Internet Spaceships Super Drama

By Jim Rossignol on February 5th, 2009 at 11:38 am.


In what is probably the biggest backstab in Eve Online’s rather stabby history, a director of one of the key corporations in key PvP alliance Band Of Brothers has turned out to be an agent of their biggest enemies, the Something Awful spawned GoonSwarm. The consequence of this is some huge in-game material losses, but also the disbanding of the alliance itself. This means that the sovereignty game mechanic which holds Band Of Brother’s galactic empire together has gone offline, leaving them horrendously exposed to attack. Worse, Goonswarm have stolen the name and ticker of an alliance that has been running for almost five years.


GoonSwarm director The Mittani has had the pleasure of disbanding his enemies, reportedly thanks to access granted via a disillusioned BoB player turncoating to the Goon side. After deciding to backstab his former chums the BoB director was able to get to the controls and kick out the member corporations, and a steal a huge stack of capital ships and cash. Spying like this does not involve illegal activities such as hacking accounts, it’s purely down to players lying, and is therefore a valid tactic within the game.

This event is now the most significant coup in Eve history, not because of the money lost, but because the disbanding of an alliance means that all its defensive infrastructure lies exposed. Without alliance ownership various system-access jammers, jumpbridges between systems and other vital machinery of Eve’s alliance mega-game are put offline. It’s a titanic victory for the Goons, who had often quoted griefing Band Of Brothers as one of their core goals. The catastrophic effect this has means that BoB’s empire is now totally exposed to attack from its enemies, and Goon fleets are reportedly already at the heart of the former BoB stronghold.

While this is indeed an impressive work of infiltration and an amazing betrayal of trust, and wholly in the spirit of Eve, I can’t help feeling sad for the thousands of players who put so much into that alliance, only to have it taken away by a single person. Theft of the name itself is, indeed, a painful thing. In some ways it proves what an astonishingly clever space of possibilities Eve provides for this kind of meta-gaming, and in others: what a total bastard.

(Thanks to the two dozen people who mailed me this morning.)

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226 Comments »

  1. tWB says:

    This, of course, is why Mehmed II instituted a policy of new Sultans killing any brothers who might pose a threat to the Ottoman empire.

    I’m one of those who loves hearing about EVE, but has never played it and still doesn’t understand 90% of its mechanics. The sheer scale of this story — essentially, an alienated general defects to the barbarian horde and pulls down the empire from within — just doesn’t happen anywhere else. Hopefully, RPS will give us some follow-up stories detailing what happens now that the regional hyperpower is dead.

  2. Klaus says:

    The main reasons I don’t play MMO’s are because of griefers.

    With an older brother (my very first griefer, lol) who constantly beat me at whatever game we played, I realized that I would have to try harder or play another game altogether. Sometimes he beat me just for an ego boost or to be an ass about it but I do and will always likely will find the idea repugnant, that I should have won because I played for fun rather than glory or ego. Or rather my brother didn’t deserve victory despite being better than me.

    Sesame Street was never able to ingrain that little nugget of advice in me and I eventually learned how to get past Guile’s spammy flashkick.

    My point is that BoB should have been more vigilant, especially if years of work were involved. They lost within the scope of the game.

  3. jalf says:

    For the people saying it’s a problem that the game mechanics allow this, I think you’re missing the point. The game mechanics don’t allow this. The game mechanics allow the alliance to decide who gets which privileges. If BoB hadn’t given access right to pretty much the entire alliance to this one character, they wouldn’t have been hit by this. I think I’ve read interviews with BoB leaders before, preening about how their biggest strength was how decentralized their alliance was. Guess they were wrong.

    Yes, it’s harsh, but at the same time, BoB could have been prevented it. They got lazy. They gave too much power to people who shouldn’t have been trusted. But the choice to do that was still BoB’s. The game mechanics did give them the necessary tools to limit access rights for any individual member.

    In any case, BoB has definitely had their 15 minutes of fame. As said above, they had pretty much “won” the game for what, several years now? For most BoB members, life will go on. They’ll forge new, smaller alliances, and fight to conquer the galaxy again. And that will probably make Eve politics a hell of a lot more interesting. :)

  4. Larington says:

    The further I got into the comments the more I began to think, too long, not reading at each comment. Err, anyway, this all kinda suggests to me that Alliances are too centralised in terms of control, if one of 10 medium level commanders goes turncoat it should only significantly affect 10-15% of the alliance on the whole. As in, the fact that the rest of the leadership is subdivided elsewhere prevents one person from destroying the whole organisation in one fell swoop, disgruntled player or otherwise.

