By Kieron Gillen on July 6th, 2009 at 8:25 pm.
It’s the big mod release of the moment, and it’s stylish enough to be worth a post. Running off the Source engine, NeoTokyo is a class-based team-orientated shooter with one eye staring longingly at their Ghost in the Shell box-set and the other at their Akira deluxe edition. Which makes you hope they’ve shelved it together, otherwise they’re going to be going all googly-eyed. You can download it from a mass of mirrors and you’ll find its incredibly elegantly done trailer beneath the cut.
Though to be critical a little here – it’s elegantly done, but it tells us jack all about the game other than “we have more idea of style than the majority of mainstream PC developers”. While that’s a great thing to do, you really should say why someone should care about the game more than its production values. It took me a far too many clicks around their site to actually find any actual features of the game (Class-based high-tech abilities like active camoflage and alternate vision, XP-system, squad-management systems), y’know?
So… let’s do their job for them. Who’s played it? What do you make of it?
06/07/2009 at 20:35 Fat Zombie says:
I have. It’s rather good. It’s a round-based game, sort-of like Counter Strike.
Slightly more tactical, though, I think. And pretty. I enjoyed it.
06/07/2009 at 20:38 Hunam says:
It’s a bit like CS, but without the money system. It’s slower than most FPS and it has the CS style rounds with a single life in them. XP is awarded for capping the ghost (flag), killing dudes and staying alive, more XP you get the more weapons you get to choose from.
It’s rather tactical, almost Rainbow Six tactical for a comparison of speed of gameplay.
06/07/2009 at 20:45 Dominic White says:
It’s too much like CS. They took Ghost In The Shell (which is very much a non-dystopian near future cyberpunk setting) and used that as a framework for map design, but then used almost none of that in the actual gameplay.
If they’d actually used the setting properly, players would be able to choose just how heavily augmented their characters are, gaining advantages, but balanced out vulnerabilities to hacking and EMP weapons in turn.
And I know I totally would have played as a hard-boiled pure human cop with a big revolver.
06/07/2009 at 20:47 postmanX3 says:
I am rather underwhelmed.
The only gamemode right now is “Capture the Ghost”, essentially capture the flag with only one flag and a female naked robot torso instead of a flag.
It’s awfully boring, as respawns happen only every round, a la Counter-Strike. Die, wait 5 minutes, die again. Perhaps it’s just my lack of skill, but it still doesn’t make for an exciting pace.
The visions and abilities (or ability, as the camouflage is the only one there is) are boring and nothing new. Night vision is pretty much entirely useless, and the thermal vision is nothing new, nor is it much more useful than the night vision. It does let you see camouflaged enemies, but… Camouflage does jack-diddly. It’s easy to see camouflaged enemies even without thermal vision and it only lasts for a couple of seconds.
There’s very little to distinguish the classes. They all use the same weapon pool (with a few restrictions for lighter classes), not to mention the level-up system means that it can be forever until you get a weapon that’s not just a submachine gun.
In other words: It’s incredibly bland gameplay underlying some pretty art. Albeit, very, very, pretty art… but art can’t make a game fun.
Now, if you’ll kindly excuse me, I’m going to go hide from the inevitable barrage of insults from the decidedly vocal fan base.
06/07/2009 at 20:48 DK says:
Tell me there’s no bunnyhopping or endorsed engine exploits ala “wallhugging” (Dystopia) and I’m in.
06/07/2009 at 20:48 Wazzle says:
It’s a decent game, I haven’t played it enough to really say much, but those who are getting it must know that it is a very slow-paced game. Not boringly slow, but slow in that you can’t even rush in in a Counter-Strike sense; rather, it’s beneficial to hang back and let the others die first to gauge the opposition.
Also, I find it odd that on this website, there is no mention of the official RPS Neotokyo server I played on a couple days ago… unless that server is an imposter.
06/07/2009 at 20:49 eon says:
I disagree with Hunam only because I think it shouldn’t be compared to CS. I’ve ben following the mod for about 4 1/2 years, and the final product is much more elegant, and requires much more finesse than than your everyday FPS. With the right team, you really become immersed in the gameplay, and I think that’s what really sets it apart from your mainstream PC shooter.
06/07/2009 at 20:49 postmanX3 says:
Darn it, I forgot the “/” in the second ““. Now my comment is italic-tastic.
Then again, italics are fun.
06/07/2009 at 20:50 Xercies says:
You had me at “Ghost in the Shell”
06/07/2009 at 20:51 MAccoy says:
i had a fun hour or two playing this game, to win you basicly had to sit down at the enemy camp and slaughter them when they come back with the robotic sexdoll…
its not a bad game….but its not awesome…
and it dont need to be.
06/07/2009 at 20:51 sbs says:
still, ctf with no respawns? sounds bad
06/07/2009 at 20:55 Turin Turambar says:
I am liking. And it’s good precisely because there is no respawns. It’s slow, tactical, with a controlled pace.
It’s not really ctf, sbs. It’s more “take the objective, evacuate to the marked exit point”.
06/07/2009 at 20:55 TychoCelchuuu says:
Fantastic mod. It’s like Counterstrike only much slower with some neat gadgest thrown in. It’s a ton more fun when you play on a server full of friends who all have voice chat, of course. For me it’s the right mix of slow, tactical action with cool future stuff. And it has style out the wazoo.
06/07/2009 at 20:59 Dead Fish says:
It’s an extremely polished mod with a huge amount of content for an initial release. I was quickly reminded of why I didn’t like Counter Strike, though.
This is not a game, that can be played for just 10 minutes on a public server. You are going to die over and over again and spend most of the time watching your teammates (or the ghost’s rack), at least if you suck at CS like me. :/
06/07/2009 at 21:02 S says:
I don’t think I share postman’s hatred for it, but most of the criticisms are accurate. It’s slow, and the rounds are structured like CS, which makes the first hour about the least fun you’ve ever had in a game. It is definitely not CS, though; the combat pace is closer to Infiltration than anything else I can think of (speaking of which, Infiltration really deserves its own post some time; come on, Kieron). It’s slow and quiet with brief bursts of very fast action, and people tend to fall into bits.
The special abilities are not well fleshed out. The cloak is more useful than postman says, but only just. It doesn’t last long enough to do much for sneaking about, but it’s nasty for getting around enemies to hit them when they’re expecting it.
