Don’t know what DRM is? Don’t care about it? Please vote in this poll. Lots of people are keenly outspoken about their dislike of digital rights management, and you can be sure they’ll make their feelings known here. If you don’t know what DRM is, or don’t care, please give us your input alongside everyone else: it’s important for us to get a clear picture.
See below for the poll. And ignore the n, it’s a crazy bug.
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Have you bought any games that used DRM in the past two years?
n
Do you deliberately try to purchase games that do not use DRM?
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Do you buy games via Steam?
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DRM’s a necessary evil, at least until a real anti-piracy solution comes up since developers close or start making “dumbed down console crap” when their games don’t sell as much as they had hoped. DRM might not be very effective at stopping piracy today, but any anti-piracy solution must involve some form of DRM.
just wish people would direct their outrage towards the forms of DRM that actually hurt legitimate consumers instead of whining about the entire thing. my favorite developers not going bankrupt is way more important than your inability to install a game on your 3 different computers that you happen to upgrade every 2 months.
I like how the recent EA model ended up. Have a few activations for the first few months a game is out, and then release the revoke tool. In theory, this stops people from pirating the game near launch date (period of most sales, highest price), but removing much of the DRM some time down the line keeps the buyers able to play the game as much as they want.
A few years ago i was making good money and would spend a 100$ or more a month on games. Quickly i had a stack of ones i never played after the first hour or so or others that were so buggy id bailed out a few hours into it. Tired of getting burned and access to high speed internet a few years later now i only buy 1-2 games a year bethesda, blizzard, or bioware usually collectors editions. (although id buy freelancer 2 in a heartbeat) Since those really are the only games i know ill enjoy. Regarding games i pirate, some i never play others only play for a few minutes and then delete. I just like to see whats unique about the game. Rarely ill stumble on a game like this that i really enjoy and play the heck out of it. 2 were “Freelancer” and “Ascension to the Throne” real gems imo. I tried to buy them after i found out i loved them but no store around me had them.
For the most part, I don’t care about DRM. And this policy has rewarded me by never having any DRM or Steam-related problems. Despite often running Daemon Tools (for good purposes only, mind) simultaneously with my games, and using the occassional crack when my discs go beyond repair.
Also, as far as my opinion of developers using DRM:
If it stops Day 0 and Week 1 piracy, it’s done its job. Beyond that, it’s totally superfluous. Numbers support this, as that is the period of highest sales, and also the period most hurt by Day 0 leaks.
you should add an extra question “have you ever deliberately modified a game so that it doesn’t do a DRM check (cd in drive, etc … )” (yes) — for me, when i install games on my laptop, i don’t want to carry around a large wedge of cd’s on the off chance i want to play something which is already installed, especially when there is no content on the cd which hasn’t already been copied to my hdd.
Darnit I voted no instead of yes on question 2. Only read the question halfway…
Anyway, I experience the expected 3rd world problems with online activations and Steam. And to make matters worse, telecoms in South Africa is dominated by the most evil monopoly. So internet usage really is a luxury.
I bought a game requiring online activation once. It sucked, was a lot of trouble what with shoddy GPRS, PC upgrades, etc and it fucked up my PC, so I’m not doing it again. Not unless I play a demo that really really really rocks. And then I’ll crack the game.
Yes
No Policy
Yes
Yes
Only had DRM problems with 2 games:
1 – Half Life 2. I got it when it first came out, when the early Steam servers had a panic attack when hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people all tried to validate the game at once. Cue nerd anguish as the expected end to the wait to one of the most anticipated games of all time is suddenly extended.
2 – Football Manager 2009. SI added another verification check on top of Steam. Unfortunately the servers for their own verification check were a pile of s***. After a couple of days of fans failing to get the game working because of this they apologised and removed the custom DRM, just leaving Steam.
Apart from those 2 occsions I’ve never had any problems with DRM and only on one other occasion (G4WL and RSC for GTA4) have I noticed DRM actually being installed.
Does the UK market get less DRM in thier games? As given all the moaning i’ve seen about programs like Securom and Starforce, I expected them to be more conspicuos.
Have you bought any games that used DRM in the past two years?
