Starcraft II has changed substantially since I first played it almost two years ago, and yet it remains fundamentally the same game. That provides some real insight into how Blizzard work: they have a kind of pure idea of what they’re aiming to achieve, and the development process is one of repeated iteration: UI after UI, art style after art style, each wave of changes bringing them closer to the perfect balance of what’s playable and what’s beautiful. Anyway, I expect we’ll be awash with fancy trailers in a couple of months time, but for now I’m enjoying the sort of back-to-basics game footage approach Blizzard are taking. Below the jump is a multiplayer battle report, with the designers commentating on a game being played between Blizzard employees. It’s revealing stuff.
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Lol! Rei Onryou, I was thinking the exact same thing about my limit!
I have no sympathy for people who complain about getting pwn3d in public online gaming. Either get better, find a private server, or get a group of friends with similar skill levels to play with.
A bunch of guys and I get together every week or so and have some really entertaining and fun (if not skilled) games of starcraft.
If anyone of us goes on bnet we typically get dominated.
People who play the game a lot are good GET OVER IT
@Jeremy: this is wrong, and I hate that gabe and tycho created it. Is like blaming alcohol for accident/rape/something awfull, ignoring your own will on the process. But I don’t blame 2 artist to think like that. Is normal for artist to have that mindset. Fortunally enough, is false, or something like Wikipedia will not exist.
Wow. I would watch more of this. I could never wrap my head around the ridiculous levels of Meta in Starcraft multiplayer, but watching this was awesome.
@Tei:
They’re not trying to make justifications for the way people behave online. They’re explaining the factors that contribute to this behaviour, and they’re absolutely correct in so doing.
I don’t see how playing an RTS game competitively could be any fun at all. I worked my way up to being almost decent at Age of Empires III, but every game requires so much mental and physical exertion that I’m pretty much exhausted by the end of it and because of that I only played like 2 games a month.
Contrast this with even “harcore” FPS games like Counter-Strike, which I can play at a competitive level while comfortably sitting back in my chair and pausing to sip a beer every once in a while.
For those of you that hate gametrailers (if those people still exist), now available on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSwqDPNS7dM
I can’t wait to play this! The first glimpses we got did little to get my appetite up, but watching the actual gameplay is awesome.
I do have to say I’m shocked that RPS put up something about Blizzard and there’s not a single WoW gayness comment. I guess the fanboys don’t play Starcraft anymore.
@Trollwind, those comments aren’t made anymore because they were right, and Blizzard corrected the art style. They’re slowly working their way towards the old gritty visuals.
@Trollwind
Well, you seem to have brought one of them out of the woodwork.
They really need to change the creep colour back to purpleish. Though I guess they’ve already tested that and concluded blackish is more awesomeish.
“you’re such a blizzrd fanboi”
My kids will be named Blizzard1, Blizzard2, Blizzard3, Blizzard4, Blizzard5, Blizzard6, Blizzard7 and Blizzard8.
Wow, that was fantastic! The new units add a ton to the game–those Nighthawks were instrumental in Kim’s victory. They mentioned their Hunter-Seekers were added just a few weeks ago–it might need balancing. Still, amazing game, control going back and forth.
The thing about multiplayer starcraft And wc3 that I enjoyed the most was the freegames where you played someone elses created map. I /never/ played a normal match because I just wasn’t fast enough. I’d get an entire army raiding my base when I didn’t even have 2 defenders yet ;P But when you’re playing a custom map you don’t always have to worry about that kind of thing. Like those awesome Starship troopers defence maps, the Lord of the Rings wars maps where you start off with X number of troops and get more every so often to fight epic battles with a few hero untis to help ya. Of course DOTA type maps were always fun. There were zombie survival maps, civilian maps where you lived in a city and had to do jobs and make money or be a drug dealer or the the police force and try to arrest the drug dealer ect. One where one of the players was the THING and everyone else had to try and figure out who it was while that player was murdering as many people as possible. Remember the paint ball matches where you get a ghost with 1 hp more or less and try to kill other people?