The vision modes are useful for two of the classes, but the scout’s is awful. As it is, people don’t even use the recon much because the stuff that should balance it out hasn’t really been put into the game, and being able to block bullets with your face is more useful than cloaking for an extra five seconds.
The weapon pool isn’t all the same, but it does mostly overlap. I’m surprised at how little the whole thing bothered me, as I fucking hated CS, but the game is close enough to realistic lethality that the differences between weapons are noticeable but far from insurmountable. Tactics and teamwork matter much more, and that’s where the gameplay really shines. The ghost lets you see enemy locations, and the carrier can relay those by voice to teammates. When the game is working (it often doesn’t, especially since the playerbase is entirely new), it really does have its moments.
I think the best thing about it, though, is the atmosphere. It’s much more Ghost in the Shell(: Stand Alone Complex) than it is Akira, and they get the tone of the stealth combat in that very, very right. The art design is pretty good (the models are a bit rough, but mostly well done; the maps are frequently beautiful), and aesthetic experience left quite an impression on me.
It’s far from perfect, but I was really impressed by some of the stuff it does, and hopefully it’ll develop (first release and all). Probably not the seething fanboy you were looking for, postman.
06/07/2009 at 21:04 S says:
Hm. My link didn’t work. Infiltration is at http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net/ , and it’s probably worth a look for anyone interested in a ten year old UT mod with more realistic weapons handling than any other game has ever had. Even Cliffy B loved it.
06/07/2009 at 21:08 Aubrey says:
The characters and gameplay are as not as GITS flavored as I would have liked, but on some maps, rushing with your super jump and stealth camo so that you can backstab half of the enemy team, in what is a very slow and tactical game, is really amazingly fun.
06/07/2009 at 21:16 sideshow says:
its no good. the team is comprised of a bunch of 30-somethings that think they’ve got a new stylish take on what is essentially sloooow counterstrike. the fact that it takes place in neo-tokyo has done little to shape the actual gameplay, its just derivative shooter stuff. also its been in development for like 6-7 years.
06/07/2009 at 21:24 linfosoma says:
I was really hyped about this game, been for a long time.
But I was really disappointed by it really. If feels just like Counter Strike but with slower movement and each unit takes a full magazine to go down.
Not really my style.
06/07/2009 at 21:25 Krondonian says:
It’s a very good mod: the animation, art, vision modes, and mapping are all incredible considering it’s the first release of the mod (the UK2004 version aside). The long development time really shows what can be done with a mod team.
Having said that, I’ve never played Counterstrike, and the only thing I can compare it to is TF2′s Arena mode. I appreciate that it is what it’s accomplished what it aimed for, but I’m not a fan of the tactical style.
A couple of notes; the RPS Server was just the usual TF2 one switched over for a bit (not sure if it still is?) which I played on. I decided if I can’t have fun on the RPS server I’m not going to at all.
The trailer posted up there was done by the same guy who did the incredible Black Mesa ones, plus Zombie Panic Source. All can be found
06/07/2009 at 21:26 Krondonian says:
The videos are here. (http://www.youtube.com/user/monkeyjunkie160) I fail at supersimple html stuff :(.
06/07/2009 at 21:38 suibhne says:
@Dominic White: Togusa or Deckard?
06/07/2009 at 21:42 Dominic White says:
@suibhne – Does it matter? It’s win/win either way.
06/07/2009 at 21:43 JohnArr says:
This was fun on UT2004, is it the same people?
06/07/2009 at 21:46 Chaz says:
Blimey I thought this was another one of those mods that’d frizzled away and died. Shame it’s essentially turned out to be just another CS clone really.
So when’s that Black Mesa mod coming out then? That’s been in development for just about as long as I can remember.
06/07/2009 at 21:47 TariqOne says:
Played a lot of it.
I’m super bad at it, but it’s well done. The maps are largely fun and the details are terrific. The game itself plays like a source multiplayer fps. Which is what it is. The weapons are well done and the gameplay is deliberate and technical. Which again, means I get killed a lot doing my whole run-forward-blindly thing.
IMO, it has some rough spots, grenades are stupidly overpowered, as they often are in these things, and getting shot even once is very often a very bad thing. OTOH, a friend who plays recon (the light, fast class) has complained that unloading a smg clip into a support (heavy armor, slow) player’s face often doesn’t do the job. So YMMV. But I like it.
06/07/2009 at 21:48 Krondonian says:
@JohnArr: Yes, the main folk anyway.
@Chaz: Late 2009, apparently. I’m not holding my breath though.
06/07/2009 at 22:00 OutOfExile says:
I really like it, just takes some getting used to.
06/07/2009 at 22:29 Dodomaster says:
I love it too, but only when your team doesn’t suck.
I like how they implemented the squad system.
The different visions are well done, motion vision for assault makes it easy to spot attackers but not snipers, thermal vision is a good allrounder but can’t see cloaked enemies(I think a lot of people don’t realise this (thermal camo)), the night vision is only usefull is some maps but not worth it.
However people who play the recon class seem to make good use of the detpack(c4) which can kill pretty easy.
Overall I think it’s fairly balanced and fun to play, but then again, it’s not for everyone.
I would’ve liked some stats on the weapons though.
06/07/2009 at 22:34 Sp4rkR4t says:
I lost interest in this mod when it was on UT2004.
06/07/2009 at 22:36 EyeMessiah says:
It didn’t do much for me, but then I’m not really into CS-style multiplayer shooters. Some of the art in the game is gorgeous. The menu screen is very much to my liking, as is the music. The levels are strewn with familiar objects, and I died quite a few times after pausing for a moment to stare at some prop thinking – “Hey isn’t that the XXXX from XXXX? Cool!”.
Some of the mecha-ish models are so nice that its painfully tragic that you can’t interact with them!
Sadly the character models aren’t great looking, and the animation is really pretty stiff – even in the gorgeous trailer.
Gameplay is slow & tac shooterish, but protecting the ghost carrier while they call out the enemy locations using the ghosts uplink ability was certainly fun for a while.
06/07/2009 at 22:37 Dracko says:
Kieron, are you telling me you haven’t simply checked their website?
06/07/2009 at 22:38 Dracko says:
I’m sorry you’re not good at the game, postman. That’s no reason to dismiss what it does well, which is a damn lot.