  5. Diogo Ribeiro says:

    Irrelevant to this situation where we do know that a large outside community set out to destroy a game.

    Or is it irrelevant because it questions your comfortable notion that one side has to be wrong, rather than just being shades of grey? The very shades EvE proposes as one of the game’s best characteristics?

    Also, destroy a game? Hyperbole much? EvE has underwent this kind of universe defining moments ever since its inception, and most of them have been perpetuated by the community itself. That an outside community would destroy the game is ludicrous when resident players have fueled some measure of disorder or chaos into the system themselves for a long time.

    I also feel that your hypothetical’s pretty farfetched; in any situation with a petty nihilist aim, making a big gloating announcement both pre- and post-deed is pretty much the point.

    So, that would make the ones that keep quiet about their underhanded tactics and monopolies on the “right side”.

  6. thefanciestofpants says:

    Awesome.

    Eve is great to read about. It’s literally like reading epic war correspondence from the edge of known space.

    Also, yay Goons.

  7. Dinger says:

    Some folks are acting like it’s the end of the world. Yes, a group with the sworn interest of taking down the social elite of an online community succeeded in depriving them of a ton of capital. All they’re left with is their very experienced characters, much of internal social structure, some huge sum of money, and their wits.
    And the game pecking order just got thrown into upheaval. Great. You lost a lot? Well, now there’s more room at the top. Don’t have any longer the time or dedication to put in to re-achieving your past successes? Well, how’d you get in this mess anyway?

    I don’t see the problem. IRL, one person, whether from malice or incompetence can ruin the lives of millions. It’s a cold world out there.

  8. dhex says:

    this sort of thing is awesome to read about. i hope you drop a proper eve book one day, mr. walker.

  9. Diogo Ribeiro says:

    The game mechanics allow the alliance to decide who gets which privileges. If BoB hadn’t given access right to pretty much the entire alliance to this one character, they wouldn’t have been hit by this. I think I’ve read interviews with BoB leaders before, preening about how their biggest strength was how decentralized their alliance was. Guess they were wrong.

    Now I have even less reservations about the coup. So, more than a lesson in trust, also a lesson in corporate despotism?

    (I suck at government analogies, so work with me)

  10. Diogo Ribeiro says:

    dhex:

    It’s Jim, not Walker.

  11. Klaus says:

    @Dinger

    That is probably the best thing I’ve read all week.

  12. DigitalSignalX says:

    I’ve heard Eve described as Excel MMO…. basically a spread sheet with a chat app and oh by the way, you can fly around some. But the politics and the amount of time and energy invested into anything, even a spreadsheet, would make a move like this heart breaking. After reading all the “would never play it” comments in this article, it seems likely this could cause a great many like minded people to exit Eve.

    As always, it makes for better reading then actual playing.

  13. Will Tomas says:

    The thing I rather feel about it is that while the SA branch of the Goons may be intentionally annoying little tosspots (much like the kid in Slumdog Millionaire’s brother), since they haven’t broken the rules of the game, actually all they’ve done is make the game more interesting.

    Yes, I feel sorry for the people who poured their lives into making BOB over the years, but actually what I like about this is that it was a very politic thing to do. It’s actually one group in Eve defeating another – through Eve. Had the accounts been hacked, the alliance wiped through mass-spamming or other intentionally irritating tactics that weren’t part of the universe, I’d see it as illegitimate. As it is, they were devious but the ramifications of this will make Eve more politically interesting from the sounds of it, and the future will play out inside the game universe without any actual outside-the-game-fantasy-breaking thing changing that.

    They played the game. After all, Richard III lost the Battle of Bosworth Field because Lord Stanley switched sides…

  14. P7uen says:

    The Goons aims are what is annoying about the situation, and why it seems unfair to me. Hitler’s aims were also a bit annoying, in that he really wanted to ruin everyone’s fun too, so a lot of people got together and squished him.

    I don’t play Eve, but if the general opinion is what it seems on RPS it seems to be common sense that if the rest of the players would just get organised against a common foe.

  15. Doc MacRae says:

    Suck it, Goons.

  16. Dean says:

    This looked like another great EvE story when I first read it, but on closer inspection, it really isn’t. I love the stuff that comes out of EvE despite not playing it, but this is just naff. The best thing it does is highlight what could be done via someone infiltrating an alliance at a high level.

