Gas-Powered Games’ (with a little help from Stardock) Demigod enjoyed an unexpected early release yesterday, thanks to a silly snafu by Gamestop. Jim’s feverishly working on a full verdict on it to be posted in a few days’ time, but unfortunately it’s been held up by the release version suffering some pretty flaky netcode. It wouldn’t do to judge a game that’s almost entirely multiplayer only on the strength of its offline skirmishes, so while we wait and pray for an ultra-patch, Jim and Alec had a brief chat about their impressions so far… If they both seem a little surly, it’s because their clever brainwave to try and get the damn thing working in LAN mode over Hamachi had also just failed miserably…
Alec: So: Demigood or Demibad?
Jim: Hmm, well, I’ve spent the best part of the last hour looking at “connecting to” messages in Demigod multiplayer. I finally got into a lobby, and someone dropped. I could have cried
Alec: Aye, there are some ‘orrid netcode problems. But then it has been released early
Jim: Well it was due this week in the US even without the Gamestop randomo-release
Alec: I’m finding it’s a remarkably fun time played singleplayer, at least
Jim: This is one reason why the multiplayer problems are so frustrating: single-player has been a ball
Jim: Assassin or General?
Alec: Initially I was all about the Plague Dog Assassin, but I seem to have settled on the Oak general now
Jim: Yeah the Oak feels heroic to play
Alec: He seems a really good mix of crowd control and mega-biff. And about the closest analogue to the all-conquering Rook, in terms of being self-competent but also helping out the entire team
Jim: the sort of base-level presentation of everything from the menu onwards is really good
Alec: some of the UI and voicework falls a bit flat, I thought. Like that giant icon of your character, which doesn’t do anything. It’d be better to use all that wasted screen space for something like health bars for the other demigods on your team, or some comparison of your guy’s stats to whoever you’re fighting
Jim: yeah that’s a bit odd, a couple of the voices don’t ring true either
Alec: The Archer character is the worst for that. He sounds like an extra from a Saturday morning cartoon. I can’t stand playing as him, either. He needs more range, really.
Jim: I mean from a purely critical point of view, i want tear into the game for everything from the hands-off strategy to the lack of tutorial, and yet it’s really engaging, and beautifully /immediately/ playable. Going back to The Rook – icon of the game as a whole – it seems they missed a trick by only putting one giant god into the game. That said, i believe there are more gods coming as DLC
Alec: almost inevitably. Yes, it needs more giants and more building characters. I feel a bit too abstracted from the turrets when I’m playing as as any other Demigod. In fact, I wonder if those turrets are too key to the game generally. They’re really damaging and take a lot to pull down, which means a lot of the fight focuses around them – but they’re an element the player has essentially no control of
Jim: the towers are just a device of attrition aren’t they? They mean there can’t be an early rush – the game is essentially a slow back forth of massive assaults on the enemy front
Alec: True. It’s just not as much fun to spend five minutes hitting a tower as it is to tangle with a demigod. They’re necessary, but possibly a bit too fundamental
Jim: Yeah, you’re probably right – the architecture of the levels would have to be quite different without them. Anyway, we wanted to keep this brief, so any concluding thoughts?
Alec: As you say, there’s a lot of things to snipe at Demigod for, but crucially it works, it’s fast and it’s enormously entertaining. Though I’ve never played DOTA, its similarity to which is one of the key complaints
Jim: I was wondering about the DOTA thing. I mean – is the real issue that there’s nothing else to compare Demigod to? Much like any military mod for an FPS was compared to Counter-Strike a few years ago? Or perhaps, more accurately, any multiplayer FPS was compared to Counter-Strike…
Alec: Yes – if there was a commercial game along the lines of DOTA already, it wouldn’t be an issue. It’s the concept of a business profiting from something that’s free. And I can see why that rubs some people up the wrong way, but I think turning that great concept into something slicker is to be celebrated
Jim: Well some of the DOTA team are making a commercial game now. which makes for an interesting scrap between that and Demigod if/when it finally hits
Alec: Indeed – it’d be fascinating to hear what those guys think of Demigod. Hopefully, though, Demigod will open doors for other studios to take the concept further
Jim: yeah, absolutely – there’s no reason why the “one powerful being” strategy subgenre can’t expand enormously
Alec: I’d certainly rather someone rip off and riff off DOTA than get yet another C&C clone
Jim: Yeah, i mean people need to start copying things that haven’t been plagiarised properly
Alec: Historically, that’s led to stuff like Battlefield and Portal.
