By Jim Rossignol on February 5th, 2009 at 6:44 pm.
Edit: reader research suggests this is free – see comments – but still no official response from Valve. We’ll let you know, but assume it is free!
Valve say: “The first L4D DLC – dubbed the L4D Survival Pack — is due for release this spring and introduces a new multiplayer game mode entitled, Survival, plus two complete campaigns for Versus Mode.” They also say: “In addition, for PC gamers and aspiring developers, the first Left 4 Dead release for the Source Software Development Kit (Source SDK) will allow the creation of custom Left 4 Dead campaigns that will be discoverable via L4D’s matchmaking system. The SDK update is also due for release this spring, and is free of charge to all owners of L4D on the PC.”
There’s also a new retail version of the game also due in the spring, called “Critic’s Choice”, with all that stuff to be included.
05/02/2009 at 18:49 Jockie says:
Any word yet on pricing? I was still hoping they’d only charge for the 360 version really. Looking forward to it though, survival mode sounds to me like some kind of endless horde mode, which could be interesting.
05/02/2009 at 18:49 PFC Skinner says:
Survival, possibly similar to CoD WaW zombie mode?
05/02/2009 at 18:51 Nick says:
Wait..they are charging for this? What the hell?
05/02/2009 at 18:52 SenatorPalpatine says:
The DLC better be free or I’ll be sad.
05/02/2009 at 18:52 Dr_demento says:
Any word on whether the new campaigns will be playable outside versus mode? Because otherwise that sounds…. silly.
05/02/2009 at 18:53 Tei says:
L4D: $50 the 2 first campaings + $20 the next 2 ones = $70 to play Versus on the 4 campaings of the game.
05/02/2009 at 18:53 AlexW says:
Wait what? Calm down, it doesn’t say anywhere that they’re charging for it.
I’m assuming the Vs Campaigns are Death Toll and Dead Air. Not even Valve is THAT obtuse.
05/02/2009 at 18:53 Nick says:
The ‘new’ versus campaigns are probably Dead Air and Blood Harvest. The ones that should have been in the full release but weren’t, thus giving the best game mode half the content.
05/02/2009 at 18:54 Dzamir says:
This spring.. why not now?? :’(
05/02/2009 at 18:54 Nick says:
AlexW – the line “he SDK update is also due for release this spring, and is free of charge to all owners of L4D on the PC.”
Suggests that the other stuff ISN’T free of charge. I’ll happily be wrong, but if I’m not that’s the last bastion of hope for Pc Development gone over to the darkside.
05/02/2009 at 18:55 Janek says:
Dr Demento: I strongly suspect they’re just Dead Air and Death Toll. So yes, they probably are ¬_¬
And yeah Jim you’d better get cracking on clarifying whether DLC automatically implies paying for it before legions of AIMs descend once more upon Valve’s tasty flesh.
(I really hope not)
05/02/2009 at 18:58 Little Green Man says:
Its Death Toll and Dead Air that were the last two campaigns; Blood Harvest was a versus map with No Mercy from the start.
Other thoughts: Yes, if they actually charge for this then a whole leigon of avid game fans will have lost one of their knights in shining amrour (I know Valve exists solely to make money, but y’know). That comment certainly does seem to be implying it. Ah well, we can only wait and see.
05/02/2009 at 19:00 Nick says:
Yeah I typod and there is no edit function, not like I haven’t played it to death what with it being one of two.
05/02/2009 at 19:00 sbs says:
DownloadableContent, innit?
05/02/2009 at 19:02 Nighthood says:
I would have said that Valve would never charge, but I don’t know.
05/02/2009 at 19:07 Heliocentric says:
Dey Like Cash?
Nah this will be free, put down your pitchforks down.
05/02/2009 at 19:07 BooleanBob says:
Bah, all I can see a new retail pack doing is keeping the price point for the game above that £15 sweet spot that would convince me to buy it.
That said, it remains pretty awesome that Valve continue to build on their games post release, even if they do seem to be coming around to the idea of demanding extra money for supplying that extra content.
05/02/2009 at 19:07 Lorc says:
I’m desperately hoping that the “two new versus campaigns” are two actual new campaigns that happen to be versus-enabled. And not just death toll and dead air versified.
I kind of doubt it though.
Shame. I was rather hoping for a new campaign and a new boss infected to revistalise my interest in LFD.
05/02/2009 at 19:08 Markoff Chaney says:
L4D as it stands as a 50 dollar product is quite an enjoyable game, but a little underwhelming. The promise of the PC version, of being on a known engine with probable SDK release and development by a known name that fosters long term customer satisfaction and free content updates for free with games at lower price points is what makes the 50 dollars a worthwhile investment in long term enjoyable fun. If the DLC is for pay on the PC, we will have absolutely lost a bastion of our PC Development world.
The suggestion is there that there is a cost associated with the product they are offering, except for the SDK on the PC. That is the only explicit mention of monetary exchange (or lack thereof). Valve may learn that cost goes both ways. Short term per quarter revenue up from that DLC? Long term legion of slavering fans supporting your Digital Delivery System may go down.
05/02/2009 at 19:10 Nighthood says:
Also, at this point you should be glad you are getting anything. Some companies would give away no extra content at all.
05/02/2009 at 19:10 Dzamir says:
On steam “coming soon” games list there is the Left 4 Dead Survival Pack at 14,99 €
:o
05/02/2009 at 19:11 Dzamir says:
hehehe just kidding ! :D
05/02/2009 at 19:17 Pags says:
How I read it too. Also the release of a new special edition type deal (the Critic’s Choice thing) with that stuff included could be seen as a hint that it’ll be paid-for content. But this is me reading between the lines, so whether or not that’s actually the case remains to be seen.
05/02/2009 at 19:18 Jockie says:
That was a cruel thing to say Dzamir. I almost exploded all over the comments page with rage.
As is, i guess it’s a wait and see and put my faith in valve and hope for the best. £15 for the 2 vs campaigns and a new mode sounds overpriced to me.
05/02/2009 at 19:22 Downloads_Plz says:
One of the key factors in my, and I’m sure a great many others, decisions to buy L4D was something along the line of “It’s Valve, so that means they’ll keep improving it and adding things to it for free, so it’s well worth my $50 now.”
If this content turns out not to be free, they’ll see more immediate revenue, but at the same time have lost that trump card, which in the future will mean people such as myself may not be so keen to blindly throw our wallets at them.
05/02/2009 at 19:30 amishmonster says:
I read “two two complete campaigns for versus mode” as meaning two entirely new campaigns that will be available in both modes (or, all modes? Will Survival be on new maps or the old ones?), but maybe that’s just my optimism speaking.
My guess is that the DLC will cost something on Xbox Live, as Valve has stated that as a main roadblock to updating TF2 (I think). Otherwise, why mention that the SDK will be for free on the PC, especially since it’s just an SDK update? I thought that the SDK is already out there.
