By Jim Rossignol on April 7th, 2009 at 8:28 pm.
Where do you go after Conan The Barbarian? To a contemporary conspiratorial supernatural setting with a cute girl and a horrific monster, of course! “A world where magic is real and monsters roam…” Funcom’s next MMO is The Secret World, and it is revealed in a whirl of internet magic beyond the jump. Not revealed by us, of course, because we’re too wee, but by the all-seeing eye of GameTrailers. There’s two bits, so watch the first one first, as it’s got the beautiful Ragnar “Dreamfall” Tornquist talking about his creation. “Fight rising darkness!” Anything for you, Ragnar. “This is an MMORPG without classes, without levels, this is completely skill-based,” Ragnar, now you are teasing us! You naughty beast!
That looks fucking awesome.
Obligatory cinematic:
Looks intriguing.
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Here’s hoping it won’t crash and burn upon release like the other Funcom MMOs.
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Looks promising! Finally a skill based MMORPG, there has not been many major releases since Ultima Online that did this.
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Skill based characters sound pretty good, but nothing else jumped out at me. Hopefully they have some cool gameplay ideas they’ll reveal later.
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So it’s TF2?
Does an RPG “without levels” just mean that you have a bunch of other stats that increase over time? If not, how is this an RPG? Don’t tell me that it involves playing roles…
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Count down to someone judging TSW based purely on a certain previous game release…
In before those posts: There is such a thing as learning lessons from your mistakes and applying those lessons to the next piece of work. Funcom are too small to not learn from its mistakes.
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how did the monster get into her house
Also, sounds awesome, but anything can sound awesome if described right
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Stalking Tornquist and Walker on Twitter reveals information recently changed hands between them; Secret World interview? TLJ/Dreamfall nuggets? Or were they just cybering? Tell us dammit!
Also: excited for this!
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Man, the talkative video is too long. It has boobs? I will buy it. He is like overdoing it. It will be a MMORPG, and since is another funcom one, It will be sort-of-unplayable for like 4 years. And after these 4 years it will be lilke the best MMORPG, but with outdated graphics.
and now, a private email:
From: Tei
To: Funcom
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me
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@clovus
Wot? …wot? Wot?
Sorry for my Who-ish bout of surprise, but after quoting something that claims ‘without classes’, the last thing you want to go and say is ‘So it’s TF2?’. Since, yanno, TF2 is a purely class based game, gaming is rarely more class based than TF2.
To answer your question though, you should really play Ultima Online sometime, or… well, a huge per centage of PC single-player RPGs.
Basically, it works like this:
- You have a skill point pool, that caps out at say… 1,000.
- You have a number of skills that can rise in points, say… between 0 and 100.
- If you spend time cooking, your cooking skill goes up, after a long time spent cooking, you might have a cooking skill of 25.
This is an amazingly basic explanation of the system that Ultima Online had, but it should be enough, it has plenty of numbers, more than most level-based RPGs, I’d say.
Want a contemporary example of a skill-based, single-player RPG that RPS has even spoken about recently? See: Bloodlines.
There are loads of ‘em out there, wot, have you only been playing Japanese RPGs and MMOs, man?
So yes, looking forward to this.
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I am looking forward to this game a lot since the whole world of mythology integrated into the modern world is something that could be really, really awesome.
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aww the supwise of the teaser was ruined by the unnecessarily merged in clips from the teaser in the interview thing. :( shaaame. should’ve posted the trailer above the interview… not that i would have had the foresight to have implemented such a design choice :o
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Yeah, I saw the twitter exchange too, naughty stalker that I am (In shadow of chernobyl, or do I see clear skies, umm, yeah, less bad puns Larington, for the children)… I think thats just a friend talking to a friend rather than official business. Though if something came out of it I certainly wouldn’t complain. ;-)
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Hmm, I’m getting quite a tabletop game vibe from what he’s saying (specifically World of Darkness and Unknown Armies) and it makes me wonder how well that fluidity and breadth of action could be translated to an MMO. He’s hoping it’ll do well, though I’d prefer he finished his adventure games first :)
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Uhm, so let’s see here: modern day, cool, no elves, nice, uhm, katana wielding fire mages awesome, New York and London and Seoul, sweet !!!