    But that didn’t happen.

    There’s no story, no tale of intrigue or cunning to report here. It’s simply: “kid got bored and decided to throw a spanner in the works”.

    That’s the problem with the mechanics too. While the fact that something like this could be done is sorta cool, the amount of effort required to do so was massively at odds with the scope of what was done.

    It sucks for everyone else that was in that alliance, but I imagine the guy that did it will be quitting the game soon enough anyway (or at least starting a new character so he isn’t hounded constantly by the people he pissed off).

    And that’s the mechanical problem. You can throw around real-world analogies all you like, but in the real world there’s one major difference: you only get one life, and you can’t quit it. If someone did this is a real life corporation, he’d never get a job again. That’s a massive consequence hanging over his head. It might still be worth it, but it’s a huge personal sacrifice.
    In EvE there’s no reason not to do something like this if you were going to quit anyway, and he can always re-roll.

  17. obo says:

    Man, GoonSwarm is the Bush administration of online games. It’s fun and profitable to be a part of it, but everybody else is fucked.

  18. Ian says:

    Wait.. I’ve heard this story before. Isn’t this the pilot to Battlestar Galactica? Frustrated higher up switches sides due to connection with the enemy, allowing an entire alliance to be destroyed by decisive action when all the defensive systems go down?

  19. Smithee says:

    The problem here is not what was done (which is the sort of devious behavior that should occur in Eve), but who did it. If another alliance had done this, I’d actually be pretty impressed. But when your entire goal is simply to cause disorder independent of the game’s fiction, your’re no longer playing Eve, your playing TEH INTERNETZ.

    @P7uen
    Why the Goons aren’t like Hitler: Hitler had a real-world goal independent of simply causing trouble. A Goonsquad Hitler would have conquered Europe, declared that it had all been a LULZkrieg, and gone home.

  20. Smithee says:

    ^ That’s “GoonSwarm Hitler”, not “Goonsquad Hitler”.

  21. Anthony Damiani says:

    “Try applying that reasoning to the field of secret intelligence in real life. Was it unfair you had spy networks during World War II disrupting the hard work done in the frontlines with petty machinations and turncoating? Totally. Yet, no one would scream about how it shouldn’t be done. It was one of the pillars of the war; the unseen one which has unfathomable repercussions.”

    Yes. But Roosevelt didn’t just decide that the Nazis were more fun, and disband the USA– nor could he have, if he had wanted to. I think a lot of the whining here comes from the fundamental unrealism of the event. It’s legal, but legal because the game design is flawed. Unless it’s not, and it’s purely the corp design which was flawed, in which case it’s their own damned fault.

    And also from the Goons being total bastards.

  22. Hypocee says:

    Or is it irrelevant because it questions your comfortable notion that one side has to be wrong, rather than just being shades of grey? The very shades EvE proposes as one of the game’s best characteristics?

    Incorrect. I like underdogs as much as the next guy, and everyone knows BoB reached its hegemony in part by member devs’ cheating. There’s no such thing as a good guy in EVE; however, in the outside world there are people who want to achieve certain things, people who want to ‘win’ the game and other people who just want everyone else to stop having fun. In my eyes, one of those groups is a bunch of jackasses. Bad guys.

    Also, destroy a game? Hyperbole much? EvE has underwent this kind of universe defining moments ever since its inception, and most of them have been perpetuated by the community itself.

    I didn’t say they’d destroyed the game. I said their stated goal is to destroy the game – to stop people taking it seriously by whatever means possible. The earlier episode that stands out in my mind is randomly mass-kamikaze’ing anyone with a nice ship. Anything to make a real person angry; bonus points if you can make him quit. As I’ve said again and again, I think previous events just like this have been great. If Northern Alliance had pulled this off, I’d be cheering. It’s jerks taking the outside world into the game world for griefing’s sake that pisses me off.

    I also feel that your hypothetical’s pretty farfetched; in any situation with a petty nihilist aim, making a big gloating announcement both pre- and post-deed is pretty much the point.

    So, that would make the ones that keep quiet about their underhanded tactics and monopolies on the “right side”.

    Pretty much, yeah. Because as I said, if they care enough to keep it secret they weren’t just fucking shit up for lulz. They were playing the game.

  23. egg says:

    @Dean

    There’s no story, no tale of intrigue or cunning to report here. It’s simply: “kid got bored and decided to throw a spanner in the works”.

