There has been, it seems, something of a fuss over the announcement from Valve that they’re releasing a sequel to Left 4 Dead this November. The main point of contention has been that many were expecting more new content to be added to the original game, rather than appearing in the form of a full price sequel. This was underlined when an article on VideoGamer was rediscovered in which Valve boss Gabe Newell stated, “So we’ll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we’ll have the initial release and then we’ll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that’s the way you continue to grow a community over time.”
We spoke to Valve’s VP of marketing, Doug Lombardi, to ask him about the player response. He talks to us about the reasons why L4D2 is a full sequel, why gamers should wait to find out more about the game before making up their minds, and how there are definitely still plans for the original Left 4 Dead.
RPS: The main point of contention has been that a while back there was a statement from Gabe Newell given to VideoGamer in which he said there were plans to add more characters, unlockables, weapons and achievements to the original Left 4 Dead.
Doug Lombardi: So, we’ve made a number of releases on the PC, and we made a pretty big release on the 360 in terms of the DLC, and we were able to get out for free which I thought would pretty cool, and it was not an easy thing to pull off. Beyond that, we plan to continue updating Left 4 Dead. We’re not done with that title, it’s not over. The SDK stuff just came out. I think we mentioned to RPS that if you’re using the SDK and making maps for it, those will work for L4D2 as well. We are trying to keep the community together – we’re going to be doing more stuff about keeping the community together as we get closer to launch.
I think the short answer is: trust us a little bit. We’ve been pretty good over the years, even with L4D going back just a few months, about supporting games post-launch. Gabe’s always talking about providing entertainment as a service – it’s not about making a game any more. That’s one point of it.
The other point is, we didn’t sit down and say, “We need to ship a sequel next for next Christmas, what features do we need?” That wasn’t the way it happened, that’s not the way Valve works. What did happen was, the team sat down and said, “We’ve got a bunch of ideas of stuff we want to do.” People were really fired up when the game was finished, and there was a lot of feedback and ideas that came from watching people play – on the scale of millions of people, as opposed to hundreds of people that we went through during the playtesting sessions. So we put a lot of those things on the board and said, “What can we do quickly? What’s going to take more time? What’s the best way to get stuff out to customers?” And part of that plan ended up with L4D2, with things like changing the way the finales worked, introducing some new Survivors, giving new dialogue, telling more about the story, introducing new Specials. We said, “Wow, that makes for a nice sequel.” And then there was the stuff in the Survival Pack which makes for a nice DLC. And what we’d like to do is release a great game, provide lots of entertainment-as-a-service type of features, whether they’re technical updates or whether it’s the Survival Pack, and then also deliver more.
RPS: So how did the sequel come about?
DL: One of the biggest pieces of feedback we got after the game came out, and even after the Survival Pack, was: this is all really great, I loved it, but I want a bunch more campaigns, I want more content. In a sense, L4D2 is a response to what players were asking for after the first one shipped. That’s really how it came about. I think if folks spot us a bit more time, they may see where we’re going with all this. The more they learn about how much there is in L4D2… I mean, twenty new weapons isn’t DLC! Three new Specials, and twenty weapons, and five new campaigns: that starts to feel like a sequel. I think as more gets unveiled as we go from E3 to Comic Con and PAX, and show the game in places where the public can play, and then when the demo comes out a couple of weeks before launch, I think people will get where we’re going, and hopefully don’t think that we’ve turned into some sort of opportunist cow milkers.
RPS: Do you wonder whether an aspect of it is that it’s been so quick? Do you think if you’d waited another six or eight months, people might have responded better?
DL: Maybe, maybe. But two years from now though, would you look back and say that was better? Like I say, give it some time: quick decisions aren’t usually the best ones. I would say that may have been part of it, people may have felt differently about it had it taken longer to produce it. The other thing is, it’s something new for Valve. Valve doesn’t have a reputation for shipping quick sequels! So it’s something different. We had similar reactions when we announced The Orange Box. There were a lot of people who thought, “It’s not going to be worth fifty dollars, all these games are really tiny,” and then by the time the game came out the review said, “The best value in gaming.” Again, I would say, let us tell more of the story before people make their final judgement. And then if they say we’re f’d, then that’s fair. [laughs]
RPS: Do you think part of the problem might have been that the Survival Pack felt like it was finishing the first game. When there were two versus campaigns that weren’t in there, it might have felt like the Survival Pack completed the game rather than added to it.
DL: Maybe. It’s hard to say, I haven’t sat down and had a calm, reasonable dialogue with a group of people that have had [this week's] reaction yet. I’ve been busy keeping it a secret, then we just announced it a couple of days ago. I also want to get more informations, I want to hear more of what their story is and what they’re reacting to, so I can understand it better, and I’m sure Gabe feels the same way. We’ll see what is the genesis of why folks are having this reaction to it. And that [the Survival Pack] might have been part of it as well, but it’s definitely not the case that we’re closing the book on L4D and saying, “Next time you get anything it’s when the sequel comes out.”