@Tei, BooleanBob has the right idea, it isn’t justification, it is just proof that people will say things or carry on conversations that they normally wouldn’t because of anonymity.. unless you know people that say “OMG WTFBBQ, THAT GAEM IF EFINNNG GEHY” in real life. In which case, you must find new friends :)
Um Tworak, I’m already naming my child Blizzard5.. so back off.
@Serondal
That’s what I’m most excited about in SC2. WC3 ate so many hours of my life with all the awesome kinds of maps, of which I think SWAT Aftermath was the most technically accomplished.Unfortunately the engine showed its limits so here’s hoping SC2’s will give birth to more amazing things.
I’m not good enough for MP, but I’ll probably get the terran game for the campaign. I was amused that right at the start the commentator goes “like all good starcraft maps, this map is mirrored” which seems like a boring (if perhaps effective design decision).
I gave up RTS games almost completely after I gave War3 an honest go but was still little more than rubbish online.
I mean, RTS games are TOUGH online. Likewise, I take a beating on SF4 every night since I got hooked on fighters. My years (12+) of playing FPS games online were not nearly this stressful.
But, you know, nobody ever says a person has to be good at every game. If you don’t want to take the time to be good then play something else.
Well, that killed my interest in SC2 entirely. It’s Starcraft with some new shiny stuff added. That’s what you’d expect from a sequel, but their talk about more mass battles and strategy actually had me interested for a while. Obviously they’re sticking with their cash cow of micromanagement, which doesn’t interest me in the slightest.
Well it makes it more fair and balanced if both teams have the same terrian resources ect. Though it would be interesting to have a 3 player free for all map where each starting position was diffrent based on race and required diffrent tactics to use but over all was still balanced.
To people who think starcraft is the pinacle of rts i say…
Coh coh coh coh coh coh chooo choooo!
Get aboard the coh train.
It seems most people who claim that RTSes are merely about who can click the fastest, who has the fastest reaction time, etc. have never played an RTS in multiplayer before.
CoH was ultimately forgettable. It has some good graphics but nothing really new to offer. I played it about 100 times then uninstalled it, so it is better than most but Starcraft has never been uninstalled from my computers since it was first installed when I bought it on release date way back when (I got the Protoss box hehe) Other than to upgrade or reinstall the comp and then it is okay gone for a second :P That having been said I’m not buying starcraft 2 or any new COH games for that matter. I’m stuck on Men of War, something honestly new and interesting in RTS gaming. Make me a Starcraft where I can aim the marines gun and get head shots I’ll start playing it.
BTW the units in the top picture of this post look almost exactly like the units from C&C 3. I can’t remember what the unit is caled off the top of my head, but they’re the ones that can be upgraded with teleporter packs and are used for assaulting. Looks almost 100% the same to me :P
“Make me a Starcraft where I can aim the marines gun and get head shots I’ll start playing it.” wow just wow the ability to control one unit and shoot its weapon isnt what rts games are about but meh each to their own.
It wasn’t what RTS games are about, until now :P I would be just as happy if each unit in the game had the same damage model you find in Men of War or Soliders. Where it is possible for them to BE head shot. I’m tired of all this wack wack, I do 10 damage to you, you do 8 damage to me trading blows shit ,it is so ancient but is still used. Blizzard if anyone could take Men of War’s style of game play and make it huge. Hit points don’t make sense any more, they were used to be symoblic for a persons ability to take damage, but now we have the technology to make real living breathing people on the battle field that die because someone did something that killed them, not just becaue they ran out of HPs. I know men of war still uses HPs to some degree , that’s why i’m saying it is up to blizzard or large companies to really fully explore this idea.
That’d make an interesting game mechinic, what is the difference between a space marine and a Zerg? well the marine has better armor but dies when that armor is pierced, the zerg has better good armor but it can take hit after hit because it’s internal organs are redundant and allow it to take a lot of damage before it stops fighting. not HPs damage but actually organs destroyed ! /rant off
Wow, I really surprised by how enjoyable that was.
@Tei: I agree with you about Penny Arcade’s little misrepresentation. Try this instead. First pie chart applies.
I see far more people complaining about trolls and fuckwads than actual trolls and fuckwads. Trolls and fuckwads are more memorable, obviously. And now I’ve said “fuckwads” 3 times. Now 4.