Anyway, I don’t want to read too much (or any more, heh) into a very brief press release.
05/02/2009 at 19:30 A-scale says:
It would be a very poor mocve for the longterm of they make this a pay dlc. At 50 bucks this was a very expensive game for what it is, and I bought it with the expressed intent of getting dlc for that initial price. With new competition in the downloadable games field a faux pas like this could spell the doom of Valve.
05/02/2009 at 19:32 James G says:
Hmm, I’d seen hints before that Valve may charge for additional L4D content, and this item certainly doesn’t do anything to dissuade that notion. Then again, they may just realise that it would be bad form to go ‘and this will be availible for purchase on the xBox market place, or is free to PC users.’
But the thing is, Valve have been quite adament about the benifits of providing TF2 content addons for free. I’m hoping they stick by that, but I guess we shall see.
05/02/2009 at 19:33 Ging says:
It clearly won’t be free – otherwise why’d they re-release it as part of a “critics choice” retail version? (if it were free, they wouldn’t need to change the retail version at all, just throw in a leaflet that said “be sure to download this *free* dlc!”)
They might do the PC version for free – with the sdk available, it won’t take long before some bright sparks make the conversions themselves and release them for free. But the console versions will almost certainly be paid DLC and tbh, that’s something I don’t mind overly – if it’s around the 800 MS point mark (ie, about a fiver) than that’s pretty reasonable for a mini-expansion.
05/02/2009 at 19:33 Dinger says:
Haven’t seen the “coming soon” link. If they did charge for DLC, it would represent an interesting reversal of their policy, as stating to Eurogamer last year, and reiterated three weeks ago at the Game Business Law summit:
So I guess I’d be surprised by such a sudden about-face, if it turns out to be the case. Of course, I wouldn’t want to write a press release saying the XboX DLC cost money and the PC DLC was free.
05/02/2009 at 19:38 A-scale says:
Ging makes a very good point. I think. Want to cry. Goodnight, sweet prince.
05/02/2009 at 19:41 Markoff Chaney says:
That’s my other thought.
“This is Valve. They don’t charge for content on the PC. They are being forced to charge for it on consoles.”
Until we have more information, we can do nothing save flail between our pre-conceived beliefs.
05/02/2009 at 19:43 cyrenic says:
Re-releasing a “Critics Choice” retail version will drive retail sales. Valve has mentioned before when they release free content updates it renews interest in the game and they see a spike in sales. So, to me, that doesn’t imply anything about the content’s actual price.
The “free” SDK comment sure makes me uneasy though. Like several of you, I bought L4D assuming content updates for it would be free. I hope that doesn’t come back to bite me in the ass.
I don’t understand why they would start charging for DLC now, the free content updates are what differentiate Valve from everyone else.
05/02/2009 at 19:49 Eli Just says:
it better be free or i’ll be pissed as hell. That was not enough content for $50, and i bought it on the promise of the SDK and free DLC.
05/02/2009 at 19:50 Steve says:
It’s probably free. Valve like to give free content.
05/02/2009 at 19:53 James G says:
@Ging
Counterpoint: Changing the box design and slapping ‘critics choice’ on the box will be advertising. Customers will spot the new game on the shelves and will become aware of additional content. It will also provide a leveraging point for gaining prime shelf space. Furthermore, for Xbox users where the DLC will definately be charged for, it will be a plus, and changing PC boxes will give unity across the platforms. As an added bonus, remastering the discs will reduce the load on the Steam servers, and the delay before the customer can begin playing the game.
I think ultimately all we can do is wait and hope Valve speak. I can’t help thinking though that this (assuming they do charge PC users) would be percieved as an own goal by the PC community, and would damage Valve’s considerable reputation in the long run. When you have a good rep, it becomes harder to maintain it.
05/02/2009 at 19:58 Mr Chug says:
If my detour to Game today was anything to go by they’re still charging full price for L4D at retail. My bet would be it’s an excuse to re-release with new packaging and ‘look at all these people saying it’s good’ on the front at the same price. Charging for DLC after the TF2 updates would just be so… EA.
05/02/2009 at 20:00 Monkfish says:
I’d almost be prepared to pay just for the entertainment I’m getting from watching the wild (and already rather angry) speculation build on the Steam forums. Wheee!
Perhaps Valve should wheel their spokesmouse back out to provide a wee bit of clarification before the corner of the internet populated by L4D customers explodes.
05/02/2009 at 20:02 MarvintheParanoidAndroid says:
@Pags, Ging: I disagree, see Unreal Tournament 2004. They released the Editor’s Choice Edition which packed in the original game, a bunch of bonus maps, all the patches etc, and the ECE bonus pack with even more maps and new vehicles, but all of that extra content was completely free to download as well.
I suppose I’ll just wait and see… Epic and Valve are the two companies I still have hope in for massive free DLC releases, I’m hoping something good happens for UT3, and until I hear confirmation otherwise I’ll continue to have hope for L4D.
05/02/2009 at 20:04 jonfitt says:
I’m keeping one hand on the pitchfork. L4D is brilliant, but it was expensive for its length especially following TF2/Orange Box.
I consoled (!) my self by saying that there would definitely be free updates.
One thing to bear in mind is AFAIK you cannot release significant content on XBL for free. In order to protect the horse-armour retailers MS say you must charge for everything even if you don’t want to.
Valve may be the ones to change that, but I would not be surprised if it were free on PC and money on Xbox.
05/02/2009 at 20:08 jonfitt says:
Still, if the SDK is free and Valve decide to charge for maps, perhaps we will see the resurgence of the quality community map?
De_ZombieDust ?
05/02/2009 at 20:09 Pags says:
It all depends on whether they’ll continue to stock vanilla L4D, or whether the new edition just replaces it (similar to Half-Life GOTY edition iirc). If it’s the latter, then yeah it’s probably free. If it’s the former… well, it could still be free, but it’s doubtful.
Given the disappointment of the paid-for DLC for Fallout 3, it would be a shame to see Valve going down the same road, even if the content is decent. I suppose this is all just a case of wait and see.
05/02/2009 at 20:13 Steve says:
MarvintheParanoidAndroid: Epic strayed from the path of the true platform long ago. They’re money-grabbing douchebags now with the Gears series. I regret buying UT3 massively, what a disappointment.
05/02/2009 at 20:14 cyrenic says:
More baseless speculation follows:
If the 360 version is going to cost money, and the PC version is not, Valve has to be very careful about how they throw around the word “Free”. Saying the content is free for one format would cause some people to assume the content was free for both platforms.
So, optimistically, this is Valve being very careful about how they’re going to announce the 360 content costs money while the PC version does not.
05/02/2009 at 20:26 jonfitt says:
Cyrenic: That’s what I was thinking/hoping.