Yes – Mainly from Steam, not sure whatdisk based games that have DRM I have bought in the past two years. Because other then limited activations, DRM doesn’t bother me a huge amount if it doesn’t get in the way.
Do you deliberately try to purchase games that do not use DRM?
Yes – I suppose so. DRM free games, such as offered by GOG, will more likely to buy a game on a whim.
Do you buy games via Steam?
Yes – Yep, pretty much alway weekend deals or sales. Newer games are far too pricey. Which is a shame.
Have you ever been caught out by online checks and activations and not been able to play your game? (Be honest!)
Yep – Usually from Steam. Sometimes games don’t verify, or it comes up “your game is not available” or somesuch.
Also, Assassins Creed, if I wanted to play that I had to disable the internet before playing it. Apparently the game talks to a server everytime you kill anyone, pick up a flag, assassinate a templar etc. Stopping the game for a number of seconds, and making it unplayable.
I’ve also had various problems with various games generally refusing to work for whatever reason unless I cracked (my legally bought game) with a no cd patch.
Only game I’ve bought with DRM was Bioshock. I had been aware but never taken any notice of the software before then. I reached the 2 limited installation so downloaded another copy. I couldn’t get it to work and complained just like everyone else. I’ve never bought and will never buy anything with DRM in it ever again. I do however enjoy using Steam, although I am awaiting the day Steam closes; I am not looking forward to it. Hopefully that’s a few years away though.
Throw me in the pile with the people who just don’t care. I’ve been playing games (primarily PC) since the early 90s, and I never cared, nor have I ever had any problems. Tons of games using Starforce, Tages and Securom and never a single problem, even the ones that supposedly conflict with Daemon Tools. For me, the “draconian DRM” in my copies of Spore and Mass Effect were flawless: I installed them on both my home computer and my laptop and then I didn’t need the disc in either one. Nor has anyone I known ever run into any issue with DRM. I only hear circumstantial evidence from any internet men, so while it’s likely that they can cause issues for people, it’s been exaggerated way out of proportion.
“Yes” to the Steam question, but qualified: I have bought numerous games from Steam, but only during stupidly-cheap sales. If the price is sufficiently low (most of the sales have been $5 or less) then I am willing to put up with Steam’s DRM.
I refuse to use Steam for ‘regular’ priced games, though, and will seek out a more relaxed or DRM-free retailer.
New games which require Steam no matter where you buy them can pretty much go screw themselves.
The only game I have paid anything approaching full-price for on Steam is Left 4 Dead, which I specifically wanted to play with friends online, which made the DRM less of an issue.
While I will buy games with DRM (CD codes / CD checks), I usually think extra carefully before buying anything requiring online activation (it’s always a con when weighing up pros/cons of a purchase). If I know the game also has a limited number of activations it’s off the purchase list completely.
So far Steam is the only digital download service I’ve been comfortable using. I’m fairly confident they’ll stick around, I don’t encounter activation limits with most games (unlike other DD services) and the whole community aspect / overlay provides appeal. Sure, it has it’s glitches from time to time, but overall I’m a convert.
I’ve looked at GOG, but haven’t been inspired to buy anything from their catalogue yet.
re. question 2:
Only if I can’t buy them otherwise. Like the Orange Box and Empire:Total War.
re. question four:
Only by original games. Steam games and Neverwinter Nights 1+2 comes to my mind. Maybe some more. But I usually employ cracks to circumvent online-activation, for example for Spore or Far Cry 2.
Dishonest false dichotomyyyyyyy. Devs who don’t apply DRM to their titles don’t appear to go bankrupt at a higher rate than those who do. Shock!
+1 for cite fail, sorry about that.
My dvd drive has just packed up which makes most of my games a waste of hd space until I can afford to replace it. I don’t mind putting up with DRM (if it works), but really if publishers are going to go the whole hog with online activations and/or limited installs etc do we really need to have the disc in the drive to play?
The final question is a bit bothersome to me, I have been momentarily stopped by DRM many times, but one way or another (I’ll leave it at that) I’ve gotten to play my game within a few minutes of the initial block.
n
Starcontrol 2 had a really good DRM, A star is found on the map.
