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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Unexplored Territory&#8221;: The Cactus Interview</title>
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	<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/</link>
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		<title>By: Diverse</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-361504</link>
		<dc:creator>Diverse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-361504</guid>
		<description>Great interview. I&#039;ve been playing Cactus&#039; games for years and am always eager to see what he comes up with next. I was very surprised to see him mention Shintaro Kago, really awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great interview. I&#8217;ve been playing Cactus&#8217; games for years and am always eager to see what he comes up with next. I was very surprised to see him mention Shintaro Kago, really awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Yam</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-146095</link>
		<dc:creator>Yam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-146095</guid>
		<description>Am I the only one who gets mildly motion-sick from trying to play Mondo Agency?  I want to play it, but...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only one who gets mildly motion-sick from trying to play Mondo Agency?  I want to play it, but&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: an ape</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145821</link>
		<dc:creator>an ape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145821</guid>
		<description>First person adventure + JG Ballard = small tear out of the corner of my eye. 

If not actual narrative influence from the authors Soderstrom has mentionned, athough I don&#039;t see why not, games could easily draw their aesthetics or moods from more diverse influences than they currently are. It seems that there is much inbreeding of genre conventions (be they mechanistic of aesthetic) to the point where you end up with games that seem to have been develloped with a bullet point list of &quot;what a good game has&quot; with little regard to how those points interact. Dead Space comes to mind.

Luckily there are some games like Tension, Zeno Clash, FEZ  or Cactus&#039; own Braindead Toon Underworld that might end up being those rare flashes of brilliance we sporadically see outside the usual spectrum of gaming.

I know there are a lot more promising games out there, just naming a few. Anyone else care to add?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First person adventure + JG Ballard = small tear out of the corner of my eye. </p>
<p>If not actual narrative influence from the authors Soderstrom has mentionned, athough I don&#8217;t see why not, games could easily draw their aesthetics or moods from more diverse influences than they currently are. It seems that there is much inbreeding of genre conventions (be they mechanistic of aesthetic) to the point where you end up with games that seem to have been develloped with a bullet point list of &#8220;what a good game has&#8221; with little regard to how those points interact. Dead Space comes to mind.</p>
<p>Luckily there are some games like Tension, Zeno Clash, FEZ  or Cactus&#8217; own Braindead Toon Underworld that might end up being those rare flashes of brilliance we sporadically see outside the usual spectrum of gaming.</p>
<p>I know there are a lot more promising games out there, just naming a few. Anyone else care to add?</p>
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		<title>By: MrFake</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145371</link>
		<dc:creator>MrFake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145371</guid>
		<description>AndrewC:  You&#039;re assuming that programming and game design are done by the same people.  It&#039;s probably very common, and especially so for indie games, but it&#039;s not necessary.

I think it&#039;s just the same wall that games have been crashing against since inception: there&#039;s an underlying need, at the moment, for games to be fun.  They are judged highly against that.  When you slip into the abstract or similar modes of conveyance, you tread farther from accepted norms of gameplay styles; accepted because people tend to enjoy them more than others.

You can always wrap deep and innovative concepts around a more conventional gameplay style, but that&#039;s not really any different from any other game, is it?  With authors and filmmakers, they can use (or abuse, in the case of Lynch) the medium but twist the telling for effect.  Games, however, don&#039;t just use a medium, they are the medium.  They are each unique in how you play them, and every gamer approaches each one uniquely.

It&#039;s not that programming needs to shift towards these new types of thought, it&#039;s the design and purpose of the game itself.  Maybe they can make it fun (for instance Lynch could be fun, Kubrick not), but they need first to accept that it doesn&#039;t have to be, or at least that there are alternative ways to enjoy a game.

