By Jim Rossignol on May 23rd, 2009 at 11:06 am.
Quite a few people mailed this work in progress video in, so thanks to you all. It’s a Men Of War mod called Battletech: In The Shadow Of Giants, which drops Battletech mechs into the Men of War maps. Posted below is what the mod team have currently currently released as a demonstration of how the mechs might look or work in the engine, and it’s splendid. This is the kind of mod that really makes me glad of the flexibility of modern game engines. Go take a look, I think you’ll be surprised. Not sure what the smoky end bit is about, but hey.
23/05/2009 at 11:09 Heliocentric says:
Can the mechs steal other mechs hats?
23/05/2009 at 11:15 blerg says:
I want them to have KV-2s for feet and Karl-Geräts for nipples.
23/05/2009 at 11:50 Larington says:
Yes, but how long until the Angry Internet Lawyers send them a Rage-cease and Rage-desist? The untextured mechs even look like the MadCat (MkII?) design.
23/05/2009 at 11:54 Ging says:
That’s an impressive start, they’ve got more done than most mech mods!
Wonder if they’ll convert infantry into elementals, if that sort of z-movement is even possible in the engine.
23/05/2009 at 12:00 Andrew Dunn says:
I’d say it’s possible – planes in unmodded Men of War can take off and fly around (by pressing space) so other vehicles could probably be persuaded to act similarly.
23/05/2009 at 12:03 Jim Rossignol says:
Best Way should totally make a sci-fi RTS. Spacemen Of War.
23/05/2009 at 12:06 Dominic White says:
@Larington – The Battletech rights-holders actually seem pretty cool with fan-works. Remember that they gave official blessing to the Mechwarrior: Living Legends mod for Crysis?
http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/
A little mech-mod for a relatively little-known strategy game is unlikely to get any attention, and if they DO see it, it’s likely to get a ringing endorsement.
23/05/2009 at 12:17 MrMud says:
*crackle* We have mechs down at nav gamma…
23/05/2009 at 12:45 Gap Gen says:
Ground Control mod for the absolute win.
23/05/2009 at 12:45 Sum0 says:
This is awesome. Some games you look at and think “Hey, that’s pretty cool.” Some games you look at and think “I want to buy a drink for/marry the developers.” Giant robots. Explosions. I’ll be watching this one.
23/05/2009 at 12:51 Tei says:
This could be a exact perfect mix of simulation and rts. I am looking forward for this.
23/05/2009 at 12:52 Larington says:
@Dominic White: Ahh thats a relief, always sucks to see a fan effort get knocked over wrecking a ton of effort. Always nice to see rights holders that aren’t over protective of their work.
23/05/2009 at 12:53 Tunips says:
Looks very snazzy. The destructables in MoW are a great match for mechs. If this creates an appetite for strategic mech-on-mech action, I’ll point out that all of the mechcommander games can be had for $0 from http://mechcommander.org/
23/05/2009 at 12:54 the affront says:
Loved MechCommander back in the day – hopefully this will be along those lines.
23/05/2009 at 12:57 Anhamgrimmar says:
Goddamit MrMud, now i’ve got to go find my MW2 cd again. Alpha Assault and Bravo Cadet should have been able to take both of those bloody summoners.
23/05/2009 at 13:22 crumbsucker says:
@MrMud
HQ, this is Alpha Assault; I’m on my way, bearing 025.
ETA 34 seconds.
Alpha Assault, this is Bravo Cadet. I’ve got bandits all over me, just get down here!
…
*wipes away tears of nostalgia*
23/05/2009 at 13:29 LionsPhil says:
Nazi Science, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
I am reminded of this. (Not a game, despite the domain.)
23/05/2009 at 13:44 Carra says:
Those mechs could use some coloring.
23/05/2009 at 14:20 Koopa says:
Love the music. Fits perfectly to emphasize how beautiful it is when shit gets blown up.
23/05/2009 at 14:34 Visi says:
I admit it, I didn’t watch the video. I just opened it in a background tab and enjoyed the music.
23/05/2009 at 14:45 Dain says:
Erm, while on the subject of Battletech, don’t know if any of you have noticed this:
http://www.moddb.com/games/assault-tech-1-battletech
It’s a remake of MW2 with details from 3/4.. there is a beta to download but it’s somewhat outdated now.. there’s been fairly constant video updates over the last few weeks..