Jim, do you have anyone at Valve you could call/contact? You should see the Steam Forums: Ass. Plode.
Launch your team of flying monkey reporters and get us the scoop!
05/02/2009 at 20:33 eyemessiah says:
Yeah, I think they are just being *really* careful with the wording. I suspect the new content will be free. I also suspect that in a small way they may be using the lack of clarity as a means to “test the water” to see just how rabid things could get if they ever do go down the paid DLC route.
05/02/2009 at 20:33 Hypocee says:
Until I hear otherwise, I’m sanguine that it’ll be free on its home platform. In addition to that recent talk, I heard another wording of it in the PCG podcast – a Valve guy saying that they ‘just don’t think that way’ about content. Expand, sell the base. Expand, sell the base. I’ll be as scornful as anyone if they charge for this, but that’s because I’ll be completely surprised.
05/02/2009 at 20:35 cyrenic says:
The steam forums are hilarious, there are two competing threads over there right now, confident in their titles:
“Extremely satisfied that the additional content will be for free”
“Extremely disappointed that the expansion pack will cost money.”
05/02/2009 at 20:35 Rei Onryou says:
The only reason I can think of them mentioning cost is due to 360 owners needing to pay. No doubt that was a multi-platform comment. If Valve charge, I will be surprised to say the least.
05/02/2009 at 20:38 jonfitt says:
@eyemessiah: Apparently, very rabid!
05/02/2009 at 20:40 Tei says:
Valve can’t win.
- Free on XBox, Free on PC : Microsoft angry. Lots of lawyers and angry marketing representatives storm the Valve offices.
- P2P on XBox, Free on PC: Console gamers angry (or maybe not, It seems console gamers like to play for stuff that is free elsewhere, like the multiplayer part of games that have already paid)
- Free on XBox, P2P on PC: PC gamers angry. Internet burns a hole in reality, the chaos gods take over our world.
- P2P on XBox, P2P on PC: PC gamers angry. I have paid $50 for the beta, and I will pay another $20 for the full version?
05/02/2009 at 20:41 James G says:
@cyrenic
Did you see the thread with the various people going “God this is sooo fake, ur all ****ing morons” up until valve finally got the official sources updated, only to have a new batch of people yell, “Oh ur so dum its up hear!” Ahhh the joys of the t’interweb.
05/02/2009 at 20:45 jonfitt says:
@Tei: “Valve Creates Hole in Universe With Sheer Consumer Anger” lol
But if what I’ve heard from Epic and Valve before is:
If you want to get content on Xbox it comes from the Live store. In order to get it on the store if it is significant it must cost money or they won’t put it up. *
There’s no way around it. I think Epic have said before “sorry we wanted to make this free, but we can’t”.
* there may be an exception if it’s free on PS3
05/02/2009 at 20:46 subedii says:
Yeah I’m calling it: It’s gonna be free, at least on Steam.
Valve have already stated several times in the past that the way you win the “multiplayer war” (i.e. keep people playing your game for years and keep expanding the playerbase) is to continue releasing free updates for the title. This is a philosophy that has been proven to work for them when they get massive player spikes (a large portion of
whom stay playing), and a 20% spike in sales with every update they release.
There’s also the realisation that it’s also not a bright idea to split your playerbase by releasing charged content when half the players won’t be buying it.
Finally it’s ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY impossible to charge for a map-pack (really, these two maps are just the VS mode on the two maps that don’t currently support VS) on a PC game where you are ALSO releasing the SDK and allowing people to freely create and distribute their own freaking maps, and actively supporting that move.
Seriously, if Valve were intent on charging for this stuff, they would have done it by now with the Team Fortress 2 updates, which have been ridiculously substantial, and if combined into an expansion pack (all three class updates so far PLUS additional maps PLUS new game mode), nobody would have batted an eyelid at them charging a good £10-£15 for it.
I’m going with free update over Steam until I hear otherwise. The nature of the MS’s control over the 360 means they can and have made it mandatory for publishers to charge for DLC of this nature on that platform. That’s something that Valve can’t really help. The most they can do is what they’re doing now, which is getting things like the TF2 updates together into a substantial pack so that at least they’re something worth buying.
05/02/2009 at 20:48 Cynicide says:
@Marvin: You’re still hoping Epic are plugging away at extra content for UT3? I’d not be holding my breath, if I were you: Epic seem to have all but given up on PC gamers. Apparently, we upset them by not stampeding in our millions to the shops to pick up the latest and most problematic iteration of the Unreal Tournaments. Perhaps they didn’t release Gears of War 2 on the platform out of spite? I guess we’ll never know…
And call me a cynic if you like, but all those who have expressed their breaking little hearts over Valve **apparently** about to charge money for L4D’s DLC, their “crosiing over to the Dark Side” should really have known better than to place ANY for-profit entity on a pedestal.
05/02/2009 at 20:50 bruno says:
Spring starts march the 21st. It’s a long time…
05/02/2009 at 20:51 Ian Dorsch says:
Hey Cynicide, you might want to Google Titan Pack and see what that turns up for you.
05/02/2009 at 20:52 jonfitt says:
Words: Spring -> Valvetime: Summer 2010
05/02/2009 at 20:55 StormTec says:
@Tei:
That’s really a given for any company that creates products for consumers ever, I should think. You can never really “win”
05/02/2009 at 21:00 Rich_P says:
I agree with the assessment that Valve is just being careful with wording here. But I could be wrong. Hopefully not.
Charging for the update on the PC would be a definite about-face, given the free TF2 updates.
But at the same time, they don’t want to risk pissing off customers who opted for the inferior version :D
In any event, I’m still waiting for the game to hit $20. Based on the demo, $50 was way too much.
05/02/2009 at 21:11 AlexW says:
And hey, even if it WAS paid DLC it would still be a ridiculous amount easier to buy than GfWL DLC. Credit card/Paypal in, gamestuffs out.
05/02/2009 at 21:16 Cabbs says:
I don’t understand all this nonsense about confusion over the PC DLC. Maybe thats because there isnt actually any confusion, and I shouldnt have touched the steampowered.com forum thread.
We know that the tf2-style pack is an effective marketing tool, as revealed by valve figures and whatnot (/assumption), and they have told us they plan to keep using this model in future games.
05/02/2009 at 21:20 Nimic says:
I’m desperately hoping this is just a case of Valve being very careful not to make too big a deal of it being free on the PC while costing money on the 360. As much as I love L4D, if this costs money, I’m not going to buy it. Partly on principle, and partly because I’m afraid that if everyone buys it they will do the same with the TF2 updates from then on.
Also, if they do charge for it, I’ll have lost the last faith I had in Valve as the “saviors” of PC gaming (with the Euro fiasco as the first step).