Jim: absolutely – commercialise those offbeat ideas
Alec: Anyway, hopefully we can play the damn multiplayer some time soon, as right now I have no idea if I’m any good at the game or not.
Jim: yeah, we’ll get some multiplayer under our belts and deliver a more comprehensive verdict
Alec: Okay. And your favourite Demigod?
Jim: Hmm. Actually I think I’ll go Oak too. The Rook is the standout idea, but he’s not quite right
Alec: He’s not quite powerful enough, is he? He was an odd choice to be the hybrid builder unit – really he should be all about the ultra-smash
Jim: I expected more of a tank
Alec: And on that note, shall we retreat back to our sadly solo Demigoddery?
Jim: I’ll keep trying on the multiplayer – you never know…
Related Stories:
Networking has to deal with NAT, that is a ugly hack, poorly programed routers and other anoyances, so is not easy. Or that is what I have read.
Released before finished?
Demo before purchase. See you in a few months.
No tutorial/bad documentation, hard to figure out how to play… sounds like they emulated DotA quite well then…
“I think the developers need to take pointers from the likes of Valve and lets say Blizzard, they always release almost buggless code and its always fun to play and even the major updates dont create a “bug wave”.”
I consider Left 4 Dead the best game of 2008 but it also had the most buggy matchmaking system of that year (and what about WoW or Diablo II the first few weeks huh? :) ). It took several months to ‘fix’ that (read: not waste half an hour teaming up with 7 other friends to find a decent server via the atrocious lobby…) and even now we still don’t have a standard server browser unless you activate it through the console. Did early reviews mention it? No, I don’t think so either.
It’s too bad about the Demigod network problems but it’s just out and to be expected. If most writers would have bothered to incorporate the same problems DoW II or Empire suffered right after release into their reviews then those games should have scored 65% as well (isn’t it, Gamespot?). Hell, many people couldn’t even start a new singleplayer campaign in DoW II for several days because it bugged out at the first in-game cutscene. That got fixed fast but even now the multiplayer is still riddled with all kinds of bugs (also those of the NAT negotiation and CTD kind, even in v1.2.1). Still loving it though.
And SupCom online is decent, GPGnet still has some bugs (patch your game first before you connect to it!) but it also has a very extensive feature list for a matchmaking service with the integrated map/mod Vault and Tournament scheduling thing (next to achievements, stat-tracking, clan and PM support). Something like Live looks like a ’solution’ from the Stone Age compared to it. The nill-ping problem isn’t so much of a deal-breaker anymore as well, just play Forged Alliance instead of vanilla though to get enough players (and the best experience). A balance patch for FA should come out ’soon’, after Demigod work has cooled down.
PC gaming, man….
I was weak. I gave in. I bought it.
A shouty man regularly declared things like “WRATHFUL!” and “GODLIKE!” for no discernable reason. Hundreds of little creatures ran all over the place looking impressive but they were annihilated by what appeared to be indestructible fixed defences without even managing to scare the paintwork. These same apparently feeble hordes shredded my mighty stone Rook with contempt. I clicked on a random structure, and it appeared to be a shop, so I bought two breastplates and three helmets to wear simultaneously. I levelled up every now and then, I’m not sure how or why. Occasionally shouty man would declare that one citadel or another was apparently stronger. I was baffled. I still won against the AI.