23/05/2009 at 15:00 Tim says:
And all is made right with the world, care of this mod.
23/05/2009 at 15:07 AlexW says:
Anham, you mean you can get MW2 to work on modern PCs?! I MUST KNOW THE SECRET. MW4:V/BK just isn’t the same.
23/05/2009 at 15:16 Dioptase says:
The second song is “hanging” from Craig Armstrong.
http://www.deezer.com/#music/album/18122
Don’t know what the first one is. Maybe a piano work from Craig Armstrong as well?
23/05/2009 at 15:55 DMJ says:
Firstly: Want.
Secondly: Hmm, animation of the Mechs could use a bit more “weight” (Look at MW4 for Mech animation that makes it obvious that these things weigh up to 100 tons), but I can live with that.
23/05/2009 at 16:25 Marty Dodge says:
Even more reason why there should be a Mechwarrior or Robotech MMO.
23/05/2009 at 16:25 Gabanski83 says:
Nice splodes; might have to pick up Men Of War now, at some point.
23/05/2009 at 16:47 Andrew Dunn says:
The animations are apparently only placeholders at present – the other tech demo they have on YouTube has the mechs being pretty much static and just sliding around everywhere with no movement in the legs.
23/05/2009 at 17:08 Kommissar Nicko says:
It’s…
Beautiful.
23/05/2009 at 17:28 Anhamgrimmar says:
AlexW:
I’ve never tried it on win XP, so no idea if it works or not. I’ve got a Pentium 75 based Win95SE/DOS 6.22 system that i keep, for just such a purpose
23/05/2009 at 17:41 Fenchurch says:
Aha! An excellent excuse to go rewatch the gorgeously cheesy Mechcommander intro sequence!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQPWE_M_EM
“TRACK THAT POD!”
Seriously though, I think I must get Men of War now.
23/05/2009 at 17:46 crumbsucker says:
AlexW, there’s a fan-made patch for the win95/DirectX versions of MW2. This allows it to run under Win XP.
http://www.warp13.co.uk/mech2
If you have the DOS version, you have to use Dosbox.
23/05/2009 at 19:03 Psychopomp says:
@Dominic
I am now morally obligated to buy something Battletech, just because the right-holders are actually cool with fan-made stuff.
23/05/2009 at 19:08 Bhazor says:
Oh god! I’m getting the Mechwarrior pangs again!
Oh why don’t we have a new MechWarrior game right now?
23/05/2009 at 19:49 Hoernchen says:
The size of those mechs is WAY off…
23/05/2009 at 21:01 elle says:
“Oh why don’t we have a new MechWarrior game right now?”
Jordan Weisman, the same reason the Shadowrun game was… what it was.
23/05/2009 at 21:09 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
Dear lordy I hope this mod doesn’t fizzle out.
23/05/2009 at 21:39 Heliocentric says:
Mech commander 2 is a mech game i recommend as it doesn’t suffer from “bigger is better”itus sure most mech games have a drop weight limit but mc2 doesn’t limit you to 4 or 8 mechs when you have a 360 or 500 tonne limit. In the last mission a swarm of light mechs is just as legitimate as 8 hundred tonne beasties. I wish a mech game would let you legitimately field non mech units, i’m sure a tank can use cover and is cheaper than a mech. A mech is exceptional because it towers over things, when will mech game makers learn that when everyone is 80′ tall, no one is.
23/05/2009 at 21:55 Corbeau says:
Mechcommander 2 was a shadow of the original Mechcommander’s tooth-grinding, unforgiving difficulty. Nor did it have a tenth of the original’s flavor. Pity that the Battletech boardgame does not hold up well nowadays – it is far too complex and time consuming for what it delivers (this from a fanatic of the game years ago).
However, I am compelled to point out that the Omnimechs shown in the mod video are Timber Wolves. None of this “mad cat” trash, freebirth! They are definitely not that “mark 2″ export knock-off, either. If I recall correctly, the “mark 2″ isn’t even an Omni!
:p
23/05/2009 at 22:26 Heliocentric says:
Clanners are pratts. Good luck taking over the core when your gene banks begin to deviate.
