039;re there, grab the ferrogel from the array and bring it back?  You&#039;ll need to start another batch of ferrogel too, but the materials are already in the array, we carrier-jumped them straight there.&quot;

See, he doesn&#039;t know whether the materials are there because they got carrier-jumped in, or there because they were never used up because of this exploit.

This is also a pretty typical scenario.  When we ran manufacturing starbases, we usually had one group of pilots responsible for fueling the starbase itself, a different group bringing in the minerals to build the ships, and a third group that ran the build jobs and moved the finished product to market.  Each of those activities has certain requirements in terms of time, organization, and logistics, and so while a few people were involved in all aspects, most just helped out with one or two things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zergl,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re assuming that the &#8220;dupes&#8221; were sole proprietors of these starbases.  That&#8217;s not likely the case.</p>
<p>I spent about a year as, roughly speaking, second or third in command of a hundred-pilot corporation in a couple of major alliances, and I can tell you that it would have been easy for me to cover up something like this.</p>
<p>All you do is, you tell someone &#8220;Yeah, the starbase needs fuel.  I put the fuel in the corp hangar at the outpost, can you take it over to the starbase, and while you&#8217;re there, grab the ferrogel from the array and bring it back?  You&#8217;ll need to start another batch of ferrogel too, but the materials are already in the array, we carrier-jumped them straight there.&#8221;</p>
<p>See, he doesn&#8217;t know whether the materials are there because they got carrier-jumped in, or there because they were never used up because of this exploit.</p>
<p>This is also a pretty typical scenario.  When we ran manufacturing starbases, we usually had one group of pilots responsible for fueling the starbase itself, a different group bringing in the minerals to build the ships, and a third group that ran the build jobs and moved the finished product to market.  Each of those activities has certain requirements in terms of time, organization, and logistics, and so while a few people were involved in all aspects, most just helped out with one or two things.</p>
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		<title>By: Axiin</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125196</link>
		<dc:creator>Axiin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125196</guid>
		<description>Nice, I was wondering we got a Concord notice informing us that one of our corp mates was killed due to complecations. This was the same guy who was super rich and telling me &quot;It&#039;s easy to make money in this game you just have to know how&quot; and when I asked how he responded with &quot;I have my secrets&quot;

Very nice. I&#039;m glad he got his.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice, I was wondering we got a Concord notice informing us that one of our corp mates was killed due to complecations. This was the same guy who was super rich and telling me &#8220;It&#8217;s easy to make money in this game you just have to know how&#8221; and when I asked how he responded with &#8220;I have my secrets&#8221;</p>
<p>Very nice. I&#8217;m glad he got his.</p>
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		<title>By: DSX</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125183</link>
		<dc:creator>DSX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125183</guid>
		<description>Once again Eve provides a better observation and analytical discussion then actual player experience, imho (=</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again Eve provides a better observation and analytical discussion then actual player experience, imho (=</p>
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		<title>By: AlexMax</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125148</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexMax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125148</guid>
		<description>@Lactose

Impossible to get into?  No, in fact they&#039;ve made it far easier to &#039;get into&#039; as the years have gone by, with a much nicer tutorial and more stuff to do in Empire space.

Not for everybody?  Yeah, it&#039;s still not going to be pulling anybody away from raiding anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lactose</p>
<p>Impossible to get into?  No, in fact they&#8217;ve made it far easier to &#8216;get into&#8217; as the years have gone by, with a much nicer tutorial and more stuff to do in Empire space.</p>
<p>Not for everybody?  Yeah, it&#8217;s still not going to be pulling anybody away from raiding anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: TooNu</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125144</link>
		<dc:creator>TooNu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125144</guid>
		<description>Well speculation aside, I am glad they did at least do something. It appears as if they took this seriously and banning 70 accounts in a game with 33,000 players on at any given time is a bit &quot;meh&quot; i guess to their bankroll. 
 I still fail to beleive that only 70 people were involved. I still beleive that the vast majority of them are scapegoats for the real people organising and saying what&#039;s what in a large alliance.

My guess is 10-15 of these people are actually responsible and the rest are mere workers maintaining a poss, again, speculation.

