By John Walker on May 12th, 2009 at 9:45 pm.
Valve have spun the giant wheel of classes and this time it’s settled on the Sniper. He’s getting his update “in the coming days”. This means the familiar pattern will take place: over the next few days we’ll be told about his three weapon unlockable upgrades, new user-made maps that are going official, and a big pile of new achievements. Today’s announcement: a bow and arrow!
It seems that non-lethal arrows fired from The Huntsman will stick in players until they die, and headshots will not only take them out, but if near enough to a wall will hang them up like a painting. Hurrah! FEAR 2 is the last game I can think of that let you nail the enemies to the scenery, and blimey it was fun.
The Huntsman is hilariously explained by Valve thus:
“Any experienced sniper will tell you how irritating it is when your targets keep moving around. The question is how to stop these cheaters from wind-sprinting around like they own the place. And the answer is to pin them to a wall. How? With arrows! “Now, hold on,” you might be thinking. “I’m strong, but no one could throw an arrow that hard.” Introducing the Huntsman longbow, which solves that age-old throwing problem.
“Now, hold on,” you keep saying. “Aren’t bows and arrows primitive and harmless?” Why don’t you ask the dinosaurs? Except you can’t, because the cavemen bow and arrowed them to death. One headshot from the Huntsman can mean an instant crit, in addition to a bolt-riddled corpse hanging from a wall that’s gruesome and funny. And even if you don’t kill them, they’ll carry around a certain arrow-shaped something as a living testament to your awesome archery skills and their frankly unawesome dodging skills. Comes with 18 arrows and a one-second charge for full power shots.”
So, it’s time for the usual guessing what’s to come. Two more weapons? Binoculars? Laser guides?
12/05/2009 at 21:49 Chis says:
Crikey. I might actually go back to TF2 for this.
12/05/2009 at 21:51 gulag says:
Life, Art, etc.
http://spedr.com/5oawq
12/05/2009 at 21:52 Lambo says:
So far so unbelievably awesome. Anyone taking bets on whether the next one is a little camp you can set up so that your aim/reload/damage is better but you cant move while its up and it has a lengthy time to take it down?
Nah thats just me.
12/05/2009 at 22:00 shinygerbil says:
I think that TF2 has now jumped the shark.
Some people may argue that it happened earlier – but I’ve not really cared enough about previous updates to know.
This gerbil is sad.
edit: oh, and of course some people like the new stuff. I am, of course, stating my own opinion. I’m just saying some words, about a thing. That is all.
12/05/2009 at 22:04 ChampionHyena says:
No crossbow?
Valve, have you turned your back on the mighty mighty crossbow!?
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Nah, this looks fun. Anything that reminds me of F.E.A.R.’s HV Penetrator (as Mr. Walker kindly pointed out) is a bonus, no matter which class.
12/05/2009 at 22:06 Tums Ultra 1000 says:
I wonder which raid boss I’ll have to kill to get that phat lewt.
12/05/2009 at 22:07 Byron_Black says:
http://www.teamfortress.com/images/posts/peejar.jpg
Another unlockable?
12/05/2009 at 22:10 Mighty Florist says:
Didn’t Painkiller have a similar type scenery-sticking weapon? Except for tiny arrows, you shot the majority of a tree trunk?
12/05/2009 at 22:14 Meatloaf says:
I must say, that sounds like all manner of fun-times.
I really did love the HV Penetrator, and not just because of the name. This looks like a fitting comprimise.
12/05/2009 at 22:15 Turin Turambar says:
Now don’t put this shit behind a grind of achievements to unlock them. Give it to everybody and that’s it.
12/05/2009 at 22:15 Ben says:
Florist is correct. You got to stake people/demons to the walls with a huge sharpened log!! Which was pretty sweet.
Loving the Jarate (from Byron_black’s link) “tired of people telling you what you can and cannot collect from your own body and throw at others?” actually YES!
12/05/2009 at 22:20 Ryan says:
I HAVE BEEN SHOWN WHO IS THE BOSS
12/05/2009 at 22:20 Psychopomp says:
“I wonder which raid boss I’ll have to kill to get that phat lewt.”
Don’t make me poke your brain with my airplane fist.
12/05/2009 at 22:21 Shadowmancer says:
Thank god I have TF2 on the 360 as well so I can play a fair game instead of an fpsmmorpg.
12/05/2009 at 22:22 DeliriumWartner says:
I would love the melee to be a short range koala bear. You hold the cute little thing, run up to someone’s face and hurl the bear at ‘em! Take that, society!
That or booting people with your crocodile shoes.
Secondary weapon… tricky… A boomerang is the only thing I can think of. Maybe it hits people around corners, in skilled hands?
12/05/2009 at 22:29 Psychopomp says:
“Thank god I have TF2 on the 360 as well so I can play a fair game instead of an fpsmmorpg.”
You too.
12/05/2009 at 22:31 beef chief says:
i hope the achievments for this are better than the scouts.
12/05/2009 at 22:31 Nick says:
Aren’t there servers with no unlocks on them?
12/05/2009 at 22:33 Shadowmancer says:
“You too”
Yeah, recently brought the game surprised that there is actually a strong active TF2 community on the 360. Hook up me sometimes gt = Shadowmancer88
12/05/2009 at 22:36 Stupoider says:
@Nick, I believe there are! There are vanilla servers out there, and servers with other modes too. :D
12/05/2009 at 22:40 Leman says:
Oh great another stun lock which will take control away from me. Thanks Valve!
12/05/2009 at 22:46 Redford says:
I suck at sniper even more then I suck at scout, so I’m confident that even though this weapon fits my play style much better, I will never actually be able to use it. Thanks Valve!
12/05/2009 at 22:47 DarthInsinuate says:
Hmm, I like the idea of seeing half your team running around, riddled with arrows, sticking out from every orifice.
Comedy violence, ftw.
12/05/2009 at 22:47 superking208 says:
@Psychopomp
OH SHIT IT’S IAN MY FAVORITE INTERNET CELEBRITY, etc.
Anyway, don’t you play WoW?
(I know this guy IRL BTW LOL OMGWTFBBQ accidental TF2 reference is accidental yet relevant)
12/05/2009 at 22:50 Erlam says:
Oh good, more ways for people to not be able to move. Thumbs up valve :(
12/05/2009 at 22:51 Serondal says:
I don’t think it will stun lock you, it only pins you to the wall when it kills you so you’re not stunned, just dead :P
I believe the first game I ever played where you could nail people to the wall was Mesiah where you (As a tiny baby angel) could take over the body of a . . . mutant thingy which had a giant gun that shot pieces of metal at people. It would hit them and lift them off the ground and nail them to the wall regardless of how far away it was or if there was no wall it would just rocket them off into the sunset :P Was great fun cause you could continue to nail them to the wal after the first shot so you could make them pose ect. The cross bow in half life 2 is kinda like this but you gotta hit them just right to get them to stick to the wall .
12/05/2009 at 22:52 Stupoider says:
How do you mean, Erlam?
12/05/2009 at 22:58 armless says:
This will probably be another unlockable I wont get, as it takes forever to get achievements by chance and I get bored going round the maps aiming to get them by doing silly things that are in opposition to winning the match.
To all the people complaining though, for me it doesnt really affect the game that much that other people use unlockable weapons, its still balanced and fun. Would be nice to be able to get them easier though. Itd be great if for the medic they had an achievement for healing say 200k, then 500k then a million, and that would be 3 achievemnts just in that. As it stands the current weapons seem unattainable to me, but im a newb. On topic tho, I cant wait to see some scouts nailed to walls.