06/07/2009 at 22:38 Spacegirl says:
Every1 keeps comparing it to CS. It really is not like CS at all except that it is round based. I suppose to ppl who do not like “realistic” weapons and sometimes long respawns, any game like that would just seem like CS. It has many crucial mechanics that CS does not have. Q/E Lean. A sprint that you cant fire during. Right-Click aim/crosshair like CoD. These three simple (and 100% unrevolutionary) things change the gameplay a lot from CS.
Furthermore, The levels are nothing like CS levels, they are more complex and more like R6 or even CoD4 levels. This is for better or worse, because they do take quite some getting used to, whereas CS maps are basically figured out after 2 rounds.
It also very nearly requires voice communication. The “flag” thing, when picked up, allows you to see enemy positions (up to 40m) BUT the enemy can see where you are from anywhere. Picking up the flag and not using your mic is pretty much a death sentence.
I got it when it came out (Friday the 3rd), and was playing it and enjoying it somewhat. Things really came to a head when I played on a server where every1 was talking and coordinating. The whole game really clicked for me and I enjoy it quite a bit now. I can definitely seeing myself playing it at least for another month or two (far more than many games), and then it will be up to the community and devs surrounding the game to keep things going (as is always the case.)
Long post short, if you like tactical fps games this is a very VERY good one. It has numerous small issues, but for a first release mod it’s pretty much an A+.
06/07/2009 at 22:39 billyboob says:
I like the pacing. I think there is a lot more under the surface then first appears. Look out for me on the Oz servers (I’ll be the one taking you down from a dark corner)
Oh and remember if you grab the ghost – UPLINK ftw!
06/07/2009 at 22:40 Wurzel says:
Wow, I remember this being mentioned as a promising mod in PCGamer *just* after HL2 came out, and have heard nothing abut it since. Still, glad to hear it’s finally done, and it looks awesome polished.
Kinda makes you worry about how slowly mods are made these days though.
06/07/2009 at 22:40 Paul_M says:
@suibhne
Well, it wouldn’t be Deckard cus he’s a replicant. Hard boiled though he is pure-human he ain’t :)
06/07/2009 at 22:43 Flappybat says:
For a mod the basics are suprisingly well done even though it clearly wasn’t tested anywhere near enough. There’s real potential for a gem to come out of this in six months if the team can keep going.
Hopefully they can deal with the hard decisions of realising that the teams are visually too similar and a few i
06/07/2009 at 22:48 Wisq says:
The video just screamed “CS with a different backdrop” to me, so it’s interesting to see everyone saying so. Maybe it was how they seem permanently hunched over their weapons, hyper-focused on the gunsights while they shuffle everywhere at high speed.
I actually got quite used to round-style teamplay back in the Action Half-Life days, and for a while afterward, team deathmatch with respawning felt really awkward and artificial, like there was no penalty for dying or something.
Then again, AHL had quick, epic rounds where you could really cheer on your surviving players, and where a single player against an entire team could actually work with skill and a little luck — or at least go out shooting and have fun doing it. That was in large part because you were firing real-world weapons at completely unarmoured targets with reasonably realistic effects, i.e. near-certain death for whoever doesn’t shoot first.
Also, the lack of any indicator to living players that your teammates were dead made for a lot of suspense, teamwork, and the occasional radio call just to see if anyone else is alive.
I gave CS a chance but it never really clicked with me, and I somehow found it actively un-fun — which always struck me as rather odd, considering its mass popularity. As such, I’m instantly wary of any game that walks and talks like CS, even if it touches on things I like, such as cyberpunk, etc.
Speaking of which … I find it interesting that cyborg games never seem to approach cyborg augmentations in the internal, invisible sense these days. Think Denton (versus Gunther) in Deus Ex, or Molly from Neuromancer, or the protagonist in System Shock — or (in most cases) the Major in Ghost in the Shell (versus Neotokyo’s generic grunts with armour and attachments). I guess sci-fi games want the external augs to make their own iconic look, but invisible (yet powerful) mods that let you pass for an everyday person always seemed both more technologically advanced and more empowering than looking like a metal version of the Hulk — in the same way that an ordinary-looking child that can throw cars with his/her mind is scarier than Gordon Freeman with a gravity gun.
Though I guess Prototype comes close, even if it’s not cyber (or punk).
06/07/2009 at 22:53 Serondal says:
I played this before when it first came out a long time ago. why are people acting like this is new? I didn’t really care for it back then but I will give it a chance :P Back when I played it it was super alpha so maybe it has come a long way?
06/07/2009 at 22:58 Serondal says:
@Wisq – I believe there is a mod like that called Dysptoia or something like that. You can get augs and as far as I could see none of them showed up on your character’s body. There were heavier classes that wore more armor but that is just a logical extension. If tiny inplants inside your body are powerful imagine how powerful giant implants all over your body could be with the same level of technology?
06/07/2009 at 22:58 SOVIET says:
It looks gorgeous and the map design/layouts are pretty interesting. The rounds are worthwhile when a team mate has the ghost and is plotting a route to the extraction zone via mic otherwise it gets frustrating fast as you can’t really suceed solo.
Soundtrack is lovely too
06/07/2009 at 23:01 SOVIET says:
Oh and there’s a .pdf manual as well as a page full of the in-game hints that appear at the start of each round
06/07/2009 at 23:04 Greg Wild says:
Stylistically, it’s great.
But the problem? This is the only really noteworthy aspect of the game itself; it doesn’t use this strength for anything more than eye candy. Essentially the mod is pretty much CS with an inferior weapons system and cloaking. There’s no real impression that they’re using the setting for anything more than some (admittedly excellent) level design.
06/07/2009 at 23:09 MrBejeebus says:
Wisq you should look up the mod Dystopia then, its on steam
06/07/2009 at 23:14 Wisq says:
@Serondal: Yeah, played Dystopia, liked it well enough. And I do like the heavy-medium-light balance, with each class being pretty much as mobile as you would expect.
It still fits in the “external” category for me, obviously, but it’s somewhat more justified than most games, given the sorts of crazy stuff those augmentations let you do. Dystopia lets you make huge leaps, turn invisible, etc., but most games these days just seem to use your cyborg-isation as an excuse for why you take a ton of damage to kill, heal it all in seconds, and hear voices in your head.
I suppose it only makes sense to make everyone an anonymous grunt in a (non-massively) multiplayer game, or for bulk enemies in a singleplayer game, since seeing the same face over and over breaks immersion. But for the SP games, I guess I just wish there were more Dentons and fewer Halo marines in today’s games.