23/05/2009 at 22:45 Dominic White says:
@Corbeau – the Battletech boardgame WAS horribly complicated, but thankfully we have the wonders of technology to make it accessible to everyone!
http://megamek.sourceforge.net/idx.php?pg=main – Classic Battletech boardgame in fancy computerized form. All the tedious dice-rolling and rule-remembering done for you.
And as a side-project: Mekwars.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mekwars/ – A persistent campaign engine for Megamek.
24/05/2009 at 01:00 Idle Threats & Bad Poetry says:
Technical problem
I live in China, and a lot of the videos here don’t work for me. Youtube is blocked here. Would it be too much trouble to add a link to where the videos are located? As it is now, I don’t know if it’s a Youtube problem, Gametrailers, or some other site. If It’s another site, going there directly may help me out.
24/05/2009 at 04:03 IvanHoeHo says:
If I have to murder someone got get to play the finished product, I WILL.
I imagine that with some tweaking, the game AI might be able to competently , as pilot these things, too.
I wish they`d steal from someone else, though, as mechwarriors aren`t the best looking things when viewed up close.
Minus the crappy, overused music, `course.
*edited for rationality*
24/05/2009 at 04:20 MrDorf says:
Every shot in the video except one (1:05-1:09) is under AI control.
24/05/2009 at 05:59 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
@IvanHoeHo: The Mechwarrior is the pilot while the ‘Mech is the machine, just to clarify.
24/05/2009 at 09:06 Stromko says:
Rather awesome video, I do hope they polish up and release it someday. I’d love to punt a Tiger around with an Atlas. ;) A cityscape map with multiple ‘mechs would be interesting, but just ‘mechs vs Panzers and SS troops could be extremely fun. Trying to clear out an infantry-infested city with some flamer-equipped urban mechs could be ridiculously fun, so long as infantry have some real bite to them.
I wonder if they’re able to make it so every (anti-armor) attack does a little bit of damage, instead of just bouncing off entirely. Seems like in vanilla Men of War that’s how it works, a hit either does nothing or damages / destroys a component.
Mechwarrior / Battletech tends to go on a more ‘ablative’ model, where you’re taking damage with every hit but you’re able to sustain at least one strike anywhere (barring clan PPCs and other silliness). In the video, they were taking dozens of rocket hits to no apparent effect. I should hope when they’re done they strike a good balance between awe-inspiring power and classic ‘David vs Goliath’ matchups.
Taking out a ‘mech with nothing but some jump troops, a few bazooka or 40mm artillery rounds, maybe a few anti-tank mines, could make for a ludicrously difficult but fun scenario.
edit: Ahh, the topic that the post links to goes on about the damage model, looks like most of the criticals the ‘mechs could’ve taken were disabled so that the AI could run around blasting everything longer, and there were a couple massive hits that I missed on my watch-through.
24/05/2009 at 09:40 MrDorf says:
@Stromko:
The armor model in MoW actually allows for the “crushing” of armor over time if the shots don’t pierce outright, which is the route we’re taking at the moment. It works surprisingly well, and really feels like old school Battletech.
Our overall plan is to make this a combined arms mod, not just mechs, mechs, mechs all the time. Infantry will play a huge role in the missions attached to the mod (Jump infantry and Elementals aren’t slated for the first couple release waves though).
The positive responses we’ve been receiving since we released the video is fantastic though…we’re hoping we can get the first release together in the next couple months.
24/05/2009 at 10:01 Stromko says:
MrDorf: That sounds great, exactly what I wanted to hear. Not going the combined-arms route for a Men of War mod would’ve been a shame.
Will there be any way, once there’s a release candidate, to just slap some ‘mechs into a pre-existing mission? A lot of missions are already balls-hard for me on Easy mode (though nothing judicious use of slo-mo and save-and-reload can’t compensate for), bringing in an Omnimech as a reinforcement once the s**t hits the fan could be crazy fun.
Depends how much of a purist you want to be with the mod, just seems like–once development is further along and there’s fully functional ‘mechs– that placing them in a pre-existing cityscape and letting us chew up the scenery with their lovely arsenal and stompy feet would provide lots of fun with less development time than starting a map and new enemies from scratch.