12/05/2009 at 23:05 Jujo says:
Diazapam – helps you aim better, at the cost of hurting your power gauge.
12/05/2009 at 23:05 Devan says:
That’s fantastic! I always think there should be more shafted ranged weapons in FPS games. The most fun I had in NOLF was sticking my enemies full of spears :D
12/05/2009 at 23:11 A:\Big.bat says:
GENIUS.
They can do no wrong.
12/05/2009 at 23:12 Nurdbot says:
I hope they make some crossbow skins for that.
12/05/2009 at 23:13 Mike says:
This definitely won’t be irritating.
12/05/2009 at 23:16 Russ says:
Snipers suck. Is there anything else you’re gonna die to as much in TF2 without every seeing them/having a chance to fight back? No. Spies STILL have to get close. Snipers can sit in spots out of reach to almost all classes (I prefer Pyro so all I have to save me is the Flare Gun) or exploit terrain to be impossible to see as they fire through slits made of two walls. You can’t see them, and they’re crouching on a ramp or some other thing giving them a tiny firing space which you still have to run through.
To balance Snipers, give them tracers like the Flare Gun does. It’s not hard to see a Flare flying from one place to the other.
@Gulag
I don’t read Boingboing. I may identify as liberal, but when someone yells “KILL DANGEROUS ANIMALS AND EAT THEM!” I’m like “YEAH LET’S EAT!” (there is arm pumping and manly weapon brandishing involved) So I don’t agree. In fact vegetarians are eating the rain forest. Blatant lie, but it’s appropriate to whining about killing things in Africa. If the only native there that’s gonna kill an elephant has claws, go ahead. Killing an elephant means a predator like a Lion gets a free meal even if you don’t take the corpse. Maybe locals will come by afterwards and sell the ivory. It’s Africa. Things rarely get wasted.
Bows are hard to draw in the first place. Those complaining about it having no skill obviously have never used one. The entire strength in the bow is the speed, and therefore the strength, in which it can fire its projectile. It takes a LOT of arm strength to pull the string of a hunting bow, much less the skill involved in hitting your target.
Given the chance, the elephant would have killed her in return for attacking it. It was a totally fair exchange, considering she had one shot. Which makes it a lot like the Sniper. Because it’s not actually fair. But she wasn’t using a gun, and no one is decrying the poaching hunts the well off did at the turn of the century. You know, that time where we get the term “Elephant Gun”?
I think the real crime there is her obsession with dumb bets.
12/05/2009 at 23:16 Stupoider says:
Hmm. I thought Valve was changing the way you unlock new weapons?
I’m sure I read it somewhere.
12/05/2009 at 23:17 Himself says:
old-as-Earth-itself Messiah allowed you to shoot people in the face with giant harpoon thus nailing them to walls from any distance.
12/05/2009 at 23:20 FunkyLlama says:
When it wasn’t too busy crashing.
12/05/2009 at 23:28 DarkNoghri says:
I’m also fairly certain they are changing the ‘unlock’ system. They said they were going to decouple the achievements, as I recall.
This also looks like dead people stick to the wall, but not living people. So no stun.
Didn’t Perfect Dark’s crossbow pin people to the wall? That was awesome. Maybe I’m thinking of TimeSplitters.
12/05/2009 at 23:29 DMJ says:
Aha. Time to practise with the Spy to take down the inevitable legions of Snipers which will materialise on release. When the Scout update came out I reaped a huge toll on the poor fools with my trusty Natascha.
12/05/2009 at 23:34 roBurky says:
Russ: I think your complaints are the reason for this weapon.
The arrow will presumably have some travel time rather than hitting instantly, and also fly in arc. Meaning it will be a lot harder to use at long range and against moving targets, encouraging the sniper to move closer.
12/05/2009 at 23:51 Rei Onryou says:
What roBurky said. I did hear on a podcast (either RPS or PCG) that they wanted the sniper to be more involved in killing people, rather than sitting on the sidelines and picking them off.
I haven’t played TF2 in a while, and wasn’t fussed by Scout update, but the Sniper bow sounds interesting. Should probably jump in again.
PS: Any bets that one of the announcements will be the new unlocking system or hats?
12/05/2009 at 23:55 Skree says:
If that jar of pee is real (which it looks to be, hosted on http://www.teamfortress.com) then that’s bad. Talks about “paralysed with embarrasment”. So that’s two stuns in one update. Go for 3 next time Valve? 4? I’m pretty worried they’re slowing ruining TF2 with every update…
12/05/2009 at 23:56 Stupoider says:
Skree, I believe you’ll find that the pee jar update was released on April 1st, 2009. :)
13/05/2009 at 00:00 Rich_P says:
I think that TF2 has now jumped the shark.
Agreed. I think the unlocks are spoiling the beauty of the original game, but I was saying that before the Scout update. TF2 was brilliant without snare spells and quasi MMO tomfoolery. I should seek out some no unlock servers (do they really exist?) one of these days.
If nothing else, Valve helped me kick my TF2 addiction, which kept me away from most other PC games for over a year :D
13/05/2009 at 00:07 The_B says:
Skree: The main reason people think the pee jar might not be real isn’t for the fact it’s hosted on TF2, but the fact it was released on April Fool’s day.
I am guessing that if there are achievements, one of them is going to involve nailing scouts with this, entitled ‘The Eye of A Needle’ perhaps?
13/05/2009 at 00:15 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
“OH NO THEY’VE RUINED TF2 AGAIN”
Pansies.
13/05/2009 at 00:15 FunkyLlama says:
After the disaster that was the scout update, you can’t blame people for being critical.
13/05/2009 at 00:17 sinister agent says:
Are we forgetting Aliens Vs Predator? The speargun was tremendous fun, particularly against the aliens. Shoot off one arm, and they care not. Shoot off another, and they still come at you all bitey like. Shoot off their face, however, and you’re sorted. Wussies.
I like bows in games, but they’re rarely done quite well enough to really be much fun.
13/05/2009 at 00:20 Senethro says:
I’m disappointed. I was hoping for a mid-range hitscan rifle, none of this projectile stuff. Leading targets is hard :<
13/05/2009 at 00:26 Y3k-Bug says:
@DMJ thats pretty impressive considering the Scout update broke Natasha, and it did zero slowdown.
13/05/2009 at 00:28 Larington says:
Everything is a disaster, no thing is perfect.
There are too many beholders for beauty to shine.
(These words just leapt into my head and seemed somehow appropriate, wish I was chanelling this into my uni work. lololol. I haven’t actually played TF2 since around release)
13/05/2009 at 00:30 Rich_P says:
Except when it was released, you were endlessly whining that grenades were removed, and that it looked too cartoony.
Heh, there are only a few people being critical in the thread. You’d be better off generalizing the reception as positive.
Just to be clear, I think the design and presentation of TF2 is brilliant. That’s why I spent over a year playing it almost nightly. The unlocks, though, have steered the game in a direction that I strongly dislike. Enough with the snare spells and sandwiches and sports drinks. Classic case of one more paint stroke spoiling the painting.
13/05/2009 at 00:30 Griffinheart says:
Every server will be 50% snipers…it’ll be Hell.
