Valve have spun the giant wheel of classes and this time it’s settled on the Sniper. He’s getting his update “in the coming days”. This means the familiar pattern will take place: over the next few days we’ll be told about his three weapon unlockable upgrades, new user-made maps that are going official, and a big pile of new achievements. Today’s announcement: a bow and arrow!
It seems that non-lethal arrows fired from The Huntsman will stick in players until they die, and headshots will not only take them out, but if near enough to a wall will hang them up like a painting. Hurrah! FEAR 2 is the last game I can think of that let you nail the enemies to the scenery, and blimey it was fun.
The Huntsman is hilariously explained by Valve thus:
“Any experienced sniper will tell you how irritating it is when your targets keep moving around. The question is how to stop these cheaters from wind-sprinting around like they own the place. And the answer is to pin them to a wall. How? With arrows! “Now, hold on,” you might be thinking. “I’m strong, but no one could throw an arrow that hard.” Introducing the Huntsman longbow, which solves that age-old throwing problem.
“Now, hold on,” you keep saying. “Aren’t bows and arrows primitive and harmless?” Why don’t you ask the dinosaurs? Except you can’t, because the cavemen bow and arrowed them to death. One headshot from the Huntsman can mean an instant crit, in addition to a bolt-riddled corpse hanging from a wall that’s gruesome and funny. And even if you don’t kill them, they’ll carry around a certain arrow-shaped something as a living testament to your awesome archery skills and their frankly unawesome dodging skills. Comes with 18 arrows and a one-second charge for full power shots.”
So, it’s time for the usual guessing what’s to come. Two more weapons? Binoculars? Laser guides?
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Having played CS:S for a year and a half – man, that game is a freaking coma. A twitchy, epilectic coma, to be sure, but just so damn… stagnant.
Yet CS:S has more players than TF2 and L4D. Hell, CS has more concurrent players than all the other popular FPS games combined. StarCraft is also “stale,” but people still play the hell out of it despite a lack of unlocks and achievements. To use a hyperbolic example: should you add new abilities to the pieces in chess to keep the game “fresh” and “interesting”?
When it comes to competitive online games, I want stability and balance and simplicity. TF2 was almost perfect at release. Not once did I think, “this game would be fun only if every class had more weapons and achievements and hats.” (For the record, I don’t mind sensible balance tweaks and new game modes.) So I guess I’m against unlocks based on what I think these games should be: more like a sporting match with well-defined rules and abilities than an MMO with a constant stream of new spells and gear to muck everything up.
I see two different philosophies w/ regards to TF2’s unlocks: do they add depth and variety to the game, or spoil the game’s balance? Why, for example, should a sniper be encouraged to get up close and personal? There are other classes for that.
Whinge whinge whinge.
Even the Scout’s Sandman has started to grow on me.
You knew updates were coming for next 18 months the moment the Medic update was announced. Valve have kept the balance. It seems some people just can’t deal with changes.
Deal with it.
Woo, first comment here. Time to make some AIM. Maybe.
@lilgamefreek
“The art style revolves around a time period where technology was embraced and exploited. Everything points to a technological arms race spiraling out of control.”
I disagree. The Heavy’s KGB (and just fists), the Demoman’s beer bottle, the Scout’s bat, etc. Technology is clearly not the only thing they want to put out there.
@SuperNashwan
“Could they really not think of anything even mildly different in terms of actual gameplay mechanics for the sniper? I didn’t bother going back for the scout update and I doubt this one will be any different now.”
Maybe wait until the actual damn thing is released to see how it works? If it works like a bow, it’s going to be different, undoubtedly.
@Vinraith
“I can’t believe they’re giving snipers an update, as if there were a shortage of people playing that class. I think it’s time for a TF2 break, the game’s going to be unplayable for a couple of months.”
Really? Lately it seems (on dustbowl, at least, can’t say much about 2fort) that I’m usually the only sniper on my team. I’m a VERY avid sniper player too.
@Rich_P
“When it comes to competitive online games, I want stability and balance and simplicity. TF2 was almost perfect at release. Not once did I think, “this game would be fun only if every class had more weapons and achievements and hats.” (For the record, I don’t mind sensible balance tweaks and new game modes.) So I guess I’m against unlocks based on what I think these games should be: more like a sporting match with well-defined rules and abilities than an MMO with a constant stream of new spells and gear to muck everything up.