I really hopes this turns out great, I loved TLJ and Dreamfall and this just sounds a lot like it’s going to be the next big thing!!! I’ve been waiting for a decent modern-day RPG since Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, man did that game ROCK!!!
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Well it certainly sounds intriguing…. but sounds almost too good to be true. Hope that they can deliver on all their promises!
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Also: “Dark days are coming” I get a sense that Ragnar LOVES that phrase, as in, wants its children, or something.
All of the The End is Nigh street speakers should be paid to switch their signs to read Dark Days are Coming. :-)
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Sounds very World of Darkness . I think the backlash from Aoc players may hurt this title quite a lot, i can see forums and comments logs being filled with venemous “you should fix Aoc before you start working on new games!!!1″ posts (though not on RPS hopefully).
For me the concept and skill based system sound pretty solid so i’ll keep an eye on it.
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Why an MMO? It has the Dreamfall aesthetic – make it singleplayer and adventure! They left us hanging at the end of Dreamfall, which means we deserve a proper sequel.
Don’t pull another Bioware Shattered Steel bait-and-switch.
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I wish this wasn’t an MMO. I’m a recovering WoW addict, and I intend to never return unless it’s a game that strays heavily away from the meticulous, number-focused standard.
My most fond memories of WoW was actually just exploring the world, but I compulsively came back for the stupid loot and minor upgrades to my characters: :(
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So why didn’t they learn from AO? ;)
AoC’s flaws at launch could have been prevented if they’d learned the lesson from AO. :)
Still, you’re right, we can’t judge TSW purely based on that. Maybe they *have* learned the lesson this time. And regardless of all the technical flaws that may or may not carry over from their previous games, there’s still a lot about TSW that sounds cool. But I really do wish they’d ditch their silly proprietary server technology. Other companies are capable of so much more, and many of them make their server technology available for licensing.
Anyway, I’m with DK. Funcom is better at singleplayer storytelling than they are at MMO’s. And TSW seems like a setting begging for a proper story-based game…
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The concept of modern day setting with mythical creatures and what boil down to super heroes has me interested already. Dependant on how the combat system and such actually turns out this is one of the few MMO ideas that might convince me to part with money.
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What am I missing? Why are we excited about an overly enthusiastic guy talking about ideas and a CGI trailer in which it is shown just HOW secret a world can be when you’re blowing up apartments (gas leak or swamp gas, eh?) and messing with an entire building’s electric grid? :P
Or is it still an elongated April 1st thing?
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I know what you mean Jalf, I think what bothers me is people posting things relating to AoC in a way thats irrational, as in they are so busy feeling mentally injured by their experiences with AoC that they can’t look beyond that.
I don’t really know enough about AO to know what lessons could’ve been applied to AoC, I’m kind of hoping that because the time between AoC and TSW are fairly short in game development terms (As opposed to say, Duke Nukem Forever or StarCraft 2 or Diablo 3, etc) the mistakes will be more fresh in the minds of the design team. One thing is clear, they are going for a much more community mindset by steering clear of a levelling system, a system which actually pushes friends away from eachother by making certain locations near unplayable when theres signficant level gaps (Even with mentor systems or whatever built in to try and adjust for that problem).
@Marcin: Well, for starters, in a world where everyone seems to want to copy World of Warcrafts levelling system, its nice to see an MMO developer actually saying “You know what, levelling systems can shove it, they stop the playerbase from getting straight into the action”. Then theres talk of a combat system thats more dynamic and fun instead of what amounts to (In my opinion) a lame button pressing contest which is essentially what most MMO combat systems tend to devolve into.
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When does she start vaulting building tops and wall rebound-kicking into baddies? lol. Anyway, if words were gameplay, he’d have me sold. But talk unfortunately is very cheap these days.
I’m curious how any pvp will play out .. assault rifle vs. sword realism/balance issues etc. This is for sure worth keeping an eye on.
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“This is an MMORPG without classes, without levels, this is completely skill-based
So it’s TF2?
