Comments on: Dawn Of War II Megapatch Incoming, Battlereport

By: Sovietmudkipz

Sovietmudkipz — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:48:43 +0000

I wonder how long it’ll take fans to produce a Helms Deep or Minas Tirith mod-map.
Man, that’ll be fun :)

By: Crispy

Crispy — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:47:24 +0000

Mehhh says:

Is this the patch that adds depth to the game?

Watch this match if you really think there’s no depth to the game:
http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/portals.php?show=page&name=dawn-of-war-2-battle-for-supremacy-episode-1

The depth in the game exists as:
- Map control (requisition nodes, power farms and Victory Points)
- Resource management (when to tech up, where to spend resources on which units and upgrades, from three different resource pools)
- Unit movement micro (kite/garrison/get behind cover)
- Unit attack (force ranged units into melee, use offensive unit abilities
- Unit support buffs (e.g. attack/defense/speed modifiers)

The reason people think this is not a ‘deep’ game is because it has less Macro than a traditional RTS like Starcraft. There are less units on the field, much less structure building and the tech tree is much more simplified. But the depth in DoW2 is in the fact every unit is upgradable, every unit has at least one ability that must be switched on/off, there is a cover system that affects all infantry units in the game. There is more potential for micro on a unit-per-unit basis in this game than Starcraft.

I don’t think it’s any more or less deep. And the fact the Koreans are playing it competitively probably indicates it does have a good amount of depth.

By: Warskull

Warskull — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:52:31 +0000

I have to be extremely skeptical about anything Relic does after it took them over a month to fix a crippling pop-cap bug. On top of that when they introduced 2v2 they let a major bug which allowed you to enter a 2v2 with 3 players and play a 3v1 and they have yet to fix it. With every patch relic has put out you are just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

DoW II’s release was incompetent and the game very clearly wasn’t tested before it got out the door. No reason to believe they’ve cleaned up their act until they prove it.

By: Him

Him — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:25:57 +0000

I’m highly curious about the changes in T1, particularly in reference to rebalancing the SM players. Tyranids, as we all know, are OP – removing rippers is a great start, hormgaunts needing some micro to get the best out of them is another good adjustment. Eldar, from the video, look to have a little bite back in melee. Guardian squads I’m not convinced were weak for their cost; particularly given then low price / high performance of their ‘nade upgrade. However, if their ‘nades are getting gently rebalanced I’m not averse to the boost to their ranged damage.
Orks, for the most part, are balanced.
But Space Marines… ohhhh Space Marines…
The increased length of the T1 stage of the game and the re-focusing of squads to a specific purpose has me worried. I see more tacspamming on the horizon. And I really, *really* would like to see either a durability or DPS upgrade on the Predator. The razorback has a HP boost. The dreadnought has a HP boost. The looted tank has a HP boost. And the Predator? About as much use as a .50cal mounted on a cow.

By: Serondal

Serondal — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:32:29 +0000

I think it’d be better without a match making system all. Just let players host and join games like Starcraft allows and keep track of their over all rank on the ladder based on this. If you want an even match you find someone ranked near you and if they aren’t ranked near you then it won’t improve your rank if you win and will heavily effect it if you lose the match.

By: Lilliput King

Lilliput King — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:29:13 +0000

Posting to agree with the people complaining about 3 v 3 team balance.

Just ridiculous to put a randomly cobbled together team against a cohesive team of players on voice chat who know eachother.

I’d like to see GRIMDARK’s idea implemented.

By: Sunjammer

Sunjammer — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:29:26 +0000

I love it when people equate complexity with depth. That’s just a riot every time.

By: Mehhh

Mehhh — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:18:38 +0000

Is this the patch that adds depth to the game?

By: SwiftRanger

SwiftRanger — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:49:16 +0000

Euh, PCG UK and some Relic devs have already hinted at upcoming singleplayer content (new items were already in 1.3.1 btw), the first source even speaks of a completely free Ork campaign... Btw, map editor is gonna be released as well now. Go Relic.

By: subedii

subedii — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:00:04 +0000

Sorry, that second link’s supposed to be:

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=10642912#post10642912

By: subedii

subedii — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:57:45 +0000

@Crispy: You’re right, it is largely impossible to judge balance from the vid. I believe that these posts will answer all three of your points (Croak’s a developer on DoW 2).

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=10642773#post10642773

You didn’t see any Rangers, Shuriplats, or Wraithlords that match either. The Eldar player just didn’t use all of his tools, and still hung in there pretty well for the early-mid game.

The ‘nid player did use all of his tools, and used them pretty well.

Keep in mind that this match was played, then commented on hours after the fact. It wasn’t staged for one race or the other to win, it just worked out that the ‘nid player did better and used more unit types, and that’s what they went with for the video.

In hindsight, it would have been better PR to show a match with the Eldar winning (they can and they do, often, internally). But with deadlines on getting the video edited, then approved (ESRB, THQ, GW) and the general excitement of being actually able to show y’all what we’ve been working on, nobody here really gave it too much thought, because it was an honest match that did show a lot of TIOW changes.

Just keep in mind that there’s a loser in the next TIOW replay we post as well (Orks vs SM), but try not to take that to mean the losing race is UP, or the winning one is OP.

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=10642773#post10642912

Both players are testers that are not directly assigned to the DoW II project. They haven’t had a lot of playtime with TIOW changes, and it showed, with the Eldar player particularly.

Once again, probably not the greatest PR move on our part, but that’s the same kinds of matchups you’re going to be seeing in Beta and after TIOW goes live, as people come to grips with the changes.

Basically the players weren’t from the regular DoW crew, the Eldar player was worse and tried to stick with a few units instead of changing tactics, and the video wasn’t staged.

Basically it can all be put down to them being inexperienced with the game. Not the best PR move really, but it was really just to act as a talking point for the devs to showcase the scope of the changes being made. More info will be coming once the beta hits.

By: Wirbelwind

Wirbelwind — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:47:42 +0000

Looks fantastic. Yay more interesting T1 start!