By John Walker on December 19th, 2008 at 11:25 pm.
The rumours were true, Spore has arrived on Steam. And it’s brought with it a collection of EA games, making their first appearance on Valve’s monolithic download service. Along with it comes MMO Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, racer Need For Speed Undercover, Bioware’s Mass Effect, and FIFA Manager 2009. Oh, unless you don’t live in the US or Canada. Sigh. Although apparently EA doesn’t know about this.
There’s been some confusion somewhere along the line. In the press release announcing EA’s arrival on Steam, Valve states (our emphases),
“Valve today announced Spore, Spore Creepy & Cute Parts Pack, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Mass Effect, Need for Speed Undercover and EA SPORTS FIFA Manager 2009 are available now to gamers in the United States and Canada via Steam.”
Which is then immediately followed by a completely contradictory quote from EA’s John Pleasants, their President, Global Publishing & Chief Operating Officer.
“We are pleased to extend our holiday titles to gamers worldwide via Steam…”
It seems Valve’s version is the more realistic, as none of EA’s games have appeared on EuroSteam. So are EA jumping on board the Train Of Madness with Ubisoft (with the exception of Far Cry 2) and Atari, where they won’t make their games available internationally?
The very recent launch of both European and UK versions of Steam, charging unique prices – and EU readers, we’re very aware of quite how unique the Euro pricing is, and will try to get some answers – means publishers can now charge their increased prices for us abroad types, surely making international sales a more likely prospect?
Before the brand new localised Steams, you could understand EA’s fear of undercutting their own highly priced download site. For example, incredibly Spore is still priced at £40 on the EA Store, despite being available almost everywhere else at £30 or less. Direct2Drive have it at £28.22 – which also also recognises the drop in VAT.
However, if they want Spore at £40 on Steam, they can have that. So why not? We’ve contacted EA and Valve to see if there are any answers, and will let you know as soon as we hear anything.
EA plan to put Mirror’s Edge, Red Alert 3 and Dead Space on Steam in coming weeks, but those outside of the US/Canada probably shouldn’t hold their breath. Unless they’re underwater, when it’s essential.
19/12/2008 at 23:45 Ben Abraham says:
Mirrors Edge? It’s not even out for PC yet and they’re thinking of putting it on steam! Hmm…
19/12/2008 at 23:46 lumpi says:
Of course, sending BITS to Europe is 35% more expensive than sending the same BITS to the USA.
I didn’t even get the argument for inflated hardware prices of hardware in Europe. Isn’t China (where it is produced) less travel time to the EU than it is to the US?
F#% IP-discrimination.
19/12/2008 at 23:47 Steve says:
It still comes with the nasty install limits, does it not? Kind of defeats the entire point of Steam, really.
19/12/2008 at 23:48 Nimic says:
This is good news if it actually is worldwide. Or, this is good news if it is worldwide and Steam changes the ludicrous EU pricing (and I say EU loosely; Norway isn’t even in the EU, let alone use the Euro, and we don’t pay VAT on digital purchases)
19/12/2008 at 23:51 Del Boy says:
Nice header image.
19/12/2008 at 23:51 TheDeadlyShoe says:
Is Steam pricing determined by the publisher or the store? I need to apportion blame.
19/12/2008 at 23:53 Rei Onryou says:
Sell games at one of the most popular digital download services available. Marketing genius!
Sell to a minimum number of people at extortionate prices and blame low sales on p[uppies - Arrrr Ed]. Typical game publisher. ¬_¬
I hope the lack of world love gets resolved soon and all the publishers learn the error of their ways. Of course, unless the spirits of Christmas past, present and future visit the CEOs of EA/Ubi/Atari, I doubt very much anything will happen.
Of course, is this EA realising that their own digital distribution channel is useless? At least those in North America won’t have to pay extra to download their games in 2 years time…
19/12/2008 at 23:56 John Walker says:
TheDeadlyShoe – Valve are always very quick to make it clear that prices and territories are determined by the publisher.
19/12/2008 at 23:56 rupert says:
if ea do go full on with this then hopefully there dire store downloader app thing will die
19/12/2008 at 23:57 Mark says:
Did they strip the redundant copy protection from their Steam releases, or are we going to have to put up with the same kind of stupidity that we got from the Bioshock release?
I’m not downloading anything that might give me Computer Herpes.