Does an RPG “without levels” just mean that you have a bunch of other stats that increase over time? If not, how is this an RPG? Don’t tell me that it involves playing roles…”
Not really, but think EVE online’s skill system, which essentially is level-less too and skill-based. My guess is they’re copying that.
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Ragnar presents: Joss Whedons Buffy Online
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I was excited at the beginning of the first trailer, but that faded pretty quickly. It really sounds like just about every other MMO. I’ll keep an eye on to see how it goes, but I wouldn’t pre-order yet.
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Its difficult to be sure, but I’m suspecting theres something like a cross between Planetsides certification system and EVEs skill system. Looking forward to seeing tangible information that can be analysed properly.
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Really love the world concept, but it seems pretty much stolen through and through. There was an old pen and paper RPG “Kult” that had the same premise. But I guess there was that movie too… hmmmm whatsitsface? the Matrix? Some old greek fart probably had some nice ideas in that direction as well. Oh, and Destartes. Originality seems to be a matter of public mindshare.
Always a cool setting though.
Kult
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It’s very nice to see a new MMO that isn’t trying to be WoW. I love the opportunity to customize my character that skill-based progression offers, and setting the game in the modern world is a wonderful breath of fresh air. Definitely a game to watch.
As an aside, are there any MMOs outside of UO and Meridian 59 that use entirely skill-based progression?
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Dirk dehss ar comink.
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*sigh*
Descartes of course, not Destartes.
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@Larington: I think what frightens me most is that the core problem with Age of Conan was the same core problem with Anarchy Online. Both were tragically, embarrassingly broken with an agonizingly long repair schedule. Like Tei said, a lot of things eventually get fixed, but… geez, Anarchy Online still bugs (WAH-HEY) me.
I think a short dev time would be horrid. Rest assured, given the vocal objections of their former playerbase, Funcom is not gonna forget about Age of Conan’s mistakes. What they need more than anything is a little bit more thorough testing… not just to iron out your average everyday bugs, but also to make sure that these vaunted unique gameplay mechanics that everyone thrills over in the interviews and preview videos actually WORK.
Yes, I played a lot of AoC. Yes, I had a pretty big problem with the ineffectual stats, abominable performance, unfordable pit of player-killing, and the disappointing drought of upper-(and sometimes even mid-) level content. Yes, I canceled my account over it. Am I jaded about this new experience? Perhaps, but only because so many familiar things stick out at me.
You’re right, it is not necessarily fair to completely and immediately judge this game just because Funcom’s name is on it, and the last MMO Funcom made was under par. It IS, in my opinion, wise to be a little bit worried about yet another MMO from Funcom that leaps onto the public scene with talk of amazing graphics and astounding new gameplay mechanics, just like the last one.
Remember that MMOs are a significant investment over your average game both in time and ESPECIALLY in money. After buying the Collector’s Edition of Age of Conan and a bunch of game time, you bet I’m smarting after I really got to experience it. And you bet I’m casting a suspicious eye on this’un. I’m not passing judgment solely based on Age of Conan, but can you blame me for my sentiments? I’m not trying to be shortsighted and stubborn, but I am trying to be pragmatic after the hype ended up kicking me in the head last time.
It sure is pretty. Who knows? Maybe they’ll surprise me.
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is that one Crow?
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For the Xbox 360 and PC?
Hmm.
Well, if it was cross platform, that would be interesting.. but I’d hate it if they had to dumb down the PC side of the game.
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It’s a pity this is an MMO, it’d make a beautiful RPG or adventure game.
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I thought “skill-based” was talking about player skill until I read the comments, and realised how naive I was being.
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@Stupoider: Wasn’t AoC supposed to hit the 360 at some point too? I recall it being in the plans, but I never heard about it actually going down.
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Why is this an MMO? I mean, what’s the multiplayer part? Or is it just an anti-piracy thing?
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God, I hate The Longest Journey. Like, three good ideas in a sea of mediocrity. Dreamfall was about as bad.
WANT THIS! WANT! WANT WANT WANT WANT WANT WANT THIS!
Lovecraftian MMO set in modern world?
Why, why yes, please.