13/05/2009 at 00:33 pkt-zer0 says:
Quasi-MMO tomfoolery such as critical hits?
Anyway, I doubt the bow will have any sort of stun. Its advantage is that you can charge your shots much faster, the drawback being that you’ve got to get close. And that’s it.
How would a stun help with people feeling that they’re more engaged with the sniper in combat, a supposed goal of the unlock?
13/05/2009 at 00:43 EBass says:
Am I the only one who hates what Valve is doing to TF2? Whilst its laudable they continue to support their game for free I think a lot of the balance and fun has been destroyed. The sandman and natasha are just annoying.
13/05/2009 at 00:44 MD says:
Chis says:
Crikey. I might actually go back to TF2 for this.
Same here! Though, much as I hate being a whiner, if I have to spend hours ‘achieving’ things in order to get access, I probably won’t bother.
13/05/2009 at 00:46 MacBeth says:
Love this idea, might get me back to TF2 for a while, as I used to play Sniper quite a bit and also did a bit of archery Not In The Game.
Also, does no-one think/realise that they are not ‘driven away’ from the game by whatever direction it takes but simply lose the thrill of the early days/weeks/months and move on? I used to LOVE the game and play it for hours every night but I don’t blame the unlocks for why I no longer do that. After a while it just slipped down the list of compelling things to do… Left4Dead being a large part of that :)
13/05/2009 at 01:02 An Innocuous Coin says:
Every change has ruined the game. People hate change. ‘Cept for me, I’m loving the fact the game isn’t staying the same and thus getting old and stale and not profitable to its makers. :)
13/05/2009 at 01:03 Sam C. says:
@Rich_P (and others): What about the unlocks breaks the game for you? I think Valve’s done a pretty good job of keeping the unlocks from unbalancing the game or making them the end all, be all.
13/05/2009 at 01:08 A-Scale says:
WRONG SIR. WRONG.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=858424
13/05/2009 at 01:23 Psychopomp says:
@ Shadowmancer
No, I was saying I was going to poke you in the brain with my airplane fist.
13/05/2009 at 01:26 Oak says:
It’s not that they break the game, Sam, it’s that they add extraneous complications to a game whose key design principles were economy and approachability. If these new features came with a separate game, or were optional, I would be a lot more open to them. As it is, they’re just forming an unsightly superstructure on the original game.
13/05/2009 at 01:35 RodeoClown says:
I for one, welcome our new add-on overlords… (wait, not slashdot…)
New weapons/abilites are great – by keeping the unlockables locked, it ensures that new players CAN pick up the game and play it simply.
And grinding is unnecessary – I have all but the ubersaw from standard playing, and I’d pick that up if I played more medic.
Also – http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2499
Arrows don’t stun.
13/05/2009 at 01:49 syrion says:
Valve seems to dislike emergent gameplay possibilities but they are adding devcruft in piles. Odd.
13/05/2009 at 01:52 v.dog says:
Official notice: No stuns.
http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2499
13/05/2009 at 01:53 v.dog says:
Sorry , Rodeo. I didn’t see your post. :o
13/05/2009 at 01:58 MD says:
Also, does no-one think/realise that they are not ‘driven away’ from the game by whatever direction it takes but simply lose the thrill of the early days/weeks/months and move on? I used to LOVE the game and play it for hours every night but I don’t blame the unlocks for why I no longer do that. After a while it just slipped down the list of compelling things to do… Left4Dead being a large part of that :)
It’s a bit of both, I think. I certainly would have lost interest regardless of the updates, but I’m pretty sure that some of them hastened the process (not least because of the performance hits, but that’s not really relevant here).
I read a comment a while back to the effect that ‘CS is old hat now, because there is no reason to continue playing other than the self-contained fun of each individual round/match’. It wasn’t worded quite like that, but the author was open about the fact that what he/she liked in games was a meta-purpose, the feeling of working towards a goal and achieving something. That’s the direction TF2 took, and it’s the absolute anitithesis of why I play multiplayer games. Theoretically the fun of playing and the fun of gaining an artificial, ultimately hollow sense of achievement can co-exist in the one game, but in practice the latter seems to come at the expense of the former. Grind-based unlockable weapons are a good example of this, I think. The fun of actually playing is reduced by a focus on busywork and a de-levelling of the playing field.
As I said though, I would have eventually lost interest anyway. Perhaps the unlockables aren’t actually killing the fun, but simply papering over the fact that the core of the game lacks staying power.
13/05/2009 at 01:58 Jim says:
I hate the new stuff, it’s fucking terrible, what have they done? Those utter cants. I’ll never go on Facebook again! NEVER!!!
Err wait… what are we talking about?
13/05/2009 at 01:58 RodeoClown says:
@v.dog – no worries
@syrion – where do you get the impression that they dislike emergent gameplay? I’d image that’s why they are adding orthogonal choices to the game – not just gun1 v. gun2, but rather Uber vs Kritz, stun vs double-jump etc.
13/05/2009 at 02:02 Alexander Norris says:
Ahem.
http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2391
Pay close attention to the date.
13/05/2009 at 02:17 MD says:
where do you get the impression that they dislike emergent gameplay? I’d image that’s why they are adding orthogonal choices to the game – not just gun1 v. gun2, but rather Uber vs Kritz, stun vs double-jump etc.
I guess it depends on how you define ‘emergent gameplay’, but they certainly give the impression of wanting to tightly control the range of actions and interactions that are available to the player. That’s not to say that they don’t give players some level of choice and variety, but they do seem to guard against anything unintended sneaking into their games. When I think of ‘emergent gameplay’ I think of the possibilities created by a vast or continuous range of player actions, be this a result of the designers intentionally giving the players a huge amount of freedom, or simply bugs and oversights tearing the game wide open. Valve put up invisible walls all over the place, patch out anything that could conceivably be called an exploit, and in TF2 created a game so simple to play that they apparently needed to add random critical hits in order to introduce dynamism and unpredictability. In other games that comes about naturally due to a wide and balanced range of strategic choices, and/or multi-dimensional variation in player skill (movement, tactics, aim, prediction, etc.)
13/05/2009 at 02:22 RodeoClown says:
@MD – fair enough. By that definition, I’d say they like emergent gameplay, but only within given parameters.
Which is fair enough IMO – if you can win by teleporting your opponents out of the map, that might be fun for you, but you’ll soon run out of people to play against (exactly what Valve don’t want).
But I agree that our difference is with the definition.
Also – I think crits are awesome, they mean someone with ok (but not great) skill such as myself can win occasionally against those much better than I am. They will usually still win, but it is no longer guaranteed.
13/05/2009 at 02:32 MD says:
@RodeoClown: I think I made a few edits while you were replying, which probably make my post seem slightly bitter (I’m not, honest!) but also a bit more meaningful. I agree that unless I define emergent gameplay in my own, probably incorrect way, you are correct in saying that “they like emergent gameplay, but only within given parameters”. To me those parameters are overly narrow, but obviously that’s just a matter of opinion. I probably shouldn’t have mentioned exploits, becase clearly you’re right that things like ‘teleports to nowhere’ are rubbish. I was thinking along the lines of physics bugs like strafejumping, but since as far as I know nothing like that has popped up in TF2 (obviously strafe-jumping itself didn’t, because they knew about it in advance and chose not to include it), it was a pretty bad example. What I would like to see is, and I know people hate this word, but a bit more depth. Not necessarily in the sense of ‘let me pwn noobs harder’ (I’m actually not very good at games anyway), but in the sense of freedom and nuance combining to create a vast range of possibilities, of which at least quite a few are viable.
