Eurogamer conducted a live interview with Mr Tim Schafer this afternoon. You can read the results over here, but a couple of points more pertinent to our fields are highlighted below. The major headline would be: Brutal Legend definitely isn’t coming to PC, despite all our mewling and whining. There’s also some interesting comments about his thoughts on the potential for a Grim Fandango sequel.
So this will probably be the last time we’ll crowbar a reference to Brutal Legend onto the site. Our plan at first was to just assume it would be annouced for PC so nonchalantly that Double Fine would assume they’d made this decision at some point and get on with it. Then it turned to pleading. But when directly asked during the EG live chat, he confirmed it would not:
Gurrah asks: I’ll keep it short: No PC version, why? I’m sad.
Tim Schafer: Well it’s really an action game, that when you play it you’ll see that it was meant to be on a console.
My question is, ‘Why all the hate for consoles?’ If you hate consoles, that means you hate Katamari Damacy, Okami, ICO, and you are in fact a bad person. A bad person who should send all their hate mail to Eurogamer and not to me.
Super Moderating Hero: Cheeky! Will there ever be a PC version? Is there hope?
Tim Schafer: We are really focused on the Xbox 360 and PS3 version right now.
It’s perhaps not the most fortunate reply. While we recognise that some games just are built around a gamepad, and don’t map to mouse/keyboard in a way the developer can support, it would have been perhaps more tactful to explain it like that. There’s no question that PC fanboys have made a loud and unpleasant sound around the subject, and reading through such vitriol and hate can’t have endeared anyone at the developer to considering a port. But such loud-mouthed morons are by far in the minority amongst those who hoped the game would be coming to their chosen platform. I’m sure those who simply don’t own 360s or PS3s would prefer not to be lumped in with the haters. We entirely agree with Schafer’s remarks – people who hate glorious console games are rubbish-faces. They’re just not representative of most PC gamers.
However, let’s not get worked up. The reality is, Brutal Legend is not for PC, which is a shame. The lessons here are: If you believe something enough in your heart it isn’t any more likely to happen, and wanting something enough isn’t enough. And fairies aren’t real.
Later Eurogamer asked how Tim would feel if someone were to remake something like Grim Fandango. It’s awesome to see the passion he still has for the game in his reply.
Super Moderating Hero: Would you like Telltale to remake any other of the games you had a hand in? What about Grim Fandago? Is that a decision you have a say in?
Tim Schafer: I don’t have any say in that, really, since I don’t own that properly. Even though I like those guys, anybody but me making a Grim Fandango game would really make me very sad. Whenever I hear a rumor about someone making Grim 2, I literally can’t sleep that night.
Hard to explain. I feel a very personal connection with those games. That’s one of the main reasons I started Double Fine. So I could have a say in what was done with the characters and worlds we make up. And so with Psychonauts or Brutal Legend, if anything happens with those stories, you know it will come from us!
You can read the rest of the interview here.
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Wow. Thread explosion!
I’d say to everyone to chill out. Yes, I am disappointed that the game won’t be on the PC, and no, I never owned a console (other than an Atari 2600 back in the days).
But Schafer is clearly just kidding with his remarks. It’s very much his style of humor.
“My question is, ‘Why all the hate for consoles?’”
Yeah, PC gamers? Why do you hate America?
I’m pretty disappointed by Tim’s answer to EG… Grim Fandango is my absolute favorite game ever and I’ve been playing MI in my Amiga500 when they first came out.
The thing is, I have never owned a console, going from Amstrad6128 to my current MacPro, and don’t intend to. It’s just a wrong investment hardware-wise imho, while my closest mate owns every console ever being produced. I’ve spent many hours playing beat em ups and footballl games there, but I prefer other game types really.
When I first saw the game’s trailer, I loved it for the theme, as I was a metalhead in my teens (15 years ago) and we were even playing Motorhead at Amiga back then (anyone remember that awful game?). The thing is, I also thought “damn, I’ll really have to play this button-mashing thing for the humor and the story?”.
I’ve shown the trailer to two buddies, with both having the same response, being raving mad about it and loving it. One is the aforementioned console owner, who’d go buy it the day it got released. I’d buy it as support for the Tim, as I can’t forget all the hours of gaming excellence he gave us. The other pc-gaming friend though, even if more excited about it than me, would definitely pirate it.