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I must confess, I was dissapointed by AoC myself to some degree, all I can really do is hope (Me = Optimist). One thing I’d love to know is how much development time AoC and TSW will have had prior to release of the game… If TSW has been in development for an extra year over AoC then I can feel that my hope isn’t misplaced… If the development time is about the same, well, I guess I can’t be overly confident. One of the saving graces of this site is that there doesn’t tend to be as much irrational posting as at some other sites, partly thats the reason why I love coming here so much.
As always, we’ve just gotta wait for the Beta & reviews and hope things don’t look horribly broke or malformed when these come around. You can be sure the beta testers will raise hell (Or raise the secret world, whichever is easier) if they are particularly dissatisfied with what they see… And word would get out FAST if that turned out to be the case.
Funcom/Ragnar will have to be very cautious about rolling out the Beta, considering the history with AoC, word of mouth is going to be a very powerful force – People looking to see if their judgements based on AoC are valid or not. It could get ugly.
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Sounds great! But a lot of terrible, broken games sounded great. So lets see some gameplay. :D
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From what I’ve read, a great deal of the game will focus more on exploring, on unraveling the story, and on puzzle solving, besides just combat. Which would really make it unlike most MMO games.
Now many online games have made this claim. But Ragnar’s strongsuit is storytelling, world creation, and characterization, so I believe him.
What I’m interested though is how you can tell a compelling story in an online game without instances, which supposedly TSW will have none of.
Anyways, I’m cautiously optimistic. This looks like a MMO that might actually hold my attention.
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Yeah, I don’t know whether I have the time to leap into an MMO. I have enough single-player games stacked up as it is without investing in a monthly-fee for a never-ending experience. Even if he gets rid of grind and sends free pizza to your door.
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So many amateur designers thing “no levels or classes, only skills” automatically means “excellent gameplay and no grinding and you can do anything you want.”
These are people who don’t remember Ultima Online.
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(Note that I am not calling the Funcom team amateurs, I am just saying that though classless/levelless is a potentially valid design decision, it is not the I Win button of game design.)
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FunCom? No go for me .. AoC was rough enough.
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The setting sounds MegaTen. I’ve always meant to play one of those through
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haha, Destartes. Nicely done.
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zombies, vampires and demons? Assault rifles and Shotguns and swords and magic?
It doesn’t sound very creative or cohesive, but I’ll wait and see what comes out the other end of the dev cycle.
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zombies, vampires and demons? Assault rifles and Shotguns and swords and magic?
It doesn’t sound very creative or cohesive, but I’ll wait and see what comes out the other end of the dev cycle.
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I’m an unashamed Ragnar Tornquist fan. He does atmosphere and story like no other (even if the ‘game’ isn’t always the strongest part). I will buy this. I will buy this so hard.
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I like how he spends about two minutes drumming it up and then point blankly says “the players will have to go out and kill monsters” with “special powers” like “assault rifles and shotguns.”
WELCOME TO A NEW ERA OF VIDEO GAMING, GENTLEMEN
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So, wait a second. When he says skill-based, does he mean that the RPG system will revolve entirely around putting points into different skills/levelling up skills by using them? Or does he mean it will depend entirely on player skill, as in, it’s an action game?
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Welcome young man, I have a mission for you. You have to kill 30 horrific monsters and bring me their ears or something. In return I’ll teach you the magical eyepoke ability which will decrease the chance of a monster hitting you by 15% for 7 seconds, does not stack with shotgun bash and pixie powder abilities.
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It’s funny was driving me nuts thinking the girl in this teaser looked familiar… then i realised she kind of looks like Abbey Brammell at times…
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“As an aside, are there any MMOs outside of UO and Meridian 59 that use entirely skill-based progression?
Darkfall. Recently released fantasy MMO based entirely around skills, has no classes and it largely focused around pvp (and a hardcore pvp at that). It’s a real bugger getting the game at the moment though, the shop still only opens sporadicly and I hear most copies sell out within minutes. Well that’s what happens when a small team in europe put together an MMO I suppose.
Still, I feel that people fawning over the fact that this Secret World game is skill based should be made aware of Darkfall, what with it being a skill based MMO that’s already out (if you can use the online shop at 5 pm GMT on the 9th of April that is).