06/07/2009 at 23:14 DK says:
“Wisq you should look up the mod Dystopia then, its on steam”
Unless you dislike being severely underpowered if you play it like a proper game instead of a mod by not doing stupid things like “running faster when you’re running at an angle into a wall”.
06/07/2009 at 23:20 Serondal says:
I think the light class in Dystopia doesn’t have any extra augments, most of them are internal things like replacing eye balls to see ivisible people or somehing I don’t remember :P
Treat youself and play some Shadowrun ;)
06/07/2009 at 23:25 Serondal says:
er, extrenal ! sorry. I’m just saying in a world that has internal aguments that make you cyborg why would it not also have external ones ? It is only logical that you get what you pay for. If you want something that lets you jump to the roof of a 3 story building from the street it is porbably going to take a visible augment or some extreme surgery to replace your entire legs with some high tech muscles/bones/skin that can take that kind of stress.
06/07/2009 at 23:28 Wisq says:
@DK: Ah, that’s what you meant by wall-hugging. I had forgotten about that. Yeah, that was a rather stupid decision on the devs’ part. It feels like a developer rebranding an obvious bug as a feature because they’re too damn lazy to care.
On a completely different note, I’ve started wondering — will we ever see a game where walking is (transparently) based on actually manipulating a character’s skeleton, putting the lead foot down and using it as an anchor to pull the body, rather than just slewing the character around and playing a running animation? Where obstacles and balance are handled naturally, walls are just something that stops your foot from going forward, etc.
I imagine the drawbacks (glitches, computational power) far outweigh the benefits (looks great, feels natural?) given today’s technology and engine sophistication, except in certain (very niche) situations. But I just wonder if it’ll ever become worthwhile enough to become a standard in our never-ending push for more realism, at least as far as graphics and physics are concerned.
06/07/2009 at 23:36 Serondal says:
@Wisq Walking is really nothing more than falling forward and catching yourself so I’m guessing it wouldn’t be all that hard to simulate it in a game. It is probably just a lot easier to make an animation instead of having the animation ect generated on the fly based on the real location of the foot versus ground and the texture of the ground ect. Some games like Arm A have pretty realistic feeling walking. It makes it seem like you’re not just skiing around at a certain speed regardless of the world around you.
One of the reasons I loved Tribes was because it threw the entire attempt at realism out the door and just let you REALLY ski around the world :P Then I believe tribes 2 actaully added a ski button which only made thing more complicated. There were some awesome ski only levels in Tribes where the objective was to make it through a giant ski-course without dieing. I need to go download that game :P
06/07/2009 at 23:37 Wisq says:
@Serondal: Yeah, I suppose it’s pretty much a given that if your technology is advanced enough to do something amazing inside someone’s body, you can do it even better if you attach big things to the outside of their body.
I guess I’m just saying I like the “big things in small packages” approach of Deus Ex, say, where you could be having a perfectly normal human-to-human conversation with someone one minute, then leaping a dozen feet in the air, seeing through walls, and auto-detonating incoming missiles the next.
There’s something about that mix of awesome power and everyday-person stealth that I like a lot more than hefting so much metal around that I leave craters when I walk. Both are fun, but the former is a lot easier to identify with, maybe.
The bottom line (IMO) is that almost everything that you would need a mask and goggles for ought to be internal in a world where plugging things into your brain is taken for granted, and armour ought to be a lot less bulky, if not internalised as well. Hence, I guess I’m just saying that seeing these “future warriors” running around looking like slimmed-down versions of today’s special forces feels a little quaint.
06/07/2009 at 23:39 dartt says:
The RPS server you may have played on isn’t official; It’s a community server run by community members. We’ve switched it to NeoTokyo for a little while (it’s usually running TF2) as we thought that there might be some interest in playing it.
Personally, I’ve been having a blast playing it with fellow RPSites. I happen to enjoy the slightly slower pace and CS style 1-life-per-round as it makes everything a little more thoughtful. The class system, vision modes and stealth also add some welcome depth to proceedings as they play off one another to produce some fun strategies (I like creating a cloud of smoke and using thermal vision to pick off enemies through the haze) and the ghost satellite uplink makes for some thrilling cat and mouse games as the enemy team knows exactly where your vulnerable ghost carrier is while the uplink lets the carrier know the position of every enemy within 40m which he can relay to his team mates via voice chat.
Definitely worth checking out if you can round up some buddies who will communicate with you. If the pace is unfamiliar then it may take some patience but it will reward you with some great fun if you stick with it.
06/07/2009 at 23:40 Wisq says:
Oh, and looking down the sights of a gun ought to be unnecessary, too. I mean, imagine how much more physical freedom you have if your sensory augmentations can tell you exactly where your gun is pointing, even while you fire it from the hip. (Not unlike firing from the hip in a video game, really. Unless you’re playing OpFlash / ArmA with crosshairs turned off.)
06/07/2009 at 23:41 Serondal says:
That is a strange thing because the more advanced body armors coming out today are a lot less bulky then old fashioned versions. Dragon scale armor is pretty interesting if you’ve never looked into it. I saw a Future Weapons where they fired every weapon the guy owns at it without effect and then they set off a frag grenade under it and it did not damage the armor (it did destroy the fabric holding the armor together and probably still would have killed the person wearing it or at least really hurt them but it would have protected the most vital organs still)
06/07/2009 at 23:57 Wisq says:
Yeah, seen the dragon scale armor. Also seen the “Baker Batshield”, a new (and stylish) approach to putting a bit of SWAT-level protection in the trunk of regular patrol officers, so they can immediately run in and take out school shooters and the like.
Of course, the ultimate way to protect the vital organs is just not to have any. As I recall from Ghost in the Shell, the Major’s body was fully artificial and pretty much disposable, the only critical bit being the (presumably heavily armoured) brain core.
On that note, I imagine running around collecting the heads of your dead teammates (and enemies?) for reviving, extracting intel, etc., would make for a rather interesting gameplay device. :)
07/07/2009 at 00:39 Serondal says:
I want that game now ! I always want a cyborg brain so I an live countless lives in several diffrent body types and from time to time I can also outsource my brain to control a spider/tank that can cling to walls and has a cute chibbi voice for no reason WHAT SO EVER.