    Yeah. Had the guy put a lot (a real friggin lot) of effort into this action, then maybe this whole thing would have seemed less unfair.

    I don’t see a director of anything else just getting bored and causing massive damage without hardly any consequences to him.

    Except in EVE. The guy is a bloody hero in the eyes of a forum filled with trolls. Tee hee.

  24. Kadayi says:

    Seems to me that a mechanic that gives over that much destructive control to one player within an alliance Vs the rest of it’s membership is a broken one, or at least in need of a major rethink. You need 2 keys to launch a nuclear missile (if you catch my drift). Certain Safeguards need to be introduced it seems.

    Sure it’s easy for a community manager to carp on about it being a tough and dangerous (and one assumes rugged, manly and not remotely homosexual) game, but when you’re sides been wiped out by weak mechanics and a lack of safeguards its not exactly cricket.

  25. clive dunn says:

    Would it perhaps be too ‘meta’ to locate the server headquarters and burn it down?
    There!, the whole EVE universe destroyed in a single swipe!

  26. Damien Neil says:

    I didn’t say they’d destroyed the game. I said their stated goal is to destroy the game – to stop people taking it seriously by whatever means possible. The earlier episode that stands out in my mind is randomly mass-kamikaze’ing anyone with a nice ship.

    So the Goons are the Reavers from Firefly.

    And, y’know, when I was watching Firefly, I never thought: “Man, this universe would be so much better if all the enemies were rational, reasonable people motivated by a desire for profit and power.”

  27. Klaus says:

    I never thought of this in terms of good guys and bad guys. My mind processes this as winners and losers.

  28. Kadayi says:

    There was a big discussion thread about griefers quite some time back, and one of the key paradoxes seems to be that this notion of attacking people for ‘taking it too seriously’ never really holds up under scrutiny, given the inordinate amount of time, effort and passion (important word that) they themselves put into it. Seems to be a case of pinching the girl instead of kissing her. In the world of SA conformity is king, and the only passion allowed is disdain.

  29. fulis says:

    Kadayi, the game is about being mean
    It’s open PVP,
    The game is designed for people to be able to inflict huge losses towards other people. That’s the point, that the stakes are high

    Losing a ship, losing billions worth of ships or losing everything, it doesn’t matter

  30. jalf says:

    Seems to me that a mechanic that gives over that much destructive control to one player within an alliance Vs the rest of it’s membership is a broken one, or at least in need of a major rethink. You need 2 keys to launch a nuclear missile (if you catch my drift). Certain Safeguards need to be introduced it seems.

    Enabling such a mechanic (requiring confirmation from X players) would probably be a nice addition to the game, I agree, but once again, the game mechanics to prevent this *did* exist. The game does have a very fine-grained permissions system. It is possible to control very precisely which access rights and privileges any single member should have. And allowing too much power into the hands of one individual is risky.

    In Anthony Damiani’s example above, no, Roosevelt couldn’t decide to disband the USA. But the reason he couldn’t is not some universal built-into-the-world rule that “the leader of a country may not disband it”. The reason he couldn’t is that the USA has rules about how much power a president gets.

    And similar, BoB, as any other serious alliance, has rules about how much power their leaders get. If these rules are not strict enough, then individual leaders *can* abuse them. If Roosevelt had decided to disband the USA, it wouldn’t have been the universe’s fault. It’s not that the “developers” should have imposed stricter rules on pvp on planet Earth. It’s that the USA failed to safeguard its own interests.

  31. Klaus says:

    As someone who engages in troll behavior from time to time, I can say it sometimes brings great joy (at least to me).

    And there is a misconception that it takes an inordinate amount of time, effort and passion. Perhaps for the EVE Goons because EVE looks difficult to me, but I personally would never troll if the work far outweighed the amusement at the end.

  32. Hypocee says:

    I didn’t say they’d destroyed the game. I said their stated goal is to destroy the game – to stop people taking it seriously by whatever means possible. The earlier episode that stands out in my mind is randomly mass-kamikaze’ing anyone with a nice ship.

    So the Goons are the Reavers from Firefly.

    And, y’know, when I was watching Firefly, I never thought: “Man, this universe would be so much better if all the enemies were rational, reasonable people motivated by a desire for profit and power.”

    Metalevel fail. You’re making the claim that the Internet would be boring without assholes. Possibly. What I’m saying is that when I was watching Firefly I never watched them biting some kid’s face and thought ‘Yaaaay go Reavers!’