(edit: Not saying a fully-realized Battletech / Mechwarrior battle down the line wouldn’t be great too, just sayin’ :))
24/05/2009 at 10:43 cdm says:
As millitaristic eugenicists, the Clans and Nazis would get on well together.
24/05/2009 at 10:48 rebb says:
Whoever is still sitting on the MechWarrior/BattleTech Rights with their fat asses, not doing any proper Games with them, needs to be melted with a PPC.
24/05/2009 at 10:49 Heliocentric says:
It would be lovely to be able to switch out equipment on. Then i can field my old erppc+lbx20 puma. A 30 tonne which can take out a heavy. Need to be super close though. But you are small enough to power down and hide behind anything.
24/05/2009 at 11:02 Paxeh says:
Oh jeez, Clan Mad Cat’s are so overrated.
Why don’t we ever see these mod teams starting with Inner Sphere Mechs in their techdemo’s?
24/05/2009 at 11:51 Heliocentric says:
The inner sphere mechs tend to try to hard to look like people japan mech style, its goofy.
24/05/2009 at 11:54 Riaktion says:
I bloody love Battletech and a new game from the universe is long overdue in my opinion. I would love a game based on the books with real character development, perhaps following the exploits of Archer Christifori (for lore fans). Anyways… for now if anyone can tell me how to get mechcommander gold working on Vista I would hug them.
24/05/2009 at 13:39 MrMud says:
Yea if you want mechs that look like people just play gundam or something. Us starving non-japanese people need us some timberwolves.
24/05/2009 at 13:55 KBKarma says:
I REALLY want to play MechWarrior 4 now. Hell, I’d LOVE to play MechWarrior 3.
@Heliocentric: I was going to comment on the Atlas being a Clan ‘Mech (as far as I can tell. Looks like I know what I’ll be reading after my exams…), which seemed pretty humanoid to me, but then I got a look at Inner Sphere ‘Mechs. And compared them to the Atlas. I see your point.
24/05/2009 at 16:42 Heliocentric says:
Atlas=sphere=looks like a bloke holding a gun
Clans looks like they have developed from industrial walkers robots.
Sphere looks like they developed from ASIMO. Except Crab and king crab, which are both awesome.
King crab:
http://www.djgallagher.com/games/pc/battletech/wallpaper/KingCrab_1024x768.jpg
http://aw0l.homestead.com/files/AJ_KingCrab.jpg
24/05/2009 at 17:28 Him says:
*gazes at video*
I’m buying Men of War.
Also; if memory serves there were a few concept shots of MW:5 posted on dropshipcommand.com a number of years back by one of the MW:4 project leads (paingod, I think). Entirely unrelated to the article, but I’m sure some of the RPS readers would get a kick from seeing them.
24/05/2009 at 19:40 Vykromod says:
Can I be an enormous pedant here?
The image for this post is not well-chosen. I know that the old-school Warhammer is iconic for some, but it is one of about 20 or so designs that are no longer used in BattleTech. There was a lawsuit involved because some of the early ‘mechs were taken directly from other sources and FASA may or may not have actually had the rights to use them (the details aren’t clear).
24/05/2009 at 19:49 Dominic White says:
To elaborate a little, the Warhammer and Marauder and a few others were – oddly enough – Japanese designs from Macross (also known under its heavily-altered US guise as Robotech). Yep, those iconic clunky walking tanks are from anime, which adds a bit of comedic irony to any complaints about anime encroaching onto American giant robot fiction.
And on another amusing aside, Battletech got re-released in Japan at some point, with most of the US mech designs retained, but redrawn with a new art style – they look a bit more like they’re from the year 3030+, and have much more in the way of sloped armor.
http://www.gearsonline.net/btech/mechs.php
I really like their Rifleman design. That thing looks mean. Even the Locust looks pretty cool.
24/05/2009 at 21:21 KBKarma says:
@Heliocentric: Ah, I see the difficulty. According to the BattleTech Wiki (which I spent a happy three and a half hours on instead of studying AI), it was commissioned by Aleksandr Kerensky. This was before the Exodus, and Kerensky doesn’t seem to have taken any with him, so the only people that still manufacture it are Sphere facilities (only three in the Sphere, in fact).