RPS: So is there any chance of new content like new maps and new campaigns in the original L4D?
DL: Yeah, there’s certainly a chance of that, and we’re not announcing any of the specifics of that today. Like I say, stay tuned, there’s more coming, there’s more information we’re going to talk about for the sequel, there’s more content coming for Left 4 Dead in the fairly near term, that I think will sort of add to this picture and hopefully change some people’s opinions of what’s happening right now.
Thanks to Doug Lombardi for taking time out of a crazed E3 schedule to talk to us. The RPS hivemind realises people are very passionate about this subject, but remains confident that the discussion below will not make us frown.
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Okay I’ll wait. Maybe we definitely need to give them more time. Patience is a virtue but i’m still a little uneasy because almost every answer was: LEFT 4 DEAD 2 whoooo look how pretty it is going to beeeee…..lol.
I’d better see Zoey, Bill, Louis and Francis….That’s all I have to say….. I’m just wondering if they are ever going to tell the story behind the infection or how the Survivors met up??? I would love to see that.. What did every survivor go through until they met up with the others. Where are their families and friends…wut happened to them? Did they go through difficult situations and decisions? Is there are cure?? What happened to the rest of the globe??
YOU kNOW WHAT????
BUT IF IT AINT BROKE DON’T FIX IT!!! =). I think i like it without a story because then I’d have to pay attention..I LOVE THE FACT THAT IT IS A PICKUP AND PLAY GAME.. YOU RUN, CHU!(Shoot), Rescue and PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!
@Melf_Himself: probably because I’ve played the original, and I fail to understand how what I see that’s familiar–and hasn’t changed–differs from more of the same. Go figure. How many hours of the same thing do I need to watch to realize that it’s not new? Geez…YouTube hasn’t lied to me yet for any game I’ve played. I bought Crysis and Crysis Wars based on what I saw on YouTube, and it gave an excellent feel for the gameplay.
So Gabe Newell tries to address the complaints.
And once again misses the point:
That they haven’t changed their plans is exactly the problem, since so far, their plans have been “bugfixes, but none of the promised DLC”. We want to see a change in plans. We want their plans to be changed to “let’s give them the new campaigns and other content we promised”.
In his defense, he does mention that
which is nice, but it seems awfully suspicious that he goes into detail about the matchmaking and modding changes, but says *nothing* about what he means by “new content”.
Is it really so hard, if you intend to add new campaigns, to go out and say “we still intend to add new campaigns to L4D”?
The one group of people that seems to be missing in most of the comments on the boycott group site and the articles on the web are the server owners.
As a server owner, I support L4D by paying for 4 West Coast servers out of my own pocket that have had in total roughly 17000 players since they were started 4 months ago. As well, I work for a server company that provides numerous servers for TF2, L4D, CS:S and other Valve games.
One disturbing trend I have seen is the daily cancellation of L4D servers. Since the ‘Survival Pack’ the company I work for has seen a 70% increase in server cancellations of servers that service Central North America and the West Coast. That number increases daily.
The biggest drop was right after the ‘Survival Pack’ when people began to realize how minor the changes actually were. Most people played Survival mode until they got the achievements and then moved back to Co-op or Versus. We lost 45% of the servers within days of that release.
The second spike was right after the news about L4D2. That was about 20% of the servers. The other 5% has been just due to attrition since the DLC was released.
Now, obviously there have been new servers started, but the total loss of server coverage totals about 70% in the company I work for, and I work for a shitty little hole in the wall no one even knows about. In actual numbers that means about 110 servers are now shut down in the past couple months with my employer alone. I wonder how this has affected Gameservers or Darkstar.
I should mention that most of the people canceling servers have been very vocal about why they’re canceling them, and I agree with the majority of their reasons, especially about the release of L4D2.
So, I pose this question to you, do you think splitting the games community base will increase or decrease the number of servers for both games?
Secondly, do you think server owners that are canceling their servers will be rushing out to start a L4D2 server after they feel that they’ve been burned by Valve?
The answers are pretty obvious.
All you flame-baiters screaming about the boycott group being a bunch of whining retards might want to think about that, because without the server owners, you’d have no where to play either game.
As for myself, I don’t have any choice but to ‘get’ the game since it’s purchased for me by my employer for troubleshooting and testing. However, I’ll be shutting down my servers the day L4D2 is released unless both games can be serviced by a single server and other significant issues about the release of L4D2 are satisfactorily dealt with by Valve.
”
I still don’t understand what the original fuss is about. Quake 3 and UT were primarily online games, but I don’t remember people bitching about that. L4D has the equivelent of 20 maps, which is a reasonable size, so I’m not sure what other content people expect(ed).
Seems to me that Valve has set an expectation for free content, and now people are getting greedy.”
20 maps… yeah, a bugged gameplay. Come on, you can’t be serious. It’s not our greed, it’s theirs! Releasing Left 4 Dead 2 this soon can only be seen as greed on their side. Left 4 Dead 1 isn’t even ‘done’ yet. Valve even admits that they want to continue to tweak and update it for a lot longer.
