It’s a story I’ve been following since, in the aftermath of raising an eyebrow at the forty-quid British Direct-Download sales price of Cyanide’s Blood Bowl, a gentleman mailed me and pointed me in the direction of sites which just sell the serial code for Blood Bowl. Sites like G2Play and Online Key Store, charging fifteen euros and twenty dollars respectively. They’ve both been operating for well over a year, doing it for a variety of games, but I suspect the unusual combination of factors (price difference, smaller size of audience) has given it greater prominence. Cyanide are strongly objecting. LewieP from Savygamer has been doing the heavy lifting on this one, so it’s worth going and reading his hard work, but here’s the situation as I see it…
The sites are buying codes in cheaper territories and selling them in more expensive ones. The comment threads on RPS have often noted the difference between US, European and UK prices – 50 Dollars, 40 Quid and 50 Euros respectively for Blood Bowl – but in other countries with lower earnings, the price of games are often put lower, both in an attempt to match the available cash and as a counter-effect to piracy. So for, say, Starcraft codes for sale, they may buy a load of boxes, rip out the codes, and sell to Westerners.
Clearly, Cyanide aren’t too pleased with seeing this happening. On the forum a spokesperson has said that all keys sold by these websites will be blacklisted and become unusable. To quote a little from the (not in the responders’ native language, it must be stressed) response to LewieP:
“Concerning the serials, we are checking how the website could have the serial.
If they stolen the keys it’s illegal. Furthermore G2play is not a partner so they are not authorized to sell the game.”
Which does cut to the heart of the matter in this case. While apparently there’s boxed copies in parts of Europe, you’d presume that Focus or Cyanide would be aware if they’re selling Blood Bowl considerably cheaper in any territory. Well, you would… but businesses are many legged beasts, and I wouldn’t bet that there isn’t a standard pricing for different countries which they didn’t foresee this happening with. The other alternative would be that the companies have a key-gen for the game and are selling those… except, from my cursory research, I haven’t seen a cracked version of Blood Bowl around and they’ve been in business long enough to make me suspect they’d have be squashed if it was that openly illegal. Certainly the companies in question defend themselves. When asked about the matter on OnlineKeySupport, a spokesperson says…
“We buy keys cheap from Asian countries so they cannot be blacklisted, this is a legitimate company not some cowboy illegal operation”
So… what now? Really, the legalities are beyond me to say to certain, and cut to the heart of both what we’re actually buying when buying a modern game and the nature of the global economy. And, as such, they’re beyond me as a layperson to the law. Can you really object to someone buying a game on holiday and then playing it when they get home? Because, functionally speaking, it’s the same thing as this – just made possible by the internet. Equally, to get this code to work you need a copy of the client, which you could only get via a friend burning it for you or by torrenting the client. But is it a crime to torrent a piece of software you can’t access unless you have a purchased code? And yes, it’s taking advantage of the difference in prices… but surely if it’s okay for companies to send work offshore to maximise their profits, it’s acceptable for a consumer to do likewise? As I said earlier, I honestly don’t know. It clearly feels well into the grey area, but that could mean many things.
I have no idea which way this one will go long-term, if this sort of activity flourishes. There’s two responses, as far as I can see – one which is draconian and will alienate a lot of fans (the blacklisting – even if it’s not illegal, it’s almost certainly against the EULA) and the other which is an incredibly hard line (you have one set price worldwide which is too high for the aforementioned lower-earning territories). With Blood Bowl, if I were Cyanide and a really hard-headed businessman, I suspect I’d go for the latter. Releasing at the higher price point seems to be an attempt to maximise earnings before its real launch later in the year, where I’m sure that it’ll appear as something approaching the normal. As such, you can wait for your money from those territories until later.
Well, there’s a third response: if they know the codes are legit let it go, knowing that they are getting some money, and that banning people will only reduce the size of your community, so reducing the chance of a game’s success long term.
We’ll see how this one goes.
****
Statement of Possible Conflict of Interest: I’ve previously worked for Cyanide, translating their earlier Chaos League. I was approached to do the same on Blood Bowl, to which I expressed interest but said wouldn’t do it for the same fee. Never heard back. So I could be biased positively or negatively, depending.