Would be interesting collecting brain cases, holding their owners for ransom (Could you image you’re shot enough to destroy your body. you wake up and realize you’re in a detached head an all you can do is talk and hear and someone is telling you if you don’t transfer X amount of Wulongs in the next 30 minutes from your bank account to theirs they’re going to smash your brain case all over the side walk in front of your children’s school)
07/07/2009 at 00:50 Doc says:
It’s like a cut-down, prettier version of dystopia except with a silly levelling system and groups of serious-faced military types running around to get a chance to fondle half a naked robot.
I’ll stick with Dystopia, thanks.
07/07/2009 at 00:59 MacBeth says:
Serondal – have you read Altered Carbon?
07/07/2009 at 01:13 Kieron Gillen says:
Dracko: Of course I have. That’s why I said I did. Read the post.
(I ended up going to the actual manual to get information, which is ludicrous. Have a look at the About page.
KG
07/07/2009 at 01:19 S says:
I think pretty-and-unhelpful typifies their general approach, be it websites, trailers, or learning to play the game.
07/07/2009 at 01:30 FRIENDLYUNIT says:
Actually I’m surprised how long it took for people to mention Dystopia.
07/07/2009 at 01:58 Rabbitsoup says:
O dear, I have to say I am surprised by the negative responses.
First of all it IS round based so if you don’t like that fair enough just don’t bother.
Second its not CTF its CT G this means that the flag holder has wall hax, an awesome feature as it allows you to call out potions and makes team play a must but also means the main gamepaly mode breaks totally when somone picks it up and types into chat:
07/07/2009 at 01:59 Rabbitsoup says:
WOW I fail at formatting, edit button i miss you ;(
07/07/2009 at 02:02 billyboob says:
dartt: Thanks for the smoke/thermal tip! Hopefully i wont ping too much when i join the RPS server from oz
07/07/2009 at 02:21 Lilliput King says:
Wasn’t a fan straight away, dismissed it as CS with robots, but after a couple of hours I can see it’s nothing of the sort. It’s actually far more refined – a lot more objective-based, and with a far greater emphasis on teamwork due to the “ghost” mechanic. The use of the various gadgets is subtle, but can give you a few seconds advantage if used well, which is all you need in a tac shooter like this. (i.e., the support class’ smokescreen that only he can see through, recon using cloaking ability to get a couple of shots off before he’s noticed, or for sniping)
Postman’s points are exactly what I thought upon giving the mod 20 minutes or so, but I’d advise giving it at least a couple of hours. Obviously not for everyone, but it’s really grown on me.
07/07/2009 at 03:18 Eveningfall says:
I played on a full server yesterday and had some fun. The rounds ended fast so there was not a long wait after I died. I’m not really a fan of the last man standing style though.
07/07/2009 at 03:59 Jazmeister says:
Me and my brother played this in UT2004 and it was great, just the two of us on LAN. Deathmatch + invisibility + gorgeous = win. I hope they can get into the theme a little more, but yeah, I can’t wait to play it on source.
07/07/2009 at 05:00 Maj says:
I played it for a while, and it is jaw-droppingly beautiful, more like a professional game than a mod. The style is unmatched. However, the gameplay needs a lot of work. It plays a lot like Counterstrike, with the Ghost being a sort of “protection” against camping rather than a main focus of gameplay. This type of perma-death gets really boring, though, and the weaker classes would be interesting to play if they didn’t die in one hit, while the stronger support class is really, really slow (e.g. slower than Dystopia’s heavy). I still go with support, since I actually have a chance of killing something in a firefight. Dystopia is still more fun, with the combination of respawns, fast gameplay, unique weapons rather than just a bunch of AR’s, hacking, and interesting objectives rather than just CTF. Now, if they combined these kick ass maps with Dystopia’s gameplay, it would be no contest…
07/07/2009 at 05:04 MultiVaC says:
The implementation of the Ghost is completely ridiculous. It requires you to call out the enemies you see with the mic, so when you’re moving with a guy with the Ghost you’re wondering if he: A) Has a mic B) Isn’t griefing C) Knows how to use the Ghost. If he doesn’t meet all of those criteria, you will be killed and wonder “why didn’t he say anything?”. So when a guy gets the Ghost, all you can do is just pray that he’s actually going to use it. It’s a core gameplay aspect that requires the player to use the mic, which anyone who has ever played an online FPS will tell you is a TERRIBLE idea. They need to have some HUD element that relays the info to the team or squad automatically. Right now most games are won by just killing the other team, which makes the game basically boil down to a reskinned CS:S with a couple extra features.
07/07/2009 at 05:46 Max says:
It’s pretty. It’s Ghost in the Shell meets CS. I like some of the gameplay mechanics. Didn’t like the combat so much.
Playing it made me want to play Dystopia.
07/07/2009 at 05:51 DK says:
“Where obstacles and balance are handled naturally, walls are just something that stops your foot from going forward, etc.”
I want to say GTA 4 does that – or more precisely, Euphoria does that. Not sure though, and it might only be for drunks (a really clever way of using your animation system because it looks clumsy).
07/07/2009 at 06:18 Cedge says:
Dicking around in this with a single friend, one-on-one, is terribly amusing.
Loving this.
07/07/2009 at 07:45 KP says:
It’s pretty fun. The rock-paper-scissors with the cloaking and vision modes is a cool concept.
07/07/2009 at 08:38 Crane says:
I wish I could bring myself to like it, I really do.
But:
Motion Vision > Thermal Vision > Night Vision.
Don’t tell me NV is useful for hiding in corners either; true it’s better than nothing, but not as good as either of the others.
Leaping as recon only carries you horizontally, so it’s not that useful on most maps.
Most of the weapons are variants on the same theme, just stronger/weaker, and the unlock system leads to the whole snowball effect, where a stronger team gets better weapons, making it easier for them to win again and agin.
The leaning/aiming are clumsy and poorly implemented: aiming only happens when you LET GO of the button, rather than when you depress it, and leaning involves no lateral motion at all, but instantly skews your view sideways. Also, the knife animation is jerky and awkward.
On at least one map, the one set on the rooftops, it’s possible to knock the ghost into the streets below, where it will remain for evermore, because the devs didn’t provide for that.
The levels are beautiful, but never seem to be very well designed: they’re not AWFUL, but they tend to either be a disorganised mess of far too many rooms (much like a real location), or a nigh-linear path with spawnpoints at either end.
It really is a lovely looking game, and the artists and level designers deserve credit for making such beatiful looking environments and weapons, and capturing the feel of the source material so well. Unfortunately, the gameplay designers weren’t quite so talented.