05/02/2009 at 21:26 Anonononomous says:
You guys do know that PC players can already play Dead Air and Death Toll in versus mode, right? You just have to copy the maps over and play on the right servers. Hell, some servers let you play versus on those maps without you having to do anything.
05/02/2009 at 21:29 Alex says:
@ Ging
For the same reason Valve released Half-Life with Team Fortress Classic included in the box, or that CD Projekt pushed The Witcher EE to retail while hosting all the new content on their site for free.
05/02/2009 at 21:29 phuzz says:
I’m going to guess that Survival mode is a bit like VS but with no rescue, just see how long you can hang on…
I’ve played one or two games on blood harvest where the rescue truck never turned up, and in the end we did have a blast holding out against the other team. Maybe we were unwitting beta testers? ;)
(best bit was when we finally got taken down after much smack talk and it was our turn to play infected. We took them all out before they reached the field and they all ragequit :)
Oh and if Valve make their PC faithful pay for this, then baby kittens will cry. Do you want that Valve? DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THE KITTEHS CRY?
05/02/2009 at 21:29 Alex says:
that should have been re-released HL..
05/02/2009 at 21:30 clovus says:
You know, Valve is just as “evil” as EA anyway. It is just that Valve has indicated that they make more money by doing free DLC. How does this make them any morally better than EA, who has simply decided Horse-armor is the way to go? Valve is a corporation, and their only moral duty is to make as much money for themselves (or their shareholders) as possible.
Maybe Valve will go through with the paid DLC. If so… DON’T BUY IT!! PLEASE!! If it turns out that paid DLC earns you more money then Valve WILL start doing that from now on. Hopefully this will be free, and it will maybe be enough encouragement for me to finally buy. If so, I get to encourage Valve’s continued free DLC policy.
05/02/2009 at 21:35 Nick says:
“How does this make them any morally better than EA, who has simply decided Horse-armor is the way to go?”
That’s Bethesda.. and Valve is different from EA in many ways, not least is the way it is run, ie not by clueless suits.
05/02/2009 at 21:40 jonfitt says:
Actually, pay-for DLC on the PC would be a PR nightmare.
The stories would not be “L4D updated content”, they’d all be “Valve abandons principles in money grabbing shocker”
The more I think about it, the less likely it seems. I’m back in the believers camp:
Our Valve who art in Bellevue, hallowed be thy name…
05/02/2009 at 21:43 jalf says:
Oh really? Care to explain the EU Steam pricing fiasco then?
Valve isn’t all that different from EA or any other company. (they’re *usually* not as clueless as the EA bosses, but as the above shows, it certainly happens.)
But really, if Valve thinks they can make money, they’ll do it. Just like EA.
Please, don’t blindly assume Valve to be “the good guys”.
05/02/2009 at 21:48 James G says:
@Clovus
I was under the impression that Valve was a non-stock corporation. I can’t find a cite for that, but haven’t been able to find Valve shares on any share trackers.
05/02/2009 at 21:52 Ian Dorsch says:
I believe that’s correct. Valve is employee-owned.
05/02/2009 at 21:52 Rich_P says:
Here’s the thing: Valve wants people to buy the PC version first and foremost, preferably through Steam (where they make way more money per copy sold). The more people using Steam, the more games they’re likely to buy, and the more money Valve makes.
If they charge for the PC DLC, Steam loses a competitive advantage (free content). The choice between console version or PC version becomes less obvious for those on the fence.
Even so, a number of people will still prefer the console version, which is why Valve still releases games for the Xbox.
05/02/2009 at 21:56 Nick says:
I’m not blindly assuming anything, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that they are “the good guys” compared to EA. Of course they want to make money but they aren’t in the habit of letting it overule every instinct and decision they make, unlike EA. They thus far haven’t comporomised the quality of their releases for a deadline either, unlike EA.
05/02/2009 at 21:59 Anonononomous says:
“They thus far haven’t comporomised the quality of their releases for a deadline either, unlike EA.”
Then why are there only 2 versus maps in the regular release?
“Of course they want to make money but they aren’t in the habit of letting it overule every instinct and descion they make, unlike EA.”
And why are all the updates for Burnout Paradise free?
05/02/2009 at 22:00 RabidZombie says:
Valve is not run by suits full-stop. You clearly haven’t seen the Valve offices.
EU Steam pricing fiasco? Prices are now closer to the retail prices in the region. This is both necessary for many of the publishers on Steam (notice how many publishers released their games in the EU afterward) and so that they aren’t under-cutting retail which would piss retail off (retail being a major part of Valve’s and other publisher’s sales).
And best of all, if you don’t feel like it, don’t buy from Steam. It isn’t like you don’t have a choice.
05/02/2009 at 22:04 jonfitt says:
Not to open another topic for discussion but:
Amazon L4D: £26.99 €46.99
Steam L4D: £26.99 €44.99
Amazon Fallout 3: £24.96 €43.20
Seems about the same to me. I don’t see any L4D specific Euro impropriety.
05/02/2009 at 22:10 Tworak says:
is this the patch that removes the consolified interface
“Prices are now closer to the retail prices in the region.”
You’re clearly high. steam cost 35% or so more than retail
05/02/2009 at 22:12 Tworak says:
edittttttttt ~25%
05/02/2009 at 22:25 Damien says:
The problem is, M$ is basically screwing with Valve’s long-term sales here.
If you’re a 360 owner and you’ve learned that Valve’s initial release of a game is only going to be a fraction of what the eventual Ultimate Hyper-Mega Tricked-Out Edition will entail, why pay the $50 at release and then another $15 every 6 months for the expansions when you can wait and buy it all combined for the same price as the initial release? Does anyone think the Critic’s Edition will cost what the initial release was priced at plus what the DLC costs? No, it’ll be $50 — unless you already bought it when it was first released, then you’re gonna have to pony up the extra $$ over and over.
PC owners will get it free.
05/02/2009 at 22:26 Vandelay says:
I think everyone should calm down about this (read most of the comments but not all.) I am nearly certain that Valve will not charge anything for this content for PC uses. If they do happen to charge something (within reason) then is it really that big a deal. Valve always give continued support for their games where other companies ditch them once they’ve hit the shelves. If they ask for £5-£10 for something substantial then I think that is perfectly reasonable.
For those that spent $50/£35 on it then that is your own fault. I got my copy on pre-order from Amazon for £17.99 and have played the game probably at least twice a week since I bought it. I have absolutely no problem with the money I’ve spent on the product thus far.
As for the content itself, all sounds great. I’m intrigued by this new mode, but most of all I can’t wait for the new versus maps. I expect that they will be Death Toll and Dead Air, as others have suggested. Personally, I think that these would suit versus really well. Death Toll should be great for Hunters, with its numerous roofs to hide on top of, as well as the many bushes to hide in much like Blood Harvest. Dead Air should have a great finale for Versus, with lots of open spaces but also lots of cover. Versus mode is the mode I am always playing now, so some more maps will be much appreciated.