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“Skill based” – My take on that was initially whats know as ‘twitch skills’. As in the same thing an FPS game is.
Also got half way through the comments and noones said it yet so:
ZOMG!? Consoles are *%&$! This game has been ruined by being dumbed down… [10 minutes passes] OMG you people are are retarted!!!!1!!pi
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Anyway on a more serious note – MMO on a console might mean it does rather well. I have a feeling its a wait and see.
Currently we have no details on how the game plays which is often the problem. The setting looks cool – reading Nightwatch at the moment so it chimes with that (quite a decent book, fast moving not the best but entertaining). However beyond that you can’t tell anything…
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Damn it Stupoider DID say it before me…
Well my faith in humanity is restored.
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The first thing that occured to me (but I’m not the first to say so here) is that it sounds a lot like the World of Darkness, you know that thing owned by White Wolf publishing. You know those guys owned by the EVE developers now, who are developing an MMO in that setting.
So two developers pretty much using the same setting for an MMO, except one owns a publishing company with a long history of publishing that sort of setting. HRM!
Whatever happened with that ‘Underworld’ movie law suit? It was well grounded I think, and if it got results then I should say it’s very likely we’ll see a lawsuit from CCP.
It’s a shame really, even though it’s a total ripoff I’d like to see what Funcom does with the concept. We can’t have too many cool modern-day supernatural MMOs, seeing as there’s presently no such thing on the market.
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So, it sounds like a World of Darkness-style setting. Quite a bit like that, in fact. But presented better. Don’t mean to diss Vampire: The Masquerade and its cousins and descendants or anything, but yeah, it looks like “World of Darkness, but better.”
Which sounds awesome.
EDIT: Curse you, Stromko.
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Conan didn’t inspire confidence in me, but..
Interest peaked.
Oh and speaking of modern day mmo’s where you can dress any way you want.. where’s APB?
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The thing is conan was a great game… for 20 levels. Then it was absolute balls. Given another year perhaps the whole game could have been like those 20 levels and we would be salivating over this as we will when the Blizz MMO gets announced properly.
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Ah, good show Ragnar.
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MMOSMG: Massively Multiplayer Online Smoothie-Making Game.
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Woop. Want.
Also, who knew I could gain special powers by just going out and buying a shotgun.
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Much as I love Ragnar, this really is just a video of him getting over-excited about things. Maybe he should team up with Mr Molyneux?
Even with that though, I got the distinct impression that this isn’t a game that will bring much new to the table. Even when he’s trying to sell the game on atmosphere, he spends a lot of time talking about killing monsters and shotguns. It sounds like just another MMO, only with a different setting. Speaking of which, it’s a really odd choice of gametype/setting to combine. So there’s this world that noone knows about, only every other person in the game DOES know about it? *eyebrow* As more than a few others have said, why an MMO? If the answer is “Because they have the potential to make giant mountains of money” (fair enough), then why this setting that purports to make the player unique when they quite clearly aren’t? If just seems strange.
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It’s easy to understand why Ragnar like to use the whole “dark days are coming” line a lot, I mean if I was named Ragnar I’d probably reference Ragnarok a lot myself.
Still, so clichéd, I’d respect it more if it was presented closer to the idea of the movie “Nightwatch”, where it’s more like a continuous battle that’s been going on for centuries rather than “before it was fine, now the bigbad comes, and we need you to go collect 10 demo-taur hooves…”.
Also, I’m gonna pimp a bit more Darkfall again, just google that shit and you’ll come up with the goods. I ain’t played it, I’ve followed it and it’s ticking some of the boxes that are making people touch themselves in this thread and in the post. Especially as it’s a skill based mmo AND a skill based mmo (pump stats into skills and you have to aim/time your attacks, good twitch skills will help a lot).
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Fucker should be working on Dreamfall Chapters, not this shit.
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He should be working on TLJ 3 not another MMO, please Funcom work on TLJ 3, Please.
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This describes exactly what I imagine CCPs WoD will be…
I’m watching this one carefully.
(also: cute asian chicks with burning tattoos and swords FTW!)