07/07/2009 at 08:38 DSX says:
Funny story; in high school and college I drove a 1971 Sedan DeVille, and stuck a grateful dead sticker in the rear window in homage to that song. It was the party barge car ever, 12 mpg and a Violent Femmes tape perma-stuck in the deck so it played if the radio was turned on and repeated endlessly for months till I could afford to swap it out for a new radio.
07/07/2009 at 08:41 toni says:
it’s counter strike bombing run with a few gadgets, visuals are good, gameplay is 8years old……goodbye
07/07/2009 at 08:48 Dominic White says:
On a more positive tangent, anyone who even vaguely likes cyberpunk owes it to themselves to watch the Ghost In The Shell TV series. While the films were good, the TV show (which is set in a different continuity, so you don’t have to be familiar with the setting) is fantastic.
It’s pretty much Neuromancer as a detective/spy show. It also has philsophizing tanks.
07/07/2009 at 09:04 Crane says:
Seconding that, Dom.
Stand Alone Complex is far, far better than the movies.
07/07/2009 at 09:14 destroy.all.monsters says:
I always wondered why there wasn’t a cyberpunk MMO that was decent. Tried Neocron for a bit and it just didn’t seem all that interesting. Loving all the side commentary by Wisq and Serondal.
An in-depth GITS SAC game would be lovely.
07/07/2009 at 09:16 pepper says:
Downloading right now, il just jump in without expecting anything. usually works best with most mods.
07/07/2009 at 09:24 destroy.all.monsters says:
Yet for some odd reason Oshii is the one considered the genius at Production IG and not Kamiyama. I don’t get it.
Not only are the arcs and characters fascinating just like life there are few definitive outcomes and lots of vagaries.
07/07/2009 at 09:53 Benny says:
It’s a tricky one really. I’ve been really enjoying this mod the past few days but i can see people’s reasons for not liking it.
I feel the pace and structure of the gameplay is more akin to Rainbow Six than CS. The reliance on teamwork, can also be hit and miss on public servers. The few servers i did play on, once i started talking away other people start chipping in on their mics and responding to calls and suddenly the whole game opens up, the ghost carrier starts calling compass directions (rather than his left/right etc)
The camo can work really really well, but it’s not a game breaker thanks to motion vision, just a really nice tool which you pop just before poking your head around a corner, or trying to rush past a hot spot and sneak around the enemy.
Support and their smoke grenades/thermal vision combo can be devastating. I’ve seen cases of a support smoke grenading the other team’s position completely blocking their vision, with Assualts ready to pick off people who try and camo and run out.
I’m finding Recon a bit lacking but i was assured by one of the guys in a server (who was a playtester i believe) that the sprint hop can open up areas that only the Recon can get to making those annoying rooftop camp sites their place. Coupled with the fact they can get away from a firefight if they need to, hit and run almost, alot faster than any other class. Their night vision feels kinda useless tho compared to the other modes.
I personally play Assualt, as im not exactly the super sneeky type but don’t like the slow speed of the heavy. But i do find motion vision is the most powerful of the three, letting some people to camp and wait (of course one smoke grenade fucks all that up, so there are ways around it)
Overall a very nice, polished (for a first release) mod with some good takes on the classic tactical shooter-esq gameplay. It’s flaws are in not explaining itself, or the basic tactics and gameplay mechanics well. Give it a try if “Ghost in the Shell-meets-Tactical-Rainbow Six-esq Shooter” (that’s my best attempt at a comparison for it :P) soundslike your thing.
07/07/2009 at 11:17 Doctor Doc says:
It’s like a pretty fun Counter-Strike mixed up with Dystopia and some impressive graphics thrown into the mix.
It’s good but I don’t like the CS style the-more-stacked-team-get-all-the-good-guns that they just had to use. It makes unfair teams horrible boring and it’s a problem on almost every server you’ll join.
07/07/2009 at 12:21 Lilliput King says:
I don’t really get the comparisons to Dystopia that are being drawn.
Apart from the visual style, Dystopia is a very different game. The focus on AOE weapons (grenade launcher, missile launcher, large numbers of grenades, those faaaarkin EMP guns) makes it a far more spammy affair, and makes the combat a drag. Fortunately there is the decking side of things that keeps the game interesting.
07/07/2009 at 12:26 Shoo says:
I hadn’t even heard of Neotokyo until the day before release when an acquaintance mentioned there was a mod coming out which blended the setting of GitS (which I enjoyed tremendously) with a team based FPS. So on the day of the release, I jumped into the first public server I could find and discovered that the setting was brilliant, it was just what I wanted from a cyberpunk multiplayer shooter. But the gameplay felt very sluggish and slow, and most of the time we’d end up rushing individually to get the ghost, only to be brutally shot down. Confusion was all around and our team ended up in such a disarray that we were shooting friendlies more often than enemies. I tried to organize things a bit by talking to the team, but I found that only 2 out of 12 people on our team were using voice chat.
I came to the realization that this wasn’t going to work and persuaded some friends to download the mod. Once I had gathered five of us on the same team and the same squad, the gameplay changed drastically. It turned from a slow paced, chaotic mess into a damn solid tactical team-shooter. We learned to appreciate the (previously agonizing) slow pace before initial contact as it gave us time for planning our assault; who would flank, which route is the enemy team taking, do we throw a smoke nade to cover our recon capping the ghost, which escape route would we take etc. The tactical options that you have are pretty astounding and made Counter-Strike seem quite in-flexible in comparison.
It’s not a shocker that being part of a well organized team makes a team based shooter more enjoyable, but NT takes it one step further and makes it a vital point. The team aspect is built so deeply into the core of the game that it simply doesn’t work well without it.
Conclusion: Playing NT with players who won’t communicate and playing it with friends is like night and day. So if you’re having a hard time enjoying the game, round up some friends or try finding players who are willing to use the voice chat and I can pretty much guarantee that the game becomes tenfolds more fun.
07/07/2009 at 13:18 MarvintheParanoidAndroid says:
@DK: Neotokyo has bunnyhopping, wallstrafing and wigglewalking. No idea if it’s just because the devs couldn’t be bothered to patch it out, but it’s definitely there.
But yeah, Crane hit the nail on the head really – wonderful artwork, but not a great game. The weapons are pretty unsatisfying to use and the sound effects are just awful. I’m still withholding judgement to some extent as I’d like to try it in a slightly more organised manner than just on public servers.