05/02/2009 at 22:29 Anonononomous says:
Damien,
How, pray tell, is it Microsoft’s fault if Valve decides to charge 360 users? DLC on the 360 can be free. Just look at the excellent example EA has made with Burnout Paradise. It’s been a year and they’re still putting out free content.
05/02/2009 at 22:36 Nick says:
“And why are all the updates for Burnout Paradise free?”
Oh gosh, you’ve got me there, EA are saintly.. this is clearly the norm for them.
05/02/2009 at 22:37 The Sombrero Kid says:
valve have said over and over again that everytime they release new free content they expand thier install base of the game by the same amount as the first wee on sale and that they feel they didn’t need to charge for it as the perception that the games get updated for free means more to them than getting some dlc cash in the short term.
05/02/2009 at 22:40 Anonononomous says:
Nick,
I’m not the one going around implying that EA never gives stuff out for free.
05/02/2009 at 22:45 A-Scale says:
Sanguine? You’re be bloody/blood colored that it will be free? What?
05/02/2009 at 23:00 Ging says:
I sort of covered myself with the bit about them releasing the SDK making a paid for DLC on the PC unlikely – but look at CoD4 which did a similar thing; monied DLC on the consoles and a free release on the PC, but both got a GOTY edition re-release.
05/02/2009 at 23:03 Ian Dorsch says:
I was thinking the same thing, Ging. There’s definitely precedent for that kind of a release, and Infinity Ward is far more console-centric these days than Valve.
05/02/2009 at 23:08 Ian Dorsch says:
Oh noes!!1!!
http://www.edge-online.com/news/paid-left-4-dead-content-spring
Man, that really surprises me.
05/02/2009 at 23:10 Tworak says:
valve fucking LOVES PC GAMING
05/02/2009 at 23:27 Heliocentric says:
Tits to them, I’ll be playing the free user made levels.
05/02/2009 at 23:32 yns88 says:
Bullshit. They’ve been insinuating the whole time that they’d make the DLC free.
And you can bet your ass that half the people here thought the game was overpriced for the content it was released with.
05/02/2009 at 23:34 Nick says:
I wouldn’t have a problem paying for it if they hadn’t been so damned underhanded in the way they sprung it, as people have said they insuated they’d be adding extra content in the same vein as TF2 (ie, free) and when buying it direct from them I was under the impression the missing campaigns in versus would be added later. For free. I’m happy to fork over small sums of money for good quality extra stuff, but please – all but the game mode is “new”, it’s just insulting and intensly irritating that they have pulled it in this deceptive manner. Not to mention charging twice what they did for TF2.
05/02/2009 at 23:40 Dzamir says:
i hope that this link http://www.edge-online.com/news/paid-left-4-dead-content-spring is a fake new, or i will say “shit! shit! shit!” like Louis on l4d ò_.
05/02/2009 at 23:40 Bryan says:
if they charge for this I’ll be $*@#%*@# pissed. Not only did they insinuate it’d be free, but it’s not that much content in the first place! One new mode! An additional mode for 2 campaigns we’ve already played! WEEE! Come on.
05/02/2009 at 23:41 lumpi says:
Just like with TF2, Valve seems to only release half of a game nowadays, and deliver the rest as updates over the coming years. TF2 would have been a pretty meager deal, if you didn’t expect new maps and updates to arrive over the coming months and years.
Now if they start testing out customer’s acceptance to putting every new update to their games behind a pay-wall, that, I hope, would be an experiment they’d regret.
Valve is taking the a-hole path a lot, lately. I hope they will keep the last bits of their classiness over the next few years.
I know it won’t last forever, though. One day, Valve will turn into a faceless corporate zombie. I just hope that transfer will continue to be so slow…
05/02/2009 at 23:43 Flint says:
The Edge Online article has updated:
Update: Due to a miscommunication, we had updated the original piece saying that PC and Xbox 360 Survival Packs would be paid. However, Valve has since told Edge that it hasn’t ruled out the possibility of the price being “$0.00.” Sorry for any confusion.
05/02/2009 at 23:45 A-Scale says:
“Update: Due to a miscommunication, we had updated the original piece saying that PC and Xbox 360 Survival Packs would be paid. However, Valve has since told Edge that it hasn’t ruled out the possibility of the price being “$0.00.” Sorry for any confusion.”
from the Edge article
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
05/02/2009 at 23:47 yns88 says:
Flint:
Oh, god damn it. Sounds like all parties involved are on edge about this.
05/02/2009 at 23:49 eyemessiah says:
From EDGE:
“Update: Due to a miscommunication, we had updated the original piece saying that PC and Xbox 360 Survival Packs would be paid. However, Valve has since told Edge that it hasn’t ruled out the possibility of the price being “$0.00.” Sorry for any confusion.”
05/02/2009 at 23:50 Ging says:
There’s an update at the bottom of the edge piece (links that mention “paid” to edge will just go to their article listing) that says they’ve been contacted by valve who said that they’ve not ruled out a price point of $0.00.
05/02/2009 at 23:50 eyemessiah says:
Wow, double scooped!
05/02/2009 at 23:51 Ging says:
haha, that’ll teach me for not refreshing… or even logging into the forum so I can edit (assuming that still works).
05/02/2009 at 23:51 Noc says:
Oh, god damn it. Sounds like all parties involved are on Edge about this.
Badum-Kssssh!
05/02/2009 at 23:52 eyemessiah says:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Its all too much! RPS SAVE US
05/02/2009 at 23:56 James G says:
@yns88
Pun intended?
Edit: Bah, we’re all talking over the top of one another.
06/02/2009 at 00:02 yns88 says:
DAMN YOU ALL
DAMN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE
I’M GOING HOME.
06/02/2009 at 00:11 Hypocee says:
Cute. Much as I love to see someone acquainted with word roots, it may be wise to work on the branches before trying pedant-fu.
06/02/2009 at 00:16 Heliocentric says:
Free or tits says I!
06/02/2009 at 00:18 Lobotomist says:
Most of people that bought L4D did expecting that Valve will continue to enrich and improve the game for free. Just like they did with TF2. Otherwise – although its a good game, L4D is not really worth 50$.
If Valve decides to charge for L4D DLC , they will be making huge negative blow to their reputation. And it will be the last game i bought from them…
But all in all game industry is gone the way of greed and its slowly sinking. So i can not say , i am to much suprised
06/02/2009 at 00:19 Gnarl says:
I’m more worried by the fact that anyone that doesn’t know the meanings of sanguine hasn’t watched Firefly.
There are people that haven’t watched Firefly? Valve charging for stuff is bad, but a life without Firefly? My diaphragm is shivering.