19/12/2008 at 23:58 John Walker says:
Mark, I’d love to be able to tell you, but I can’t even see the games on Steam : (
20/12/2008 at 00:00 jonfitt says:
From Joystiq:
Also, in case you’re wondering, EA games on Steam apparently don’t install or use third-party DRM set-ups. According to Valve “the only DRM it uses is Steam itself.”
Woohoo! I may finally play some EA games from this year.
20/12/2008 at 00:01 Steve says:
John, considering Warhead had the same DRM as it did in retail on Steam I’d say it’s a safe assumption that the new EA games will. Which sucks :/.
20/12/2008 at 00:05 Ginger Yellow says:
It’s an entirely understandable decision. After all, US and Canadian sales of FIFA Manager will be so high they don’t need to sell it in Europe.
20/12/2008 at 00:07 jonfitt says:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771370
Is the source. It’s stated by a Volunteer Mod, so I wouldn’t bet the farm on it. but he seems pretty adamant.
20/12/2008 at 00:15 Turkish Superman says:
Someone from BioWare said on Blue’s News that the only DRM Mass Effect has is Steam DRM:
http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&boardid=1&threadid=94257&id=0&view=flatold&start=0
20/12/2008 at 00:19 Jockie says:
Shame WAR is not for Euros, means we still have to put up with those sneaky GOA types.
20/12/2008 at 00:28 lobsterjohnson says:
I’m liking that the screenshots on the mirror edge steam page are of the level pack, meaning that it’s included in the pc version for free? We can pray.
20/12/2008 at 00:32 redrain85 says:
Yep, apparently EA has dropped SecuROM on their Steam releases. I hope they do the same in the future for the retail ones, too. I also hope they abolish their EA Download service. I’ve never used it, but I’ve heard about how awful it is and how it’s essentially an enormous rip-off to buy anything from it.
If EA drops SecuROM entirely (heck, they can have the retail versions use Steam as well), then other publishers are likely to follow suit.
It looks like the lawsuits did have their intended effect, and EA knows they can’t win. They broke several laws, and now it’s coming home to roost.
20/12/2008 at 00:33 Gap Gen says:
Actually, did EA do market research to justify the prices on their download store? I would have thought that only savvy gamers who can shop around buy online.
20/12/2008 at 00:43 Aftershock says:
Count yourself lucky you even get your own localised version.
We here in Australia have incredibly high game prices in-store, and our Steam is still in USD. But we can’t buy games that are US-only.
£40 (AUD$88) for Spore? Thats what it is at retail here, this long after release. It was £45 (AUD$100) here on release.
20/12/2008 at 01:17 Pantsman says:
I must say that I’m dissapointed in Valve’s decision to cave to the publisher’s will and create a separate, higher-priced Steam for non-NA countries. I know it’s probably the only way they could convince the publishers to offer the games elsewhere over Steam, but…still.
20/12/2008 at 01:25 John Walker says:
Thing is, Pantsman, as we reported earlier this week, pretty much everything in the UK Steam is cheaper, some stuff by magnitudes.
20/12/2008 at 01:39 Pantsman says:
@John Walker
Omg, one of RPS’s contributors replied to my comment! I’m blushing.
I indeed read the article about the UK Steam, but I thought that there was a seperate Euro one with the usual ridiculous Euro prices. Or am I mistaken?
20/12/2008 at 01:40 kuddles says:
Yup, just to confirm, Crysis Warhead still contains the original “5-limit” Securom but none of the present additions (and presumably future ones) do not.
20/12/2008 at 01:41 Rob says:
For the record, as of 2 nights ago it was 309 cheaper for the UK vs US against 138 more expensive. Although the US prices have moved to parity against the most extreme examples in the new pricing structure (Pirates! et al.), the complete packs are still cheaper – to the tune of just under £12.
Worst excesses in the wrong direction are Football Manager 2009 – a £10 difference, and, bizarrely, Space Siege, a £17 difference.
20/12/2008 at 01:43 kuddles says:
I meant all the present additions (Mass Effect, Spore, FIFA Manager, NFS: Undercover) do not contain Securom. Me speak good English.
20/12/2008 at 01:45 noexes says:
Often on steam when there is 3rd party DRM they mention it in steam. It’s there for Crysis Warhead on the right-hand side but not there for the new games on there. That might be an oversight, I don’t know, but it’s a positive sign.
20/12/2008 at 01:57 Psychopomp says:
Well…
Crap…
Now I’m going to end up buying Mass Effect again, in addition to buying Eve AND WAR.
EA, who told you games on Steam is my weakness?