Then it slowly started to make sense.
By my third game I had worked it out. I got into the swing of things. I shepherded my fragile demigod carefully until he levelled up into a rampaging fortress-monster capable of slaughtering entire armies and flattening the previously terrifying defensive towers almost effortlessly. I levelled our citadel, I levelled my demigod carefully into different roles. I started to appreciate the game properly. I stayed up late and completed the tournament as Rook, enjoying it immensely.
Tonight I pick a different demigod to play, a General I think.
@Ivanhoeho:
“Some impressions from several skirmishes with my not-so-moral friends:”
All of your impressions are 180° removed from what is actually the case. You’ll see that first impressions lie after a few more games.
I understand that journalists feel the need to be fair on the game and the overall experience. But if they release a game where the basic functionality doesn’t actually work and half of the content is to be put in at some unspecified later data wouldn’t it be fair to deduct some points?
I just got really annoyed at l4d’s matchmaking system last night and it occurred to me that nobody had told me beforehand that it would be like this. They’re all like “it’s a great game” “cool maps” “zombies!” but I spent 30 minutes finding a game, then in the 4th act my internet connection went down and there was no way I’d ever find that game again, since none of the players where on my friends list. That kind of soul-destroying experience is what can turn a good game into a source of stress, and I really wish it would be pointed out more. A good game isn’t really a good game if you spend most your time fighting with it before you can actually start playing.
If I was giving points to Demigod, I would totally deduct.
“I understand that journalists feel the need to be fair on the game and the overall experience. But if they release a game where the basic functionality doesn’t actually work and half of the content is to be put in at some unspecified later data wouldn’t it be fair to deduct some points?”
You should really read Stardock’s CEO’s statement on this. He pretty eloquently describes why you can’t deduct points for this, because the average user will not have those problems (they’ll be fixed in a few days/weeks) yet the review is permanent.
Which is a reason why standard moment-in-time reviews with a numeral on the end aren’t such a great idea, and ongoing constantly update blogs are the future.
Okay then!
Warcraft 3 is a community, where people make maps, people use maps, test ideas, etc..
Demigod seems like these type of games where you have to wait for the dev’s to release a patch, to have One new map, for a total of 11.
In this sense, Warcraft 3 is more “web 2.0″ than Demigod.
If anyone is still checking here, there is a new patch fixing a few of the network issues. More feedback when you try to join a custom game telling you who can/cant connect and allowing the host to kick people who are failing to connect to others.
See you in game :)
@SwiftRanger
Agreed. For the networking though, why invent the wheel every time, there plenty of systems that work, use those.
“Which is a reason why standard moment-in-time reviews with a numeral on the end aren’t such a great idea, and ongoing constantly update blogs are the future.”
But it’s not something that’s being done now – ergo, you don’t deduct points in your permanent review for something that won’t be present for the majority of people that’ll read said review.
@Stromko I played with Unclean beast versus Oak, the lady on the lion thing, and the archer versus Me as the unclean beast, the vampire, and the lady with the plants :P Archer and Oak were no problem to maul to death but the lady on the lion was a huge problem, mainly even when I did start to kill her she’d run away and was a bit faster than my unclean beast. I upgraded his speed and damaged, gave him attack that lets him suck life from enemy for 2 seconds to delay her and maxed out his bestial frenzy or whatever it’s called and killed her over and over again the rest of the match, even standing right next to their home base she couldn’t stop me ^_^ So I don’t think things are unbalanced I just think you’re going about it the wrong way. Ranged attacks like that are probably best left for creeps while the things that upgrade damage/attack speed and stall/slow/debuff the enemies are good against enemy demi-gods. It even says in one of the tips bestial fury or whatever it is called is good for mauling enemy demi-gods. Also good for tearing down towers in a flash.
I have a vague idea of what a god is, but whats a demigod?
Whats half of ‘all powerful’? Half powerful? Sounds average. Or maybe there’s two gods that share the omnipotency on alternate days of the week.