And that can be a publisher’s problem. Hell, up to a few years back, I’ve never bought a game myself. It obviously was financial reasons and now that I can afford it, I spend a lot on games. Consider EA’s target audience for such a metal-themed Jack Black-starring action game, though; it’s teenage gamers. Those that mostly own consoles and would pirate the game if they had access to a PC…
Remember how close Tim’s studio was to losing their hard work when their previous publisher dumped the game, even if they had already invested a pretty hefty sum on it. Perhaps EA was the one responsible for pushing the release on the PC platform months back, to avoid losing the sales for the first months when the game would be hot.
Tim’s response is still puzzling me, though. I can’t really swallow he believes action games are for consoles only. As many who posted here mention, what are FPS then? (And they’re a lot more heavy on action than any Devil May Cry). A joypad (as we called the back then) is available for PCs since the day of Genesis (the Sega one) and in the late 80’s PC joysticks were a lot better for action games than the NES pads…
So, even if he says so, it’s only an excuse. Which I though pre-programmed PR only threw at us, undermining our intellect. I’d never see it coming from Tim, but I’m not one who likes the I idea of martyrdom. It’s his job making games, he has to live by it and gives work to a whole bunch of people in his studio. Since I enjoyed all his games, he’s also good at what he does. If saying that bs is forced on him by his publisher for them to keep on making their games, I don’t expect him to cry out he’s “legally bound” or “there’s no fundiing for PC dev” and lose it all.
It’s up to us PC gamers to support our own platform. Most here on the RPS community are buying their games but that’s not the staple for PC gamers at all. I honestly believe that 90% of PC gamers pirate their games. And even with Pirate Bay closing down, piracy won’t stop for it was there years before peer-to-peer technology, and now will move on to VPN.
I guess this will turn out to be a post irrelevant to the article, so I’m gonna stop here…
Oh, and no – I haven’t abandoned the PC. It’s still my primary platform of choice if a game is multiplatform, and I was up way too late last night playing Sword of The Stars, which is very much PC-exclusive and probably the best 4x I’ve played since Master Of Orion 2.
Oh well. Every game that is denied a PC version, is one more game I no longer need be concerned about. And yeah, maybe action games are a little bit more suited to gamepad control systems, but really not by that much, especially considering that it’s not that hard to buy a gamepad for your PC.
So at the base of it all I still think this is an economic decision rather than anything else.
But like I said, theres plenty other games heading for PC, that, and if I want to play a really good game, I go back to the games made a few years ago because frankly, somewhere along the last few years I think the games industry has lost something. It now seems to suffer from the obsession with action and glamour that the film industry does, and suffers for it.
Maybe I should go back and replay Baldur’s Gate, for example, or Deus Ex, or Anachronox, or any other of a large number of games that weren’t afraid to be slow and contemplative for even a second. Now those were good games.
I have to admit that I don’t know who is this guy. This is the creator of monkey island or something? I was never much into monkey island. The day of the tentacle whas more my thing.
I tried installing the demo of psychonauts in a few different computers, because I have read good things about the game. But It failed to run, so I have not buy the game.
Making games for consoles seems a good business decision. Theres probably a bigger market, and you can make the games more expensive, and theres probably less piracy.
Making games for consoles withouth a PC version seems a good tecnical decision. Making a engine run on different architectures may mean sacrifice speed here, quality here, etc. Mostly because the consoles hardware don’t have much RAM, and have to load almost everything from a mechanical / optical device. On the PC you have a harddisk, where things can load faster and you can prepare things in a optimal way… If you wish. A engine designed for one architecture, will probably run poorly on the other. I have ear that a XBox have only 512 MB of RAM. I have more ram in 6 years old pendrives here. My PC have only 4 GB, because I don’t want to use a 64 bits OS yet. But 8 GB seems more like with the time (and I have usb pendrives with more RAM). Xbox 360 is running on peanuts, cocos and bananas put togueter with duct-tape. But I digress.
What I mean is that seems a logical tecnical and bussines decision.
I don’t see what is the fuss about it.
Good designers move to consoles? others will demoed his quality. There are, probably, enough talented people out here. Let other people show us how good are.
The dumbplane of consoleizombification can have our oldes designers. Much like a elephant graveyard.
Wow… i really wanted to play this game… All those rockin dudes and the hell and the music… darn. another game that passes on by without me buyin or playin it.
Sorry for the bunch of typos and other mistakes, but I can’t edit my post.
(wordpress is what you use RPS? just to know what to avoid…)
“And fairies aren’t real”
You’ve never been clubbing in Brighton, eh?
Tai, he also made Day of the Tentacle.
What a shame (about both this news and the astonishing level of ill-directed vitriol in these comments, I’d be with Okami on this one if console fanboys weren’t as bad).