20/12/2008 at 02:06 hoohoo says:
@kuddles
the crysis games arent really ea games on steam. crytek holds the dd rights to them and the drm is their decision not ea’s.
20/12/2008 at 02:08 dhex says:
the regional blocking makes little sense, unless EA has some kind of euro download system contract in place that it’s trying to protect?
20/12/2008 at 02:12 Al3xand3r says:
Wrote what’s on my name’s link for the Euro prices a while ago. No response from Valve of course, even though my e-mail was much kinder in questions than the actual article.
I think the point about digital-distribution-only games is the biggest one, not that the rest is of no importance of course, but such games don’t have a Euro publisher to jack up the prices for them so it makes ya wander, is this really Valve bending to the will of publishers, or their own will, knowing that Steam’s biggest card is not the prices but its convenience.
20/12/2008 at 02:20 Al3xand3r says:
Oh and of course it’s cheaper for Britain because their currence has sort of fallen flat, they’ll either adjust it if this keeps happening or it will be back to normal soon, and they will be paying about as much as the rest of Europe then.
20/12/2008 at 02:24 hoohoo says:
what are the prices like on valves own games in the eu? that should pretty much tell you whether its valve or other publishers who are out of whack.
20/12/2008 at 02:27 Al3xand3r says:
Valve also have retail publishers in Europe, you know. Otherwise they might as well undercut EA’s store-bought copies and offer them cheaper for all users on Steam. Anyway, some are the same, some are something like 44.99 euros instead of 49.99, which is still much higher when converted in $.
20/12/2008 at 02:57 Kleevah says:
Left4Dead is €44,99, which is roughly €10 more than what it costs in stores around here.
20/12/2008 at 03:01 Al3xand3r says:
Yep, download-games don’t lose value with age it seems, heh. Stores put games in bargain prices (or bins) after a few months, but you’ll be lucky to get a holiday or weekend discount on things like Steam…
20/12/2008 at 03:09 DigitalSignalX says:
What rubbish, clearly steam’s tubes run on the same gauge in most of Europe as they they do it the States. What they should do is keep out the REST of the world and their foofy steams.
20/12/2008 at 03:57 RichPowers says:
Yeah, why should the internet have walls? Does EA have to ship digital copies to ye olde Europe in galleons, hence the delay? It’s the 21st goddamn century.
Anyway, I’m pleased that EA dropped SecuROM and install limits. I’m getting Mass Effect now.
20/12/2008 at 04:31 jalf says:
So within a single week we have:
1: EA games coming on Steam
2: EA games on Steam with no crazy DRM
3: EA games only on Steam in the US
4: Steam prices exploding.
What the hell? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Perfect storm of bad news negating all the good news?
20/12/2008 at 04:40 Ludo says:
Aside from the pricing differences and the ever fluctuating economy, this is surely a positive move which demonstrates that EA are serious about tackling the PC market. They’re exploiting one of the best digital distribution services out there right now to grab extra sales and push their games on this great platform. A positive public response will hopefully see them porting more games to the PC, and hopefully in the case of other titles such as Fifa 09, making better ports.
20/12/2008 at 04:47 jalf says:
Agreed. This part of the public will give them a positive response as soon as Valve makes it affordable to buy games from them in Europe again… ;)
(I never thought I’d see the day where I praised EA and bashed Valve in the same sentence… Truly hell must have frozen over)
20/12/2008 at 04:53 Albides says:
Yep, download-games don’t lose value with age it seems, heh. Stores put games in bargain prices (or bins) after a few months, but you’ll be lucky to get a holiday or weekend discount on things like Steam…
Speaking of which, Steam has a special weekend offer for Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl. $3.74! Though perhaps that’s only for my region.
I was elated when I saw this article as I thought it might mean a reduction on the absurd Australian retail prices for Spore. Until recently, $AU100 at EB Games, which translates to US68 or £45, and they’re going to have to taste my spore before I pay money like that. Strangely, even the EA Store is cheaper, but I’m damned if I’m going to attempt to use their download service. Unfortunately, Australia has also been left out in the cold, with the EA deal limited only to North America. I’m going to have to keep waiting if I’m looking for a bargain price for Spore.
20/12/2008 at 05:16 Grey_Ghost says:
They don’t mention it on the Bioshock page, which I am pretty sure has it. There is even a sticky in their forum about SecureROM Errors here.
Unless it has been removed from the Steam version… I would surely like to buy it if I knew that were so.