Couldn’t say anything about fuckwads (5) and Starcraft, though. The normal games got too competitive for me. Does Battle.net still have the huge fan base for wacky user created maps, though, because those were… fantaseximagic? Yeah, there were maps where you could play a stripped-down RPG, so that’s a good word for it. If Starcraft II has a similarly powerful map creator, then I’m in.
@MrFake
From the TL Q&A
“Q: Is it possible to create maps which wrap around? So that the right edge leads back onto the left, creating a spherical space?
A: Yes, it is currently possible to create a map in which units can move from one side to the other, though there isn’t coding provided yet that would allow units to shoot from one side to the other.
Q: We have heard many times that the map editor is capable of almost anything, but does this hold true for melee as well? Will you be able to implement map related features, such as different types of terrain (slowing, damage over time, energy regenerating, etc.), portals, or bridges and such, for ladder/melee maps?
A: Yes, players will be able to create special areas on the map as mentioned, though players will probably have to create them using invisible objects with those properties rather than have those properties be tied with the actual visual texture itself.”
Very nice commentary. Anyone has links to where I can download similar Battle Reports in HD? Or at least higher quality than the embed video…
This is nothing compared to Starcraft 2. Oh wait.
I don’t know what’s more entertaining: listening to that stellar gameplay commentary, or reading the deliciously snarky and clever quips by fellow RPS’ers about online RTS inanity. Sigh… sometimes I wish I had all the time in the world to learn how to play these games well, and then I remember my dog and sunshine and burritos. I almost think that releasing videos like this will scare away us “serious” gamers who are wary of multiplayer RTS ’cause of our inferiority complexes (and I’m not even thinking about the Koreans).
Man… I kind of want to be good at multiplayer RTSes. They look like fun. But I really don’t have the patience to learn to micro like that. I’m not sure I’m even really capable of it.
I’m surprised how fun that was to watch.
You can get the 678mb version using blizzard’s downloader app here: http://www.starcraft2.com/features/battlereports/2.xml
Anyway to dl for later viewing, would look but the site is slowing down my firefox to a crawl so cant get to the source.
I can’t count the amount of time I wasted on the original Starcraft when it first came out. In fact I spent more time on Starcraft, playing against my room-mate, then I did on studying when I was at Uni (probably why I was kicked out). Ah, fond memories…
If they can get the single-player right, I’ll be getting this. I loved the original game’s campaign plus Brood War’s. I’m rubbish at multiplayer so please Blizzard, remember to focus on the single-player ;)
Oh man, the Nighthawk is an amazing upgrade visually from what it was originally (I forget the name, but it looked like a flying, pronged crane).
@Thants: Thanks :)
I played Starcraft and the Broodwar expansion probably every day for about 3 years, and I can’t wait to get my hands on this game. I’m so glad to see that they’re not messing with the fundamentals and not trying to fix what isn’t broken, or “innovate” just for the sake of doing something different.
As far as it being stale, I can’t disagree more. There’s a reason that Starcraft is still so popular, and it’s because it doesn’t get old. Name one other RTS that is as popular as Starcraft more than 10 years after release. They clearly got the formula right the first time, so why mess with it. There are always new strategies and new tactics being utilized, and there is no one build order or tactic that is always effective. Starcraft is RTS sugar, it doesn’t get stale.
Severian
Sigh… sometimes I wish I had all the time in the world to learn how to play these games well, and then I remember my dog and sunshine and burritos. I almost think that releasing videos like this will scare away us “serious” gamers who are wary of multiplayer RTS ’cause of our inferiority complexes (and I’m not even thinking about the Koreans).
On another note, since when do “serious gamers” and “sunshine and burritos” belong in the same paragraph? I’m afraid I have bad news my friend. You are not hardcore ;).
I’m interested in the multiplayer, but for those who only care about single player, it does sound like things are going to be pretty interesting there too. Apparently there are going to be multiple missions/branches you can choose, and you can somehow choose/buy extra units/upgrades to start missions with. There’s also going to be some sort of adventure-game-like component where you control Raynor walking around his ship talking to people between missions.
Plus, at least some of the units from SC1 that aren’t in SC2’s multiplayer will show up in single player.