06/02/2009 at 00:22 Fumarole says:
I get a sneaking suspicion that people who think of TF2 and L4D as incomplete games are playing something different than me.
06/02/2009 at 00:22 Wurzel says:
Quoted from that edge article:
“Update: Due to a miscommunication, we had updated the original piece, stating that PC and Xbox 360 Survival Packs would be paid. However, Valve again contacted Edge to say that it hasn’t ruled out the possibility of the price being “$0.00.” Sorry for any confusion.”
06/02/2009 at 00:30 Aftershock says:
@Heliocentric
FREE TITS?! WHERE
But really, if the “two new maps” turn out to be death toll and dead air, i’ll be sorely disappointed. Survival sounds like it’ll be “hide in a house from a billion zombies” which is awesome.
06/02/2009 at 00:42 Nick says:
Oh, apparently there’s been an update to the edge article… if anyone else wants to post it for the 5 or 6th time?
06/02/2009 at 01:36 A-Scale says:
Left4Dead obviously shipped unfinished, as 2 of the 4 maps can’t be used in versus (who knows why?). TF2 shipped completed, but it still needed a lot of tweaking, and also suffered from a lack of maps. I think we’re used to games shipping with tons of levels, like MOHAA did. At least more than 4.
06/02/2009 at 02:33 sigma83 says:
“I’m more worried by the fact that anyone that doesn’t know the meanings of sanguine hasn’t watched Firefly.
There are people that haven’t watched Firefly? Valve charging for stuff is bad, but a life without Firefly? My diaphragm is shivering.”
Quoted for truth.
06/02/2009 at 03:38 I am beginning to understand this comment system says:
Firefly just depresses me now. How did it get only 13 episodes? COME ON!
06/02/2009 at 06:10 YouAteMyCheeto says:
@Fumarole
I’m with you on this one. People get into this whole deal about lack of content, not enough maps, only a few weapons, entirely multiplayer, etc.
Ummm, I don’t know what to say about that. I have played more L4D and TF2 (in their apparently incomplete forms) than I have of any game since Baldur’s Gate 2 (with the possible exception of Super Smash Bros Melee). I have bought a good number of games in the intervening period for the mythical price point of $50 and I wish all of them were as polished as TF2 and L4D. Sure, a lot of them had more “content,” but at the end of the day isn’t how much you play the game the only think that matters?
I think that a lot of the problem stems from Valve releasing the Orange Box. I don’t mean to say that it wasn’t a good decision, far from it. But I think it led to people expecting a lot more value from Valve than they do from other companies.
@A-Scale
You want to talk about unfinished games? Try looking at the MMO market. The whole point is that you’re making an investment in a game that exists in various states of incompleteness, especially at launch (when you’ll pay $50 for them). And those ones make you pay a monthly fee.
As for the tweaks that TF2 required: I don’t know a single good multiplayer game that has not gone through a substantial series of patches and tweaks. Take a look at the Blizzard games for an example of that. I think Valve is doing a fantastic job of keeping TF2 interesting and balanced (for the most part). How long did GoW2 go with absolutely game-breaking bugs in multiplayer? To their credit Epic has fixed most of them, but it sure took a while.
I would be as upset as anyone else if they charged for DLC for L4D just because I’m used to it coming free in TF2, but I think I’m just spoiled.
06/02/2009 at 06:31 PJ says:
So is this a bad time to link this? http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/30/stardock-gamers-bill-of-rights/
06/02/2009 at 08:04 Dinger says:
Point of information: Josh Whedon tends to overuse rules of order. Anyway, you guys have no sense of humour.
Choleric: Hunter/Tank
Melancholy: Witch/Smoker
Phlegmatic: Boomer
Sanguine: Hunter
06/02/2009 at 08:25 CannibalChris says:
As soon as I saw the Edge article, I, in what can only be a drunken mistake, sent this sorta hurtful email to Gabe Newell.
Dear Mr Newell,
When I learned the the Left 4 Dead “Survival Pack” would not be free on PC, this is the moment my faith in democracy died.
Living in Australia, the retail version of Left 4 Dead is and always has been AU$100. On Steam, the current price (including conversion rates) tips around AU$80 – AU$90.
So, assuming this “Survival Pack” is around US$10, I (and many other Australian and probably UK fans) will be paying at least twice this price.
So I guess what I’m really saying is, why? Why not give the “Survival Pack” stuff away for free? The SDK is nice ‘n’ all, but it seems a right and royal kick to the nuts that I should have to spend AU$120 on a game that people in America are getting for $60.
It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3′s “Operation Anchorage” expansion. I was lucky enough to have a friend send me the Installer, but for people who have paid the full AU$20 for ONE NEW QUEST… it’s just awful, really.
And same with this “Survival Pack”. One new game mode? 2 new maps? Valve has always provided Free Updates… Day of Defeat: Source underwent an engine change, practically changing the whole face of the game… for free. Team Fortress 2 has had more the 50 new achievements added… also for free. Left 4 Dead should be continuing this tradition.
Maybe by Spring my mind would have changed on this issue. But for now, I feel I need some consolance… and if you, or Valve’s marketing guys, or Doug “Episode 2′s ending was My Idea” Lombardi can’t do it… then no-one can.
Thanks for your time,
Enraged Fan
And I got this reply from Gabe:
It’s free as it’s always been.
Needless to say, he showed me.
http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=33530180dg5.jpg
06/02/2009 at 08:36 Muzman says:
Zoe didn’t quite get the nuance: humor medicine associates blood with excitement thanks partly to where it turns up when people are …aroused in various ways. Take blushing… and other things (an angry belligerent person’s “blood is” often “up”, just hopefully not.. there. or maybe that would provide a handicap in a fight, I don’t know)
er..Anyway, back to that sweet sexy violence talk (oh, it’s about money isn’t it..)
06/02/2009 at 08:47 MultiVaC says:
Why does RPS still have the reference to Edge’s completely false info in the article? That’s clearly a health risk to people who don’t read the entire comments section.
06/02/2009 at 09:05 Jim Rossignol says:
Because we have to sleep?
06/02/2009 at 09:10 subedii says:
I hope we can put all the crying to rest now? Or are people going to try and misinterpret something else and spew about how Valve betrayed them?
Grief.
06/02/2009 at 09:32 Jockel says:
Am I the only one who is no impressed, even if it’s free on the PC? Survival mode sounds interesting but no new campaigns for L4D teamplay? The Versus mode for the other two campaigns should have been in the release version.
06/02/2009 at 09:33 Okami says:
Yay for Valve!
06/02/2009 at 10:30 Nighthood says:
This seems like a good contender for “RPS article that has caused most drama ever”. Sheesh, even if Valve do make you pay for it, it’s not the end of the world.
06/02/2009 at 10:44 phuzz says:
So now we know that Valve still wuv us, anyone want to make uninformed speculation about Survival mode?