20/12/2008 at 06:12 MeestaNob! says:
@Albides
I saw Spore Galactic Edition for $130!!! I nearly fainted.
20/12/2008 at 06:42 Alex says:
I can’t wrap my head around why the prices for Euro
-steamers have flipped out. Valve has always had the ability to offer stuff at different rates depending on the region of the buyer. Why moving on from a US-dollar-only payment scheme should mess up the prices, I don’t know.
20/12/2008 at 06:49 Albides says:
Indeed, Meestanoob. When you ask for it at the store, they kick you in the balls, take your wallet, shake out your pockets for loose change, then forcefully give you the game as a suppository. That’s how bad prices are in Australia.
I’ve noticed it’s the same for books, where it’s in fact cheaper to order a huge stack from Amazon US than it is to use some Australian alternative, despite the fact that the former costs an exorbitant amount to ship here, while the latter tops at about $AU6.50 for however many books you want. I’ve saved $AU60 on a book order from America instead of using local alternatives. And that’s with the $AU40 postage to Aus. WTF.
All right, I’ll get off my soapbox now.
20/12/2008 at 07:25 MeestaNob! says:
Have you signed up for Borders weekly email? They almost always have some sort of 10-35% of printable coupon on books and/or DVDs?
All of this is useless of course if you’re located somewhere remote. You’re not out in deepest darkest WA somewhere are you? Probably not many Borders out there. :D
20/12/2008 at 07:31 Albides says:
Naw, Wollongong, but it’s remote enough. Nearest Borders is Sydney, which would have been convenient enough back when I used to work there. I noticed both Dymocks and Angus & Robertson have loyalty card schemes now, though, which is something, I guess. Usually I’d buy second-hand, but that isn’t always a possibility. I’m heading to Burkelouw’s books at Berrima tomorrow to get myself some Christmas presents.
Thanks for the headsup anyway.
20/12/2008 at 08:26 MeestaNob! says:
No worries. You might want to try QBD (http://www.qbd.com.au), if you’re keen ordering online. I’ve only bought from them once, but it came within the week and in good condition. They often have hard cover stuff on special and near-paperback prices, and if you buy a couple of items shipping is reasonable. Recommended.
In other news, *Achievement Unlocked* – Hijack an RPS thread with a fellow Aussie – 10Gp.
20/12/2008 at 08:29 Tei says:
EA don’t want me to buy his games.
20/12/2008 at 08:49 blacktentacle says:
My week as a german steam customer:
Almost all prices going up. … EA Games finally on steam, but North America only. … Weekend deal: Stalker. “Not available in your region.” … Oh, man.
20/12/2008 at 09:42 SuperNashwan says:
If only Valve released sales figures for Steam; if there’s no Securom protection it’d be really interesting to see how popular the Steam version is compared to other digital outlets.
20/12/2008 at 10:54 James G says:
It would be extra nice if EA allowed us to add our CD-Keys to Steam. Unfortuantely this seems to be an underused option.
20/12/2008 at 10:55 Annoyed says:
I would like to know why Europeans from non-Euro countries have to pay in Euro, and why Europeans from non EU-countries still have to pay EU VAT.
That last bit actually seems like a scam to me. Where does the VAT-money I pay go? They don’t go to my country, which doesn’t put VAT on online purchases from abroad, and it doesn’t go to the EU because I’m not an EU citizen. So… straight into Valve’s pockets?
20/12/2008 at 10:58 espy says:
Considering how cheap games are at British online retailers and considering that no taxes or tolls apply for mail from the UK to any other nation in the EU, Steam has become completely useless for me. I can get the uncensored, English version of a game with a box, the manual, actual disks and shipping for at least 30% below steam prices, sometimes more. It’s amazing that steam manages to sell anything in the EU at all.
20/12/2008 at 11:02 Annoyed says:
Also, at least one publisher has said that Valve determines the region prices: http://forums.savage2.com/showpost.php?p=240941&postcount=10
There’s much more info here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=770231
20/12/2008 at 11:27 Onuryn says:
There is a way to see games outside your region; it works with Firefox 3.0, not sure about other browsers.
1- Go to Steam’s homepage
2- Click on “All”, under “Browse Games”
3- On the address bar, add “&cc=US” to the end and press return (without the parenthesis, where US is the region you want to look into)
4- Click “Home”, on the top left
Presto! You should be able to see games out of your region, in dollars, pounds or euros according to the region you chose.
You won’t be able to buy those games, though. Don’t forget to switch back to your region to do so.