The Steam question is interesting. The poll is showing that people avoid DRM if they can but will happily use Steam. I would be interested to know why people give Steam a free pass even though it is fairly restrictive.
I would guess that trust has a big role to play. A small (relatively) company that has a good record with customer satisfaction and support Vs. big publishers using shady technology from external, not well known, companies. Personally I don’t like that the DRM companies are not directly accountable to me as a consumer and I don’t feel as though large publishers are trustworthy or care as much about customer satisfaction (they’re all about the bottom line).
@Mark M: actually, I believe a lot of the world has ended up signing onto similar bollocks as the DMCA, though not necessarily under that name. In Australia, for example, I believe we signed onto similar non-circumvention stuff as part of our Free Trade Agreement with the states… Anyone else get the feeling that IP law is getting more and more teeth as we in the wealthy west produce less and less that isn’t in the realm of IP?
@mister_d: As I suggested further up the thread, it’s probably because Steam also gives tangible benefits and, as you say, people tend to trust Valve. The tangible benefits are a significant aspect for me, however.
(Compare EA’s download system to Steam, and then consider why people who like Steam like it so much, despite it being DRMy.)
Bit of a quick reply regarding refusing to buy DRM games but still using Steam: for me and for several of my friends, it comes down to a few things. Steam has features and functionality that I’d use even if I didn’t need to, like friends lists and the overlay, server browsers for some games, autopatching, etc. I know what Steam does, and I know when a game does and does not require it, as opposed to some other DRM solutions that install on my machine without my knowledge and do god knows what. If I choose to remove Steam from my machine, it’s gone, it isn’t still lurking in the depths of my system waiting to cause unforseen problems. And it just doesn’t really do anything to hurt my experience in any significant way; my gaming machine is online at all times anyway, and on the one or two occasions I’ve used the offline mode it’s worked fine even when it wasn’t set up ahead of time.
Bottom line, I did answer that I avoid buying games with DRM, and that I buy games with Steam. Maybe that’s a bit of a contradiction within the terms of this poll, but it conveys the message that I want to send to developers and retailers. Be transparent and honest, don’t screw up my gaming experience in any significant way, provide documentation about what your product and it’s DRM do, and give me added value for my dollar, and I’ll happily consider your game even with DRM. Try to be sneaky about it, screw up my gaming experience, make me waste my time searching for information on your DRM solution, and give me absolutely nothing in terms of extra value, and you can go fly a kite. I won’t pirate your game, but I won’t buy it either. I don’t care how good it is, and I’m not interested in sob stories about how the industry is failing and PC gaming will end if I won’t be suckered into installing some fucked up rootkit or whatever on my machine. I work hard for my spare cash, and if you want some of it then you can give me what I want. If not, there are other publishers who will.
The survey is too limited to express a proper opinion on Steam. I use it regularly but am under no illusion that I am doing anything other than paying for a long term rental which I can neither sell/trade/lend or even use full stop when my wife has decided to play Peggle on the laptop.
while the limited activations of anno 1404 tages system is admittedly straight from the devil’s asshole, has anyone else noticed that the tages drm seems to be *so far* working?
when a big pc game i’m interested in is released, i usually check to see how long before it’s cracked and leaking like a perforated slug all over the internet. (a morbid curiosity, i actually pay for my games).
i’m sure you can google this intrigue yourselves, but it’s been a week and a number of the big cracking superstars have already admitted defeat. the comment sections of certain sites make for particularly delicious reading.
too soon to call a victory for sure. but for a game like this to put up a fight for this long against such a concentrated effort (and due to it’s “10’s of thousands of small checks throughout the game” is uncrackable by conventional methods) is surely worth something noting.
the 3 activation limit is surely to prevent local piracy, i doubt ubi even in their wildest dreams thought tages would be this affective.