No offense, but Valve should be working on Half-life 3 and a new engine right about now instead of trying to prolong the Source engine’s life beyond what makes sense.
Team Fortress 2, art direction aside, looks like last gen crap. Left 4 Dead 1 really doesn’t look a lot better even though it has a better style. If Left 4 Dead 2 has anything but a new engine, I’m not going to buy it.
If I want good gameplay, but mediocre graphics, I’ll play Day of Defeat: source instead.
Of course, the basic premise of Left 4 Dead is pretty damn good, so I did expect a Left 4 Dead 2, but their timing is off by about a year.
“Secondly, do you think server owners that are canceling their servers will be rushing out to start a L4D2 server after they feel that they’ve been burned by Valve?
The answers are pretty obvious.”
You are dead wrong there, they will run to Left 4 Dead, as that has been exactly what happened after L4D 1, Team Fortress 2 even back with Counter-Strike Condition Zero.
Apparently not that many server owners dislike Valve and they really can get away with LOTS AND LOTS.
so we get a new l4d but NOT a new CSS. thats CRAZY theres more people playing CSS then L4D
Doesn’t matter anymore. The modders are planning to port L4D2 to L4D *without* the backwoods hick survivors and crap hillbilly music.
Sounds good to me.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898853
Now the thing im see here is that everyones still pissed after modding has like tripled the amount of maps and campaigns. Sure there arent new weapons or modes. You have the tools to make the new stuff yourself. Hell they give you the tools for free. Your all a bunch of lazy people. Really valve has rarely failed in the past. While i admit l4d was not as full of content as it could be but the innovation was amazing. Dynamically generated encounters are freakin unheard of for the most parts. And you were ALL prasing it when it first came out. L4d is my favorite game and im willing to shell out for the awesome tnew content they are adding. Honestly as long as it has the crazy zombie killing action l4d is l4d. So stfu because l4d is fine you just are looking at the glass half empty instead of half full
I just looked at my gamer stats for l4d.
Total Playtime:185h 38m 57s Past 2 weeks:12h 54m
Lets say just for shits and giggles, we just go off of my past 2 weeks. (that 12 hours was done in 2 sittings by the way.) Average cost of a movie ticket: 10$ Cost of popcorn for a large tub? Oh look, 6 dollars (rip off), price for a large drink? 4 dollars. (wtf right?) HOW LONG IS THAT MOVIE? 3 hours. I just payed 20 bucks…for a 3 hour experiance. ok so lets do some quick math. I played 12 hours this week. Divide that by 3. OMG WE HAVE 4. Ok so 4 times the cost of a movie by yourself…80$. 80 dollars, no tax, no 4.99 bs. K?
Following me so far?
Game time for a single session of l4d? 50 bucks. JUST FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES, lets say I bought it JUST for the one game play of 12 hours. Right off the bat we are 30 bucks under. I could do more math, but how much popcorn and soda could I buy at a discount store like winco foods or costco with 30 bucks? I can guarentee that it is more than a 24oz soft drink and a bucket of popcorn.
Lets go on shall we.
I just looked at Batman the dark knight on Amazon, one of the cheaper places to get things and I saw one for 21 dollars.
Each time I play this move in my (horrible expesnive bluray player name *HERE*) it is the same movie. Every time. No matter what.
Every time I play L4D, it is close, so I can get into a groove, but everytime the level changes, as do the situations, the enemy spawns, and even who I am playing with and their personalities. I can guarentee that I won’t get the replayability at release of a brand new 60 dollar blu ray disk as a 50 dollar game.
EVEN if they don’t do ANYTHING more on l4d1, you can get more replayability out of it than any 60 dollar movie, 10 dollar movie ticket which is a one time go jacked up price, or normal platform game with a “great” story. Even MGS4, which I have played twice through, only gives me 32 total hours, and doesn’t have dynamic gameplay, nor does it have a integrated mutiplayer aspect that forces me to constantly change.
So next time you are thinking “50 bucks for a brand new game and hundreds of hours of high quality gameplay and co op experiance? INSANE” Compare it to the alternatives in the world.
Zen Zombie. That is my steam account, feel free to find me on l4d almost every night that I can. Currently my name is clang*`
See ya when Zday hits.
My only worry… I hope the characters are cool. The game looks great.
and the ONE AND ONLY thing im praying for…………..which i pray for in every game.
WHERE BE FLAMETHROWER!!!
PLEASE VALVE!!! HEAR ME!!!!
FLAMETHROWER PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
I like how it says Wot You want to say: Lol anyway i agree tombraiderguy like they should join up together and you would have 2 things 8 player co-op and people would have a choice like if your the last one to join a game so your forced to be someone you dont want to be this way you have a choice on who to be. Also I think that there should be a new boss which I believe there is (unless thats supposed to be the jockey) it should be something like a spawnable witch to play as the witch u must spawn like 10 yards away from the survivors and then spawn her there so they have to go past her and may make it harder this way there is more stratagy for the survivors instead of run and shoot.