13/05/2009 at 02:42 MD says:
Sorry for double posting, but it looks like you edited in response to my edit. Regarding crits, I know that a lot of people like them, and I’m not trying to argue that they are objectively a bad thing — obviously if they make the game more fun for the majority of people (I don’t know whether or not this is true) then they have succeeded. They just run counter to what I like about multiplayer gaming, and seem to have been chosen as an alternative way of addressing the problem of skill gaps (I would prefer to let players manage this themselves by choosing who they want to play against, though I accept that this isn’t always easy in games with large team sizes), and the problem of stagnation/predictability (as I said earlier, I think there are better and more interesting ways of creating dynamic, varied gameplay).
I will stop now and get on with the essay I am supposed to be writing, I promise! Just wanted to explain myself a little more clearly.
13/05/2009 at 02:44 Persus-9 says:
Personally I quite like the extra weapons but then I came to TF2 late so the only updates since I came to the game has been the scout update. However while I can’t comment on whether they’ve made the game better or worse I can say that I found the game extremely accessable so it doesn’t look like they’ve ruined that.
It seems to have become a bit of accepted wisdom that the scout update was a disaster but I question that. Sure the couple of days after it dropped it was annoying as hell walking into a rain of baseball spam but that ended pretty quickly once people realised it isn’t actually that useful. Now people have got used to the new weapons it seems about 50/50 what people are choosing to use and that is of course the sweetspot for any update indicating that they haven’t altered the balence much if at all.
I think this new weapon sounds great, it sounds like it’ll achieve exactly what they set out to achieve and make close range snipering a more viable option while at the same time adding a cool sticking to walls effect. Good fun.
Personally I’m keeping my fingers crossed that they actually go through with the ultimate April fool’s day double bluff and make the Jarate real. To my mind it should act as a spy checker just like a pyro’s fire but without the damage.
@ MD (in response to your post quite a bit earlier): You know they’re doing away with unlockables soon, I’d be surprised if that doesn’t happen in this updates since they’ve laid the groundwork for it. The weapons won’t be tied to achievements anymore they’ll be random drops so no more grinding.
13/05/2009 at 03:03 RodeoClown says:
@MD – don’t worry, I was editing mine at the same time (and I saw yours edit while I was doing it) :)
Exploits are a different scenario I’d suggest – by definition they are emergent gameplay, but in effect they just ruin a good game :).
I guess they are more interested in emergent tactics, rather than new ways of playing altogether – so for instance now I can have a scout stun an ubered heavy, a pyro then blow him out of the medics uberstream and straight into my backstab. That wasn’t possible originally, but yeah, no remote-mine wall climbing or anything like that.
13/05/2009 at 03:04 jackflash says:
@shinygerbil
No, I agree with you. The game lost all appeal to me when people started setting up pyro servers to level up. It’s so unbalanced now because a lot of victory now hangs on what perks you have rather than whether you’re actually any good. It’s sad.
13/05/2009 at 03:04 wyrmsine says:
I’m not quite getting the “OMFG THEY”V RUIND TEH GAME” talk. Having played CS:S for a year and a half – man, that game is a freaking coma. A twitchy, epilectic coma, to be sure, but just so damn… stagnant. I play a lot less TF2 than I used to, to the point where I don’t have any Scout achievements (damn you, unlockables!!), but every release is infused with pure fun. It’s all in the same spirit of it’s early days, where it was the only MP FPS where both teams would break out dancing in the rare event of a mutual failure to win.
13/05/2009 at 03:13 lilgamefreek says:
At the whole emergent gameplay, remember things like medic boosting and uber-storing. I thought, though unintended, both added interesting ways for medics to play. To bad they were both patched out of the game.
As for the Huntsman. Gameplay wise it’s feasible and I trust valve, but visually it is just so incongruous with TF2. The art style revolves around a time period where technology was embraced and exploited. Everything points to a technological arms race spiraling out of control. A bow and arrows just seems like a step back. I started to break at around sandman, but a bow just does not fit TF2′s art style no matter what texture you put on it.
13/05/2009 at 03:15 MeestaNob! says:
Guys, just remember, you DONT HAVE to use unlockables to win/have fun.
Enjoy the game.
13/05/2009 at 03:28 shon says:
Fallout 3 had a weapon you could build that fired spikes. If you got a kill, it would nail the gib bit to a wall.
I once killed a raider in the wasteland and forgot about him till I came across his head pinned to a wall a good two minute walk from our fight. Good times.
A sniper pinning people with his bow while the other one headshots the pinned person is going to be awesome.
13/05/2009 at 03:37 RodeoClown says:
@shon – There’s no pinning except when they are dead.
13/05/2009 at 03:47 Ben Abraham says:
That’s not a knife, THIS is a knife, &tc.
13/05/2009 at 04:03 SuperNashwan says:
So it crits on head shots, has a charge time and pins enemies to the scenery when they die from a shot. Could they really not think of anything even mildly different in terms of actual gameplay mechanics for the sniper? I didn’t bother going back for the scout update and I doubt this one will be any different now.
13/05/2009 at 04:25 ForTheLulz says:
@MD – Crits aren’t used to narrow the skill gap, they’re to reward players on a good ‘run’ by accentuating it with extra good luck. If you’re playing better, you get more crits! See this post:
http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2221
13/05/2009 at 04:32 Vinraith says:
I can’t believe they’re giving snipers an update, as if there were a shortage of people playing that class. I think it’s time for a TF2 break, the game’s going to be unplayable for a couple of months.
13/05/2009 at 05:13 Erlam says:
(not picking a fight, just listing what I think)
“What about the unlocks breaks the game for you? I think Valve’s done a pretty good job of keeping the unlocks from unbalancing the game or making them the end all, be all.”
-The backburner is, 9 out of 10 times, a thousand times better than the default burner. The default ‘pushback’ thing has moderate uses, but most of the time 100% crits from behind is vastly superior.
-Healing medigun thing (I forget the name.) I’ve never seen anyone who has both unlocked use the default. I mean, come on, heal yourself over crit? Yes please.
-That damn medic melee weapon. Again I forget the name, but every time I see a medic kill someone, or they kill me, it’s that damn thing.
The others are debatable, but seriously, I never see people using the defaults over those three.
I really, really want them to take the scout stun out. It’s the only part of TF2 that I get absolutely infuriated at, because I’ll often get stunned for 5 seconds, and not even killed, so I just get to watch stuff happen. That isn’t why I play TF2.
(Oh, and if the Huntsman pins people WHEN they die, I love it. I think it’s amusing, and all I can think of is Turok in TF2. I like that mental image.)
13/05/2009 at 05:27 Polysynchronicity says:
@Erlam
I know a couple medics (myself included) who use the regular saw – because, let’s face it, most of the time when i’m in melee range, I want to kill the guy and GTFO as soon as I can, not dick around trying to hit four times with an absurdly slow saw.
13/05/2009 at 05:35 CannedLizard says:
They changed it, now it sucks.
13/05/2009 at 05:37 MD says:
ForTheLulz says: Crits aren’t used to narrow the skill gap, they’re to reward players on a good ‘run’ by accentuating it with extra good luck. If you’re playing better, you get more crits! See this post: http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2221
Critical hits don’t exist solely to narrow the skill gap — I do understand that. But it is definitely one of their effects.