I’m one of the hardcore anti-DRM people. If a game has DRM I pirate it. If it has no DRM then I buy it, even if I’m only remotely interested. Of course, this means I pretty much only buy Indie Games anymore. :(
For the Steam lovers… launching TF2 on a Quad-Core machine running off a 4-drive striped RAID array takes 45 seconds from when I double click TF2 shortcut on my desktop until TF2 actually shows up as a process in task manager. That time is spent launching Steam (which I don’t leave running since it hordes 100MB+ of RAM) and then validating my copy of TF2. This doesn’t even count the time taken for TF2 to actually do it’s own loading process. If that isn’t intrusive DRM I don’t know what is. It’s worse than 45 seconds of unskippable intro videos.
You’re running a machine of that caliber and you’re sweating 100mb of ram?
If I let every program I ever installed to launch on startup and sit around eating 100MB of RAM whether I was using it or not I would have no RAM left to even run a web browser.
I think the best question would be, “How many people bought a game because they were unable to pirate it.”
one person every five posts judging by the mininova comment section.
Very recent example for me happened yesterday: I was going to buy Emerald City Confidential but then, after some help reading, realized it had online authentification and limited reinstalls. Great thing since I’m about to go on vacation at my parents’ and the one computer that can run the game (XP required) is not connected to the Internet. That’s not encouraging :|. I’m holding my purchase until they release a boxed DRM-less version.
As long as pimply virgins keep stealing the cash from these corporations, I think they have every right to initiate attempts to protect profit. How many people have actually run into problems with limited activations anyway? I bet people who whine are the same sort of lose who calls them self an anarchist yet pays their taxes like the rest of us. Little b*stards!
@John: Whooooah, who’s stealing cash?
Yes, the corporations obviously have the right to protect their profits. But we also have the right to not buy their product.
And if the way they “protect profit” is by lowering the value of the product (while keeping the same prices), then that does not encourage people to buy the game. And a game that can be activated 3 times is less valuable than one you can play forever.
In most industries, it is accepted that the way to encourage people to buy your product is to give you more for your money. Apparently, in the games industry, it is commonly thought that giving you *less* is a better approach.
Ultimately, the best way to avoid being robbed is to close your shop entirely. That is pretty much the way DRM is trying to go. Rather than encourage people to pay for the game, they try to discourage people from getting it for free. Which is fine, if you’re willing to end up with zero customers. If you want a nonzero income, you need to work on the other half, actually making your product worth buying.
I’ve purchased several games simply and only because they came without copy protection. Sins of a Solar Empire, while I’m sure is a great game, is something I’ll probably never play just because I don’t have time. But I bought it because it comes from a great publisher who ships without copy protection. My copy is still sealed – I bought it to support a company which does good for the customer.
I’ve lost 2 DVD burners to Starforce, so no longer install (or even buy) games with Starforce. I don’t care what the company says, I lost one drive 2 days after installing a Starforce “protected” game, then after a complete system reformat and reload, lost another DVD burner 2 days after I installed the same game again. No longer will I install that game. :(
I bought Bioshock before I knew it had copy protection. Still have a sealed collector’s edition for the PC that I set aside once I found out about that. Now when possible, I buy via Impulse, Steam, Reflexive, Big Fish, etc., or I buy independent games direct from the creators.
I was fine with CD checks–until Civ 4. I couldn’t get the game to start consistently on two different laptops. I finally broke down and used the cracks to get it started.
I think it’s a heat issue. If I’d just booted up, I could usually get it to work without any hassle. If the laptop had been running for a while, it usually wouldn’t work. Wouldn’t be such a problem on my desktop, but then again I don’t play the game on my desktop.
I’m ambivalent about Steam. I’ve had far fewer problems with them, but I am leery of what happens when they stop supporting old games, get bought or sold or go out of business.
As this is the public place where I poured out my tale of woe, it’s only fair to note that as of yesterday my Steam account is working. Two weeks ago I threatened to damn the torpedoes and execute chargebacks on all of my previous purchases, but I suspect that’s coincidental. Yesterday they gave me a phone number, I arranged a conference call with the bank, and the mistake was (at least provisionally) cleared up in a half hour. The person in Valve’s dispute department, who I didn’t realise at the time was almost certainly the same one who had left me twisting in the wind for five months, was kind enough in person to give me the benefit of the doubt and unlock my account without me asking. Assuming GlobalCollect, Valve’s credit card payment processor, acknowledges their mistake I appear to have access to all my stuff again.