Thanks for the report Jim, I was wondering if you would do this at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well speculation aside, I am glad they did at least do something. It appears as if they took this seriously and banning 70 accounts in a game with 33,000 players on at any given time is a bit &#8220;meh&#8221; i guess to their bankroll.<br />
 I still fail to beleive that only 70 people were involved. I still beleive that the vast majority of them are scapegoats for the real people organising and saying what&#8217;s what in a large alliance.</p>
<p>My guess is 10-15 of these people are actually responsible and the rest are mere workers maintaining a poss, again, speculation.</p>
<p>Thanks for the report Jim, I was wondering if you would do this at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: LactoseTheIntolerant</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125121</link>
		<dc:creator>LactoseTheIntolerant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125121</guid>
		<description>This is delicious. A lovely little scandal. I love how complex a game EVE is. I&#039;ve never played it and feel it would be impossible to get into now, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is delicious. A lovely little scandal. I love how complex a game EVE is. I&#8217;ve never played it and feel it would be impossible to get into now, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125106</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125106</guid>
		<description>Having spent the majority of my time in EVE spending my days trading, speculating and entering non-consensual pvp [because that&#039;s just how cut throat the EVE market is] I think CCP are playing this down far too much, I&#039;ve just read over on Massively.com that this exploit comprised 35% of the Ferrogel market. If that is truly the case this exploit netted those involved horrendous amounts of isk. I&#039;ve traded in Ferrogel, I&#039;ve run the numbers and have the spreadsheets telling me that Ferrogel is a fantastic money earner, the ill gotten gains from this exploit could easily have financed many motherships for the alliances and corps involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having spent the majority of my time in EVE spending my days trading, speculating and entering non-consensual pvp [because that's just how cut throat the EVE market is] I think CCP are playing this down far too much, I&#8217;ve just read over on Massively.com that this exploit comprised 35% of the Ferrogel market. If that is truly the case this exploit netted those involved horrendous amounts of isk. I&#8217;ve traded in Ferrogel, I&#8217;ve run the numbers and have the spreadsheets telling me that Ferrogel is a fantastic money earner, the ill gotten gains from this exploit could easily have financed many motherships for the alliances and corps involved.</p>
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		<title>By: zergl</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125098</link>
		<dc:creator>zergl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125098</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;OP&quot;&gt;Discussions within the game suggested that quite a few of them didn’t even realise that what they were doing shouldn’t have been possible in the game. Eve’s starbases are fairly complicated anyway, and it would have taken careful attention to realise they weren’t working as intended.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You&#039;d have to be pretty thick to not realize that something that&#039;s supposed to take expensive stuffs A+B to turn them into even more expensive stuff C without using up A+B is NOT intended gameplay mechanic, tbh.
Not noticing doesn&#039;t count as you have to fuel the POS and empty the output silos, so no &quot;I&#039;ve not looked at it for a month and then all the stuff was here&quot;.

If any of the banned folks actually believed that, EVE&#039;s IQ has gone up quite a bit thanks to the bans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="OP"><p>Discussions within the game suggested that quite a few of them didn’t even realise that what they were doing shouldn’t have been possible in the game. Eve’s starbases are fairly complicated anyway, and it would have taken careful attention to realise they weren’t working as intended.</p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;d have to be pretty thick to not realize that something that&#8217;s supposed to take expensive stuffs A+B to turn them into even more expensive stuff C without using up A+B is NOT intended gameplay mechanic, tbh.<br />
Not noticing doesn&#8217;t count as you have to fuel the POS and empty the output silos, so no &#8220;I&#8217;ve not looked at it for a month and then all the stuff was here&#8221;.</p>
<p>If any of the banned folks actually believed that, EVE&#8217;s IQ has gone up quite a bit thanks to the bans.</p>
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		<title>By: Acosta</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125092</link>
		<dc:creator>Acosta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125092</guid>
		<description>I meant &quot;Madoff&quot; of course, sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant &#8220;Madoff&#8221; of course, sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Acosta</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/12/17/eve-exploit-summary/comment-page-1/#comment-125085</link>
		<dc:creator>Acosta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=6326#comment-125085</guid>
		<description>When in real life, with real money, stuff like the Mastiff scandal can happens, I&#039;m not surprised such things happens in a game like Eve, it even makes it more exciting. Wish I wasn&#039;t so much out of the loop to play it, I guess joining at this point is kinda worthless now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When in real life, with real money, stuff like the Mastiff scandal can happens, I&#8217;m not surprised such things happens in a game like Eve, it even makes it more exciting. Wish I wasn&#8217;t so much out of the loop to play it, I guess joining at this point is kinda worthless now.</p>
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