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I don’t see why people are comparing it with WoD so much… Both have real-world settings with supernatural elements, but the way they work is vastly different. The “Secret World” in TSW doesn’t exist within the real world but sort of in parallel to it. FC have spoken of portals, secret locations etc., which probably means that you have to set off from the safety of the real world to find “adventure” (in the old pulpy sense, like 1930s fiction). The “World of Darkness” otoh exists WITHIN the real world – you can’t get away from it just by jumping through the portal back to mundane reality. Plus, in CCP’s game you’ll most likely be playing a vampire or werewolf, so you’re a MEMBER of the “secret world”, not some jumped-up human with superpowers who invades it and treats it as a dungeon-crawl. In Funcom’s game, vampires are just mobs – in CCP’s, they’re PCs and NPCs too!
Personally, I find the WoD setting much more promising for an MMO. It does sound like the “secret world” of the title will be just a place you go into to kill mobs and get loot. I’m sure Tornquist will put a great overarching storyline to it, but, as people above have said, it could be just as compelling if it were a singleplayer game. The WoD game, however, is a world in itself, with its own little silly rules that make no sense in real-world terms, but allow CCP to build lots of interesting game mechanics into it. Stuff like not being able to use your powers in Masquerade locations (or suffering a penalty if you do), or faction-based PvP, or control of territory, all that’s stuff’s built into the lore, and if CCP take advantage of them properly it’ll make for a very interesting game where you’ll really be playing against other people (instead of just with them).
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I’ve always liked him, now it might get unhealthy. Yay skill based. If that means something even exactly the same as the way UO managed skills I’ll be happy. E.g. bored with being a mad meditating wizard, click meditation to drop, click polearm to rise. Start practising. Woosh a good fighter who can throw mad spells around but cannot recharge them quick enough except to use in emergencies. At last! I hope this works.
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Ragnar “Dreamfall” Tornquist = Hawt
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Some seem to consider AoC’s only sin being lack of polish and lying/lazy development. Which is ridiculous, as the game is flawed in so many ways right from the core design. It is to me an obviously compromised initial vision combined with a severe lack of touch and occasional blatant incompetence.
Compared with the very admirable Anarchy Online it was a leap back, but hopefully the spark still burns and i’ll assume the best.
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Don’t hold back on the your analysis of AoC’s core design faults there chief.
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@ The Fanciest of Pants, I’m also waiting for APB. That character creation demo was great.
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Not really an AoC thread is it. But the mine analysis might well consist of an instanced world, half-assed combat system, crap class design, being yet a classic grinder..
Meh, i know i sound like a prick, if you actually want my opinion, it’ll be done elswhere. Otherwise i’ll just conclude the game was found regretably lacking.
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@Larington: I’m not really dissing on the words, I’m dissing on the fact that there is nothing to show. You can *say* whatever you want, but until you got some gameplay trailers I’m not really all that interested, much less enthusiastic.
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constantine : the mmo ?
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Holy fucking shit that looks absolutely amazing
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Well from looking elsewhere, it looks like those who were thinking SKILL meant reflexes and so on are at least partly on the money, since he’s been talking about how the game’s aiming for an action-adventure vibe, with character advancement meaning becoming more versatile rather than more nails. Sounds quite interesting actually, provided they can manage to make interesting action-adventure environments out of the real-world hubs as well as the instanced mystery locations, and hire genuine cryptographers and puzzle designers to make the puzzle/investigation side of things a little bit more than match 3 or door/key puzzles. That’s really the most interesting part of the game – especially in an MMO, how they’re going to get around people begging for help because they’re stuck somewhere, and a constant flood of spoilers on the forums. Which would undermine the whole point of the thing
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Does this one still have a single-player mode (assuming it ever really had one to begin with)?
From Wikipedia: “Tørnquist assured that the game can also be played in single-player mode, should a player be uncomfortable or unable to play with a group. According to him, the game is story-driven and there will be an overarching linear plot, as well as numerous side-quests, ranging from investigation to sabotage and hunting, since diversity of the gameplay will be another central point.”
Is this still the case? If so, I might actually care about this. If not, then it’s just another MehMehOh, as far as I’m concerned.
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