Also it’s slow. So, so slow.
07/07/2009 at 16:08 DK says:
“Neotokyo has bunnyhopping, wallstrafing and wigglewalking.”
Well, in the bin with it then. That stuff is a disgrace and shouldn’t be in any released product post 1995.
07/07/2009 at 16:44 Oddtwang says:
Not played the mod (yet – may never do given that I never really liked the round-based play of CS); however, the soundtrack is utterly incredible – well worth paying a few quid for the HQ MP3s :)
07/07/2009 at 18:17 postmanX3 says:
@ S:
Don’t misunderstand me, it was a good mod. It’s just that I was expecting a new experience, something I’d never played before. Instead, I get Counter-Strike with pretty graphics.
It’s just too generic. Nothing that’s never been done before. Then again, perhaps my expectations for new ideas is biased due to other fantastic mods like Dystopia and Eternal Silence.
@ DK:
Picky, picky, picky. Heh.
07/07/2009 at 19:22 Flobulon says:
Had a great time playing it with dartt and the others over the weekend on the RPS community server; I have to say it can seem a little slow-burning when you first start playing, takes some time to get used to.
07/07/2009 at 19:34 Maj says:
Oh, I forgot about the bunnyhopping. There’s no stamina gauge for that, meaning you can do it indefinitely. Dystopia’s wallrunning is a complete non-issue in comparison. I was able to bunny hop EVERYWHERE.
07/07/2009 at 20:26 Abs says:
I’ve played a few games and i’m liking it – as long as voice comms are used.
And pick up the damn mannequin! Or ghost.
Don’t worry! It won’t bite…
07/07/2009 at 23:30 Al3xand3r says:
Can the fans of other mods not have these kneejerk reactions? Nobody put down your idols, this is Neotokyo’s time to shine, they just had their first major release for fuck’s sake (their UT2004-based alpha is hardly the same mod, a few cosmetic models – out of a vast amount – are all that remains from that). Can’t you let them enjoy that much without pimping other mods that have been in the news multiple times, and probably will be again when/if they get something new out? We all know of Dystopia and Insurgency. At least, those into such projects know of them.
It’s all the work of similarly hard working individuals that deserve an equal opportunity, it’s all provided for free just as any other mod is, and there’s no damn reason to go all my mod is bigger than your mod or whatever. Communities based on a single item, like the Source Engine, should work together, not against each other. You’re all one community even if you don’t realise that.
Christ, this is one reason I gave up on the fansites I used to work for and run for myself, people are too damn bitchy about FREE things they should embrace and applaud, whether they happen to personally enjoy them or not.
As for the mod itself, no, it’s no more Counter-Strike with vision modes than you can call Dystopia merely UT2004 Assault with implants. Ridiculous accusations on all accounts, that put down the labor of others with a few words that don’t really matter as they don’t describe anything but the bare basics, not even hinting at the actual core gameplay dynamics to be found within.
The vision modes and the Capture the Ghost mode do make the gameplay and the overall pace vastly different to pretty much anything else I’ve played, and I’ve played a lot the past many years. It’s a fresh experience, as fresh as you can be with a tactical first person shooter. It’s not yet another SWAT or yet another Rainbow Six or yet another anything.
Anyway. At first I was completely lost, getting shot before I caught a glimpse of the enemy. Now I’ve started understanding the mechanics, it’s a very cool experience with a lot of hidden depth and room for teamwork. I love the different rock-paper-scissors mechanics between the weapons, the cloaking, the classes and the vision modes they have, and what you’re actually doing to avoid being a sitting duck (or to actually be an invisible sitting duck). I like the realism touches with the slow pace, the way the guns and clips work, etc. Yeah, you get better guns in time, but you get them faster than in Counter-Strike even if you’re in the losing team, and it only takes a few shots to kill someone so you can do well even with the starting weapons. Also, after you acquire them, you can use them for the duration of the match, so doing bad for a while won’t deplete your cash or anything like in CS. You have the ability to perform well at all times, it’s all up to your TEAM.
It’s a lot better than even I expected, having followed the project through times of joy and times of trouble. This doesn’t show a bias, as I said I used to run certain websites, so I’ve followed closely pretty much every Source project out there, big or small.
It’s also beautiful, the map with the yellow chopper on the rooftop is jaw dropping, and the others aren’t far behind. A very solid first release, and I can’t wait to get more.
This page should help some of you get started. If you don’t want a no-respawns game, don’t try it just to bitch about it in the comments, as if one has to cater to your particular tastes just to be applauded for the hard work of several years. If you haven’t tried it extensively enough to understand it, don’t call it CS. It’s not.
http://www.neotokyohq.com/neotokyo_noob_hints.html
End of rant.
08/07/2009 at 05:23 jbs87 says:
The best thing to come out of this mod is the soundtrack. Its brilliant, atmospheric and haunting. Odd that with such a kickass soundtrack, the game is so silent. Link for sample tracks
http://forum.neotokyohq.com/nt_music_player.html
08/07/2009 at 08:19 madhaha says:
I truly hated the first 30mins of this. I deleted the install file out of spite. Sure it has beautiful artwork, I huffed, but this game is broken broken broken! I unload whole magazines at people and they stay standing and then I have to sit out for the next 5 minutes when they pistol me in the toe. The altfires don’t work! Why on earth is the team balancer turned off by default? Why do the models look different enough to make it impossible to work out what class people are while samey enough to have my teamates kill me every other second? How on earth am I supposed to learn the classes if half the time I don’t get access to all the weapons? Where’s my detpack?
But then the gameplay started to unfold and it’s slowly starting to make sense. I won’t go too much into the specifics but NT could really have benefited from including the manual with the install, having a working forum or any of the other ways of learning it’s intricacies. It’s incredibly satisfying when you start to understand how it works and what you’re doing wrong but it’s not obvious. At this time I still don’t know enough about the weapons to make an educated choice. I know the statistics are on the weapon selection screen but half of them are clipped off. As are the player numbers and I’ve no way of knowing who is on which team without joining. Little problems that all add up to a horribly frustrating start but the refinement in the gameplay keeps me loading the damn thing back up and having another go.
08/07/2009 at 15:51 Dracko says:
Al3xand3r: Thanks. This thread was in need of a voice of reason.