I see two different philosophies w/ regards to TF2’s unlocks: do they add depth and variety to the game, or spoil the game’s balance? Why, for example, should a sniper be encouraged to get up close and personal? There are other classes for that.”
I don’t this is a clash of philosophies as much as just imperfect implementation. It’s very very clear that Valve wants their games balanced, and have, in fact, balanced things in the past. I also think there is a fairly blurry line to cross for how much variety really mucks up a game. I think they’re well within their bounds to make the changes they’ve made (with the packs). And what if a sniper wants to be close and personal? I know, it sounds absurd, but I definitely would like to try a slice of that pie. And I’m not sure if it’s “up close and personal” as much as “closer than the rifle” because it’s a bow, not something like the Kukri.
JUST TO CONFIRM. THE BOW DOES NOT HAVE ANY STUN OR SLOW EFFECTS. it will simply pin your dead body to a wall.
confirmed by robin walker.
I DELETED ALL MY ITEMS AND NOW I HAVE NO UEBERSAW
SAD
FACE
I’ve actually liked most updates, so as long as this doesn’t turn out anything like the disastrous scout update, I’ll be happy. I’m an avid sniper as well, so it should be fun racking up the kills on the noob-snipers who are trying to use the bow.
Originally I wasn’t very happy about these updates, and I’m still not happy with, for example, the scout update, the stun in particular. However, I find myself using the updates, and having fun with it. There’s almost nothing more dominating in any sever than a heavy/medic team who sit on Skype. With Kritzkrieg.
Anyone who thinks the Backburner is good is absolutely terrible at the game (which most Pyros are, and explains why so many have it). While the airblast actually has some great tactical uses that can make Pyro’s occasionally useful (particularly with stopping ubers), a backburner is pretty much worthless and I actively laugh at anyone that uses it.
Outside of the Medic update, which made the Blutsauger a much needed buff to play the class (the class is paper fragile without it, and basically REQUIRES you have 2 medics working together otherwise) none of the updates have been anywhere near “overpowered” and generally just amusing slightly deficient but potentially more fun side toys.
Also I’ve pretty much gotten over this update stuff, as I don’t play the game very seriously anymore. And to that point, I’ve actually come to LOVE the Sandman, as it’s been nerfed to the point where it’s worthless in the hands of an amateur, but can be hilarious and marginally effective when used properly.
Sure I can rack up more kills with the agility a double jump gives you (life saver dealing with explosives), but just having the occasional chance to stun a heavy then take down his medic is hilarious and totally worth it.
Sniper has always been at odds with my playstyle and skillset, so I love the potential for screwing around with this. When I play Sniper now I usually run around trying to use it as a noscope rifle and melee people for fun. This will probably work a lot better for that.
I also have a community and fair number of people I usually play with though, so maybe that effects how I feel about the game versus people that just play alone on random servers all the time.
“I am a leaf on the wind; watch how I ..” *thunk*
Does look like a fun unlock, but as most say, I dont get the time to grind the achivements, still havent unlocked all the heavy ones or scout.
@David McBride – You make me sad :(
@KP: Very good idea with the dizzy effect rather than a stun for the sandman. It would still be bad to get hit, but you would feel like you could do something about it.
Don’t worry McBride – I blew you back up into the air so you can float, float away right into the path of the sentry gun…
Backburner is for sneaksy hobbitses who hide. I for one am a chaos pyro and will run in with my trusty medic to cause carnage in their face. Nothing is more satisfying than kritz uber attacking the blues on dustbowl lvl3 – those tight tunnels means the crits flame just goes on and on and on and on :)
But really, bow and arrow’s! Cool.
Sniper! Over the hi- *Thunk*
i know this sounds awful but i would happily pay a small amount of money to unlock all the unlockables.
Dammit, i just don’t have the time to grind them all and it’s really putting me off playing the game because everyone i play with has these lovely interesting new weapons and suchlike. I used to love this game so much and now i feel slightly excluded. I’m sure valve must be considering some solution to this problem as i can’t be alone in feeling like this.
£5 to unlock everything would be fine by me; it’s only like paying for DLC and those people happy to grind will be happier because they’ve avoided the fee.
Basically i just want that fucking bow and arrow!
Clive, just play the game. You’ll eventually unlock them.
If you google around a litttle you will find steam achievement unlocker programs. Alternatively, just find an achievements server and grind them there.
@Wedge – Is not skill a measure of adaptability? Surely this means your as shit as these backburner users.