Some regions include: US (USA), BR (Brazil), UK (Britain), ES (Spain)… Other codes shouldn’t be too difficult to figure out.
20/12/2008 at 11:28 Monk-Eddie says:
espy is 110% right. I’ve been buying all my games from the uk for the last 3 years. considering that i buy 8 to 10 games every year and that i save something like 10 to 20 euros in each one…you do the math…
Also, publishers in my country are allways late, so i can order games from UK, wait 3 days for the mail, and it still wont be available in local shops. That used to annoy my friends so much that they joined the uk ordering band-wagon and now we order games together in “industrial quantities” to save a bit in the mail pricing xD
20/12/2008 at 11:53 Alexander says:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/1e1us?action=join
TIME FOR THE ___– { A } — { I } — { M } –___ (intro tune)
COME INTO ACTION. Angry Internet MAAAAN!! Angry Internet Angry Internet Angry Internet MEEEEN!! They will show you the power of the ANGRYYYY, They will show you to the might of the FORUM. They will show the world what it’s made of, they will show you can fuck with us! Angry internet, angry internet. angry.. internet.. MEN!
20/12/2008 at 12:11 theanorak says:
In other news, for anyone who hasn’t tried it yet, Stalker is currently UKP3.49 on the GB store. Which might be less than the cost of a pint, depending on where you drink…
20/12/2008 at 12:16 Frans Coehoorn says:
Oh well, I am a very angry* internet man, so I guess I will join the group.
(* Well, actually I’ll just find my games elsewhere. Or buy it on the console. But hey, it never hurts to help!
It does help, right?)
20/12/2008 at 12:55 frymaster says:
Annoyed:
While it still sucks, your comment is misleading. Valve does not set regional pricing, the publishers do. However, it seems that valve _has_ set that when presenting regional prices in euros, it’s a 1:1 conversion from dollars (regional currency)
In other words: The guys from Savage set how many dollars the title sells for in dollars. The guys from valve set the fact that it would sell for that many euros
However!
Since the steam store regional currency is now enforced, the onus is now back on the publishers. If they set a price for european euro-using countries, then since it will always be in euros and never be in dollars. Sorted.
Basically, I think what used to happen was publishers could set a price for various regions, and that was always in dollars. Then the regional currency beta came along and things were confused (they blatantly had the option for pound sterling pricing to be unconnected to the dollar prices in the UK). Now it’s not optional, and there’s only 1 figure to set for each region.
So, basically, drama over :D This was only ever an issue while you could select either dollars or local currency. Now you can only select local currency, and the publishers set the prices
20/12/2008 at 12:59 Stupoider says:
F U EA, F U!
20/12/2008 at 13:34 Smurfy says:
It’s been confirmed that there’s no SecuROM on the Steam versions, which is incredibly surprising.
20/12/2008 at 14:12 Duke Nasty VI says:
No steamy, hot games for me until they fix their pricing. Strange euros and VAT in addition? I’m not supposed to pay any VAT on digital purchases. I’ll start using another service instead until they stop screwing me over.
Finally done with my exams today, so I’m getting myself World of Goo (from the official site) and Jagged Alliance 2 (from GOG) now. Wohoo!
20/12/2008 at 14:33 Heliocentric says:
Just looked at the us prices using google cache. Every game cost more than retail. Often more than double internet prices.
I’ll likely only get anything ea over steam in a weekend deal or if it was multiplayer focused. I’d hate a long time loved multiplayer game to be taken away by activations.
20/12/2008 at 14:40 Dinger says:
Valve’s actions are perplexing: they announce that they’re implementing pricing in “local currency” for European customers, and then go ahead charge bonus Euros to customers for whom the Euro is not local currency, nor the European Union an organization to which their country belongs. Next, they’ll be imposing English as the language for all Americans, and levying a US state income tax, and defining “American” as “A resident of North, South or Central America.”
In essence, their official statements are out of line with their actions, and we’re left with an entirely arbitrary, mean-spirited price hike.
20/12/2008 at 15:53 frymaster says:
Duke Nasty VI:
The way it used to work in the UK, prices were in dollars before tax, and then VAT was added on. Presumably wherever you are, the prices were in dollars before tax, and no VAT was added on. Point I’m trying to make is, it’s a cock-up, not an attempt to screw you over.
Dinger:
Re: arbitrary price hike: at the time where you could swap between euros and dollars, this made the local currency trial pointless, but didn’t actually mean there was a price hike. Now there’s only one price, which is entirely under the control of the publishers concerned, so surely if there’s mean-spiritedness involved they are to blame?
