Comments on: Bastard Of The Old Republic, On Eurogamer

By: malkav11

malkav11 — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:25:44 +0000

Oh, and for the record it’s even better when moral decisions are, y’know, actual moral decisions with unclear impacts and murky waters. Like in the Witcher, or in the Geneforge games. But it’s really hard to pull that off and I’ll settle for having interesting, non-mercenary evil to perform.

By: malkav11

malkav11 — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:21:39 +0000

I greatly prefer playing the evil road when the option presents itself and is a true option. That’s pretty rare, though. Prior to KOTOR, I never found that evil was a genuinely viable choice for someone who wanted to take an experience-optimal path through the game. Sure, Baldur’s Gate and Fallout have the option to be a bastard, but you lock yourself out of quests, you get into a lot more combat (which you may not be able to manage), and you often get less reward for what you do do. Neverwinter Nights, the original campaign has “evil” options, but they’re mostly just being a bit sulky or wanting money for doing hard work (gosh, how horrible) and none of them have any influence at all. Etc.

KOTOR, on the other hand, had a wide array of bastardry on offer and it’s perfectly viable, even a bit -more- rewarding to take the evil path and screw everyone you come across. Particularly rewarding? Being able to force choke an annoying person in one conversation. (Assuming you’ve bought the appropriate power, but you’re Dark Side, why wouldn’t you?) After that he won’t ever talk to you again, just look at you all frightened and wide-eyed.

Unfortunately, there’s way too much “evil” which simply consists of wanting to get paid. That was 90% of NWN2’s original campaign “evil” as well. Though murdering the local bullies in the opening and betraying almost your entire party to serve the big bad evil are nice options.

I should note that I don’t count wantonly murdering people as a viable “evil” solution – you can do plenty of that in Fallout 3, but it’s declasse. I look for the more intelligent brand of evil where I am killing people for specific gain or to unleash some greater atrocity.

And I never am a dick to my party members. These are the people that I need to work with, after all. It doesn’t benefit me to tear them down and it certainly -can- benefit me to gain their good opinion even as I kill and poison and betray. Especially if, as in KOTOR II, I can talk them into my point of view.

By: Hmm-Hmm.

Hmm-Hmm. — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:25:22 +0000

Nice article. Couldnt play an evil guy if my live depeded on it, myself.. but then, I don’t care to do so either.

By: Funky Badger

Funky Badger — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:13:33 +0000

Was incredible impressed with the “Evil Wookie Twist” at the end of KOTOR1. I find it easier to play evil the more cliched and insultingly stupid the choices presented in-game are – I’m looking at you, NWN2.

(Playing through Fable 2 as a psychotic militant vegan is a barrel of laughs though)

By: Z

Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:12:05 +0000

Buckermann: I warned you going in.

By: Helm

Helm — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:57:50 +0000

Wonderful writing John Walker. Thank you.

By: Lukasz

Lukasz — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:07:04 +0000

awesome stuff, great article

on my first playthrough of KOTOR2 I was myself. Took options which best represent my beliefs. Ended up as good neutral.
didn’t see half of the content and didn’t even get the special class :(.
they should give more options for being neutral.

By: Iain

Iain — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:42:54 +0000

KOTOR and KOTOR II are probably more fun to play by going down the Dark Side path than the Light Side path. And the top tier Dark Side powers are just ridiculous – by the time you get Force Storm (or Force Crush in KOTOR II) you don’t even need your lightsaber anymore.

And HK-47 has much funnier dialogue if you play Evil… if that’s not a good reason to be bad, I don’t know what is.

By: Buckermann

Buckermann — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:39:43 +0000

Thanks Z….
I just wasted 7 hours of my life.
Well, they are not really wasted. But still, the they are gone, and will never come back.
Anyway, you owe me 7 hours. Someday I may ask you to get them back. Don’t ruin them.

By: Hoernchen

Hoernchen — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:53:29 +0000

More evil please.

By: Kadayi

Kadayi — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:08:08 +0000

@John

Quality stuff. I admire your dedication to journalistic inquiry to hold the course despite the wretchedness you’re feeling. Looking forward to further instalments. I must admit I generally thought pretty much the all of the mission choices seemed to be variations of:-

1) make a noble sacrifice (+1 Jedi)
2) Make a practical decision that gets you nowhere (+1 Neutral..and you can never trust a neutral..)
3) Go into that room and strangle a box full of puppies in front of a captive audience of recently orphaned infants you bastard!!! (oh yeah here’s you’re lousy +1 Sith..hope you sleep well puppy killer….)

Which short of being a Psychopath or imbecile pretty much made route 1 the only way to go.

By: skalpadda

skalpadda — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:48:48 +0000

@DMcCool: “The whole “I’m going to trust this total stranger with the most important decision of my life” buisness I just find..offputting. And the dialogue options are so polarised, cliched, I find it impossible to even pretend I’m RPing a real person in any of their games.”

I think it depends a bit on your attitude and what you want from the game if you find these things annoying or that they pull you out of character. I don’t really want to role play a real person, because usually real people are rather dull. I want a fun adventure where I meet interesting characters and get into fun fights.

I also find real people are generally pretty boring and clichéd in the way they interact with people other than close friends, so I don’t find it that strange in a game. As for trusting strangers with incredibly important decisions, we have that in real life as well, when we go to the doctor or dentist, when we do military service (both trusting your fellow soldiers and following orders from superiors) government, police, career advisers, and so on.

I found both KotOR games handled that fairly well since you could often get opinions from several party members before making a decision. I can completely understand if others felt it was lacking, but it worked for me as good entertainment :)