The Backburner happens to be one of the best ways to clear a moving payload. Simply run in from behind flaming and they pretty much all die. It’s not a case one is better than the other. It’s a case of one is better in certain situations than the other. I happen to switch between the two depending on what’s going on.
@wedge
The whole point of the back burner and all of the pyro pack was to stop people from just doing the whole W+Mounse button1 thing and using the pyro as its supposed to be an ambush class, the whole point is to come from behind…hopefully while shouting “suprise cockface!!” at the top of your voice.
Looks groovy. But as I’m rubbish at playing Sniper, I doubt I’ll get to use it. Boohoo.
@Wedge
That’s funny, because I actively laugh at anyone who activley laughs at anyone based on their choices in a VIDEOGAME.
Knowing some of the developers I can tell you they design these additional weapons and changes because they really enjoy playing games. The stuff they add to TF2 they add because it helps them enjoy the game even more…To them TF2 is a big ball of silly fun. Sure…they need to be mindful of sales and costs so unlockables, additions, half-price sales, etc., all help drive additional sales. Let’s be honest…gaming is not only supposed to be fun, but it needs to be profitable for a games company like Valve to prosper.
So, I believe the reason they make these changes is because what you see is the game Robin Walker and others want to play.
And since we know everyone has their own definition of fun, any change is going to illicit an emotional response. Here’s what I know…not a single change to this game has caused mass defections and those changes that did have what Valve decided was an adverse effect, were tweaked back out.
It’s a game…I’m happy Valve is still cranking out updates and additions this long after its release. And…anyone trying to compare player counts or whatnot to CS shouldn’t. CS is a global phenomenon and comparisons to it, like those made to WoW, can’t be used to judge a games success.
Reminds me of the boltgun weapon in steamworks mod Dystopia. That gun impales enemies onto walls and other objects after death.
So, wait – the arrows stay sticking out of them? Finally, a second class that can let other people know you;ve spotted a spy! Assuming they’re colour-coded, anyway…
Good point Mr Hat.
@stupioder.
I would play the game but the time required to unlock everything doesn’t really compute when i have two young children and a very limited amount of time i can allocate to gaming. Grinding is just not an option and i’m still a bit annoyed that valve introduced grinding into a game that i loved to pieces.
@Clive, you don’t need to grind to play the game – the old weapons work just fine…
Ooh shiny. As an archer I’m greatly looking forward to this.
Aside from the Scout update, all the updates have improved things in the end.
The reason I didn’t like the scout was the way it changed the Scout’s purpose. He went from evade and capture to kill everyone in annoying ways. He has the double capture rate and huge speed for this purpose. He was never offensively worrying (even in your uber-leet hands. Sorry.). The Bonk works as a sentry evader, but the Sandman is only ever used to stun and run in for a cheap point blank kill, rather than use the time to escape. So many scouts peddle around at the back slinging balls like snipers trying to get a stun, how is that working within a scout’s purpose?
Also, now if you catch a half decent scout running around near the back points he can 1v1 any class.
EDIT…Sorry. I completely didn’t mean this post to be a bitch-fest.
I am looking forward to this update and have faith Valve will delight and amuse. There.
As an aside, if the second day update goes live in the next few minutes, then they will be timing the updates in accordance with Australian Central Standard Time.
Seeing as the Sniper apparently hails from Australia’s Norther Territories (and not, as his accent suggests, some strange Home Counties/East End hybrid), this would be completely awesome.
/awaits disappointment
Aww.
@Senethro
You clearly don’t read the blog
http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2293
I really don’t understand why there has been all the hate regarding the unlockables – other than boring people disliking change and being unwilling to adapt.
Aside from the Blutsauger which , as pointed out above, provides a much needed increase to the medics survivability all the other unlocks do is increase the versatility of the classes they apply to with an increase in the diversity of tactics which can be used for those classes as a result.
Also new weapons/tactics add excitement/enjoyment to the game: my first thought when I saw the flare gun was “I want one of those”, the first “bonked” scout dodging my sentry guns fire was equally awesome in a “WTF was that?” sort of way, the sandvich still makes me chuckle now.
As for the bow, I predict a sudden increase in the number of waddling russian pincushions bellowing for their medic in the near future. I just hope that the sniper gets some new (or better applied) taunt audio the go with it as “thats what you get for standing still wanker” is wildly inappropriate if you’ve just headshotted a sticky-bomb jumping demoman out of the sky. Come to think of it an achievement for sniping explosive jumping opponents would be very cool.