I am quite mystified as to why there’s such a big desire to blame steam for anything and everything. Yes, the local currency thing was introducted with valve’s customary panache for such things (ie, badly) but I struggle to see where people are getting the omg valve are screwing us over!!! stuff from… the worst you can say is that is some regions they are cocking up the tax (which doesn’t count as “screwing people over” since they don’t get to keep that money anyway), and that for some other region’s its entirely pointless (they’ve gone from one non-local currency – dollars – to another one – euros)
20/12/2008 at 16:04 nakke says:
frymaster: I think it’s silly that Valve is always saying “but it’s the publishers who control that!!”. Well ffs, don’t allow publishers to have silly pricing or games only available in a few regions. It’s their platform, they should set up the rules instead of conforming to anything the publishers say.
20/12/2008 at 16:18 jalf says:
frymaster: Gaping holes in your logic. Valve were the ones who decided to switch people to a new (arbitrary) currency. Valve were the ones deciding on a “default” exchange rate. Unless you can provide proof to the contrary, I doubt they went out to every publisher asking “hey, if we add euro prices, how should we price every one of your games?”
Of course they didn’t, they just converted the price according to how *they* felt like it.
They already stated on the steam forums that one of the objectives was to get VAT included in the price to “avoid nasty surprises” when we buy games. That is a *Valve* decision which has nothing to do with the publishers selling their games on Steam.
So far, we *know* that Valve are involved in the 40% price hike, but we have *not a shred of evidence* that other publishers have even been asked about the new pricing. I am quite mystified as to how you can claim otherwise, that it’s nothing to do with Valve, and only the big mean publishers.
And no, the worst you can say is not “some regions are cocking up the tax”.
The worst you can say is that
1: Discriminatory pricing inside the EU is flat out illegal. EU citizens have a right to buy a product from *any* country in the EU, at the price in that country. Preventing us from buying at the UK prices is illegal. And Valve are preventing us from this, not EA and the other publishers.
2: Valve has raised prices *across the board* regardless of VAT taxes. If this had anything to do with taxes, they would have to give us a separate price for each country. VAT is 25% here in Denmark, in others it’s 15, 19, 20 and any other number. But Valve chooses *one* pan-european price. Which means that yes, Valve *does* get to keep a good chunk of the tax money. Norwegians don’t have to pay VAT on digitally distributed products, but they pay the same premium as we do in Denmark with our 25% VAT. WHere do those 25% go from Norwegian purchases? Into Valves pockets and *nowhere* else. The state of Norway doesn’t see a single penny.
If you’re going to defend Valve, at least get your facts straight first. And please, supply some proof if you’re going to claim that “It’s all the other publishers who decided to raise prices by 40% just when Steam added Euro prices”. Because it’s a bit more logical to assume that Valve decided to raise prices because Valve wanted to 1) make more money, and 2) hide the VAT, and 3) make more money from countries with low/no VAT by charging the same there as in other countries.
Oh, and one final problem with your wild statements: Valve’s *own* games have experienced the same price hike. How can that be? Assuming your claims that it’s nothing to do with Valve are true, why can’t I buy Left 4 Dead or the Orange Box at the same price as I could when they charged me in US$? How come their own games are *also* suddenly ridiculously expensive? Whose fault is that? EA? Ubisoft? All the “other publishers”? Or could it be… *gasp* Valve? Could it be? Would Valve really *raise prices*? We already *know* that Valve themselves decided on this insane price jump. On the other hand, we have not a shred of evidence that other publishers were even aware of it, much less had a say in the Euro pricing of their games.
Whether they did so out of incompetence, greed or malice doesn’t really matter. But at a stroke, they’ve made Steam a hopelessly uncompetitive product in one of their biggest markets.
20/12/2008 at 16:44 Annoyed says:
jalf: Well said. I think Valve are a great developer, and they’ve also done some very clever and customer-friendly things in the past. But that doesn’t mean they should be defended when they do something like this.
Your point #2, which I was speaking about earlier, is very important, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re breaking some laws here.
20/12/2008 at 16:56 Dinger says:
Once again, Alec Meer has gone off prematurely, and we’re all left disappointed at what could have been.
Had he the stamina to hold off a week, he would have the top-5 AIM event he needed (to kick the second Spore entry out).