Admittedly, I only found out it was based off a tabletop game after I played MechWarrior 3. Is it a collectible minis game or a tactical war-game or an RPG? In other words, can you just buy one ‘Mech and play without buying any more, or do you need small armies of ‘Mechs?
24/05/2009 at 21:42 Vykromod says:
@KBKarma: I think “tactical war-game” is the best description of those you’ve given. Although it’s possible to play it as a miniatures-based wargame, the rules are primarily written expecting you to be on a hex-tiled map. As a consequence of that, you don’t strictly need any miniatures at all. Any counters will work as long as you can determine which side of it represents the front end.
There’s also an RPG written around the setting. No idea if it’s any good or not.
24/05/2009 at 22:45 Dorian Cornelius Jasper says:
@Dominic White: I’ll drink to that. It bears mentioning that most Western giant robot works were themselves inspired by anime. Those redesigns were by Studio Nue, the makers of Macross. They look more like walking tanks than the original designs.
@Heliocentric: The entire concept of a bipedal war machine is goofy–chicken walkers only slightly less. The Japanese themselves have long figured out that you’d need at least 4 legs to get a decently practical legged vehicle (see: Ghost in the Shell). Just because a walker robot might look more “industrial” than its more romanticized analogs doesn’t mean it’s any less idiotic in real life. I mean they’re robots with pew-pew lasers for cryin’ out loud. It’s silly to be sniffy towards works that embrace their genre more whole-heartedly.
Considering the size of ‘Mechs, it’s even more ludicrous. At least BF2142 had the sense of mind to scale things down a bit. Ground-based war machines only get less practical the larger they become–what’s true for tanks is true for robots.
I’m tired of hearing Mechwarrior fans poo-pooing Japanese robots for being silly. It’s missing the forest for the trees! The whole concept’s silly. Actual realism is for tanks. Giant robots are simply to look cool. (Though Armored Trooper VOTOMS robots are more realistic than anything I’ve seen in the Battletech universe, especially since they’re less than 20 feet tall.)
That said, bring on the Inner Sphere ‘Mechs. I never did like Clans, their culture always creeped me out. (While others thought it was cool–diff’rent strokes.)
24/05/2009 at 23:03 Dominic White says:
A little tangent – I just had a quick peek at Mekwars (the online side of MegaMek, which in itself is an adaptation of classic tabletop Battletech), and there’s 50+ people in the lobby and 16 current games being played right now.
So anyone who wants to play old-school Battletech, you might as well skip on the tabletop version and go straight online.
http://www.mekwars.org/
It’s free, it’s well supported, and there seems to be a large and active playerbase. It’s also persistent-world based. You start out with a hangar full of mechs, and can buy/sell units with your winnings from various missions.
You might want to learn the ropes playing against Megamek bots, though. Just warning ya.
24/05/2009 at 23:22 Gap Gen says:
If you want to be serious about mechs then yeah, designing something that would fall over if you hit it with a cannon isn’t that smart.
24/05/2009 at 23:36 Dominic White says:
On a mech design tangent, while much-maligned, the Mechwarrior: Age of Destruction clix game actually spawned some cool new designs. I recall seeing a 150-ton super-assault class with three legs, and a full 360-degree rotatable body.
Logically speaking, that’s probably a far, far more viable mech design than anything to come out of Battletech. It also looked mean as hell.
25/05/2009 at 11:55 KBKarma says:
@Cornelius: I like to think the whole mech thing falls under Rule of Cool, which, to be fair, is perfectly true.
25/05/2009 at 15:25 Wisq says:
@Gap Gen: Or something that would fall over if it fired a cannon, as opposed to an energy weapon.
Maybe modern tanks are different, or maybe I’m just remembering game footage rather than real-life footage, but I seem to recall that even today’s tracked, low-centre-of-gravity tanks suffer a fair bit of visible recoil firing their main gun. And futuristic as they may sound, gauss guns aren’t exactly recoilless.
25/05/2009 at 16:06 Gap Gen says:
But yeah, the Rule of Cool is fair enough. After all, more realistic futuristic combat would probably be incomprehensible lighting-fast combat between UAVs. After all, modern combat is already supposed to be surprising and deadly. Star Trek and Star Wars would be no fun if by the time the crew had stopped yakking, the ship had been blown up many times over by an AI firing from across the solar system.