  33. Swift Voyager says:

    “Nobody’s account was hacked. An account was shared, but that was a private forum account, not an EVE account. All of the turncoat actions were done by the turncoat himself on his own account, so it is completely legal from a TOS perspective.”

    Has there been some post from an official source that I haven’t seen? I’ve spoken with BoB management and they claim that an Eve account was hacked. They have filed a petition and CCP are investigating. This whole thread, including the initial post, is speculation.

    Please people. Take a deep breath and calm down. Wait a day or two and see what the truth is. Goons are the absolute last source of information I would trust on this.

  34. Swift Voyager says:

    “Nobody’s account was hacked. An account was shared, but that was a private forum account, not an EVE account. All of the turncoat actions were done by the turncoat himself on his own account.”

    Has there been some post from an official source that I haven’t seen? I’ve spoken with BoB management and they claim that an Eve account was hacked. They have filed a petition and CCP are investigating. This whole thread, including the initial post, is speculation.

    Please people. Wait a day or two and see what the truth is. Goons are the absolute last source of information I would trust on this.

  35. Kadayi says:

    @fulis

    “Losing a ship, losing billions worth of ships or losing everything, it doesn’t matter”

    I don’t care about the matter of the loss, it’s the manner of the loss. There is a fundamental difference. Losing a ship because of your own stupidity/ inexperience is fine. Losing a ship because your sold down the river through a lack of developer enforced safeguards is another issue. Note I don’t play EVE (I don’t have the time), but a game needs to be played within a recognisable frame. Griefing is a good thing because it exposes vulnerabilities in the frame, but once those vulnerabilities are uncovered, they then need to be addressed by the developers. Should there be a reset? Unless there was a clear breach of the existing rules, then I’d say no. But certainly it’s a matter the developers should be keen to ensure doesn’t happen again on such a scale. I’m sure quite a few subscribers will have thrown the towel in over this, and that is never a good thing.

    @jalf

    People will always take the easy route when it comes to matters of confirmation , a few mandatory multi-player/majority vote protocols been thrown into the mix would be no bad thing by the sounds of it.

    @Klaus

    General griefing perhaps not, but in order to outwit organised opposition you have to get pretty organised yourself. In a grind heavy game like EVE, commitment is necessary (unless your exploiting/hacking the mechanics).

  36. Diogo Ribeiro says:

    Incorrect. I like underdogs as much as the next guy, and everyone knows BoB reached its hegemony in part by member devs’ cheating. There’s no such thing as a good guy in EVE; however, in the outside world there are people who want to achieve certain things, people who want to ‘win’ the game and other people who just want everyone else to stop having fun. In my eyes, one of those groups is a bunch of jackasses. Bad guys.

    As I said earlier, hurting a community for kicks seems petty. But the end result wouldn’t be any different whether they were being metagaming jackasses or ingame jackasses. BoB would still burn to the ground. You could argue it’s more understandable if they had done it within the context of the game – which I agree – but even playing it within the context of the game, the reasons behind the attack could have very well been the same. Only major difference was that they exposed it and were loudmouths about it.

    And if, as you say, they achieved their power through some cheating, that’s poetic justice.

    I didn’t say they’d destroyed the game. I said their stated goal is to destroy the game – to stop people taking it seriously by whatever means possible. The earlier episode that stands out in my mind is randomly mass-kamikaze’ing anyone with a nice ship. Anything to make a real person angry; bonus points if you can make him quit. As I’ve said again and again, I think previous events just like this have been great. If Northern Alliance had pulled this off, I’d be cheering. It’s jerks taking the outside world into the game world for griefing’s sake that pisses me off.

    Hey, I can’t stand griefers either. But the fact remains, not only EvE encourages these actions (in terms of major offenses against alliances, not the griefers), they seem to have played by the rules. It’s the purpose they gave the rules which might be questionable, but trying to separate individual’s goals and online games that help serve them is tricky at best.

    Pretty much, yeah. Because as I said, if they care enough to keep it secret they weren’t just fucking shit up for lulz. They were playing the game.

    “Fuck shit up for the lulz” or caring enough about the game are not measured by how much you keep quiet about it, unfortunately. BoB didn’t seem to care enough to not cheat, for instance.

  37. undead dolphin hacker says:

    Absolutely awesome. The haters and the “ohmygosh mechanics are broked” can all go back to their level 80 Warlocks in greens and get e-laid in the Brill tavern, or whatever you braindead casuals do.