Jalf: Right on. This isn’t a publisher decision; it’s Steam implementing it across the boards. I suppose it’s important to list prices with VAT for countries that have it, but, come on. Switzerland, for example, has a VAT of 7.6%. Its currency is the Swiss Franc, and it is not part of the European Union. On this scheme, the Swiss now pay a full third over what they were paying before, across the board, for every title on Steam. As Frymaster points out, that’s going from one foreign currency to another. But it also includes a huge price hike, and the justification for all this is that “Transactions are now be in local currency, and VAT is included.” It’s nonsensical and insulting. And the AIM are on the march again.
20/12/2008 at 16:59 Lukasz says:
well. that’s one lost sale for them. I was planing on getting max payne games (cause i cannot buy them in australia) when i am in europe. screw them.
20/12/2008 at 18:38 frymaster says:
Excepting the VAT situation, which is a cock-up of biblical proportions and indefensible:
“EU citizens have a right to buy a product from *any* country in the EU, at the price in that country”
steam is based in the US. You don’t have a right to insist someone opens up a store in your country.
“If you’re going to defend Valve, at least get your facts straight first. And please, supply some proof if you’re going to claim that “It’s all the other publishers who decided to raise prices by 40% just when Steam added Euro prices”.
publishers always have had the ability to choose their own prices in various regions. Before, that price was in dollars. Now, that price is in euros. Thus, if publishers don’t choose to change the numerical figure, the effective price paid will be higher. Valve can’t make that change for them because that’s not their decision to make. Thus, noone has decided to increase prices; this is simply because individual publishers haven’t adjusted their prices for the euro. No “decision” to raise prices necessary.
20/12/2008 at 19:00 Dinger says:
Frymaster, there’s a point of fact here, and you’re on the wrong side of it. Yes, publishers can set their prices. But you are not going to convince anyone that EVERY SINGLE PUBLISHER ON STEAM suddenly agreed at the same time to switch their prices to Euros and make the exchange rate $1 = 1 Euro. This is clearly Valve who’s doing it. For all I know, the publishers are still getting paid in dollars.
Oh, and Valve’s switching to Euros and GBP implies that they are selling from presences in those territories. It may not be the case, but it’s a strong presumption.
20/12/2008 at 19:33 frymaster says:
sigh…
there is no “exchange rate” – before, a publisher typed, say, 40 into a field that said “price for euro region, in dollars”. Now that field means “price for euro region, in euros”. So no, every single publisher has not agreed to an “exchange rate”. They have simply not updated the number, which now has a new meaning.
20/12/2008 at 20:09 Mattress says:
Yeah, last time I checked $1 did not = €1…
Of course, we’re used to this. Anyone with a minimal knowledge of macro-economics will call this market segregation. However the Steam is applying this segregation artificially. European media consumers (which includes CDs, dvds as well as videogames) have been putting up with these prices for years at retail. When the euro was introduced for public use in 2002, publishers/distributors/retailers reset prices – rounding up (and mostly up) to their US dollar equivalent. Over the following six years, the dollar has fallen in value to the euro ($1 initally got you more than €1 – now it’s a euro trades for $1.40), yet this hasn’t coincided with any decline in the price in euro of US goods.
But that’s besides the point, the internet is a borderless land and trade should be conducted in whatever currency used in the land of the distributor. I am amazed if valve (a company I previously considered both ethical and innovative in terms of game design and business) go ahead subject european customers to vastly disparate prices compared to the US for what is the exact same product.
I used to find Steam good value and convenient. This new pricing regime just may get me to set sail for different shores… Arrr.
20/12/2008 at 21:33 frymaster says:
left4dead in euros in europe: 44.99
left4dead in dollars in usa: 49.99
“1 euro = 1 dollar” a load of cobblers: yes
default prices for products in europe overpriced unless manually checked: also yes
…but note that this does not require some sort of conspiracy on the part of valve, and can be explained simply by cock-up. That being the case, is there any chance the AIM can wait around until after the weekend to give all the publishers on steam (including valve) a chance to review them?
20/12/2008 at 23:38 Dean says:
If you’re in Norway, and the receipt has a separate listing for VAT on it, can you not just claim it back?
21/12/2008 at 00:19 Dinger says:
Frymaster: AIM, by definition, wait for nobody.
If it’s a matter of waiting for merchants to update their prices; well, they had a beta that lasted all of a week. If that’s their excuse, than they had no reason whatsoever to move into production.