An example regarding one-on-one confrontations: suppose there are two opposing players, A and B. A is better, and on a no-crit server would beat player B about 80% of the time. On a server with crits, let’s say A lands twice as many critical hits as B. (Which is probably rather generous, given that the critical hit chance varies from 2% to 10% based on damage dealt over the past twenty seconds — while this should still favour the better player in the long run, it certainly won’t do so consistently.) For the sake of simplicity let’s assume that we are talking about critical rockets, and they will guarantee a kill. Over 100 encounters on the no-crit server, A will obviously win roughly 80 to B’s roughly 20. On the server with crits on, A will land, say, 20 critical hits, to B’s 10. But of A’s 20 critical hits, 80% will come in encounters that he would have won regardless. Only 4 of the 20 will give him a ‘lucky’ win. Of B’s 10 critical hits, however, 8 will win him a fight he would otherwise have lost. So the final score on the crits-on server will be 76 – 24.
A simplified example with rather arbitrary numbers (though quite fair, I think — I certainly could have picked values that would have shown a greater levelling effect without being completely implausible), and one which only demonstrates a relatively small effect. But the principle does stand: in a confrontation between two players of unequal skill, the better player will rarely need crits to win, while the lesser player will rely on them for a large proportion of his kills. This will generally more than make up for the better player’s higher average crit chance.
As a sidenote though, I think that randomised damage for all shots is arguably a much bigger deal than critical hits, and often overlooked in this sort of discussion.
Persus-9 says: You know they’re doing away with unlockables soon, I’d be surprised if that doesn’t happen in this updates since they’ve laid the groundwork for it. The weapons won’t be tied to achievements anymore they’ll be random drops so no more grinding.
Interesting! I’d still much prefer for the new weapons to simply be made available to everyone from the start, but it could be fun to see how this new system plays out.
13/05/2009 at 05:45 Chalkster says:
@Erlam
I’m actually someone who refuses to use the backburner.
If you play pyro consistently, you tend to use the air blast to confuse and trap opponents, stall and break ubers, and reflect projectiles when you’re lucky.
The airblast is also great with the axestinguisher.
Set ‘em on fire, puff ‘em up, get out your axe and ‘stinguish ‘em.
Whack the fat ones twice. Aww yeah.
Defended a sentry nest on defense by deflecting stickies and rockets while another pyro airblasted them up, so the sentry could take them out by juggling.
Good times.
As for the medic?
I can’t protest to that, I don’t ever see syringe guns anymore, and the bonesaw to ubersaw ratio is about 4:1, I’d say.
I really should try out the bonesaw again. See the difference… yeah, I’ll do that.
13/05/2009 at 06:07 Frank says:
@Erlam: I usually use the backburner, but the other one is useful for knocking people off of points, etc. (alt-fire) I never use the kritzkrieg and don’t see it very often. And the fact that good players tend to use the unlocked medic saw does not indicate that it’s unbalanced. Also, I like the stuns; new gameplay ftw (even though the scout unlocks are too tedious for me to get).
@the rest: cry some more!
13/05/2009 at 06:35 Psychopomp says:
“victory now hangs on what perks you have rather than whether you’re actually any good. It’s sad.”
No.
It doesn’t.
13/05/2009 at 06:41 RodeoClown says:
I’m starting to see the Kritzkreig more and more as people realise that a kritz-ed soldier can very quickly demolish an entire team.
Send in an ubered heavy to soften them up, then a kritz-soldier to clean up the mess.
13/05/2009 at 06:53 sigma83 says:
Airburst has a wealth of defensive capabilities. It really does come down to what sort of pyro you are. You may be the type of pyro who loves that ambush style. So backburner for joo.
Kritz is a marvelous defensive tool as well. I’d say it’s better than uber for defense, although of course it’s also more dependant on your choice of uber target.
I’d go so far to say as the melee weapons are an overall upgrade, except sandman. Sandman is powerful yes, but the amount of mobility you lose is astounding.
13/05/2009 at 07:04 Soulless One says:
Did you not see the announcement after the sniper update page? The arrows DO NOT STUN. Repeat, the arrows DO NOT HAVE A STUN EFFECT. They only pin the ragdolls of the unfortunate fools you headshot to the wall.
13/05/2009 at 07:09 KP says:
Oooh, oooh! I had a stroke! -no… I had an IDEA! Nobody likes the bullshit Bonk-bat. If instead of freezing player in place it made them “dizzy” it could be hilarious. Like getting pepper sprayed in SWAT 4! The screen gets blurry, the controls reverse randomly, your view pitches and you stagger around. The end gameplay effect is similar but: 1) the target isn’t STATIONARY 2) player retains some control, reducing the shouting of “BULLSHIT!!1″ 3) unintented suicide is FUNNY.
What do you think? :)
13/05/2009 at 07:31 Alexander Norris says:
@Erlam – this isn’t a call-out so much as correcting what I perceive to be several factual inaccuracies: how often do you actually play TF2? Because from my end, two of those three propositions are incorrect.
Used to be true, but hasn’t been the case for a while. The pushback is incredibly useful, from effecting a close getaway (blast an enemy Pyro, then use your shotgun; or just push people off ledges and such) to disrupting the enemy (it can separate invulnerable Medics from their targets, for crying outloud), and as an added bonus, you get to deflect rockets and grenades away from your teammates. By contrast, the Backburner gives you some extra damage if you can attack from behind (with shitty hit detection, because it’s been buggered since Valve stealth-broke it on purpose in the beta).
This is the one that you’re actually right about. The unlockable needle gun is rather poorly thought out, considering there is very little reason to take the original. I’m not sure why they deviated from their policy to provide alternatives rather than buffs on this one.
Except that who uses which saw split about 50/50. The Ubersaw is great for dealing with isolated attackers behind your lines, where a team mate can step in to protect your ubercharge if the enemy seems to be getting the upper hand; for use in actual combat, the regular bonesaw is much better, since you might actually, y’know, kill the enemy before you die miserably.
Pretty much every unlock except the Blutsauger has been more or less equal to the original weapon once the enthusiasm from the updates has worn out, and again, apart from the Blutsauger, this is generally reflected by which weapon you use being entirely up to play-style.
13/05/2009 at 07:39 Psychopomp says:
I think it should be known, I have no idea why people are so up in arms about the Sandman. Even while it was everywhere, I only got hit by it *maybe* once every couple of matches; and currently, it’s been *weeks* since I even saw a scout use it.
Shit is easy to dodge, *you have an A and D button,* and *i* have trouble hitting stationary heavies.
13/05/2009 at 08:10 itsallcrap says:
TF2 updates are a glorious time whatever they add. The fact that everyone’s suddenly playing as one class means that you can run riot as the most effective ‘counter’ class. In this case, the spy.
13/05/2009 at 08:41 Rich_P says:
Having played CS:S for a year and a half – man, that game is a freaking coma. A twitchy, epilectic coma, to be sure, but just so damn… stagnant.
Yet CS:S has more players than TF2 and L4D. Hell, CS has more concurrent players than all the other popular FPS games combined. StarCraft is also “stale,” but people still play the hell out of it despite a lack of unlocks and achievements. To use a hyperbolic example: should you add new abilities to the pieces in chess to keep the game “fresh” and “interesting”?