  38. drewski says:

    Typical GOONS, to be fair. You either destroy them whenever and ever they turn up, just to stop them ever getting into a position where they can do this, or you let them grow to the point they destroy you.

    Sooner or later they’ll splinter, they always do. But until then, I suggest EVE players welcome their new GOON overlords.

  39. Cyranix says:

    Very cool… except that it will indeed usher in a new age of paranoia, as many copycats are bound to surface in the hopes of similar publicity.

  40. Lunaran says:

    The complaints about how broken the mechanic that allowed this is are kind of funny.

    Theft, scams, and espionage are all part of the game. They are natural human behavior that crops up in any system that doesn’t specifically outlaw it, and EVE doesn’t.

    The director that trashed BoB wasn’t some schlub that signed up and started pressing buttons. The game itself didn’t inherently trust him and give him this opportunity – if it did, we’d have seen this happen all the time. The permissions on abilities like disbanding an alliance and transferring assets are all granted by other members of the alliance – it’s not that nobody trusted him and they were powerless to stop him, it’s that everybody trusted him and he was handed the key to the city.

    You can’t call it unfair because he completely got the drop on a lot of players and they can’t fight back now, because they already had their chance.

  41. TooNu says:

    I would like to direct you to Eve RAdio to hear about this if you are interested, it is big EvE news obviously. they have had interviews with the people involved, it’s entertaining to say the least.
    http://everadio.gamingradio.net/

    This thread is a bounty upon Goonfleet for current Goonfleet members :) Lets see how long the bees last with numbers like this guy is offering.
    http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=980800

    :)

  42. drewski says:

    In game response to in game drama. I like.

    Of course, it all adds to the lulz which means GOONS still win.

  43. Klaus says:

    @ Kadayi
    That’s what I figured. I tried EVE once, when it first came out and ended up angrily uninstalling it. I’m much more simple minded and flippant.

    Although, from what I understand of Goonology, they don’t ‘do it for the lulz’, but it’s all the same result in the end anyhow.

  44. simonkaye says:

    EVELANDO!

  45. fulis says:

    Kadayi
    It was a backstabbing move. It happens a lot.
    Trusting someone in EVE is risky business and people get fooled / scammed every day. Besides, BoB used spies a whole lot too. They were as mean or meaner than anyone else. It’s a game and that’s the way of the game. If you decide to get invested too much in it then you can’t blame the people who treat it as a game.

    BoB have been sitting in their region of space forever. It’s boring. The balance of power has been upset, it’s exciting. Everyone who thought they would forever be under BoB’s protection and were arrogantly confident about it are now running for their lives, and belongings.

    Also, to clarify. BoB still have a lot left even though they were hit really badly. They have a lot of ships, and the most experienced players in the game.

  46. fulis says:

    Lunaran, the mechanics are actually a bit broken
    Everything important in a corp / alliance takes voting to do and takes time to go into action. The chances of things like this being prevented in the future are very high

  47. no says:

    “There should be mechanisms to avoid a single player to destroy something like the alliance, we are speaking of years of real time and effort put on this.”

    There are such mechanisms. They’re called “don’t give access to people you can’t trust to things that are vital”. It’s not like some guy can just waltz in and destroy your corp unless YOU give him access to the tools and permissions he needs to accomplish this.

  48. Dorsch says:

    The Eve Radio is seriously amazing. They’re currently interviewing both the head of Goonswarm and some important guy from bob. It’s unbelievable how serious they take this stuff.

  49. clive dunn says:

    Even if they hacked the account, to put the story out that it was a insider traitor does a more subtle kind of damage to the opposition (indeed all the opposition). Sowing the seeds of doubt throughout the known universe!

  50. Kadayi says:

    @Lunaran

    I’m not looking at this from a player perspective (I couldn’t give a hoot), I’m looking at it from a developer perspective. From developer perspective, having thousands of peoples efforts trashed overnight by one lone individuals actions in such an ad hoc fashion is not a good thing, for your players, for your community or for the game. If players lose faith in the games mechanics, then the game loses players, and a disillusioned player is never a good advertiser, in fact they can be quite a liability because they will tend to vocalise their discontent whenever an opportunity arises.

    @No

    Trust is not a mechanism.

    @Dorsch

    When people sink a lot of time into their hobbies, they tend to take them pretty seriously.

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