Around the time of the scout update, I was slowly becoming one of those people that moaned about what Valve were doing to TF2. However, I have since come to realise that I was too harsh.
None of the weapons, besides the already discussed Blutsauger and possibly the Axtinguisher*, are really an upgrade and each one has its uses at certain times. I wouldn’t really say that any of the unlocks are annoying either, except for when everybody is using them around the initial release of the updates. The Sandman was infuriating and the FAN (Fanny) wasn’t much better. But now that the use of these has balanced out it is much more bearable, and the reasons for them being included have become much clearer.
This will probably be the worst update, because servers full of snipers are going to be pretty dull. Being a pretty terrible sniper myself is just going to make things worse. Once things die down though, I’m sure I’ll be loving TF2 again.
* probably because the regular axe doesn’t have any use. The same could be said for the heavies fists and I expect it will apply to the soldiers shovel and demoman’s bottle replacements.
What Vandalay said. Really guys, if you don’t care for having to get new weapons, then don’t do it. I haven’t, I’ve got maybe 1 unlock total and that’s it. Last time I jumped into a game I still managed to top the leader board with my heavy without so much as a Sandvich. Mysteriously, I don’t feel crippled by not having these additional weapons, because in general Valve have actually done a decent job of balancing them (the Blutsauger is maybe the one thing I’d like to see tweaked, or its default alternative).
Also, Sniper update’s going to be fun times for me, since not caring about unlocks, I’m probably going to go spy and get to work on teams of zoomed in stationary targets.
Did the same thing back when the Pyro update hit, I went soldier for a while (and I never use soldier). Poor guys didn’t stand a chance, and the few that kept trying for a compression blast soon learned that you can’t do that to a shotgun.
Update time is like open season if you play your cards right.
I don’t get it. Valve are trying to keep the game updated and fresh and managing to do a fairly good job of keeping it balanced for those updates, and people complain about how Valve should have just dumped the game out and then abandoned it? There’s a reason that it’s still selling and the multiplayer community is still strong years after release.
But then again, all this talk about maintaining the “purity” of the game reminds me of the angst people were giving Valve for cartoon graphics and removing grenades. Clearly Valve had no idea what they were doing and that’s why the franchise was destroyed two years ago instead of having the successful reboot people were crying for.
Oh wait…
Where the goddamn spy, pyro, medic meet the videos?
Those take time to make, surprisingly. Grief, they weren’t even planned to be a series initially, Valve made that decision after the hugely popular reaction to the first one.
Valve are spending additional resources on something completely ancillary to work on the main game, and for maintaining what’s a pretty high quality of presentation, they’re also releasing the videos free of charge. So quit whining as if you’re owed anything.
As an aside, the default syringe gun really does need a buff in order to be anything like worthwhile. Increased rate of fire might do it, or just slightly more damage.
It needs a graphical update too, if you ask me.
It’s just plain ugly.
Can’t wait to see more combat snipers.
On the very few occasions that I do, they are amazing and devastating. Running into battle doing head shot after head shot at medium range is… beautiful.
I could never do it.
@Eenteresting&subedii
I can’t help but wonder how they’re going to do the meet the pyro video.
Incomprehensible gibberish? Subtitles? Or will the hero finally be unmasked!?
Personal vote is that it’ll be subtitles.
Im hoping for some kind of sign language plus sounds.
Regarding emergent gameplay: I think it’s embodied in the ability of people who love the game enough to play it for hours every day to differentiate themselves from the mass of casual players. In TFC, for example, it was almost impossible for someone who was just starting to kill someone who had put many hours into the game. TF2 is a lot more random, and VALVe seems to like that, but it means that the game is less rewarding. It’s fun to get better, to master a game. It’s not so fun if the reward for someone with a few hundred hours in soldier is that he gets randomly powerful rockets 2% more than someone who just started the game.
Valve’s devotion to the “rich get richer” design is also a little bit strange. On all of their CP maps, losing your fourth point is a death knell because the other team gets closer spawn rooms, faster spawn times, and faster caps than you. If Valve wants the team that’s already winning to get even more of an advantage, why even bother having the last cap point?
The funny thing about this is that Valve’s history with TF has not been spectacular. Their best TFC maps were re-creations of older maps (well, hunted). Their worst maps were either based on new gametypes (push) or betrayed a total lack of understanding of their own game (badlands, ravelin).