When it comes to competitive online games, I want stability and balance and simplicity. TF2 was almost perfect at release. Not once did I think, “this game would be fun only if every class had more weapons and achievements and hats.” (For the record, I don’t mind sensible balance tweaks and new game modes.) So I guess I’m against unlocks based on what I think these games should be: more like a sporting match with well-defined rules and abilities than an MMO with a constant stream of new spells and gear to muck everything up.
I see two different philosophies w/ regards to TF2′s unlocks: do they add depth and variety to the game, or spoil the game’s balance? Why, for example, should a sniper be encouraged to get up close and personal? There are other classes for that.
13/05/2009 at 09:00 monchberter says:
Whinge whinge whinge.
Even the Scout’s Sandman has started to grow on me.
You knew updates were coming for next 18 months the moment the Medic update was announced. Valve have kept the balance. It seems some people just can’t deal with changes.
Deal with it.
13/05/2009 at 09:10 ManaTree says:
Woo, first comment here. Time to make some AIM. Maybe.
@lilgamefreek
“The art style revolves around a time period where technology was embraced and exploited. Everything points to a technological arms race spiraling out of control.”
I disagree. The Heavy’s KGB (and just fists), the Demoman’s beer bottle, the Scout’s bat, etc. Technology is clearly not the only thing they want to put out there.
@SuperNashwan
“Could they really not think of anything even mildly different in terms of actual gameplay mechanics for the sniper? I didn’t bother going back for the scout update and I doubt this one will be any different now.”
Maybe wait until the actual damn thing is released to see how it works? If it works like a bow, it’s going to be different, undoubtedly.
@Vinraith
“I can’t believe they’re giving snipers an update, as if there were a shortage of people playing that class. I think it’s time for a TF2 break, the game’s going to be unplayable for a couple of months.”
Really? Lately it seems (on dustbowl, at least, can’t say much about 2fort) that I’m usually the only sniper on my team. I’m a VERY avid sniper player too.
@Rich_P
“When it comes to competitive online games, I want stability and balance and simplicity. TF2 was almost perfect at release. Not once did I think, “this game would be fun only if every class had more weapons and achievements and hats.” (For the record, I don’t mind sensible balance tweaks and new game modes.) So I guess I’m against unlocks based on what I think these games should be: more like a sporting match with well-defined rules and abilities than an MMO with a constant stream of new spells and gear to muck everything up.
I see two different philosophies w/ regards to TF2’s unlocks: do they add depth and variety to the game, or spoil the game’s balance? Why, for example, should a sniper be encouraged to get up close and personal? There are other classes for that.”
I don’t this is a clash of philosophies as much as just imperfect implementation. It’s very very clear that Valve wants their games balanced, and have, in fact, balanced things in the past. I also think there is a fairly blurry line to cross for how much variety really mucks up a game. I think they’re well within their bounds to make the changes they’ve made (with the packs). And what if a sniper wants to be close and personal? I know, it sounds absurd, but I definitely would like to try a slice of that pie. And I’m not sure if it’s “up close and personal” as much as “closer than the rifle” because it’s a bow, not something like the Kukri.
13/05/2009 at 09:13 Aftershock says:
JUST TO CONFIRM. THE BOW DOES NOT HAVE ANY STUN OR SLOW EFFECTS. it will simply pin your dead body to a wall.
confirmed by robin walker.
13/05/2009 at 09:36 unique_identifier says:
I DELETED ALL MY ITEMS AND NOW I HAVE NO UEBERSAW
SAD
FACE
13/05/2009 at 09:56 Nimic says:
I’ve actually liked most updates, so as long as this doesn’t turn out anything like the disastrous scout update, I’ll be happy. I’m an avid sniper as well, so it should be fun racking up the kills on the noob-snipers who are trying to use the bow.
Originally I wasn’t very happy about these updates, and I’m still not happy with, for example, the scout update, the stun in particular. However, I find myself using the updates, and having fun with it. There’s almost nothing more dominating in any sever than a heavy/medic team who sit on Skype. With Kritzkrieg.
13/05/2009 at 10:00 Wedge says:
Anyone who thinks the Backburner is good is absolutely terrible at the game (which most Pyros are, and explains why so many have it). While the airblast actually has some great tactical uses that can make Pyro’s occasionally useful (particularly with stopping ubers), a backburner is pretty much worthless and I actively laugh at anyone that uses it.
Outside of the Medic update, which made the Blutsauger a much needed buff to play the class (the class is paper fragile without it, and basically REQUIRES you have 2 medics working together otherwise) none of the updates have been anywhere near “overpowered” and generally just amusing slightly deficient but potentially more fun side toys.
Also I’ve pretty much gotten over this update stuff, as I don’t play the game very seriously anymore. And to that point, I’ve actually come to LOVE the Sandman, as it’s been nerfed to the point where it’s worthless in the hands of an amateur, but can be hilarious and marginally effective when used properly.
Sure I can rack up more kills with the agility a double jump gives you (life saver dealing with explosives), but just having the occasional chance to stun a heavy then take down his medic is hilarious and totally worth it.
Sniper has always been at odds with my playstyle and skillset, so I love the potential for screwing around with this. When I play Sniper now I usually run around trying to use it as a noscope rifle and melee people for fun. This will probably work a lot better for that.
I also have a community and fair number of people I usually play with though, so maybe that effects how I feel about the game versus people that just play alone on random servers all the time.
13/05/2009 at 10:23 David McBride says:
“I am a leaf on the wind; watch how I ..” *thunk*
13/05/2009 at 10:31 TauQuebb says:
Does look like a fun unlock, but as most say, I dont get the time to grind the achivements, still havent unlocked all the heavy ones or scout.
13/05/2009 at 10:39 Kast says:
@David McBride – You make me sad :(
13/05/2009 at 10:41 jon_hill987 says:
@KP: Very good idea with the dizzy effect rather than a stun for the sandman. It would still be bad to get hit, but you would feel like you could do something about it.
13/05/2009 at 11:14 MonkeyMonster says:
Don’t worry McBride – I blew you back up into the air so you can float, float away right into the path of the sentry gun…
Backburner is for sneaksy hobbitses who hide. I for one am a chaos pyro and will run in with my trusty medic to cause carnage in their face. Nothing is more satisfying than kritz uber attacking the blues on dustbowl lvl3 – those tight tunnels means the crits flame just goes on and on and on and on :)
But really, bow and arrow’s! Cool.
13/05/2009 at 11:35 Stupoider says:
Sniper! Over the hi- *Thunk*
13/05/2009 at 11:51 clive dunn says:
i know this sounds awful but i would happily pay a small amount of money to unlock all the unlockables.
Dammit, i just don’t have the time to grind them all and it’s really putting me off playing the game because everyone i play with has these lovely interesting new weapons and suchlike. I used to love this game so much and now i feel slightly excluded. I’m sure valve must be considering some solution to this problem as i can’t be alone in feeling like this.
£5 to unlock everything would be fine by me; it’s only like paying for DLC and those people happy to grind will be happier because they’ve avoided the fee.
Basically i just want that fucking bow and arrow!
13/05/2009 at 12:11 Stupoider says:
Clive, just play the game. You’ll eventually unlock them.
13/05/2009 at 12:14 Senethro says:
If you google around a litttle you will find steam achievement unlocker programs. Alternatively, just find an achievements server and grind them there.
13/05/2009 at 12:16 RabidZombie says:
@Wedge – Is not skill a measure of adaptability? Surely this means your as shit as these backburner users.