This thread is WAY too long to read so I’m not sure if this has been said BUT…
I like Tim Schafer. He’s done some great things. DOTT and Grim Fandango are two of my favourite games and titles I continually return to.
Anyone who kept up with the development diaries of Psychonauts knows how much pressure they were under to deliver a commercially viable product and get it out. For every month you spend tinkering with another platform port you are not accruing any income. This is an extremely expensive business and the studios that really care and produce a finished title (as not all do on release) should be supported.
With the added pressure of losing their initial publisher, getting a new one and being sued by the first surely doesn;t help matters.
I /am/ disappointed. It didn’t look like my kind of game but I’m interested in supporting Tim Schafer and probably would have bought it down the line if there was a PC version. I don’t have a console and don’t intend on buying one anytime soon.
But just let the guy get his game out. We won’t be holding our breath for a PC port and maybe he’s right. Maybe it just isn’t cost effective to produce a PC game that won’t sell in the right numbers.
Having said all this he should have known better to brush the PC audience off like that. Lack of resources and marketability would have been a tough answer but a more honest one.
I am reminded of the (sarcastic) comments made by Yahtzee in one of his rants on pc gamers vs. console gamers
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7664/45617314zi1mu6copypp8.jpg
@Larington:
Man, Baldur’s Gate was slow and contemplative? I must have missed that while playing it for 27 hours straight once, heh.
But although you make a good point, even as an action title Brutal Legend has the potential to be different than all the cookie cutter action games, so that’s the worst part for not porting it.
Yeah, it’s a shame.
Comparatively, they are, a lot of earlier games weren’t high pressure scenarios, games where you could pause them or simply weren’t time intensive. It seems like the never ending search for fun in game design, in making sure that the player is having the most fun and excitement possibly at any given moment has pushed that to the wayside.
As for the economic reasons, I’d say it’s just safer to make games for a console, never mind piracy or installed user-bases, it’s easier to be sure that your game will actually work on the system. Big business is all about risk mitigation afterall and
And I ended the last sentence badly… Proof reading ftw.
Right, I’m off to buy an xbox.
@gulag. If you do that, I will stop to be your friend.
Also look at that (I stolen this image to Rinox)
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7664/45617314zi1mu6copypp8.jpg
We are the master race!, we play with computers, not puny toys. :-)
So gamers who play only on consoles are GOOD gamers (why they need a PC?)
BUT gamers who only play on PC are “elitist” (consoles are the only true way to play videogames).
¬¬
What a piece of crap!!
I hope many more producers follow this example and they keep their action stuff away from PC.
More room for simulations and wargames.
And i hope proto-bullshit doesn’t sell.
Here’s my opinion: Why can’t they just unify the freaking development architecture and program for everything at once? I’m sure there’s a legitimate reason, I’d just like to know what it is so I can stop thinking that Microsoft and Sony are stoopid.
@SinOk: I don’t think he mean that. I think he mean something like “If you like good battles. You must like Megatron vs Optimus, even If you are not into big robots. Your distaste for big robots sould not make you hate what is itself a good fight”.
Katamari damacy is a original gameplay, and lots of fun. It also a very creative “world”. Is probably universal fun. Is on the history book of gamming. ( note: theres a PC clone called “The Wonderful End of the World” but is not as brilliant as katamari).
It’s a smart business decision.
Whilst I do think that piracy for the most part is a zero-sum game, where the vast majority of those who pirated the game would have never had the intention of buying the game in the first place and thus don’t actually cost the company any lost sales, is true for the most – I think certain titles are more vulnerable to piracy than other ones.
Par example; a mostly single player driven game with a well cultivated, somewhat obsessive and techsavy fanbase.
This core audience will generally want to play the game as soon as it comes out and piracy can be prevented mostly by releasing it on consoles and encouraging most fans to purchase there.
Schafer is one of the best designers and story tellers in the medium and for pundits and web-dwellers to be lamblasting him for a legitimate and (I would argue) sensible business decision is highly unfair.
That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was just being closed lipped on the pc version, to further encourage the borderline fans to buy it on the consoles and prevent them holding out for a possible PC release if they expect it to come. Clever PR? Maybe.
Eitherway, I wouldn’t be wholly surprised to see Brutal Legend on Steam or something within 12 months.
I thought Tim Schafer was immune to sequelitis that has ravaged the industry like an aging whore with many STDs. Part of the reason why I love his games is that he comes up with amazing new ideas every time, rather than cashing in on Grim 17: Return to Bonecity or whatever.
Reading what he said, I suspect he simply wants to control his own creations, rather than explicitly looking to make sequels. This is what I hope, anyway.