The only Valve map I can think of that people liked and voluntarily played towards the end of TFC’s lifespan was crossover2, outside the horrifyingly spammy “dustbowl 24/7″ servers.
@Syrion Valve’s devotion to the “rich get richer” design is also a little bit strange. On all of their CP maps, losing your fourth point is a death knell because the other team gets closer spawn rooms, faster spawn times, and faster caps than you. If Valve wants the team that’s already winning to get even more of an advantage, why even bother having the last cap point?
It means that once you get to the 4th point, generally the game will be over in a very short amount of time, meaning you don’t have the endless dragging out of the end-game.
BUT… it also allows for amazing comebacks – the stress on a defending team in those final moments is pretty high – and winning back from a half-captured final point is completely exhilarating – which, I imagine, is why they didn’t just have 3 points and be done with it.
@syrion: Yeah, I agree. TFC elitists unite! :D
Ever played on a Lazytown server? Or worse, an instant spawn Lazytown server? The map’s not designed to allow the winning team to spawn closer, and the result is that a single round goes on for HOURS. Can get a little tedious from time to time.
Re Everyone Else: VALVE UPDATES ITS GAMES TO SLIGHT YOU AND YOU ALONE BECAUSE IT HATES VIDEO GAMES AND YOU AND YOUR MOM
@ ChampionHyena
Instant spawn Lazytown’s awesome it is winable it just takes time and the results always epic.
To everyone that says you have to grind to get the unlocks – I’ve played as a Medic for ten hours, and I already have the Blutsauger. Personally, I wouldn’t consider that a grind. That’s the only unlockable that might be a “powerup”, but I think the main reason it feels that way is that crits you lose by taking it are infrequent enough that you don’t really miss them. I don’t believe medic is “unplayable” without it.
@ChampionHyena: TF2 was not designed for instant spawns. That pretty much breaks the game, whatever map you’re on. Other than that, though, the ability to capture the final point comes down to the map design.
Besides, you could easily use one “advantage,” like spawn movement, to make it equitable. There’s no need to move spawns while also reducing spawn time and making the capture times ridiculously different. Remember that the winning team is probably also getting bonuses to their crit chances and that they can easily afford to sit back and build an uber. What’s the point of even trying to build a sentry, for example, when you know that the guys who have your 4th are just going to walk in with an uber and waste it in half a second?
Sure, it’s nice to come back against a stacked deck like this, but it’s also perfectly fine to have equality throughout the game. One of my most memorable comebacks was in a match on mulch_trench in TFC; my team was down 6-4 after about twenty minutes in the first half. We finally managed to exploit a weak soldier playing defense upstairs, and pulled out three caps in succession. The round ended 7-6. The next round, both teams were scoreless for a while until they capped two in succession due to an error on defense. It was 4-1 (10-8) with about two minutes to go until we managed to “train” two so close to the end that we actually capped a few hundredths of a second before the round ended. It went to overtime, where both teams got the flag out (first cap wins). The other team won by less than a tenth of a second.
I was shaking and sweating at the end, and I have never experienced anything like that in TF2 or L4D. The play experience feels too predictable and scripted.
All this ranting and raving about a game that will be defunct in a few short years. Just go back to the classics; Team Fortress Classic. Why is it better? You have grenades. And you actually need some skill to play it. That means no double jumping for scouts. No ubers. 10 years and it’s still going. Think about it.
Whoops, your argument seems to have hit a snag.
There aren’t “no unlock” servers. There is a lot of complaining on the Valve forums about this and Robin Walker (?) did say something about a competitive mode in a Shacknews interview a few days ago.
Currently “vanilla” servers are just server with default spawn times etc. No gameplay features removed from the updated TF2.
Shack: Are there plans for any kind of “vanilla” game mode to filter out the new items for players that just want to play a quick match of the core game?
Robin Walker: Almost all the requests we’ve received in this area have come from competitive players. While we don’t think this update adds any new issues for competitive play, we are aware of the desire for leagues to control what their players are using, so we’re thinking about how we can help them do that. Still, we’re optimistic as ever. We believe that the more interesting & viable choices available to competitive players, the more depth there is for them to use to their advantage. It’d be a shame if they’re prevented from exploring the strategic possibilities that the new items add.
Hey, look at the update for today folks.
Payload race confirmed and two new arena maps.