06/02/2009 at 10:51 smorgasbord says:
Even the most ardent fan will agree 4 campaigns isnt enough. Crossing my fingers for a new campaign with a shopping mall. Please, please Valve!
06/02/2009 at 10:57 subedii says:
@Jockel: The updates always come incrementally. They’re not immediately huge expansion packs but over time the amount of stuff that gets changed and added increases drastically. Just look at Team Fortress 2.
I also think you underestimate how much effort needs to be put into properly tailoring maps (especially two whole campaigns ) for proper multiplayer play, and balancing a whole new game mode.
Then there’s also all the background changes that need to take place, all the work done to bring the SDK to the public, and tailoring the multiplayer and matchmaking code so that it can adequately and effectively cope with new multiplayer maps that are going to be coming in.
None of this is a small task.
06/02/2009 at 11:20 Dinger says:
Survival mode will be one of the following:
A. a Time- or Zombie-kill-based mode in a static environment (Think: Hold out in a shopping mall for one hour); or making the current maps static. (opening the city up, for example)
B. A mode of playing with no player respawns and tweaks to the damage/health/weapons available.
06/02/2009 at 11:32 thefanciestofpants says:
Fuck yes SDK. Bout bloomin’ time.
Time to dust off my .SMD compiler.
06/02/2009 at 11:48 The Sombrero Kid says:
i feel the need to say i told you so and i don’t hate it i like it, my precognition is becoming an issue, i’ve got too much smug
06/02/2009 at 13:34 l4d enthusiast says:
Am I alone in thinking 35 euros (the price I paid with the l4d pack) was more than fair for the quality content and the through-the-roof replayability value?
More free content is only going to add value to those 35 euros.
06/02/2009 at 14:01 Jockel says:
@subedii: I can’t really say anything about TF2. I own the Orange Box but never played it that much so I didn’t follow the updates.
It’s just that I play simple co-op L4D most of the time so I hoped for more content there. I guess for Versus players it’s great but the content (assuming they enable the two old campaigns now) was already there so it could not have been that much work.
The more I think about “Survivor” the more interesting it becomes. So I hope for that. And better matchmaking is always welcome.
And how are custom maps handled nowadays in Steam? Do they automatically download if I want to join a game with custom maps or do I have download and install them manually?
06/02/2009 at 16:18 Smurfy says:
What the hell? Why was everyone wildly assuming it wouldn’t free?
06/02/2009 at 16:21 Tei says:
I am curious about the SDK.
Since this game was rushed and release uncomplete to cash into XMax territory. I expect the code to be a “crazy mesh”. Hard to mantain, hard to understand, hart to make modifications.
But I could be wrong, the Valve programmers are very good, in several ways (one of then is quality of code) so maybe is am wrong.
What this mean for the normal player? nothing, or maybe small problems… say… maybe creating maps for L4D will be a more buggy process than most people expect.
I don’t remenber other game with more bugs and exploits than L4D.
A interesting tool to be distributed with the SDK, is the nodes compiler. With the current tools we can’t play any random map with L4D, because L4D need special navigation nodes generated for then. If this tool is released, any, and all Source games (even the other Zombie mods maps) will be playabla with L4D instantly.
Also, the way L4D, new maps can mean different gameplays setups. Imagine maps with more than one saferoom…. Or maps with lots of destructible doors/movible cars.
I would love to see a “parking loft” map, where you have to climb to the top, while tanks spawn everywhere trowing cars around.
This game is special, the demo was removed, or people would have played this 1.5 levels to death. Once there are like moar than 9000 levels the world will be crazy.
I only see a problem. QuakeWorld, HalfLife1, Unreal, etc.. these engines autodownload maps that the client lack. This is very nice way to get new maps you don’t have. Will L4D support that system? You can think, of course, It will… but I have my doubts. Why? no idea.
06/02/2009 at 16:42 manintheshack says:
‘it would be bad form to go ‘and this will be availible for purchase on the xBox market place, or is free to PC users.’
Infinity Ward put up extra maps for free on PC and not on XBL. Don’t remember a great deal of outcry.
Plus console users should pay extra for Valve to grace their machines. They don’t deserve their love! They weren’t there in the beginning! etc. etc…
06/02/2009 at 17:22 Fumarole says:
Pray tell what exactly felt rushed about Left 4 Dead? If you say that two campaigns weren’t playable in versus you’re going to be banned from the internet for a week because you’ve obviously no experience with rushed/incomplete/buggy games.
06/02/2009 at 17:22 Tworak says:
“Infinity Ward put up extra maps for free on PC and not on XBL.”
Payed by Nvidia if I recall correctly.
06/02/2009 at 17:32 Tei says:
@Fumarole:
– Content removed/unlock, not ready for release.
– Lots of trivial bugs and map bugs, that show not enough testing. ( Like the ability to clone yourself. Imagine TF2 with the ability of the Spy to spawn a infinite ammount of clones of himself.)
– Small errors on i18n packaging: If you change from spanish to english, the client needs to redownload things. This show some names are shared, and sould not, so files are overwritten.
– Basic gameplay broken. If survivors are intelligent, rushing or closet defense are “I win” buttons. Imagine Starcraft with one side having a weapon that is easy to get from the start and is “I win” button.
– Uncompatibility with some popular hardware, some 8800 nvidia cars (fortunally enough, I am not affected).
– Remeved cut scenes
– Comments of the authors limited to one campaing.
For a more complete and better list, use the search option on the steam forums.
Sure, the game is awesome, was already awesome with 1.5 maps on pre-release, but is in some ways more broken that how was KOTOR2 (a popular rushed title)
06/02/2009 at 18:07 D says:
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3346/33530180dg5.jpg
I LOVE how this screenshot has an ad in big letters telling Gabe “THAT WASEN’T SO HARD WAS IT!”
06/02/2009 at 18:30 Rich_P says:
I LOVE how this screenshot has an ad in big letters telling Gabe “THAT WASEN’T SO HARD WAS IT!”
ahahahah that’s brilliant.
06/02/2009 at 19:15 Funky Badger says:
There have been plenty of map-packs released for free on XBLA – Gears and Rainbow Six both had them, Halo too?
Other than that: is PC gamers’ inherent cheapness at all related to the prevalence of piracy on the platform?
06/02/2009 at 20:20 Kadayi says:
“The SDK update is also due for release this spring, and is free of charge to all owners of L4D on the PC.”
I’m unsure how so many people seem to interpret that line as meaning Valve are going to be charging for DLC in the future. The game is multi-platform and everyone well knows MS aren’t into the idea of there being free 360 DLC. If anything it’s simply clarifying to whom it will be free, namely PC users. No doubt as and when there is a 360 release a DLC charge will be applicable.