Ugh, naming all pc gamers console haters? I don’t own a console nor do I have the intention of buying one. Why would I, I still have tons of games to play on my PC.
It’s sad to see the old masters of PC gaming turn into console only developers. Nothing wrong with developing for the console but at least make a PC port for your old fans.
sigma83
Microsoft is trying to do just that, they’re trying to turn us into the flat-brained zombies you’d love to be… games that are equally good for ALL, players treated like a single herd of sheep.
But I hold on to my unique tastes, my niche genres, so i want more wargames, adventures, rpg’s and all those other games that a console gamer will never enjoy, and the invasion of action-games on PC would weaken the niches for your beloved massified flat-headed gaming fascism.
There isn’t anything inherently wrong with sequels. They build upon the milieu of the prior work and can thus deliver a deeper experience. THe problem is that most sequels tend to be crap because they are developed for the sake of creating a sequel rather than a burning need by the creators to continue the story.
In my opinion the concept of a console as a whole is going to die in the next decade or so as devices continue to unify. The lines between media centers and consoles and computers will blur until they all fuse together.
Sigma@
the Wii says hi.
PC is the unified platform, the corporations cant monetise that, consoles will be dragged into the future I’m afraid, exclusives with them.
Here’s something for them to monetise: Awesomeness.
It’s a shame to see this; publishers seem to have this idea that if people like a particular game, they will go out and buy a console to play it.
“I hate the consoles because I love freedom.”
“Hate” is too strong a word, but “freedom” is precisely why I prefer PC games. I’m certainly not a console hater – I have 2 of them – but I’ll buy a title on PC rather than console as I know I can play the game anywhere (on my desktop or on my laptop travelling), the game itself will look better as technology progresses and of course it can be modded or tweaked to your needs. This is probably why I have only 2 full-price games(*) on XBox (one of which I bought 2nd-hand) while I’ve bought 13 games on PC in the past 3 months alone. And if a game is console-only, I’m probably more likely to not buy it at all than buy it just because it’s not on PC.
P.
(*)Mainly use the Xbox for streaming media from the PC and playing XBLA games such as Carcassonne and Gauntlet. 2 full-prices games are Halo 3 (shit) and Crackdown (still haven’t managed to getting around to playing it).
Holy retardedness. There is mad, mad things going on in this thread. People need cold showers and furious bitchslaps in equal measure. Apparently some need hugs also.
Tim Schafer can do wtf he wants. And i’m glad he does. What i’m confused about is why people, as gamers, don’t own both a PC and a console of their choosing if they are so god damn hard core about it. A 360 costs less than a decent graphics board these days. If you want the option to play a game, get the platform for it. You’d upgrade your system for a game you want to play, this is no different.
He doesn’t owe you shit, and you don’t owe him this kind of badmouthery. Some of the things people are saying here is HARROWING reading.
For a small company like Double Fine it is only reasonable to target first and foremost the consoles. PC is harder to manufacture for and sell on. Even tiny ol’ Briad was first released on XBox.
BUT if they have gone to the trouble of supporting both XBox and PS3 why didn’t they do an extra leap and do a general purpose engine so they can put it on PC and maybe Wii too?
I really want the id tech 5 to deliver what it promised: compilation to all major platforms from the same code base, so that all devs use it and they throw all this console-vs-pc nonsense away!:)
Sunjammer:
Agreed. Why is it so wrong to buy a platform to play THAT kind of games? Unification harms the niches.
“What i’m confused about is why people, as gamers, don’t own both a PC and a console of their choosing if they are so god damn hard core about it. A 360 costs less than a decent graphics board these days. If you want the option to play a game, get the platform for it. You’d upgrade your system for a game you want to play, this is no different.”
Euh, I’d say buying a console is more of a downgrade. ;) Again, I am not buying it for one game and yeah, excuse me for not seeing many other interesting console-exclusive titles on the horizon (or in a console’s back catalogue), especially not on the Xbox360.
There is no way Brutal Legend is as finicky as a Devil May Cry 4 or any another Capcom title that according to its console fanbase is supposedly not fit to play with keyboard+mouse controls (leaving that option out is the easy way out of course for the devs and a great way to make sure your console port won’t sell on PC). Action games are not a taboo on PC, some folks don’t want to understand that apparently.
The bad thing about living a dystopia where corporations rule about what you can do, and what you can’t do (consoles) is that some people don’t even miss freedom.
It seems, If all your life has been a slave, freedom is a alien thing to you, and you don’t miss it.
But I am mostly like a bushman, I need the open sky, and the freedom to go anywhere and do anything I want.