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Media Barons ? lmao
I asked on the Steam forums and this is the reply I got from BurtonJ:
“We do not permit the selling of CD Keys.
The sites in question are unauthorized resellers and you should purchase at your own risk.
When purchasing retail copies of the game, make sure it includes the box, cd key, etc.”
Hope that helps clearing things out.
@Abel Beck
Thanks man. That’s a hot tip!
I’ve been thinking, would anyone be interested in a service that for a small fee (per transaction) offered to give you access to digital distribution deals from all over the globe?
Say a game costs £30 on steam in the UK, and the equivalent of £20 in the USA. Pay me £21, and I will gift you it from the USA. I’d keep a database of all the games + prices, you say what country you are from, I’ll tell you which games are cheaper for you to buy via me.
Being from a region with tons of region restricted games yes, i would love that kind of service LewieP.
I just feel rather insecure making transactions with regular people instead of an actual company.
Some news:
Hello mate,
recently we have aquired Blood Bowl keys from a supplier who showed up to get them in unlegitimate way.
We had unfortunatley no idea about this since the price offered to us was notcheap and the profit margin for us on these transactions is very low.
We may offer you 3 possible solutions for this issue:
1. Eiether we refund your payment via PayPal
2. We give you any other game in similar value
3. We will recieve another pack of Blood Bowl keys from verified supplier today or tomorrow (48 hours max. from now). We cam then replace you your current key ofcourse.
Best
David
G2PLAY.net Team
@LewieP: Definitely, as long as there’s no risk (Would this violate Steam’s terms of use? I’m not sure what it says about gifting. )
I don’t think many people would be willing to risk getting their Steam account banned because of an attempt to save a few dollars, but if you can confirm that it’s safe, it could be a big hit. ;)
Interesting ! Hopefully this will clear things up and make everyone happy.
Not gonna happen. GW told Relic to make their own interpretation of the universe, rather than following the tabletop game’s rules. No matter how well Bloodbowl does, the chances of seeing them, or anyone else, making a PC version of the WH/40k tabletop game are somewhere around zero. GW isn’t about to risk their main cash cows.
At the same time GW told the makers of Bloodbowl to follow the rules exactly, so who’s to say. Are you saying they don’t want to produce a game based on the rules for fear that they’d stop selling the table top version? I don’t think anyone is going to give up tabletop gaming for a computer game, it just isn’t the same. But they could get new customers who enjoy the computer game into tabletop gaming.
Personally I really want to get into Warhammer 40K tabletop gaming but it’s just so expensive and I don’t have any friends . . . seriously since I got married no friends :P the few I do have don’t play. I’ve tried to get my wife to play but she doesn’t seem interested. (She does play DoD, TF2, and Left4Dead MORE than me)
Maybe if they did a bare bones free version to hook people onto the tabletop. Like a core only (yet balanced) version that doesn’t add some of the later Codex and WD stuff. Kind of a gateway drug, if you will.
I’m all for an exchange of code with equitable pricing worldwide and would help however I can here in the uS of A. Amazing there isn’t something set up already… I kind of think Valve would catch on and start banning some accounts before too long though, especially with the whole Thailand Orange Box key thing.
These codes aren’t being tracked, and aren’t going to be region specific. Codes that are region specific are sold on these sites as the region they are for. Companies can’t track third party retailers sales of excess copies, and these sites buy the excess and then sell it for a profit. So essentially, the publisher/developer has no idea what codes are bought from these sites, unless said copies are stolen and reported so.
The fact that they’re retroactively disabling accounts does suggest that it is one batch that they know shouldn’t be in use.
@GuyIncognito: The illegal keys are usually obtained by means of stolen credit card details. Not to mention that these websites are a major target for hackers. This way, a shop somtimes might sell the same key several times.
Have a look at (a href=”http://steamunpowered.eu/page.php?al=altshops”>http://steamunpowered.eu/page.php?al=altshops for a list of similar shops and user feedback.