09/07/2009 at 16:03 unique_identifier says:
this is interesting. played for about an hour or so… initially very, very confusing, especially with the claustrophobic landmark-less indoor maps, and the changing spawn points.
as commented above, it would be nice if the aim and lean controls were more fluid. the sights need to come up as soon as you touch right mouse, not when you release the button.
it might grow on me though. the ghost-walkhack mechanic is refreshingly new. the music is lovely. and the programmer nonsense in the lower left hand corner before each round starts is a cute touch. i need to try playing this with my friends, with voice.
12/07/2009 at 02:07 Daniel says:
This game is not horrible. It needs some work. It’s a rather tactical FPS overall, using a lean system (allowing you to pop yourself and your gun out from a corner), no inherent crosshair system (requiring you to by default right click to bring up a crosshair, slowing your speed). You can fire from the hip though, and in tight quarters it’s proven very effective for me. The lean system needs a decent bit of work.
Overview:
The game breaks down into a three class system, each in varying size from the smallest and most mobile, to the biggest and least mobile. Per round, each play gets one life. The objective of the round is to kill all enemy players, or capture the ghost. It’s like a tug of war in a way. Some weapons have a secondary function, though at this point and time have proven rather useless for me (a good start though, honestly.)
Recon
Recons are fast, having an unlimited amount of sprint and a super jump which when done right can zoom you around quite fast; recon also has a pretty strong cloak time of 13 seconds and a quick recharge. Their night vision is rather useless to me (I don’t play recon though), and their weapons are rather weak. They get a few sniper rifles that other classes can’t get, and some silenced SMG’s, a remotely activated det-pack with a HUGE blast radius, and a pistol with a reasonably high rate of fire. The class relies on it’s high mobility and fast cloak recharge for survival.
Assault
The Assault class has the broadest range of weaponry. They get a HE grenade, semi auto shotgun, the most potent sniper rifle in the game, and a pistol that can be semi/auto with a high rate of fire. The have a sprint ability that depletes at a decent rate, and regenerates quickly enough. They have a cloak time of 8 seconds, with a fairly slow recharge time. They can take some damage, they’re an all around good class. Their special vision is motion sensing, which makes them better at dealing with cloaked threats, but useless against targets that are not moving.
Support
The support class has no sprint,nor a cloak function, 2 smoke grenades (they can see through with their thermals) but they can eat some lead now. They’re slow, large, and have access to the exclusive machine gun which is lethal as hell at medium to close range in the right hands, along with a .45 revolver. This is my class of choice, their vision being the best overall; it cannot however detect cloaked entities.
Pro’s
Beautiful game, with a HDR that isn’t over done. Very customized style
Tactical game play requiring a decent amount of teamwork and strategic understanding.
Each class has it’s own diverse applications and strengths.
Maps very greatly and over all are done very well, with no side having any huge advantage from the start. It mostly plays out with skill.
Each of the 3 classes have 3 different skins to choose from.
Con’s
The lean system needs fine tuning, it’s a little too blocky, and when a play is inside or too close to you, you can’t lean. It could use a tweak and give another 5-10 degree of lean in my opinion. Over all it does work though, you just have to get used to it.
High learning curve for people who have never played tactical FPS games, which end up with 3-5 minute wait times per death depending on the server.
The special function of certain weapons is almost useless. The pump shotgun has a slug feature, but you can only have one slug in the shotty at a time, and it does crap damage in my experience. This function needs work but has good potential.
Strafing people have nearly as much accuracy as immobile crouched people; this is totally bullshit. It may just be a misunderstanding in my brief time playing, but it feels this way so far.
Overall
Graphics: 8/10
Sound: 8/10
Diversity: 6.5/10
Performance: 7.5-8/10
Gameplay: 7.5/10
14/07/2009 at 17:41 seras says:
been playing it for 3 days and really loving it. I’ve always been a huge fan of tactical shooters(played TacOps for 8 years) and GITS so this was naturally right up my alley.
the production value and design is very impressive, especially for an indy mod. The gameplay does take getting used to …figuring out the flow, teamplay, ballistic mechanics.
Obviously ppl that don’t like the genre will hate this, it’s not for the twitchy quake folk….but anyone that appreciates tactical shooters really owes it to themselves to bite the bullet on the learning curve and give this game a real chance….the more you play the more you’ll realize there’s actually quite a bit of finesse going into it.
16/07/2009 at 15:41 KindredPhantom says:
YawnTokyo.
Needs respawns as CS style did and you wait out the round is tad tedious.
20/07/2009 at 17:43 Crispy says:
Here’s my review: http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106902&view=findpost&p=1715859
Sorry I’m too lazy to reformat it for the comments here but I suspect I’d hit the word limit in any case. It’s worth reading the entire thread for arguments on both sides of the fence.
21/07/2009 at 23:47 PoopParapoo says:
Honestly, comparing this to Counter-Strike is not that clever. Counter Strike has quite a different scenario- they just similar aspects. They both have a a wait-till-you-die round. Amazing point. Hell, lets make it Battlefield 2 style, so whenever you die, you spawn right back, and who the hell cares that you just died right?
Oh damn, CS and NT both have guns. The difference is that NT uses a unique type of “ironsights” (that are similar to Farcry’s). CS Uses a regular crosshair in the middle of the screen. And oh yeah, they both have grenades (OH SHIT).
Overall, its their first release and it’s damn good. The learning curve is a little high (as you can see from people commenting here) but after you reach the top (in 1-2 days), you should be pretty good.
22/07/2009 at 07:06 FcukFace says:
This game is obviously not made for the learning-impaired and/or autistic
22/07/2009 at 09:03 hooray says:
it should be called weeaboo counterstrike. style does not make up for shit gameplay.
23/07/2009 at 05:41 Derpa says:
Every time I see someone mention “CS” in their comment makes me wonder why they are stealing our oxygen.
26/07/2009 at 10:12 Crispy says:
It’s more like Hostile Intent than Counter-Strike, but most people have probably never heard of the former.
29/07/2009 at 19:15 Mjolk says:
My favorite FPS ever. The reason I call it my favorite fps is because I get bored of most fps games after an hour or two of playing, but this.. I can play it for many many hours in a row and it just doesn’t get boring.
I love that it’s based on teamplay and tactics.
16/08/2009 at 07:07 Chips says:
I just tried this game and I didn’t like it mostly due to the community. They are very rude and began tking and harrassing me when I said I came from Dystopia. I’d like to try this mod but this has happened on many servers. Also why is it that everyone is so defensive about this mod? Any site i go to where someone critiques it they go into rage.