The Backburner happens to be one of the best ways to clear a moving payload. Simply run in from behind flaming and they pretty much all die. It’s not a case one is better than the other. It’s a case of one is better in certain situations than the other. I happen to switch between the two depending on what’s going on.
13/05/2009 at 12:16 Deadjim says:
@wedge
The whole point of the back burner and all of the pyro pack was to stop people from just doing the whole W+Mounse button1 thing and using the pyro as its supposed to be an ambush class, the whole point is to come from behind…hopefully while shouting “suprise cockface!!” at the top of your voice.
13/05/2009 at 12:19 Stense says:
Looks groovy. But as I’m rubbish at playing Sniper, I doubt I’ll get to use it. Boohoo.
13/05/2009 at 12:22 Seniath says:
@Wedge
That’s funny, because I actively laugh at anyone who activley laughs at anyone based on their choices in a VIDEOGAME.
13/05/2009 at 13:01 Fuzzdad says:
Knowing some of the developers I can tell you they design these additional weapons and changes because they really enjoy playing games. The stuff they add to TF2 they add because it helps them enjoy the game even more…To them TF2 is a big ball of silly fun. Sure…they need to be mindful of sales and costs so unlockables, additions, half-price sales, etc., all help drive additional sales. Let’s be honest…gaming is not only supposed to be fun, but it needs to be profitable for a games company like Valve to prosper.
So, I believe the reason they make these changes is because what you see is the game Robin Walker and others want to play.
And since we know everyone has their own definition of fun, any change is going to illicit an emotional response. Here’s what I know…not a single change to this game has caused mass defections and those changes that did have what Valve decided was an adverse effect, were tweaked back out.
It’s a game…I’m happy Valve is still cranking out updates and additions this long after its release. And…anyone trying to compare player counts or whatnot to CS shouldn’t. CS is a global phenomenon and comparisons to it, like those made to WoW, can’t be used to judge a games success.
13/05/2009 at 13:11 KindredPhantom says:
Reminds me of the boltgun weapon in steamworks mod Dystopia. That gun impales enemies onto walls and other objects after death.
13/05/2009 at 13:38 PanamaHatBoy says:
So, wait – the arrows stay sticking out of them? Finally, a second class that can let other people know you;ve spotted a spy! Assuming they’re colour-coded, anyway…
13/05/2009 at 14:01 MonkeyMonster says:
Good point Mr Hat.
13/05/2009 at 14:27 clive dunn says:
@stupioder.
I would play the game but the time required to unlock everything doesn’t really compute when i have two young children and a very limited amount of time i can allocate to gaming. Grinding is just not an option and i’m still a bit annoyed that valve introduced grinding into a game that i loved to pieces.
13/05/2009 at 14:53 RodeoClown says:
@Clive, you don’t need to grind to play the game – the old weapons work just fine…
13/05/2009 at 15:21 jonfitt says:
Ooh shiny. As an archer I’m greatly looking forward to this.
Aside from the Scout update, all the updates have improved things in the end.
The reason I didn’t like the scout was the way it changed the Scout’s purpose. He went from evade and capture to kill everyone in annoying ways. He has the double capture rate and huge speed for this purpose. He was never offensively worrying (even in your uber-leet hands. Sorry.). The Bonk works as a sentry evader, but the Sandman is only ever used to stun and run in for a cheap point blank kill, rather than use the time to escape. So many scouts peddle around at the back slinging balls like snipers trying to get a stun, how is that working within a scout’s purpose?
Also, now if you catch a half decent scout running around near the back points he can 1v1 any class.
EDIT…Sorry. I completely didn’t mean this post to be a bitch-fest.
I am looking forward to this update and have faith Valve will delight and amuse. There.
13/05/2009 at 15:33 BooleanBob says:
As an aside, if the second day update goes live in the next few minutes, then they will be timing the updates in accordance with Australian Central Standard Time.
Seeing as the Sniper apparently hails from Australia’s Norther Territories (and not, as his accent suggests, some strange Home Counties/East End hybrid), this would be completely awesome.
/awaits disappointment
13/05/2009 at 15:46 BooleanBob says:
Aww.
13/05/2009 at 16:07 Psychopomp says:
@Senethro
You clearly don’t read the blog
http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2293
13/05/2009 at 16:18 cannon fodder says:
I really don’t understand why there has been all the hate regarding the unlockables – other than boring people disliking change and being unwilling to adapt.
Aside from the Blutsauger which , as pointed out above, provides a much needed increase to the medics survivability all the other unlocks do is increase the versatility of the classes they apply to with an increase in the diversity of tactics which can be used for those classes as a result.
Also new weapons/tactics add excitement/enjoyment to the game: my first thought when I saw the flare gun was “I want one of those”, the first “bonked” scout dodging my sentry guns fire was equally awesome in a “WTF was that?” sort of way, the sandvich still makes me chuckle now.
As for the bow, I predict a sudden increase in the number of waddling russian pincushions bellowing for their medic in the near future. I just hope that the sniper gets some new (or better applied) taunt audio the go with it as “thats what you get for standing still wanker” is wildly inappropriate if you’ve just headshotted a sticky-bomb jumping demoman out of the sky. Come to think of it an achievement for sniping explosive jumping opponents would be very cool.
13/05/2009 at 18:28 Vandelay says:
Around the time of the scout update, I was slowly becoming one of those people that moaned about what Valve were doing to TF2. However, I have since come to realise that I was too harsh.
None of the weapons, besides the already discussed Blutsauger and possibly the Axtinguisher*, are really an upgrade and each one has its uses at certain times. I wouldn’t really say that any of the unlocks are annoying either, except for when everybody is using them around the initial release of the updates. The Sandman was infuriating and the FAN (Fanny) wasn’t much better. But now that the use of these has balanced out it is much more bearable, and the reasons for them being included have become much clearer.
This will probably be the worst update, because servers full of snipers are going to be pretty dull. Being a pretty terrible sniper myself is just going to make things worse. Once things die down though, I’m sure I’ll be loving TF2 again.
* probably because the regular axe doesn’t have any use. The same could be said for the heavies fists and I expect it will apply to the soldiers shovel and demoman’s bottle replacements.
13/05/2009 at 20:07 subedii says:
What Vandalay said. Really guys, if you don’t care for having to get new weapons, then don’t do it. I haven’t, I’ve got maybe 1 unlock total and that’s it. Last time I jumped into a game I still managed to top the leader board with my heavy without so much as a Sandvich. Mysteriously, I don’t feel crippled by not having these additional weapons, because in general Valve have actually done a decent job of balancing them (the Blutsauger is maybe the one thing I’d like to see tweaked, or its default alternative).
Also, Sniper update’s going to be fun times for me, since not caring about unlocks, I’m probably going to go spy and get to work on teams of zoomed in stationary targets.
Did the same thing back when the Pyro update hit, I went soldier for a while (and I never use soldier). Poor guys didn’t stand a chance, and the few that kept trying for a compression blast soon learned that you can’t do that to a shotgun.
Update time is like open season if you play your cards right.
I don’t get it. Valve are trying to keep the game updated and fresh and managing to do a fairly good job of keeping it balanced for those updates, and people complain about how Valve should have just dumped the game out and then abandoned it? There’s a reason that it’s still selling and the multiplayer community is still strong years after release.