25/05/2009 at 16:31 Heliocentric says:
The reason I can stomach mech warrior but not… lets say gundam (that Armored Trooper VOTOMS seems much more reasonable though), when the robots are near 400 feet tall and move at near the speed of sound.
I find that sci fi is more meaningful when they arn’t just pulling “its magic/nanobots/god/plot-tech” out of their arse.
I however, loved the Chromehounds justification epic mid/upper atmosphere radiation, no satellites, no long range coms, when you have no viable artillery/planes/long range missiles and limited soldiers mechs seem much less silly.
25/05/2009 at 16:55 Dominic White says:
Actually, Gundam (or at least the original series – not the power-inflation newer shows) was pretty low-tech. The robots themselves were pretty slow and clunky (and some of them were just vaguely humanoid assemblies slapped onto tank-treads), and for any kind of real agility, you need a Newtype (low-level psychic with much better awareness/reflexes) pilot.
The 08th MS Team miniseries – a story about generic grunt pilots, as human as you can get – might as well be Battletech if you just took the arms off the mechs and made them more hunched-over. Plenty of lurking around with passive sensors in the hopes of jump-jetting onto a target.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_koZ9T_oo
25/05/2009 at 17:22 Heliocentric says:
Teach me for just skimming the topic.
Mechwarrior 4 was a hacked mess, but I loved giving an assault mech a bloody nose in a light mech. I’ll be following this mod and the Crysis mod closely.
25/05/2009 at 19:20 Dominic White says:
Getting a little further off-topic, on the general subject of eastern giant robots – most fall into two main types. There’s Super Robots, which are effectively giant metal superheroes. Usually lumbering, nigh-invulnerable, made of alien alloys and fuelled by the indomitable power of the human heart.
Then there are ‘Real’ robots. The general school of design seems to be akin to jetfighters. Piloted by limited humans for the most part, and just a couple of direct hits will ruin most Real designs. Even less, in many cases. They rely on agility, speed and long-range weaponry to fight for the most part.
Somewhere between those two are the ridiculous overpowered designs that take the best of both worlds. They’ve got the speed and agility, but the near-magical levels of power and toughness. They’re fun to play as (it’s like playing as Superman, but fifty feet high!), but often inspire eye-rolling from outside viewing.
And then there’s the relatively uncommon third option – Battletech style designs are what I’ve heard described as Vertanks (Vertical Tanks), which are just as the name describes. They’re lumbering weapons platforms with tons of armor. The designs in Steel Battalion and Chrome Hounds (which has one of the most badass alternate-history settings ever – walking battleships in the 1980s!) all fit into this category.
And back on the general topic, while Mechwarrior 4 was a bit of a damp squib, I found MW4: Mercenaries to be a lot of fun. There was a lot of difference between the good/evil campaign routes, and the fan-made Mektek addons kept multiplayer viable for years.
25/05/2009 at 20:31 Heliocentric says:
Indeed, it was MW4: Mercenaries I was thinking of, fighting in the Solaris free for all arena in the lightest chassis I could. I got Mercs first and was greatly disappointed by MW4.
You could solo the first few missions, or frugally load out a lance or two, issue fire orders and listen to the voices of your lancemates (who you could hire from a choice of 30 or so). Very clever game.
25/05/2009 at 20:34 Vinraith says:
As an added incentive, Gamersgate currently has Men of War for a meager $12 US, presumably for the next week. I finally had to break down and get it.
26/05/2009 at 12:05 Mind Elemental says:
An Armoured Trooper VOTOMS strategy game in English would be fantastic. (It would never happen, though.) The brilliant conceit of VOTOMS was, not only were the mechs <20 feet, they were also disposable – more like scaled-up powered armour suits. The hero would routinely get his ride shot out from under him and switch to a spare.
26/05/2009 at 15:21 Alteisentier says:
Good lord if anyone can tell me what the first song used in that video is I’ll hug you to death.
26/05/2009 at 17:04 Andrew Dunn says:
The thread linked in the first post names the music tracks used.