I figured most programmers come to the scene for the innovation, though most get watered down (or enslaved by mass-market giants like EA).  It&#039;s just they have an idea of what would be a fun or cool game, and so their innovation is only a cool new idea or approach, not a provocative experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AndrewC:  You&#8217;re assuming that programming and game design are done by the same people.  It&#8217;s probably very common, and especially so for indie games, but it&#8217;s not necessary.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s just the same wall that games have been crashing against since inception: there&#8217;s an underlying need, at the moment, for games to be fun.  They are judged highly against that.  When you slip into the abstract or similar modes of conveyance, you tread farther from accepted norms of gameplay styles; accepted because people tend to enjoy them more than others.</p>
<p>You can always wrap deep and innovative concepts around a more conventional gameplay style, but that&#8217;s not really any different from any other game, is it?  With authors and filmmakers, they can use (or abuse, in the case of Lynch) the medium but twist the telling for effect.  Games, however, don&#8217;t just use a medium, they are the medium.  They are each unique in how you play them, and every gamer approaches each one uniquely.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that programming needs to shift towards these new types of thought, it&#8217;s the design and purpose of the game itself.  Maybe they can make it fun (for instance Lynch could be fun, Kubrick not), but they need first to accept that it doesn&#8217;t have to be, or at least that there are alternative ways to enjoy a game.</p>
<p>I figured most programmers come to the scene for the innovation, though most get watered down (or enslaved by mass-market giants like EA).  It&#8217;s just they have an idea of what would be a fun or cool game, and so their innovation is only a cool new idea or approach, not a provocative experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Filipe</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145203</link>
		<dc:creator>Filipe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145203</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really glad you profiled Cactus. The end of Mondo Medicals just made me bolt upright. It was so provocative. Instead of tying off the game, I was left with a sense of unease. I need more moments like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really glad you profiled Cactus. The end of Mondo Medicals just made me bolt upright. It was so provocative. Instead of tying off the game, I was left with a sense of unease. I need more moments like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonic Goo</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145188</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonic Goo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145188</guid>
		<description>Super Anon:

I haven&#039;t worked with many modding tools, but the ones I have aren&#039;t very accessible and more advanced tends to mean feature creep rather than easier to use. Anyone have good tips for simple, accessible tools? Google has failed me, it seems...

(or, I have failed @ Google, of course...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Super Anon:</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t worked with many modding tools, but the ones I have aren&#8217;t very accessible and more advanced tends to mean feature creep rather than easier to use. Anyone have good tips for simple, accessible tools? Google has failed me, it seems&#8230;</p>
<p>(or, I have failed @ Google, of course&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: whitebrice</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145180</link>
		<dc:creator>whitebrice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145180</guid>
		<description>No mention of Illegal Communication? Definitely my favorite of cactus&#039; game and among my all-time favorite games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No mention of Illegal Communication? Definitely my favorite of cactus&#8217; game and among my all-time favorite games.</p>
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		<title>By: Super Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145092</link>
		<dc:creator>Super Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145092</guid>
		<description>Also: Modding tools, open source game engines and level editors are becoming more popular and easy to use, which also helps contribute to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also: Modding tools, open source game engines and level editors are becoming more popular and easy to use, which also helps contribute to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Super Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145086</link>
		<dc:creator>Super Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145086</guid>
		<description>AndrewC: But then again, programming being a huge technical hurdle might become a thing of the past, with tools like Game Maker (which Cactus uses to make his games), Multimedia Fusion and RPG Maker becoming available to anyone with a decent internet connection and a will to create. While traditionally making video games has required huge teams of programmers, artists and designers, we now have guys like Cactus, who can make their vision reality with no prior programming experience. Basically, rapid development tools enable &quot;non-nerds&quot; to make games as well. And these programs have only been around for a few years, so who knows what the indie scene will bring us in 2009? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AndrewC: But then again, programming being a huge technical hurdle might become a thing of the past, with tools like Game Maker (which Cactus uses to make his games), Multimedia Fusion and RPG Maker becoming available to anyone with a decent internet connection and a will to create. While traditionally making video games has required huge teams of programmers, artists and designers, we now have guys like Cactus, who can make their vision reality with no prior programming experience. Basically, rapid development tools enable &#8220;non-nerds&#8221; to make games as well. And these programs have only been around for a few years, so who knows what the indie scene will bring us in 2009? :)</p>
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		<title>By: PleasingFungus</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145031</link>
		<dc:creator>PleasingFungus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145031</guid>
		<description>Agh. Just downloaded and played Mondo Agency. [i]It is the strangest game I have ever played.[/i] And there&#039;s some lovely competition for that position!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agh. Just downloaded and played Mondo Agency. [i]It is the strangest game I have ever played.[/i] And there&#8217;s some lovely competition for that position!</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewC</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-145011</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-145011</guid>
		<description>Are games more expensive than movies to make, even at an &#039;amateur&#039; or &#039;bedroom&#039; level? Certainly it is very cheap to write a novel - at least in terms of money - which is why Soderstrom&#039;s references to Burroughs or Dick seem wobbly. Certainly making a commerical game can not happen without a great deal of funding - and that means corporations, which means return on investment, which means less experimentalism.