It’s nice to see that Left4Dead is only 45 Euros. That would make the price hike over what I paid for it (taxes included) only 20%. I have no problem attributing all this to incompetence, but it’s difficult to imagine the configuration of incompetence that would arrive at this. No matter how you look at it, even in the best light (taking your Left4Dead example as a case of Valve being “reasonable”), it amounts to a unilateral and arbitrary price hike by switching from one foreign currency to another.
And you also know that Valve is perfectly capable of deploying software that calculates currency conversion and VAT on the fly using IP location. They have all the tools to do just that (and have been doing it for some time). That would have been reasonable. “They just defaulted to rip people off in an arbitrary manner based on whether their culture was closer to continental Europe or the United States” is so reprehensibly stupid an excuse that it’s actually better for their company image if we assume a massive conspiracy on their part.
And Dean: Valve’s “Receipts” do not have separate listings for VAT. It’s all notional.
21/12/2008 at 02:18 Krupo says:
I ended up getting Stalker (damn you freebies/discounts!) for 5 bucks last night.
Man, I now have a BACKLOG of weekend-special games to finish.
My sympathies for the Australian/European pricing insanity. I guess this is the karmic retribution for you getting to enjoy cooler cars. :p
21/12/2008 at 02:44 RichP says:
Good news for European users: A Bioware employee told Blue’s News that EA games should be available to European Steam users sometime next week, after a technical issue is resolved.
21/12/2008 at 19:44 Dot says:
The thread kind of moved on past that, but, to reiterate, all EA’s titles on Steam do not have any DRM.
Not only moderators have stated that, their Steam pages don’t get the usual DRM icon all the DRM equipped games on Steam are marked with.
22/12/2008 at 02:16 RaFannie says:
So this ChuChu train only travels between US and Canada….well that sucks.
22/12/2008 at 02:18 Erlam says:
“the regional blocking makes little sense, unless EA has some kind of euro download system contract in place that it’s trying to protect?”
A lot of that is set up by the countries themselves. I know that releasing stuff in ‘Europe’ is often made complete hell by Germany’s insane demands. In a game I worked on hostages were not allowed to have bound hands. Thanks to Germany, we had to re-model the NPC’s.
22/12/2008 at 09:34 jalf says:
Of course not. Wouldn’t be AIM then. Anyway, they already had time to fix their cock-up. They had a beta, where people pointed out this issue, and they chose to ignore the feedback. Also even if they bring the prices back in line, they’re still screwing over the European countries with low/no VAT. Norway doesn’t have to pay VAT at all, but is charged the same price as Denmark, with 25% VAT. So either Norway gets to pay 25% extra *to Valve’s pockets*, or Valve takes a 25% loss when selling to Denmark. I think the former is more likely to happen, and I’m not convinced they’re going to fix this.
Irrelevant. Citizens of the EU have the right to buy products that are available in any EU country. If Steam sells products cheaper in the UK, then every EU citizen has a right to buy at that price. Itunes already got slammed by the European Commision for this exact issue, and had to change their pricing.
But of course, it’s not a big deal. Play.com offers free shipping to every EU country as far as I know. And their prices easily match the “old” Steam. So this really only affects me because of EA choosing to add their games to Steam DRM-free. That means I can finally buy Mass Effect and others I’ve been wanting to play. But as much as I’ve been looking forward to playing a few EA games, I don’t think a 40% price premium is worth it.
22/12/2008 at 10:01 Sacrovir says:
It is interesting to hear that “publishers have the right to determine the prices” because this isnt currently true of physical product. Publishers can affect the price by selling it to retailers such as Amazon or Game but actually it is these 3rd parties who determine the price. Digital downloads are the only place a publisher (or developer) can determine their own price. The impact of this could be quite large, especially if a game is download only.
23/12/2008 at 01:39 Rob says:
Now available in Europe less the UK
23/12/2008 at 14:24 Geoff says:
And so it begins.
By the end of next year, EA will merge all its systems into Steam, and SteamEA’s (pronounced Steamy) battle against Actizard begins in earnest. Two years later, Google acquires them and SteamEA becomes Google Games.
Quickly trampling Actizard, they turn their attention to Microsoft. After a protracted land and air war, claiming hundreds of thousands of lives, the Googmind conquers Redmons and begins constructing a tower there.
At this time, the populace begins to see the danger and fight back. Their attempts are largely in vain, until a lingering EA Securom strain deactivates the Googmind, noticing that it has now been installed in more than 5 major cities.
The irony will be lost on the scattered and desperate survivors, as they seek to rebuild society and entertain themselves with something that doesn’t require GOS to run.
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