But then again, all this talk about maintaining the “purity” of the game reminds me of the angst people were giving Valve for cartoon graphics and removing grenades. Clearly Valve had no idea what they were doing and that’s why the franchise was destroyed two years ago instead of having the successful reboot people were crying for.
Oh wait…
13/05/2009 at 20:09 Eenteresting says:
Where the goddamn spy, pyro, medic meet the videos?
13/05/2009 at 20:24 subedii says:
Those take time to make, surprisingly. Grief, they weren’t even planned to be a series initially, Valve made that decision after the hugely popular reaction to the first one.
Valve are spending additional resources on something completely ancillary to work on the main game, and for maintaining what’s a pretty high quality of presentation, they’re also releasing the videos free of charge. So quit whining as if you’re owed anything.
13/05/2009 at 21:08 Chalkster says:
As an aside, the default syringe gun really does need a buff in order to be anything like worthwhile. Increased rate of fire might do it, or just slightly more damage.
It needs a graphical update too, if you ask me.
It’s just plain ugly.
Can’t wait to see more combat snipers.
On the very few occasions that I do, they are amazing and devastating. Running into battle doing head shot after head shot at medium range is… beautiful.
I could never do it.
@Eenteresting&subedii
I can’t help but wonder how they’re going to do the meet the pyro video.
Incomprehensible gibberish? Subtitles? Or will the hero finally be unmasked!?
13/05/2009 at 22:01 subedii says:
Personal vote is that it’ll be subtitles.
13/05/2009 at 22:25 Sparvy says:
Im hoping for some kind of sign language plus sounds.
13/05/2009 at 22:31 syrion says:
Regarding emergent gameplay: I think it’s embodied in the ability of people who love the game enough to play it for hours every day to differentiate themselves from the mass of casual players. In TFC, for example, it was almost impossible for someone who was just starting to kill someone who had put many hours into the game. TF2 is a lot more random, and VALVe seems to like that, but it means that the game is less rewarding. It’s fun to get better, to master a game. It’s not so fun if the reward for someone with a few hundred hours in soldier is that he gets randomly powerful rockets 2% more than someone who just started the game.
Valve’s devotion to the “rich get richer” design is also a little bit strange. On all of their CP maps, losing your fourth point is a death knell because the other team gets closer spawn rooms, faster spawn times, and faster caps than you. If Valve wants the team that’s already winning to get even more of an advantage, why even bother having the last cap point?
The funny thing about this is that Valve’s history with TF has not been spectacular. Their best TFC maps were re-creations of older maps (well, hunted). Their worst maps were either based on new gametypes (push) or betrayed a total lack of understanding of their own game (badlands, ravelin).
The only Valve map I can think of that people liked and voluntarily played towards the end of TFC’s lifespan was crossover2, outside the horrifyingly spammy “dustbowl 24/7″ servers.
13/05/2009 at 23:29 RodeoClown says:
@Syrion Valve’s devotion to the “rich get richer” design is also a little bit strange. On all of their CP maps, losing your fourth point is a death knell because the other team gets closer spawn rooms, faster spawn times, and faster caps than you. If Valve wants the team that’s already winning to get even more of an advantage, why even bother having the last cap point?
It means that once you get to the 4th point, generally the game will be over in a very short amount of time, meaning you don’t have the endless dragging out of the end-game.
BUT… it also allows for amazing comebacks – the stress on a defending team in those final moments is pretty high – and winning back from a half-captured final point is completely exhilarating – which, I imagine, is why they didn’t just have 3 points and be done with it.
13/05/2009 at 23:36 jalf says:
@syrion: Yeah, I agree. TFC elitists unite! :D
13/05/2009 at 23:46 ChampionHyena says:
Ever played on a Lazytown server? Or worse, an instant spawn Lazytown server? The map’s not designed to allow the winning team to spawn closer, and the result is that a single round goes on for HOURS. Can get a little tedious from time to time.
Re Everyone Else: VALVE UPDATES ITS GAMES TO SLIGHT YOU AND YOU ALONE BECAUSE IT HATES VIDEO GAMES AND YOU AND YOUR MOM
13/05/2009 at 23:48 Shadowmancer says:
@ ChampionHyena
Instant spawn Lazytown’s awesome it is winable it just takes time and the results always epic.
13/05/2009 at 23:58 Sam C. says:
To everyone that says you have to grind to get the unlocks – I’ve played as a Medic for ten hours, and I already have the Blutsauger. Personally, I wouldn’t consider that a grind. That’s the only unlockable that might be a “powerup”, but I think the main reason it feels that way is that crits you lose by taking it are infrequent enough that you don’t really miss them. I don’t believe medic is “unplayable” without it.
14/05/2009 at 01:15 syrion says:
@ChampionHyena: TF2 was not designed for instant spawns. That pretty much breaks the game, whatever map you’re on. Other than that, though, the ability to capture the final point comes down to the map design.
Besides, you could easily use one “advantage,” like spawn movement, to make it equitable. There’s no need to move spawns while also reducing spawn time and making the capture times ridiculously different. Remember that the winning team is probably also getting bonuses to their crit chances and that they can easily afford to sit back and build an uber. What’s the point of even trying to build a sentry, for example, when you know that the guys who have your 4th are just going to walk in with an uber and waste it in half a second?
Sure, it’s nice to come back against a stacked deck like this, but it’s also perfectly fine to have equality throughout the game. One of my most memorable comebacks was in a match on mulch_trench in TFC; my team was down 6-4 after about twenty minutes in the first half. We finally managed to exploit a weak soldier playing defense upstairs, and pulled out three caps in succession. The round ended 7-6. The next round, both teams were scoreless for a while until they capped two in succession due to an error on defense. It was 4-1 (10-8) with about two minutes to go until we managed to “train” two so close to the end that we actually capped a few hundredths of a second before the round ended. It went to overtime, where both teams got the flag out (first cap wins). The other team won by less than a tenth of a second.
I was shaking and sweating at the end, and I have never experienced anything like that in TF2 or L4D. The play experience feels too predictable and scripted.
14/05/2009 at 01:50 J.Edgar Hoover says:
All this ranting and raving about a game that will be defunct in a few short years. Just go back to the classics; Team Fortress Classic. Why is it better? You have grenades. And you actually need some skill to play it. That means no double jumping for scouts. No ubers. 10 years and it’s still going. Think about it.
14/05/2009 at 03:17 ChampionHyena says:
Whoops, your argument seems to have hit a snag.
14/05/2009 at 08:28 Walter says:
There aren’t “no unlock” servers. There is a lot of complaining on the Valve forums about this and Robin Walker (?) did say something about a competitive mode in a Shacknews interview a few days ago.
Currently “vanilla” servers are just server with default spawn times etc. No gameplay features removed from the updated TF2.
14/05/2009 at 09:02 Walter says:
Shack: Are there plans for any kind of “vanilla” game mode to filter out the new items for players that just want to play a quick match of the core game?
Robin Walker: Almost all the requests we’ve received in this area have come from competitive players. While we don’t think this update adds any new issues for competitive play, we are aware of the desire for leagues to control what their players are using, so we’re thinking about how we can help them do that. Still, we’re optimistic as ever. We believe that the more interesting & viable choices available to competitive players, the more depth there is for them to use to their advantage. It’d be a shame if they’re prevented from exploring the strategic possibilities that the new items add.
14/05/2009 at 11:15 itsallcrap says:
Hey, look at the update for today folks.
Payload race confirmed and two new arena maps.