@Rob S I am inclined to agree with you there.
G2Play certainly appear open and helpful which is a + in the ‘are they honest’ stakes. I wussed out of acquiring a key to the game last night having followed all of the discussion on here. I considered reaching for my wallet and paying the ridiculous 40quid and then thought ‘No’. If I could pirate the game and send the dev’s 20 quid in the post I’d feel happier than buying it officially. They definitely need to be rewarded but I don’t see why I should be gouged for doing so.
GW have probably had somewhere between 500-1000 pounds worth of my money over the years, what with the 40quid boxes, additional manuals, codexes, armys, stand alone models, brushes, cans, paints, washes…. the list goes on.
“If (a) PC prices are the same as here (currency conversion aside) – then I can’t see how the cheaper game price in those countries work – if they can afford a PC they can afford the game”
My in-laws live in Malaysia, where people have approximately a fifth of the buying power of someone from the UK/Ireland. Hardware prices are slightly cheaper, but the fact is that people simply buy lower-specced machines compared to Europe or the US.
When I originally started visiting there 10 years ago, there was a huge market in pirated DVDs and games, simply because the cost was way out of whack with people’s incomes; taking average salaries, etc, in account, DVDs were the equivalent of £60. There’s been a large crackdown by the government there, at least on the blatant selling from stalls in shopping malls, but the quid-pro-quo was that distributers lower their prices considerably. Obviously you can still get pirated stuff, as my nephew has a ton of games for his PS2, none of which are original (and yes, like a good uncle, I’ve bought him original PC games and tried to show him the light… managed to get him to play a bit of Dungeon Siege anyway).
P.
G2Play refunded me for the key, so I doubt they’re hackers/credit card thieves etc.
Interestingly, the serials are blocked for multiplayer but still work fine for single player, so the end result of their attempt to protect their price gouging is that we now have the game, for free in my case, with an optional £40 multiplayer component. Bit of a facepalm moment there I think.
Both sites – g2play and onlinekeystore are owned by the same guy – Viktor Wanli, a czech guy wanted by police in Czech Republik, who lives now in northern part of Poland. Do a google search for viktor wanli or g2play, you will find a lot of interesting stuff. He is a wanted criminal, will do whatever it takes for money
Sorry we reached this article a bit late.
Blood Bowl keys on G2PLAY were supplied by diffirent suppliers. One of the suppliers aquired them in unlegitimate way (we can only speculate how) and these keys were getting banned by the publisher.
As i speak for G2PLAY.net now i can confirm the case and that all customers which were supplied by keys from this supplier were offered a refund and most of them are refunded already.
G2PLAY did not make its business based on stolen / illegal keys etc. As spoken above stores like G2PLAY.net make their business thanks to the publishers policies aimed to maximize their own profits by distributing the same product with big price differences around the globe.
We just happen to have the right contacts in the right countries which can be also anyone from you guys and can simply open his sotre on similar basis.
If publishers want to stop shops like G2PLAY.net the simpliest way is to effectivley control their own distribution model and network.
If a distributor offers us cheap price we will continue to sell for cheap because we simply do not have such huge operational costs like retail chains, niether we do have big demands on high profits like big internet stores are under the pressure of their management and shareholders.
As a good example of effective distribution control i can show Blizzard. Look all over the internet and try to find WoW game cards / wow tbc etc. for halfprice than retail… its almost impossible. Why?
But mainly i wanted to address the Blood Bowl issue.
I just published an official response from G2play too, clears things up a bit.
Viktor Wanli, why g2play.net is registered under fake name, and the “Singapore” company that you claim that runes the store now, doest exist at all ? Why you ask your European customers to deposit money into an account open in Slovakia under your name ? How comes that account is not opened under your “Singapore” company ? That’s what matters most of all.
Viktor Wanli, why you shut down your polish company ? Forgot to pay the VAT:
http://dweurope.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=53&lang=en
I think this just goes to show you that buying keys from a website like G2Play.net or otherwise is taking a big risk that A) your credit card may be stolen or b) you may be buying a stolen product or buying a legal product but in an illegal way. If half of what IBrez is saing is correct I wouldn’t even go to the website for fear of a virus much less buy something from them ;P
Serondal: I admit, there was no way I was paying with my credit-card, so used the Paypal option instead.