I have to say that given the lack of tutorial, the manual is outrageously light. Here’s what it has to say about Citadels:
Why is upgrading key to victory? How do I do it? Wouldn’t that be useful information?
At the very end of the manual, it tells you a little bit more about what upgrading does for you – one whole sentence!
You know, even the most basic of tower defense FREE mods in war 3 had more gameplay than this game, also war3 has just as good graphics than this game without the unexplained slowdowns that cause Demigod to be unplayable
in fact the only advantage DG has over war3 mods is the zoom out feature, the “gods” are not even that original or interesting
Annnnnnnnnnnd here it is:
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/46194/102-000-Pirates-Overload-Demigods-Online-Infrastructure
Guess pirates really are a problem, huh stardock?
That is very sad.
Devils Advocate time: A demo would have potentially converted a sizable portion of that thievery into money for the devs.
Should also be noted that the Demigod network was not even remotely capable of handling that volume of customers even had they been paying ones, and further to that the in-game network code is a disgrace (judging from comments), and has been so since beta.
Piracy = bad etc, but no one is without sin in this scenario.
if they had allowed peer to peer multiplayer without having to log into their servers (like almost every game had a few years ago, a lot of games these days dont even allow lan play without a lot of tweaking here and there) im pretty sure the pirates would have chosen that method to play the game
its funny how the most criticized part of the game always ends up being “the pirate’s fault” and never the dev’s fault for not preparing for the most obvious of problems or crapping out the code
Well GameSpot has never been good and just about every complaint they have can be more aptly applied to Left4Dead.
Stardock don’t do demoless games, or at least don’t like not having demos. The reason why there isn’t one can be put down to the release date being forced to move forward. I expect the piracy is almost entirely people trying to try before they buy rather than playing without paying.
The release date wasn’t moved forward but by a few days right? I don’t think that would effect a demo release, there still isn’t one btw.
Sins of a Solar Empire did well even though there was a lot of pirating going on there, lets see how well Demigod can do. Sins constantly had people bitching about it in forums saying this isn’t balanced and this sucks and this and that and the other but it was still a success, lets see if the same is true with Demigod eh?
BTW A Demi God is a super human that is not a God but is not a mortal. A good example would be Hercules , he is really powerful but he’s not a God.
Strange news! I turned reverb off like suggested above and now I get no lag what so ever! Even with stuff turned all the way up, I guess my computer isn’t done for after all.
A quick heads-up. I’ve just added Demigod support to GameRanger, so you should be able to play online without problems until the servers are restored.
Like said, its a rip off from dota and the first commercial game in this genre, it only seems logical youd get to know dota before reviewing this game, if you didnt theres nothing that gives the wall of text any meaning…
to Sorendal: in the end of the myth, hercules becomes a god…
Reading and trusting this is about the same as asking a kid who only ever played age of empire if red alert is good
@Leon
Or maybe they have both been reviewers for a long enough time that they can recognize a good game and judge it on its own merits, without having first played some WC3 mod that loosely
resembles some of its gameplay elements.
You know what? I’m glad the Demigod community doesn’t yet resemble the one you are such a proud member of.
Demigod doesn’t “loosely” resemble DOTA, it is a LOT like it. The heros have been skills I supose but the items they buy and the creeps ect are mostly the same feeling.
After having played it for a while I have to say I like it a lot I just wish there were more demi-gods to choose from. I don’t have any demi-god that I really LIKE to play as, all the generals have weird minions that I don’t like, the assassins are okay, I think my favorite so far is the torch bearer if I had to choose one.
I like his fire skills quiet a bit and if you time them correctly with the usage of some of the special items (The cloak that lets you teleport and do 200 damage to everything) you can kill someone as they try to run away or use a recall scroll pretty easily. I’ve gotten up to highest kill streak level versus 3 normal AIs so I think I may be getting close to being ready to fight against real humans, probably not though lol.