As for future L4D DLC on PC, personally if Valve released a couple more campaigns/movies I wouldn’t have a problem with forking over the requisite £5 – £10 such content might be pitched at, esp given the sheer amount of man hours of enjoyment such DLC is likely provide. People think nothing of blowing a fiver on a coffee and a cake at Starbucks, but god forbid a developer tries to make some money on future content……..
06/02/2009 at 20:44 Newblade says:
@Tei
-I’m a 8800 user and never had any problem. I’m sure it is a minority.
-They made a choice about the cutscenes long ago. It is probably they never had anything more than animated storyboards.
-Comments on the autor limited to one campaign? Maybe that was all they wanted to tell, I don’t see that as a sing of haste.
-In the others you’re right, but calling the gameplay ‘broken’ is argueable.
-There’s a lot of whining on the Steam forums.
06/02/2009 at 20:57 subedii says:
Le sigh.
Alright, since you’re so freaking insistent on how clearly and badly Valve botched up, let’s review.
06/02/2009 at 20:58 subedii says:
Ignore above post for crappy formatting, apologies to all
Le sigh.
Alright, since you’re so freaking insistent on how clearly and badly Valve botched up, let’s review.
About the only point I can partially agree with, they took those two out to meet time constraints. As opposed to simply dumping them in because “hey the maps are there” and not doing any balancing. Problem is, I can understand why they did it, the game was undergoing constant revision up to release, and the decision to have a separate competitive mode came fairly late. So they didn’t have time to make redefine a couple of campaigns before ship time. I can’t say it’s a huge issue since they’re releasing them just a few months later.
As you say yourself, it’s a trivial bug, and one that was fixed pretty freaking fast once identified. Like, within a week. Not unsurprisingly, trivial bugs will always make it through to the end product (and the reason that there was never a bug of this nature in TF2 is because TF2 never had AI actors), so it’s a question of how fast they can be dealt with once they’re picked up in the wild. So far Valve’s record has been much faster and far more frequent than any other developer I’ve seen to date.
Again, as you say, trivial, and fixed immediately after it was discovered.
If you’re talking singleplayer, the game is most certainly NOT easy, most people I’ve seen play and have played with definitely die a tonne on the harder difficulty levels.
If you’re talking about VS, then I’m afraid you’re misconstruing the nature of the game: fundamentally that it’s asymmetric and designed around the infected having a tougher time of play. Until of course that it’s their turn, and then we see who the better team actually is. What I will say is that the point scoring system certainly has it’s issues. So far as I’ve seen, the better team usually wins. Sometimes it comes down to points, which as I said, definitely has it’s issues, but I can’t really call the gameplay broken.
The basic gameplay is only broken if you believe that both the infected and survivors sides are supposed to have the same chance of success. The game isn’t designed that way or with that intention in mind. This is also the reason that both teams swap sides on a level.
Fortunately, I am an owner of an 8800 Nvidia card and… hmm… nope, still seems to work. Tell you what, I’ll try whacking my card a few times with a hammer first…
Or perhaps you’re referring to the issue where Nvidia’s new release drivers caused issues
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759292
Design decision. I can’t say that having cutscenes slow down the gameplay in a multiplayer game would be particularly awesome to me.
Only needs to be in one campaign. Anything further and they’re re-iterating everything they’ve already said (going over the course of 4-5 levels here) or having to go on about specific types of wall texture in each level.
I’m sorry, but you’re comparing Left 4 Dead to freaking KotoR II? You don’t remember a game more buggy than Left 4 Dead? Seriously? Sorry, I’m calling bull on that right now, I can easily think up five right away, and a whole freaking list later on if you give me time. If you want to see what a buggy and problematic game really looks like, you should’ve been playing Gears of War 2, a game they didn’t even bother patching for months.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=cQ0gtjGxJs4
And that’s just a sampler of the kind of glitches you’d see.
Seriously, there was the odd glitch and bug with Team Fortress 2, GASP, right from release. Like I said, it’s impossible to actually find and test every single combination of circumstances that may occur, you do as thoroughly as you can, and when a glitch turns up in the wild, you fix it. So far, I can’t say I’ve seen anything slow about Valve’s responses to any issues that have cropped up in their multiplayer games to date.
06/02/2009 at 21:33 Fumarole says:
Yeah, the whole concept of asymmetric gameplay seems to escape some people. The game simply isn’t designed so that survivors make it to the end of each map half of the time. And comparing Left 4 Dead to Knights of the Old Republic 2 is laughable.
06/02/2009 at 21:35 Tei says:
About the broken gameplay:
I agree about the asymetric sides, and i love it. I am a old PvPM lotro player, where theres one side x3 powerfull than the other, and I like asymetric gameplay more than symetric. But there are problems, like corner camping, that remove all the fun from the game. Thats integrall part of the game, since the survivor mele is soo important (and fun) element of it. With more time, Valve could have figure out how to desintegrate these cheap and boring tactics.
Away, thanks for your post. I was not tryiing to “prove” nothing, just giving the information you ask for.
06/02/2009 at 23:16 manintheshack says:
‘“Infinity Ward put up extra maps for free on PC and not on XBL.”
Payed by Nvidia if I recall correctly.’
Although I resent the fact that you called bullshit, I say … you spelt ‘paid’ wrong!
Zing!
15/03/2009 at 05:25 freddy gamer says:
awwwww no new weapons like a bazooka would b nice
and a heavy machine gun would b cool the bazooka would be good against the tank but make you slow so you would have to carry your pistol the machine gun would be good against hordes but less affective on tanks =(
WHY VALVE WHYYYYYYYYYYYY
25/03/2009 at 22:08 slamdunk316 says:
the new l4d dlc includes survival mode ( a mode sort of like nazi zombies on cod 5 except you dont board up windows and buy weapons off the wall just points taking out hunters smokers boomers tank hordes ect but you cant use medkits)dead air and death toll on versus mode which will be cool and 2 new campains have been confirmed in a mall and milatary base but have not been said for the update and this is a rumor my friend told me that a new boss infected and weapons i know its true about survival and versus and new campains but niot on the dlc for spring the other stuff isnt probably true just a rumor :]
25/03/2009 at 22:33 Yargh says:
wow, that last comment just leaves me breathless… Almost the textbook example of the Excitable Internet Person.
No punctuation? Check.
No Spellcheck? Check.
Verging on the incomprehensible? Check.
Did I miss anything?
25/03/2009 at 22:40 Dan Harris says:
Well, you capitalised spell-check instead of wow, while failing to hyphenate spell-check.
Which isn’t even a word!
Zing!
17/04/2009 at 05:04 Tommy says:
Im new with this is the DLC a CD or is it something i got to update?
21/04/2009 at 23:52 blazinkiller813 says:
how r u supposed to download the new content?
22/04/2009 at 18:06 Dan says:
@subedii
I’m surprised anyone can manage to make a relatively bug-free game using UE3.