I am angry because the new Wolverine movie stars Wolverine. Why can it not be a Batman movie? I like Batman a lot more than Wolverine. Also, they have not changed Wolverine in the last ten years. He still has claws and regeneration. Why doesn’t he have a cape? Or is a woman.
I smolder with generic rage.
(last sentence copyright penny arcade)
Holy crap, this has got the snobs out on display. As far as I can see, any of the RTS’ I had previously thought were a good game, are in fact not. I’d be interested to see which RTS games you lot actually like.
And “This is nothing compared to Starcraft 2. Oh wait.” Heh, exactly.
@Okami: or, as Penny Arcade put it:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/09/04/
(Not the same strip as earlier in this thread).
This vid made me want to download Starcraft from my Blizzard account, which I barely use, and get playing again. I never really got the appeal–too twitchy–but seeing people who play halfway competent has inspired me.
Gah–and I have work to do, too…
Looks bloody brilliant.
Can’t wait for this. I’m long since bored of competitive WC3 (pretty much since DoTA killed the scene…) and C&C3 was only a mild distraction.
I don’t see why there’s so many people unwilling to learn how to play multiplayer. All it takes it a little patience and commitment.
Especially with the comparisons to FPS. Were you really topping the score boards on CS1.5 the first time you played it?
RTS is certainly more intimate and focused, I suppose that’s what people have a problem with. They can’t sit back and let others do the work for them, then get a share of the glory :p
Starcraft frustrates me so, but in spite of my experiences with the games that trailer made me wanna play SC2 really badly. So much focus on buildings and mechs for the Terran players, and the spawn rates for zergs seemed to be significantly increased so building up a massive army of zerglings is easier and faster. Also no 12 unit selection cap.
I’m afraid I’ll end up buying this and then not playing it because I suck horribly at it. D:
I will buy the damn game, for the damn singleplayer part.
CoH the pinnacle of the genre? Pff. Total Annihilation (albeit with custom AIs) was the pinnacle, and it’s been downhill ever since! If you like RTT pewpew and totally-free, I’d suggest checking out the The Spring Project. There are some nice 3D TA-inspired games built on the engine.
And Starcraft, CoH, WiC et all are RTS titles? Pff… Far be it from me to suggest that “moving specifically-selected units about small maps” is “tactics” and not “strategy”. Strategy is more grand a term than tactics in my mind, and its use to describe titles like Starcraft strikes me as a misappropriation.
disclaimer: m’tongue may be ever-so-slightly in cheek here
I dunno guys, is it not okay to not like the game but still respect it? I’ll repost a comment on this that i put over at giantbomb
I think something that made SC playable when it came out, was that massing units was an acceptable tradeoff for what was occationally utterly abysmal pathing and a sense of momentum that was really heavily tied into army size. To me, a tank being blocked from progress by a single infantry unit is hilarity itself, but this tile based abstraction is what apparently stands at the foundation of SC as a competitive sport, much like hitboxes and area control abstractions are par for Street Fighter 2 tourney play.
Back then, that was okay, but i stopped thinking of the units on the map as CHARACTERS very quickly once i joined a clan and played a lot of online. I just thought the game turned into numbercrunching. I remember a friend with a unit damage/hp/cost spreadsheet on his bedroom wall, and it was freaking me the fuck out. Some people just really get into that kind of game, but to me it removes the personality and turns it into squares bumping into one another on top of a bunch of other squares as numbers tick up and down. It’s just so depressing to me as a player.
WC3s big innovation of SC for me was lower unit cap and more “intimate” micro. Micro in SC felt like i needed to work out beforehand. WC3 let me concentrate on less. CoH does this as well, less units, more abilities, and while i think CoH is boring as hell, it really helps the game experience to have to actually care about each unit as a long term investment rather than just fodder. DoW2 takes this to an extreme, and i’m totally in love with that model of intense micro with fewer units. It simply allows for split second tactical plays that don’t feel artificial or contrived. SC2 looks like it is aiming to please SC players first and foremost, and i kind of worry about those dudes, because they’re hella weird in terms of what they want from the game experience.
I won’t buy it. But i’ll happily look at it from the distance and admire the game. It just won’t be that fun for me to play.