KG
Ok, let me show you some more :
http://wwwinfo.mfcr.cz/cgi-bin/ares/darv_or.cgi?ico=25379437&jazyk=en&xml=1
Check what’s written under Viktor Wanli name and use translate.google.com to translate it in english. Basically, the Czech state got ahold of all Viktor Wanli shares in all czech registered companies, until he will be able to pay his debts.
Now, check this blog entry, someone describes his interactions with g2play and his owner:
http://clearpixels.net/2009/01/hot-deal-left-4-dead-less-than-13/
And the so called “unlegitimate supplier” fantasy is a sloppy method to hide the fact they bought those keys using fake credit cards. And the onlinekeystore is his site as well.
He is also very active in the country where he is living now :
http://allegro.pl/sklep/10858820_moonqq_games_shop
On his previous “site engine” he asked European customers to send money to his own account:
Hello:
Bank transfer details:
Bank account number (IBAN): SK1411110000001052610008
Bank account currency: EUR
SWIFT Code: UNCRSKBX
Bank name: UniCredit Bank Slovakia a.s.
Bank address:
Šancová 1/A
813 33 Bratislava, Slovakia
Account holder name: Viktor Wanli
He has multiple accounts open under his name, Viktor Wanli, in Poland. Bank accounts can be found here:
http://allegro.pl/item682852699_counter_strike_1_6_8bonusow_cs_steam_key_i_w_10m.html
Regarding the legality of purchasing the CD Keys from this companies, AFAIK what you buy when you buy a game is a “Right to Use”, a limited right to use the software that’s included in the box or file that you just downloaded. This right of use is independent of the CD Key as far as I understand it, the CD Key being a means of validation but not the actual usage right clearence. The difference being, you can only buy usage rights through the publisher (who owns such rights) or an authorized dealer (authorized by the owner of such rights). I understand it’s up to the terms of the EULA if you can re-sell such rights or not, and how.
If I’m correct, just selling a CD Key equals to selling the old Lucas Arts carton “spinners” used for copy protection, but not the actual Usage Licence. If I’m correct then, this is just another method of piracy.
With regards to the regional price differences, for example a watermelon in my country would cost 1 dollar, in Japan I could sell it for 6, so regional pricing is not such a novelty since the beginning of commerce. The price for a given item is determined by offer/demand and offer/demand only, with no actual relation whatsoever to the actual production cost.
And outsourcing is a complex thing to be against, if you could buy china-made items at china prices, would there be enough incentive for having those items developed and produced in the first place?
The real question here is, is Blood Bowl any good? Are we gonna get a Wot I think? Also is it moddable ? It be very cool if someone modded Blood Bowl into a warhammer 40K game that uses the same turn based/RTS type game play and edited the rules to map Warhammer 40K or Warhammer Fantasy for that matter.
Good? To me it’s better than fantastic, if you don’t mind paying for beta and having to utilize one of the most deplorable interfaces creatable. So far, I feel I’ve underpaid for my current license considering the amount of joy it has brought to my life so far and I will rectify that when the game comes out in box form, hopefully with something I can collect. I’ll even pay more for that hunk of stuff to put on my shelf as I usually do. For more thoughts on the game, and passion it can inspire, feel free to check out the thread that’s going on in the forum. This is a game that can grab you quite strongly and the quality of what is there is fantastic.
The day you can move a watermelon across an already established infrastructure with no loss whatsoever in the transfer and with neither party of the grower or the purchaser having to assume the cost to transport the watermelon is the day a watermelon stops costing 1 dollar in one country and 6 in another.
At least I feel that’s how it should be. I think the key is to understand it is a perfectly replicable environment with the sole cost, now, being able to be incurred by developers and creators. The balance is that those deciding the cost of a good must be fair about pricing or the market WILL balance itself somewhere between the extremes of 0 dollar transactions (piracy) and MSRP.