Comments on: Tom Chick on Endwar: Is Less More?

By: ComVlad

ComVlad — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:02:59 +0000

I tried endwar at a friends place, and have to agree that while it is a great console rts by pc standards its extremely quite substandard. Reading the comments I am however really surprised that it hasn’t been compared to its closest pc analogue-Massive Entartainments brilliant debut Ground Control, which had everything that endwar had and a lot more (although it had no economy at all). The only area where i might give endwar a win over Ground control is in multiplayer. Actually if endwar’s developer had at least added a Ground Control-like special weapon/equipment ability to their units i would have been far happier with their product.

By: caesarbear

caesarbear — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:44:15 +0000

This is just another bizarre Tom Chick-ism. It’s pure rationalization of an odd-ball opinion. There have been numerous RTS games of the past where the ‘less is more’ quality could be applied. Mentioning EndWar in the same breath as Kohan is just ridiculous. The alternative list at the end just seems like more passive aggresiveness. There’s nothing wrong with liking the game, but trying to argue it somehow has superior and noteworthy merits is, well… a talent of creative writing.

By: malkav11

malkav11 — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:45:04 +0000

That’s just it. EndWar -isn’t- a run of the mill RTS, as Tom’s article points out. It’s an incredibly barebones, dry RTS with one interesting gimmick. It’s really more of a (stripped down) board game running in real-time 3D than it is like almost anything previously labelled an RTS.

And not the kind of boardgame I like, either.

The voice controls are definitely something that should be cribbed for use in future, better console RTSes, though.

By: DigitalSignalX

DigitalSignalX — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:27:56 +0000

If you play without voice commands at all, it becomes immediately apparent how much “game play” this game truly lacks. It could have been a turn based card game with fancy graphics and captured a more appreciative audience imho.

There is utterly no strategy, no tactics. Rob said it best: “rock paper scissors” in explodey next gen graphics with a nice gimmick for controls.

By: O.DOGG

O.DOGG — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:20:00 +0000

I played it for a bit, and even though it is a very uninspired RTS, the voice controls give it a unique feeling. I wish the units had more personality, and the commands more variety. It was definitely cool for a while barking orders at the troops. I’m really anxious to see them develop this technology further.

By: Kez

Kez — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:57:56 +0000

Picked up Endwar with the PS3 bluetooth headset packed in when Target had it on sale for $49.99 instead of $89.99.

It’s a fun game, not terribly deep, but best of all I essentially got a free PS3 bluetooth headset. The voice command stuff works really well, in my experience.

By: Baris

Baris — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:50:51 +0000

@Subject706
That seems fair. I guess I was being a little edgy and mistook you for one of the people who say they hated a popular game and they’ll never buy from the developer/publisher again because they’re so far above it. To be honest, I didn’t enjoy Far Cry 2 that much either, but most people I know liked it.

By: jonfitt

jonfitt — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:11:31 +0000

I’m not sure asymmetry makes it any easier, or harder as far as design goes (assuming total number of units is the same).
Yes you can design side A so that it can counter side B’s advantages if played right, and had it’s own advantages that side B can counter, but you almost always have to account for A vs A battles which are symmetric.
I guess CoH would be an exception to that.

By: Gap Gen

Gap Gen — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:52:34 +0000

Yes, I was interested by the point that “asymmetry can be poor design”. Surely symmetric sides can also be a lazy way to ensure balance?

By: Dominic White

Dominic White — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:47:48 +0000

While I disagree with his overall verdict on Deus Ex, he has a point, at least. It’s like fifty mismatched and clunky elements that would make a terrible game by themselves, but (for most), they result in a magical formula when combined. It just didn’t click for him, though.

As for The Club, I liked it too. It’s a genuinely unique take on the genre.

There really needs to be less absolutism here. The ‘Your opinion is wrong, and that thing you like, you shouldn’t like because it’s bad’ mentality is astoundingly childish. It’s reminiscent of playground politics, rather than anything even approaching maturity.

By: Chaz

Chaz — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:44:52 +0000

I thought the voice command on the 360 was very good indeed, and I hope they carry the tech over into one of their tactical shooters like the R6 series. Apart from that I didn’t really like Endwar as it did feel rather dull and bland. So Total Annihilation still remains my favourite RTS and the only one I occasionaly still play from time to time.

Although not strictly an RTS, I’m very much looking forward to Battlestations: Pacific.

By: undead dolphin hacker

undead dolphin hacker — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:40:59 +0000

Preface: I love that Tom Chick champions under-appreciated games. He seems to have good taste and a good sense of what makes games “fun.”

But once in a blue moon his judgment hiccups pretty badly, and not in a “I disagree with him” sense, but more like a “what the fuck?” one. Two cases in point: the notorious case of missing the Deus Ex boat and his odd fandom for The (utterly mediocre) Club.

After all, asymmetry is inherently interesting. Zergs vs. Protoss, or Space Marines vs. the Eldar, or the Vinci vs. the Alin. Exciting stuff! But asymmetry is often a cheap and easy alternative to good design.

I’m struggling to understand why “inherently interesting” isn’t an example of “good design.” By “good design” he apparently means “good balance,” but I don’t know all that many people who play games for their balance.

…you can’t move the camera wherever you want. At any given moment, your view is bound to what your units can see.

“It has line of sight and fog of war!”

It works for console systems because of the elegance of the design.

I’m going to assume “it works for console systems” means “controlling the game on a console is easier than controlling other RTS games on a console.” But I can’t help but balk at “because of the elegance of the design.” With a bar set as low as Endwar’s, (let’s make five hard-counter units, three weak powers, a couple gameplay twists and some maps), “elegance” is not challenging to achieve.

Of course then he throws in the “gotcha” list at the end which… I don’t know, is supposed to guilt us into believing our problems with the game are all subjective and distract us from the lack of objective argument? It’s sloppy.

Tom’s not going to lose my respect anytime soon — if anything, these oddball and, well, wrong articles lend his writing character and realism. We’ve all got stupid, awful games that for some reason we really enjoyed, and he elocutes that universal gamer quirk well.

It’s just… most of the time we realize those games are stupid and awful.