Also consoles are gameplay from 1986. I have already played all the games of that year. I don’t like that tired and obsolete gamming style, with savepoints, and a poor control scheme. Life is much better with a hard disk to make infinite quicksaves, a keyboard (any keys you want, withouth complicated ‘combos’) and a mouse (exact precission control). Is 2009 gameplay. And you can’t have it on the consoles.
Most console games still play like freakin “arcade saloon” machines, penny arcade machines.
The next generation of consoles will be different, as hard disk will be mandatory. But this one is horrible.
Oh here we go again, the same old tiresome consoles vs PC arguments, yawn.
Yes there are some great console games of which there is no reason why there shouldn’t be a good PC port of them. At the same time there are also plenty of great PC games that could but don’t make the trip over to the consoles.
There is no one format that has all the games, and it’s always been like this. If you want to play a decent variety of games, then you have to invest in more than one gaming platform. Fact of life right now, sorry.
@ Sunjammer:
While I agree with Schafer not owing any of us anything, I would like to reply to your question why ‘hardcore’ gamers (dreadful as the term may be, most of us here fall under it I guess) don’t own both a PC and a console of our choosing.
The answer is: because I don’t have the money to reasonably spend on both a PC and consoles. PC being my primary platform, I’d have to buy an Xbox 360 for games like Mass Effect (on release), a PS3 for a game like Heavy Rain, etc etc. I can’t afford a PC and one console, let alone 2 or 3. :(
Have a 360, but it’s rarely used now a days. I found that I really like sitting by my PC and playing. Much more so than in my couch by my TV. It’s my preferred way and it would’ve been swell to play Brütal Legend like that too. Well it’s probably not his decision anyway, so I don’t think people should be so hard on him, even though his answer could’ve been worded better (I thought ArmA 2 was an action game) :)
The only thing that could make this more controvertial is saying it’s because of RAMPANT PIRACY ON THE PC PLATFORM!
I’m a “hardcore” PC gamer with a wii and a DS as well.. (and xbox, gamecube, n64, gameboy advance sp, snes, nes, gameboy/colour if we are counting..).
So, yeah.
The DS is great when you are waiting to respawn in your chosen PC game :)
I love games.
I don’t think there’s any need to qualify that statement by tying it to platforms. If a game was awesome for a fucking Casio digital watch, I’d want to play it. I just happen to have the most experience and knowledge on the PC and use it as my primary gaming platform.
Anyway: FEEEED THE WORRRRLLLD, MAKE IT A BETTER PLAAACCCE! FOR YOU AND FOR MEE AND THE ENTIIIREEEE HUMAN RAAAACCCEE!
Oh hell, I’ll throw my two penneth in, even though it’s a mere echo of virtually all that’s been said.
Far too many posts seem to confirm Tim’s view of blind fanboy hate. The lack of creativity in console games really grates as its patently false. Creativity is employed across all formats under varying constraints. Any ‘best of’ list whether judged on creativity, quality or any mix of criteria will include all formats.
I’ll admit that pad support alone allows the PC to host Brutal Legend, though the old arguments about pads vs keyboard is rubbish. Pad is better when you want 2 or more analogue inputs for your game and mouse and keyboard dont cut it. Keyboard is good when you need high speed screen navigation i.e. pointer and a large number of discrete digital inputs available at any given moment i.e. better than pads need for sub menu’s to provide alt functions for limited amont of buttons. It just depends on the game’s design as to what is needed / what is best.
Tim only says they are focused on consoles at the moment, as many have noted, this doesnt rule out a PC conversion (possibly with improvements) later.
Surely live and let live is the best policy.
“There isn’t anything inherently wrong with sequels. They build upon the milieu of the prior work and can thus deliver a deeper experience. THe problem is that most sequels tend to be crap because they are developed for the sake of creating a sequel rather than a burning need by the creators to continue the story.”
I agree that many games do well with sequels – Empire is a far richer game than Shogun, for example (it’s also based around a different time). But yeah, I don’t see much need for, say, Raz, to continue his story. It seems like Schafer’s desire is to prevent other people doing this, rather than so that he can do it himself.
I don’t think a console-only release is necessarily a bad thing. I’d rather have a good game on a format I don’t own than a broken mess of cross-platform development on one I do. Plus, a 360 is under £200, with the cheapest one being close to £100, so I may well splash out if this turns out to be good.
I don’t think the cry of “release on PC!” is a platform fanboyism thing. People want to play good games without having to buy new machines, is all.
wee_____@@___woo!
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@Gap Gen: Agree very much. :-)
meh that went wrong, any hoo calm down fellas its only a game