But maybe this indie revolution will happen and games without the 3D whizz will, in the future, not seem like a compromise or like second rate product.

But here&#039;s my wonderful theory for the real reason it isn&#039;t happening much:
Programmers are nerds. Programming is hard and, historically, not sexy, so the sorts of people who would be drawn into this specialised shadowy world of obtuse number crunching have been those drawn to the mechanics and the abstract mathematical structures of it. these people have not tended to have the types of personalities that tend to think in terms of theme, subtext or cultural statement.
The only ones with enough passion to get over the immense technical hurdle of knowing how to make games are not ones naturally given to the sorts of artistic statments Soderstrom is talking about.
That&#039;s nice and broad and all-encompassing, isn&#039;t it? The first game was about space ships. Programming nomenclature seems to hold a heavy debt to D&amp;D. Well, it&#039;s a theory.
The solution, if that theory holds any water, is generational. Creative types growing up now no longer have to choose to learn computers and programming because it is now all around them. They can&#039;t not do it. So when they come to want to express themselves, a &#039;game&#039; will be just as natural a choice as a book or a film.
So we just have to wait for those punk kids to grow up a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are games more expensive than movies to make, even at an &#8216;amateur&#8217; or &#8216;bedroom&#8217; level? Certainly it is very cheap to write a novel &#8211; at least in terms of money &#8211; which is why Soderstrom&#8217;s references to Burroughs or Dick seem wobbly. Certainly making a commerical game can not happen without a great deal of funding &#8211; and that means corporations, which means return on investment, which means less experimentalism.</p>
<p>But maybe this indie revolution will happen and games without the 3D whizz will, in the future, not seem like a compromise or like second rate product.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s my wonderful theory for the real reason it isn&#8217;t happening much:<br />
Programmers are nerds. Programming is hard and, historically, not sexy, so the sorts of people who would be drawn into this specialised shadowy world of obtuse number crunching have been those drawn to the mechanics and the abstract mathematical structures of it. these people have not tended to have the types of personalities that tend to think in terms of theme, subtext or cultural statement.<br />
The only ones with enough passion to get over the immense technical hurdle of knowing how to make games are not ones naturally given to the sorts of artistic statments Soderstrom is talking about.<br />
That&#8217;s nice and broad and all-encompassing, isn&#8217;t it? The first game was about space ships. Programming nomenclature seems to hold a heavy debt to D&amp;D. Well, it&#8217;s a theory.<br />
The solution, if that theory holds any water, is generational. Creative types growing up now no longer have to choose to learn computers and programming because it is now all around them. They can&#8217;t not do it. So when they come to want to express themselves, a &#8216;game&#8217; will be just as natural a choice as a book or a film.<br />
So we just have to wait for those punk kids to grow up a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonic Goo</title>
		<link>http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/02/11/unexplored-territory-the-cactus-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-144987</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonic Goo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=7961#comment-144987</guid>
		<description>I have a few ideas for games that are at least sortof in that direction. Now all I need is a few million in funding and a few dozen people to build it with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a few ideas for games that are at least sortof in that direction. Now all I need is a few million in funding and a few dozen people to build it with.</p>
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